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Posted: 3/3/2023 5:55:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly MILs are life. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tell me you're a fudd without telling me you're a fudd :) Exactly MILs are life. QFT |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 5:55:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, the wind isnt always blowing here... And when it is, I can quickly estimate my wind holds :) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You live in ID. Can you honestly say you’ve ever been shooting and the wind wasn’t involved? Yes, the wind isnt always blowing here... And when it is, I can quickly estimate my wind holds :) Muh coreolis effect |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 5:56:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That big far. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: October. Keystone in June though, that goes to 800 That big far. We could both just fire our guns in the air |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 5:56:43 PM EDT
[#4]
2 Ackbars right and send it
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Posted: 3/3/2023 5:57:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Bullets spin which negates the Marxist radians
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Posted: 3/3/2023 5:57:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Dialing and holdovers are big dumb.
Accuracy by volume and walk it in. I guess OP is a poor and has to make every shot count. 
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Posted: 3/3/2023 5:58:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dialing and holdovers are big dumb. Accuracy by volume and walk it in. I guess OP is a poor and has to make every shot count. Based |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 5:58:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Muh coreolis effect Nuh uh, I spin the bullet the other way to counter act it |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 5:58:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Based Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Dialing and holdovers are big dumb. Accuracy by volume and walk it in. I guess OP is a poor and has to make every shot count. Based 
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Posted: 3/3/2023 5:59:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can't get er done with a duplex and zoom ranging Y'aint nary a rifleman! This. I mean, if it was 1968, but still this. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:00:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mils are metric Metric is gay and European Therfore mils are gay and European American mils, Scandinavian mils and Russian mils are all different. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:00:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mils are better, however all my stuff is MOA because its what I know. You just have to remember that it is easy to build in 5% error when doing math in your head. What math is there to do? If you are doing math you are doing it wrong. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:01:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sir please I am the most serious and technical poster here. My scientific claims survive peer review constantly That could just mean you need better peers. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:02:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: American mils, Scandinavian mils and Russian mils are all different. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Mils are metric Metric is gay and European Therfore mils are gay and European American mils, Scandinavian mils and Russian mils are all different. That's because the Russian mils are based off arshins and not meters. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:03:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mils are metric Metric is gay and European Therfore mils are gay and European You started off wrong but everything else you said justified your position. So ....I agree |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:03:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What math is there to do? If you are doing math you are doing it wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Mils are better, however all my stuff is MOA because its what I know. You just have to remember that it is easy to build in 5% error when doing math in your head. What math is there to do? If you are doing math you are doing it wrong. Doing math is not very tactical. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:03:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Which branch of the military shoot the furthest in basic?
Which do they use, MIL or MOA? Case closed. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:04:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which branch of the military shoot the furthest in basic? Which do they use, MIL or MOA? Case closed. Well.... who is it and what do they use? Is it Space Force? Space is pretty far. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:06:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's because the Russian mils are based off arshins and not meters. Russia rounded down. Scandinavia rounded up, but has an odd back azimuth. We rounded up further until it was even. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:06:11 PM EDT
[#20]
some men prefer to date other men and there's nothing wrong with that just like there's nothing wrong with preferring moa
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:06:59 PM EDT
[#21]
As far as I’m concerned it’s the same as the Imperial/Metric argument.
 Mars Flyer Meme by FredMan, on Flickr
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:07:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Irrelevent until wind is involved and youre on the clock... Thats why MILs is better Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ummm… you know this is a whiskers shit posting thread. What is or isn’t is doesn’t matter. Honestly a MOA tremor would work just as well. Ranging with the reticle is some 1970’s boomer shit. With a laser range finder and a ballistic calculator the units are pretty irrelevant. Irrelevent until wind is involved and youre on the clock... Thats why MILs is better What about wind specifically makes mils better? I'm of the opinion as long as the reticle matches the clicks, it doesn't really matter. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:08:02 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two kinds of nations on this Earth. Those that use Metric, and those that have put a man on the moon. Except all engineers and physicists use metric 
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:09:27 PM EDT
[#24]
MOA is much easier to calculate in your head.
