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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:18:28 PM EST
[#1]
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You mean "Cheaper to bill everyone else, that will never use or benefit, to manage it." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's big out here. Most don't want the land back, cheaper for the big gov to manage it. You mean "Cheaper to bill everyone else, that will never use or benefit, to manage it." Exactly. Just like it's cheaper for all of us to build a border fence for the good of the nation and not insist that the border states fund it. Just because you don't use or directly benefit from a national asset doesn't make it useless. Think bigger. You use and benefit from a lot more than you realize. Even folks without kids realize the value of living in areas with good schools that are supported by their property taxes. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:18:57 PM EST
[#2]
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Yes it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Look like we have less fed land ratio compared to everyone else  That isn't a plus Yes it is. uuhhhhh..........nope |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:19:24 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The flip side is that I can go Jeeping, hunting and shooting for free in National Forests and BLM holdings. We DO have large recreation areas. Free? That's cute. TANSTAAFL. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:21:09 PM EST
[#4]
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Largest bomb range in the world! A10s used to track my RV on the way to Rocky Point going through the Barry Goldwater gun range. They would pop up from behind some hills and make a camera gun run from head-on. Pretty scary. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:21:30 PM EST
[#5]
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The flip side is that I can go Jeeping, hunting and shooting for free in National Forests and BLM holdings. We DO have large recreation areas. Aren't there lots of complaints about BLM shutting down areas to human use for rather arbitrary reasons? My understanding is that off-roading was getting harder to do because of the federal bureaucracy involved. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:23:08 PM EST
[#6]
Public land for the public to use sounds great, and it use to be until in Nevada they have started fencing off large portions, only to tell people they cant use the land. Endangered species by the hundreds, protect the beetles, the trees, the roads, the air, the water, the climate. There are too many to list, and it has become a joke.
Funnel everyone into the same areas, close off the rest with bullshit excuses or outright lies, backed by enviro groups with money to sue for anything, then charge bullshit fees on the overcrowded small areas of use. It's getting worse by the day. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:25:57 PM EST
[#7]
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The flip side is that I can go Jeeping, hunting and shooting for free in National Forests and BLM holdings. We DO have large recreation areas. Keep telling yourself that. The left is doing everything they can to shut that down. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:26:05 PM EST
[#8]
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Public land for the public to use sounds great, and it use to be until in Nevada they have started fencing off large portions, only to tell people they cant use the land. Endangered species by the hundreds, protect the beetles, the trees, the roads, the air, the water, the climate. There are too many to list, and it has become a joke. Funnel everyone into the same areas, close off the rest with bullshit excuses or outright lies, backed by enviro groups with money to sue for anything, then charge bullshit fees on the overcrowded small areas of use. It's getting worse by the day. Instead of giant corporations fencing it off and forbidding anyone from using it. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:27:51 PM EST
[#9]
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:28:08 PM EST
[#10]
Much of Michigan, northern 2/3rds of state has state ownership of forest.
In Arizona, I believe there were vast areas of state trust land besides federal land. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:28:09 PM EST
[#11]
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uuhhhhh..........nope Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Look like we have less fed land ratio compared to everyone else That isn't a plus Yes it is. uuhhhhh..........nope Good. That mean you won't be coming here. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:29:11 PM EST
[#12]
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:29:37 PM EST
[#13]
Humongous will rule the wasteland after the collapse.
