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We don't have female clergy in my church, and I don't have a problem with that. But that's not even what I was talking about in the post you quoted. (But still...I remember in a Christianity thread from maybe a year or so ago, another GD member said that adult men shouldn't even read Christian books written by women. Because those books are "shallow" and not useful. Women can't write books on the Christian faith that would be useful to men. Would you carry it that far or not?) No. I do not consider a book's author to have religious authority over me - save for one particular Book. I wholeheartedly agree. I'm not defending Jane Rainbow Lesbian being a pastor of a church. That's not something I want. I'm talking more about when Joe Whorealot is pointing his finger and getting all sanctimonious at Mr. Village People because homosexuality is a sin... Even though Mr. Village People isn't attending Joe Whorealot's church, nor does Mr. Village People want to be a pastor. Mr. Village People could be minding his own business and Joe Whorealot is still so shocked and condemning about Mr. Village People's sin... Yeah. Right. Something else is fueling Joe Whorealot's indignation, but it's not because someone isn't adhering to the commandments of the Bible. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: I don't argue with that. I'm not saying that something that is called a sin in the Bible isn't a sin. I guess I'm saying that someone who also sins (in a different way) shouldn't get super high-and-mighty and do the "but that's different" about their sin, while getting all sanctimoniously condemning about someone else's. Someone who won't acknowledge their sin and feels that there's nothing wrong is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. No. I do not consider a book's author to have religious authority over me - save for one particular Book. Unrepentant practicing homosexuals, adulterers, thieves, liars, murderers, etc. should not be officers or teachers in a Church. Until such time as they can bring their own lives in compliance with God's direction, how can they help others to do the same? I'm not defending Jane Rainbow Lesbian being a pastor of a church. That's not something I want. I'm talking more about when Joe Whorealot is pointing his finger and getting all sanctimonious at Mr. Village People because homosexuality is a sin... Even though Mr. Village People isn't attending Joe Whorealot's church, nor does Mr. Village People want to be a pastor. Mr. Village People could be minding his own business and Joe Whorealot is still so shocked and condemning about Mr. Village People's sin... Yeah. Right. Something else is fueling Joe Whorealot's indignation, but it's not because someone isn't adhering to the commandments of the Bible. |
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It would depend on the church. It would depend on how obvious the whoremongering was. Also, just living with your boyfriend or girlfriend before marriage or having sex with them before marriage, while I wouldn't classify it as "whoremongering," would be behavior that is condemned by the Bible. View Quote |
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Church employees are frequently fired. Church members are rarely excommunicated. There's a huge difference. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you're an unrepentant whoremonger, you normally get excommunicated from whatever church it is you belong to. |
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Firing them quietly and not notifying authorities (or the next church they're hired at) isn't the proper response for that stuff. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you're an unrepentant whoremonger, you normally get excommunicated from whatever church it is you belong to. |
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A Bible commentary I'm currently reading (this one) explained in one of the Corinthian epistles that the women were getting loud and disruptive. This article talks more about that. I'm okay with "old fashioned" tradition and won't argue in favor of female clergy, though I'm sure that some women clergy members do a fine job. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: The Apostle Paul: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent" (1 Timothy 2:11-12). ETA: another view is that he's rejecting the teachings on gender roles within Artemis worship - IIRC there's ambiguity about "have authority" which is sometimes translated as "usurp authority". The Greek word () refers to domination, not merely having a role in churches that even men aren't to use to dominate others. I'm okay with "old fashioned" tradition and won't argue in favor of female clergy, though I'm sure that some women clergy members do a fine job. Male or female, pastors shouldn't be mixing their politics with the gospel. |
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Each interpretation and church would have people believe that they are the only "TRUE" and correct religion. View Quote I have been a member of a half dozen churches in my life, and all but one took the position that membership in a particular denomination, including their own, was not necessary to be a Christian. |
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The sky is falling!! Read more here. United Methodists tried to come to terms with a General Conference that was meant to unify but instead underscored divisions and had all sides acknowledging a high level of pain.
“Catastrophic” was the summary judgment of the Rev. James Howell, a Western North Carolina Conference delegate. “The church as we’ve known it will not be. It’s going to fracture in ways — different ways,” he said. Leaders of the United Methodist seminaries joined in a statement imploring that the Traditional Plan be rejected, arguing it would drive young people in the U.S. from ministry in the denomination.