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:09:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which branch of the military shoot the furthest in basic? Which do they use, MIL or MOA? Case closed. In basic we shot to 500 meters... it wasnt MILs or MOA on the m16a2... it was some weird elevation twist with distance... then when the ACOG was allowed for qual, thats a BDC... |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:10:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doing math is not very tactical. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Mils are better, however all my stuff is MOA because its what I know. You just have to remember that it is easy to build in 5% error when doing math in your head. What math is there to do? If you are doing math you are doing it wrong. Doing math is not very tactical. Yeah that's not tactical that's gay |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:10:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Based I alternate between tracers and hollow points that have a zippo flint inserted. Should I use mils or moa? |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:10:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which branch of the military shoot the furthest in basic? Which do they use, MIL or MOA? Case closed. The military bought 416s their opinion is to be discarded |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:11:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah that's not tactical that's gay Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Mils are better, however all my stuff is MOA because its what I know. You just have to remember that it is easy to build in 5% error when doing math in your head. What math is there to do? If you are doing math you are doing it wrong. Doing math is not very tactical. Yeah that's not tactical that's gay Completely opposite of tactical, really. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:11:46 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about wind specifically makes mils better? I'm of the opinion as long as the reticle matches the clicks, it doesn't really matter. You can get the speed of your gun (example of 5 MPH), and when the wind is that speed, your amount of hold is similar to the yard line... so a 5 MPH wind at 500 yards is .5 MILs... 300 yards at 5 MPH is .3 MILs... 10 MPH wind at 600 yards is 1.2 MILs |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:12:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I alternate between tracers and hollow points that have a zippo flint inserted. Should I use mils or moa? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Based I alternate between tracers and hollow points that have a zippo flint inserted. Should I use mils or moa? Mils for tracers and moa for hollow points. For reasons. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:12:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The military bought 416s their opinion is to be discarded Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Which branch of the military shoot the furthest in basic? Which do they use, MIL or MOA? Case closed. The military bought 416s their opinion is to be discarded muh carrier tilt tho |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:14:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Why are sub minute measurements in fractions and not seconds?
Why aren't groups measured in mils? Why do I need a 20 minute rail, an optic with 80 minutes of adjustment, but a reticle in mils? Why are the click values on M16/M4 sight drums in minute and half minute values when the military uses mils? So many questions... |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:15:18 PM EDT
[#34]
You don’t need to be shooting that far if you’re having to male those kind of adjustments.
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:15:27 PM EDT
[#35]
My high end scopes are all Milrad, so I do Mils.
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:15:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I alternate between tracers and hollow points that have a zippo flint inserted. Should I use mils or moa? Armson OEG with a magnifier in front of it toward the muzzle end. If no forward rail , Just turn the OEG around backwards and dial 2.25 MOA up for the henway atmospheric collusion. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:16:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Completely opposite of tactical, really. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Mils are better, however all my stuff is MOA because its what I know. You just have to remember that it is easy to build in 5% error when doing math in your head. What math is there to do? If you are doing math you are doing it wrong. Doing math is not very tactical. Yeah that's not tactical that's gay Completely opposite of tactical, really. Tactical is dynamic efficiency |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:38:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can get the speed of your gun (example of 5 MPH), and when the wind is that speed, your amount of hold is similar to the yard line... so a 5 MPH wind at 500 yards is .5 MILs... 300 yards at 5 MPH is .3 MILs... 10 MPH wind at 600 yards is 1.2 MILs Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What about wind specifically makes mils better? I'm of the opinion as long as the reticle matches the clicks, it doesn't really matter. You can get the speed of your gun (example of 5 MPH), and when the wind is that speed, your amount of hold is similar to the yard line... so a 5 MPH wind at 500 yards is .5 MILs... 300 yards at 5 MPH is .3 MILs... 10 MPH wind at 600 yards is 1.2 MILs The gun number is just an approximation and doesn’t scale accurately, .3 at 300 doesn’t translate to 1.2 at 1200 and those nice round numbers are only applicable at one wind speed. What do you do when the wind goes from 5 to 8 mph? Or you miss with your 5mph wind call and have to shoot a different target at a different distance? That’s why I like the tremor, as long as you are shooting the same load the wind dots never change. Once I know the dots are 4mph I can shoot at any distance (with less than 10 mills of drop) in any wind speed, very quickly. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:42:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell me you're a fudd without telling me you're a fudd :) MOA is easy to use on the fly. Ranging and fast holdovers are simple. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:43:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember the good old days of MOA dials and MIL dot reticles... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/17973/math_jpg-2732592.JPG Ah, the good old days. Where your finest elevation adjustment in a L&S M3 Ultra was 1 moa and windage was .5 moa. (IIRCC) Zero was 200m with a wind call. Dope was gathered every 100m and scope mechanical accuracy didn’t matter because there were no ballistic computers. M24’s were king and some sniper schools still had you use the iron sights to shoot out to 600m Camp Perry style with a bicep cuff sling and a shooting glove. No sand socks allowed. I miss it. Not the equipment. But being 23 again. When the wars were young and fun. And so was I. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:43:47 PM EDT
[#41]
From an engineering standpoint I have to agree that mils is actually a better concept for ranging trajectories.