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:29:37 PM EST
[#14]
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Yep, a lot of Federal land was acquired during that time period. I believe the "refuge" involved in the Oregon controversy was one of those acquisitions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Disgusting. Blame the states and the residents at the time of admission. They thought it was better to leave the crappy land in the hands of the Feds, rather than have to pay for its upkeep themselves. And the ranchers who thought the idea of free grazing land was better than having to buy their own land to graze on. Actually, our very first Progressive President, Teddy Roosevelt, probably had a fairly large impact on the land grab. Wealthy Progressives, like the nobility of old, need their game reserves. Yep, a lot of Federal land was acquired during that time period. I believe the "refuge" involved in the Oregon controversy was one of those acquisitions. I haven't look into the current controversy. But what I've read and seen on video (one sided-protesters) looks bad for the government, and courts. Putting an old man away on "terrorism charges" for what amounts to a life sentence because he back burned his land trying to prevent a wildfire from taking his house seems harsh. I'm frustrated by the government's use of the term "terrorism" to prosecute citizens. The 9-11 hijackers were successful. It's not the flea that causes the damage, it's the dog's scratching. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:30:01 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aren't there lots of complaints about BLM shutting down areas to human use for rather arbitrary reasons? My understanding is that off-roading was getting harder to do because of the federal bureaucracy involved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The flip side is that I can go Jeeping, hunting and shooting for free in National Forests and BLM holdings. We DO have large recreation areas. Aren't there lots of complaints about BLM shutting down areas to human use for rather arbitrary reasons? My understanding is that off-roading was getting harder to do because of the federal bureaucracy involved. yeah that's why the bundy clan are stirring shit. It's fine if the feds own and maintain it but they need to allow the people to use it. Especially people who have used it for generations. It also needs to be available for mineral exploration and extraction provided the land is reclaimed afterward and doesn't trample on someones existing grazing rights. The people need to generally have free access to the land and be able to hunt fish and generally recreate on it. It is a bit communist sounding but the federal government is of by and for the people of the united states so anything the fed owns everyone owns |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:30:15 PM EST
[#16]
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:32:30 PM EST
[#17]
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I haven't look into the current controversy. But what I've read and seen on video (one sided-protesters) looks bad for the government, and courts. Putting an old man away on "terrorism charges" for what amounts to a life sentence because he back burned his land trying to prevent a wildfire from taking his house seems harsh. I'm frustrated by the government's use of the term "terrorism" to prosecute citizens. The 9-11 hijackers were successful. It's not the flea that causes the damage, it's the dog's scratching. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Disgusting. Blame the states and the residents at the time of admission. They thought it was better to leave the crappy land in the hands of the Feds, rather than have to pay for its upkeep themselves. And the ranchers who thought the idea of free grazing land was better than having to buy their own land to graze on. Actually, our very first Progressive President, Teddy Roosevelt, probably had a fairly large impact on the land grab. Wealthy Progressives, like the nobility of old, need their game reserves. Yep, a lot of Federal land was acquired during that time period. I believe the "refuge" involved in the Oregon controversy was one of those acquisitions. I haven't look into the current controversy. But what I've read and seen on video (one sided-protesters) looks bad for the government, and courts. Putting an old man away on "terrorism charges" for what amounts to a life sentence because he back burned his land trying to prevent a wildfire from taking his house seems harsh. I'm frustrated by the government's use of the term "terrorism" to prosecute citizens. The 9-11 hijackers were successful. It's not the flea that causes the damage, it's the dog's scratching. The law they were convicted under dated back to the early '90s and the event itself pre-dates 9/11. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:34:26 PM EST
[#18]
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You can go too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The flip side is that I can go Jeeping, hunting and shooting for free in National Forests and BLM holdings. We DO have large recreation areas. You're welcome.  You can go too. I'll just go drive two days to go do it. I just keep forgetting the enumerated power to "Hold millions of acres of land to provide bitching Jeep trails." In the constitution. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:39:44 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Instead of giant corporations fencing it off and forbidding anyone from using it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Public land for the public to use sounds great, and it use to be until in Nevada they have started fencing off large portions, only to tell people they cant use the land. Endangered species by the hundreds, protect the beetles, the trees, the roads, the air, the water, the climate. There are too many to list, and it has become a joke. Funnel everyone into the same areas, close off the rest with bullshit excuses or outright lies, backed by enviro groups with money to sue for anything, then charge bullshit fees on the overcrowded small areas of use. It's getting worse by the day. Instead of giant corporations fencing it off and forbidding anyone from using it. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:47:21 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The law they were convicted under dated back to the early '90s and the event itself pre-dates 9/11. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Blame the states and the residents at the time of admission. They thought it was better to leave the crappy land in the hands of the Feds, rather than have to pay for its upkeep themselves. And the ranchers who thought the idea of free grazing land was better than having to buy their own land to graze on. Actually, our very first Progressive President, Teddy Roosevelt, probably had a fairly large impact on the land grab. Wealthy Progressives, like the nobility of old, need their game reserves. Yep, a lot of Federal land was acquired during that time period. I believe the "refuge" involved in the Oregon controversy was one of those acquisitions. I haven't look into the current controversy. But what I've read and seen on video (one sided-protesters) looks bad for the government, and courts. Putting an old man away on "terrorism charges" for what amounts to a life sentence because he back burned his land trying to prevent a wildfire from taking his house seems harsh. I'm frustrated by the government's use of the term "terrorism" to prosecute citizens. The 9-11 hijackers were successful. It's not the flea that causes the damage, it's the dog's scratching. The law they were convicted under dated back to the early '90s and the event itself pre-dates 9/11. I see. Were they charged with "terrorism". The rally I saw on video indicated that he, and some other guy, were charged with "terrorism" for starting fires. If so, I don't remember that word being used back in the 90's in that way. But as I said, my only source of information was some light reading and that video, so I realize it's one sided. . |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:48:54 PM EST
[#21]
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I see. Were they charged with "terrorism". The rally I saw on video indicated that he, and some other guy, were charged with "terrorism" for starting fires. If so, I don't remember that word being used back in the 90's in that way. But as I said, my only source of information was some light reading and that video, so I realize it's one sided. . They were convicted of arson. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:49:21 PM EST
[#22]
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So nobody should complain about our taxes being used for public land, that we are being refused to use, because if a corporation owned it we would be forbidden to use it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Public land for the public to use sounds great, and it use to be until in Nevada they have started fencing off large portions, only to tell people they cant use the land. Endangered species by the hundreds, protect the beetles, the trees, the roads, the air, the water, the climate. There are too many to list, and it has become a joke. Funnel everyone into the same areas, close off the rest with bullshit excuses or outright lies, backed by enviro groups with money to sue for anything, then charge bullshit fees on the overcrowded small areas of use. It's getting worse by the day. Instead of giant corporations fencing it off and forbidding anyone from using it. I supposed Disney could buy Yosemite and put in a roller coaster. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 5:51:26 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The advantage to the Nobody Lives There states is, well nobody lives there. Alaska has the population of the county that Rochester NY is in. Low population and less urban usually =Republican Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The flip side is that I can go Jeeping, hunting and shooting for free in National Forests and BLM holdings. We DO have large recreation areas. While that map makes it look like "less freedom" it's actually more. As mentioned, we have endless miles of public use land while the east is all private owned and over populated.Alaska has the population of the county that Rochester NY is in. Low population and less urban usually =Republican |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:08:48 PM EST
[#24]
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Public land for the public to use sounds great, and it use to be until in Nevada they have started fencing off large portions, only to tell people they cant use the land. Endangered species by the hundreds, protect the beetles, the trees, the roads, the air, the water, the climate. There are too many to list, and it has become a joke. Funnel everyone into the same areas, close off the rest with bullshit excuses or outright lies, backed by enviro groups with money to sue for anything, then charge bullshit fees on the overcrowded small areas of use. It's getting worse by the day. ATV guy? I don't really run into too many restrictions that aren't caused by users bad conduct and the ATV crowd are the worst. And by the way, the driving force behind a lot of the restrictions are.... drum roll... ranchers who hold grazing allotments and are tired of their stock and infrastructure being fucked with by ATV riders. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:11:51 PM EST
[#25]
As an Oregonian I would prefer that the Federal and State lands stay the way they are.
I've met plenty of ranchers while on public lands. Some are great people... others think that they are King of the land and don't waste any time telling you what you can do on "their" land. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:15:05 PM EST
[#26]
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As an Oregonian I would prefer that the Federal and State lands stay the way they are. I've met plenty of ranchers while on public lands. Some are great people... others think that they are King of the land and don't waste any time telling you what you can do on "their" land. Why wouldn't you want the ranchers to just own the land they used? |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:16:28 PM EST
[#27]
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Why wouldn't you want the ranchers to just own the land they used? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As an Oregonian I would prefer that the Federal and State lands stay the way they are. I've met plenty of ranchers while on public lands. Some are great people... others think that they are King of the land and don't waste any time telling you what you can do on "their" land. Why wouldn't you want the ranchers to just own the land they used? I think he means land they act like they own, just because they are grazing their cattle there. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:22:43 PM EST
[#28]
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It's big out here. Most don't want the land back, cheaper for the big gov to manage it. Government doesn't do anything cheaper  .