“If the Traditional Plan passes, we will very soon lose an entire generation of leadership here in the United States,” they said. The Rev. Kah-Jin Jeffrey Kuan, president of Claremont Theological Seminary, said the seminaries’ unhappiness with the Traditional Plan’s passage runs deep.
“Some of our seminaries may consider whether to leave the denomination,” he said. The Rev. Susan Henry-Crowe, top executive of the denomination’s United Methodist Board of Church and Society, registered her dismay in a statement. “The United Methodist Church’s special General Conference failed Tuesday (Feb. 26) to love LGBTQIA people, recognize their gifts in the church, maintain our unity in the midst of diversity, and to live out our Gospel mandate to seek justice and pursue peace,” she said. |
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Firing them quietly and not notifying authorities (or the next church they're hired at) isn't the proper response for that stuff. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you're an unrepentant whoremonger, you normally get excommunicated from whatever church it is you belong to. |
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I can hear you calling the authorities: "Officer, I'd like to report a whoremonger." View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If you're an unrepentant whoremonger, you normally get excommunicated from whatever church it is you belong to. |
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We don't have female clergy in my church, and I don't have a problem with that. But that's not even what I was talking about in the post you quoted. (But still...I remember in a Christianity thread from maybe a year or so ago, another GD member said that adult men shouldn't even read Christian books written by women. Because those books are "shallow" and not useful. Women can't write books on the Christian faith that would be useful to men. Would you carry it that far or not?) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: I don't argue with that. I'm not saying that something that is called a sin in the Bible isn't a sin. I guess I'm saying that someone who also sins (in a different way) shouldn't get super high-and-mighty and do the "but that's different" about their sin, while getting all sanctimoniously condemning about someone else's. Someone who won't acknowledge their sin and feels that there's nothing wrong is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. I'm of the opinion that the Bible is clear on prohibiting female clergy, but that seems to be a bridge too far. |
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And if you don't want biblical reference you can just point to every Church with women in position of authority and how that always goes down, especially if they wear the uniform of short grey hair and multicolored robes. We Catholics even have a parody account for it: https://www.facebook.com/SusanFromTheParishCouncil/ View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: Women should never be in a position of authority over adult men in a Christian church. Unrepentant practicing homosexuals, adulterers, thieves, liars, murderers, etc. should not be officers or teachers in a Church. Until such time as they can bring their own lives in compliance with God's direction, how can they help others to do the same? We Catholics even have a parody account for it: https://www.facebook.com/SusanFromTheParishCouncil/ |
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Quoted: Disciples and apostles are two different things. Baptism itself is a pagan custom, you know that right? Egyptians were baptized for thousands of years before Christ. Do you know anything about the religious environment of Rome? Christianity is Essene/Pagan syncretism. View Quote There is NOTHING remotely pagan about the Essenes. They were a sect of Judaism that was devoted to the prophecies of the coming Messiah. Your accusations are particularly libelous because the Essenes are actually descendants of an ancient priestly line that goes back to King David, and that was historically famous for fiercely resisting paganism. Moreover, they go back far before the Romans. Ritual bathing is something that goes back to the time of the Exodus, and the Essenes practiced it daily. In the temple era, you had to ritually bathe before entering the temple, and new converts to Judaism were also ritually bathed. There's archeological evidence of ancient Mikvahs, ritual baths that is, all over the Holy Land. Any natural source of water, according to Jewish law, can be used in place of a Mikvah. Be it a river, lake, the ocean, etc. Absolutely nothing pagan about it. There are some pseudo-academic books running around out there that claim that Christianity is created out of paganism, but they're universally recognized as fakes. They're no different from people like Sitchin. They simply make things up without any sources. You find them repeated in things like American Zeitgeist and the Ancient Aliens people. ETA: Now infant baptism is pagan, but it's completely removed from traditional Judeo-Christian baptism. It was not practiced by the Essenes. |
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Great article. From one of the comments. Paraphrased."Perhaps the African Church needs to send missionaries to the US instead the other way around." View Quote "What about the heathen in Africa?" Their response was, "What about the heathen in America?" |