Having said that, I've use moa pretty much most of my life (to be honest I'm not even sure whether the M16's I've sighted in during my Army days were calibrated in mil or moa...) and so that's what I'm used to and can make mental calculations with to set my sights or scope to if needed. In the end, what matters is being able to put your hits on target. That is all. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:45:41 PM EDT
[#42]
A few of you need to look up the difference between coriolis effect and magnus effect.
As for mills vs moa? A real man can use both. He just needs to remember to switch his rangefinder between meters and yards.
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:46:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MOA scopes with 1/4-MOA clicks adjust 0.26175 inches per click at 100-yards. MIL scopes with 1/10-MIL clicks adjust 0.36 inches per click at 100-yards. So MOA scopes offer finer adjustment and thus, higher accuracy. It's science  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sir please I am the most serious and technical poster here. My scientific claims survive peer review constantly MIL scopes with 1/10-MIL clicks adjust 0.36 inches per click at 100-yards. So MOA scopes offer finer adjustment and thus, higher accuracy. It's science My original Nightforce had 1/8MOA adjustments. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:46:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The gun number is just an approximation and doesn’t scale accurately, .3 at 300 doesn’t translate to 1.2 at 1200 and those nice round numbers are only applicable at one wind speed. What do you do when the wind goes from 5 to 8 mph? Or you miss with your 5mph wind call and have to shoot a different target at a different distance? That’s why I like the tremor, as long as you are shooting the same load the wind dots never change. Once I know the dots are 4mph I can shoot at any distance (with less than 10 mills of drop) in any wind speed, very quickly. Yes, you have to bracket your wind speeds, it was a couple sentence response, not an in depth lesson on the process... If its 8 mph, and I have a 5 MPH gun, I would just do 1.5... so at 500, would be .75 mils. If I miss, I can do a quick measure of how far off it was, and get the wind from that, then apply it at the next distance. I love how youre arguing against MILs... while advocating for MILs... just in a very specific layout for your reticle. Youre also probably the only person Ive seen who actually likes the reticle. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:48:44 PM EDT
[#45]
If I'd measure myself in meters, I'd have confidence issues. In inches, I at least feel average.
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:48:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MOA is easy to use on the fly. Ranging and fast holdovers are simple. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tell me you're a fudd without telling me you're a fudd :) MOA is easy to use on the fly. Ranging and fast holdovers are simple. Which is pretty tactical |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:50:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Oh I see how it is
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:51:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don’t need to be shooting that far if you’re having to male those kind of adjustments. You sir were needed earlier. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:53:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Armson OEG with a magnifier in front of it toward the muzzle end. If no forward rail , Just turn the OEG around backwards and dial 2.25 MOA up for the henway atmospheric collusion. My viking tactics handguard is a trooper, I think it can handle it. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 6:55:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat:Which is pretty tactical Except the military does things in meters. So if you want snipes on the same page as everyone else to call for fire, CAS, etc., they do things in meters and mils. Because converting MOA to Mils causes more unnecessary math. Which is tactical. Of course many military ranges still have berms every 100 yards….. |
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