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:27:10 PM EST
[#29]
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Why wouldn't you want the ranchers to just own the land they used? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As an Oregonian I would prefer that the Federal and State lands stay the way they are. I've met plenty of ranchers while on public lands. Some are great people... others think that they are King of the land and don't waste any time telling you what you can do on "their" land. Why wouldn't you want the ranchers to just own the land they used? Because in all honesty, the land can't support all that much cattle. The ranchers lease rights to graze the land which can also be used for other purposes. In the past, some ranchers have overgrazed it and the Feds instituted limits on cattle per acre, etc. Some ranchers resent the restrictions because they make the ranching marginal. They say the Feds are driving them out of business. Problem is, they never owned the land in the first place. They've grazed it forever, but it was NEVER theirs. This isn't a black & white issue; there' a LOT of grey area in the fight. It's PUBLIC land. He can graze it, I can Jeep it or shoot on it. But neither of us can abuse it beyond recovery. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:32:34 PM EST
[#30]
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Why wouldn't you want the ranchers to just own the land they used? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As an Oregonian I would prefer that the Federal and State lands stay the way they are. I've met plenty of ranchers while on public lands. Some are great people... others think that they are King of the land and don't waste any time telling you what you can do on "their" land. Why wouldn't you want the ranchers to just own the land they used? Stop being so bourgeois, it's the workers land, comrade. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:35:16 PM EST
[#31]
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The flip side is that I can go Jeeping, hunting and shooting for free in National Forests and BLM holdings. We DO have large recreation areas. /this I spend 30-45 nights a year out there all for free. Some of that percentage of the western states is places you don't want to be if you value your life - military bases, radio active bomb sites, and bombing/gunnery ranges full of UXO. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:36:05 PM EST
[#32]
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Public land for the public to use sounds great, and it use to be until in Nevada they have started fencing off large portions, only to tell people they cant use the land. Endangered species by the hundreds, protect the beetles, the trees, the roads, the air, the water, the climate. There are too many to list, and it has become a joke. Funnel everyone into the same areas, close off the rest with bullshit excuses or outright lies, backed by enviro groups with money to sue for anything, then charge bullshit fees on the overcrowded small areas of use. It's getting worse by the day. Exact same thing happening on the Outer Banks National Seashore. Can't even walk on the beaches there because of a freakin bird. I won't be surprised if it doesn't come to blows with the local fishermen and the NPS in the near future. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:36:11 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATV guy? I don't really run into too many restrictions that aren't caused by users bad conduct and the ATV crowd are the worst. And by the way, the driving force behind a lot of the restrictions are.... drum roll... ranchers who hold grazing allotments and are tired of their stock and infrastructure being fucked with by ATV riders. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Public land for the public to use sounds great, and it use to be until in Nevada they have started fencing off large portions, only to tell people they cant use the land. Endangered species by the hundreds, protect the beetles, the trees, the roads, the air, the water, the climate. There are too many to list, and it has become a joke. Funnel everyone into the same areas, close off the rest with bullshit excuses or outright lies, backed by enviro groups with money to sue for anything, then charge bullshit fees on the overcrowded small areas of use. It's getting worse by the day. ATV guy? I don't really run into too many restrictions that aren't caused by users bad conduct and the ATV crowd are the worst. And by the way, the driving force behind a lot of the restrictions are.... drum roll... ranchers who hold grazing allotments and are tired of their stock and infrastructure being fucked with by ATV riders. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:38:26 PM EST
[#34]
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Stop being so bourgeois, it's the workers land, comrade. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As an Oregonian I would prefer that the Federal and State lands stay the way they are. I've met plenty of ranchers while on public lands. Some are great people... others think that they are King of the land and don't waste any time telling you what you can do on "their" land. Why wouldn't you want the ranchers to just own the land they used? Stop being so bourgeois, it's the workers land, comrade. He is a Kulak |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:39:37 PM EST
[#35]
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So, in Nevada we get a 31% ROI on the Feds using 84.5% of our land. [rolf2]  boy did someone fuck with the numbers!