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Quoted: A Bible commentary I'm currently reading (this one) explained in one of the Corinthian epistles that the women were getting loud and disruptive. This article talks more about that. I'm okay with "old fashioned" tradition and won't argue in favor of female clergy, though I'm sure that some women clergy members do a fine job. View Quote It's also not surprising which standard fell first. Using the frog in a pot example, women in leadership was not as hot as homosexual leadership. But as far as scripture goes regarding women, there is no argument. 1 Tim 2 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. The Bible says that, for church matters at the very least, women are under the authority of men. And these arguments about limiting the prohibition are ridiculous. The passage goes right back to the first woman who ever existed to explain why women are to be under the authority of men. |
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If people will argue in favor of homosexual leadership in the church it isn't surprising that they will argue about female leadership in the church. It's also not surprising which standard fell first. Using the frog in a pot example, women in leadership was not as hot as homosexual leadership. But as far as scripture goes regarding women, there is no argument. 1 Tim 2 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. The Bible says that, for church matters at the very least, women are under the authority of men. And these arguments about limiting the prohibition are ridiculous. The passage goes right back to the first woman who ever existed to explain why women are to be under the authority of men. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: A Bible commentary I'm currently reading (this one) explained in one of the Corinthian epistles that the women were getting loud and disruptive. This article talks more about that. I'm okay with "old fashioned" tradition and won't argue in favor of female clergy, though I'm sure that some women clergy members do a fine job. It's also not surprising which standard fell first. Using the frog in a pot example, women in leadership was not as hot as homosexual leadership. But as far as scripture goes regarding women, there is no argument. 1 Tim 2 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. The Bible says that, for church matters at the very least, women are under the authority of men. And these arguments about limiting the prohibition are ridiculous. The passage goes right back to the first woman who ever existed to explain why women are to be under the authority of men. |
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I seem to recall a very important Man who said that it is not what goes into our mouths that defiles us, but rather what comes out. Am I mistaken? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'll take your share of the shellfish then. :) Am I mistaken? I think you're coming up with a fancy way to keep your shrimp. It's cool, I'll get my own. :) |
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I think you're coming up with a fancy way to keep your shrimp. It's cool, I'll get my own. :) View Quote This shrimp/lobster/mixed fabrics/stone an adulterer stuff that guys like you bring up when talking about the church and/or Christianity ... All it does is show you have no idea what you are talking about. |
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An existing Church with a recognized name is a much more valuable platform for social engineering. This is why people within the Catholic Church started dismantling traditional Catholic doctrine in the 1960's. View Quote |
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@Terlinguachili
I petition you, as a most noble and sage OP, to change the thread title to "Africa Wins Again - Liberal Methodists BTFO". |
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Quoted: Don't be dense. You know the point he's making. Respond to it substantively, if you are able. The saint of this, the saint of that, the saint of dog-walkers ... It's analogous to pagan practices. The god of this, god of that, god of this town, god of that element ... derp. ETA: And it isn't taught by Christ. View Quote So, you're maintaining that the organization who wrote the Bible turned around and ignores it? |
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What is wrong with an exemplar of faith? So, you're maintaining that the organization who wrote the Bible turned around and ignores it? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Don't be dense. You know the point he's making. Respond to it substantively, if you are able. The saint of this, the saint of that, the saint of dog-walkers ... It's analogous to pagan practices. The god of this, god of that, god of this town, god of that element ... derp. ETA: And it isn't taught by Christ. So, you're maintaining that the organization who wrote the Bible turned around and ignores it? I'm still looking for a Catholic that will tell me that when Popes have been deposed by various rulers, who then elevated their chosen Successor to the Papacy; that is actually in line with Apostolic Succession. |
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Quoted: What is wrong with an exemplar of faith? So, you're maintaining that the organization who wrote the Bible turned around and ignores it? View Quote Or the premise of apostolic descent? Or infant "baptism"? Or chaste clergy? Indulgences? Auto de fe? |
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Quoted: Lol you think this guy is bad? You haven't read Catholic history. It gets pretty disgusting. View Quote The Catholic light has had a lamp shade over it since Constantine, but the DeMedici popes were a straight up crime syndicate. The 'scandals' we see today are just afterglow. The 'church' became a profane caricature of itself with the DeMedicis. |
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