If you're an attractive state to retired veterans or even civilians, or if you have large populations of American Indians, that means your state is a leach state? 
Sorry not in my book. Look at which states get the most money bases on money given to the state, not the people living in the state. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:40:33 PM EST
[#36]
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Don't people complain that there is no where to hunt in Texas without paying for a lease? Or having to drive three hours to shoot past 100 yards at a private location. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:40:56 PM EST
[#37]
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/this I spend 30-45 nights a year out there all for free. Some of that percentage of the western states is places you don't want to be if you value your life - military bases, radio active bomb sites, and bombing/gunnery ranges full of UXO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The flip side is that I can go Jeeping, hunting and shooting for free in National Forests and BLM holdings. We DO have large recreation areas. /this I spend 30-45 nights a year out there all for free. Some of that percentage of the western states is places you don't want to be if you value your life - military bases, radio active bomb sites, and bombing/gunnery ranges full of UXO. whateves i ride my bicycle from yucca airstrip to sedan crater all the time i aint done blowed up yet and only one extra finger so far. pretty neat to look at that on google earth anyway |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:42:16 PM EST
[#38]
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Perhaps the Chinese would buy it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The feds ought to own/control about a tenth of that at most. Fucking disgusting.  Who would buy it? Perhaps the Chinese would buy it. My the metric million acre plot funded with all the money Americans spend on rubber dog shit produced in China by child slave labor. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:46:23 PM EST
[#39]
9.9%....Fucking Yankees are still a occupying force.
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:47:05 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: [rolf2] boy did someone fuck with the numbers! If you're an attractive state to retired veterans or even civilians, or if you have large populations of American Indians, that means your state is a leach state? Sorry not in my book. Look at which states get the most money bases on money given to the state, not the people living in the state. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So, in Nevada we get a 31% ROI on the Feds using 84.5% of our land. [rolf2] boy did someone fuck with the numbers! If you're an attractive state to retired veterans or even civilians, or if you have large populations of American Indians, that means your state is a leach state? Sorry not in my book. Look at which states get the most money bases on money given to the state, not the people living in the state.  I looked for that damn map, couldn't find it. This was a stand in to make the point that no issue can be looked at in a vacuum. As a resident, citizen, shooter, hunter, outdoors type dude, and geologist, I have a whole different list of often conflicting pros and cons on land use in general. And, despite being in a largely publicly owned/managed state, I've got a healthy chunk of land to myself to use as I see fit. I spend a great deal of time working on public land for private gain. I spend a great deal of time working for public agencies to facilitate public and private use of public land. It's not a simple issue at all, and there are far more ways to make the situation "worse" than "better". |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:48:36 PM EST
[#41]
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Or having to drive three hours to shoot past 100 yards at a private location. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Don't people complain that there is no where to hunt in Texas without paying for a lease? Or having to drive three hours to shoot past 100 yards at a private location. I have 7 ranges within 30 miles, two indoor. I can hunt on three ranches within 175 miles. One has 37 sections of land and the owner probably does not even know what BLM stands for.
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:49:29 PM EST
[#42]
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Actually, our very first Progressive President, Teddy Roosevelt, probably had a fairly large impact on the land grab. Wealthy Progressives, like the nobility of old, need their game reserves. Me too. I suppose most of the people I run into are wealthy as they're not at work, they're driving expensive and customized SUVs/pick-um-up trucks, and toting expensive guns and ammo. In +40 years of camping in Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Texas, Colorado, Hawaii, Washington and California I don't recall ever meeting a ute' with his pants sagging and wearing a hoodie. A free shooting range (notice the oppressive federal government range safety officer). 
A free camping range (notice the oppressive federal government presence) 
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:52:14 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just like it's cheaper for all of us to build a border fence for the good of the nation and not insist that the border states fund it. 
No actually the state of California attempted to build that border fence and the federal government ("the rest of the states") blocked it in court. Same with the moat near San Diego, the light towers 100 yards inside the state facing south so the BP could see who was sniping at them, and the CA border police - all blocked in court actions by the federal government. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 6:52:39 PM EST
[#44]
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So nobody should complain about our taxes being used for public land, that we are being refused to use, because if a corporation owned it we would be forbidden to use it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Public land for the public to use sounds great, and it use to be until in Nevada they have started fencing off large portions, only to tell people they cant use the land. Endangered species by the hundreds, protect the beetles, the trees, the roads, the air, the water, the climate. There are too many to list, and it has become a joke. Funnel everyone into the same areas, close off the rest with bullshit excuses or outright lies, backed by enviro groups with money to sue for anything, then charge bullshit fees on the overcrowded small areas of use. It's getting worse by the day. Instead of giant corporations fencing it off and forbidding anyone from using it. The Federal government is a corporation. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 7:24:29 PM EST
[#45]
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Me too. I suppose most of the people I run into are wealthy as they're not at work, they're driving expensive and customized SUVs/pick-um-up trucks, and toting expensive guns and ammo. In +40 years of camping in Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Texas, Colorado, Hawaii, Washington and California I don't recall ever meeting a ute' with his pants sagging and wearing a hoodie. A free shooting range (notice the oppressive federal government range safety officer). http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/AR-15_Paul/100%20yards_zpsjttbxkcv.jpg A free camping range (notice the oppressive federal government presence) http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/AR-15_Paul/Aliner%20Classic/FIrstTimeOffRoad1-Copy_zps5f68e568.jpg http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/AR-15_Paul/Aliner%20Classic/Desert05_zpscaee817a.jpg http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/AR-15_Paul/Aliner%20Classic/Desert01_zpsf513e33d.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Actually, our very first Progressive President, Teddy Roosevelt, probably had a fairly large impact on the land grab. Wealthy Progressives, like the nobility of old, need their game reserves. Me too. I suppose most of the people I run into are wealthy as they're not at work, they're driving expensive and customized SUVs/pick-um-up trucks, and toting expensive guns and ammo. In +40 years of camping in Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Texas, Colorado, Hawaii, Washington and California I don't recall ever meeting a ute' with his pants sagging and wearing a hoodie. A free shooting range (notice the oppressive federal government range safety officer). http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/AR-15_Paul/100%20yards_zpsjttbxkcv.jpg A free camping range (notice the oppressive federal government presence) http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/AR-15_Paul/Aliner%20Classic/FIrstTimeOffRoad1-Copy_zps5f68e568.jpg http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/AR-15_Paul/Aliner%20Classic/Desert05_zpscaee817a.jpg http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/AR-15_Paul/Aliner%20Classic/Desert01_zpsf513e33d.jpg what kills me is you will pretty much never see any kind of gov officials on this type of land but when the fed government "shutdown" the fuckers were all over the place writing tickets for being on the land... |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 8:18:50 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryWhy wouldn't you want the ranchers to just own the land they used? They purchase a grazing LEASE. Then when conditions change and the number of AUM's allowed goes down they complain about their "right" to graze there because they have for generations. When your in the ag business there are risks involved. If losing or reducing your grazing allotment is going to make you insolvent then you had better plan for it and diversify. The land is supposed to be managed for multiple uses. Not solely for profit cattle operations. I've seen land completely stripped from over grazing cattle. I've also seen first hand water sources damaged from allowing cattle to erode the banks and muddy the water. In some areas there is also damage from to many wild horses on the range. The BLM will not remove enough of them due to people in cities crying about it. There is plenty of blame to go around. To be honest I I'vee met field employees from the BLM USFS and ODFW all of them were decent people that were just as frustrated about the situation as anyone else. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 11:04:12 PM EST
[#47]
Connecticut is the land of the free by this metric.
Eta: but they own the governor, lick, stock, and barrel, which is probably more effective. |
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Posted: 1/5/2016 11:11:41 PM EST
[#48]
I don't think those visualizations are scaled right.
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Posted: 1/5/2016 11:34:21 PM EST
[#49]
I always hear the Fed owned most land in Ok? Not even close according to that map
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Posted: 1/6/2016 12:21:11 AM EST
[#50]
Enjoy it now. This is the end game. We will all get our .gov issued micro apartment and monthly allotment of soy meat and soy milk and soy cheese and soynut butter.
Rewilding 
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