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Quoted: The idea is to have the militia large enough where this sort of thing is not feasible. Nationwide, it should be multiple times the size of the Federal ground forces, including regular, reserve, and NG components. I'm not sure how you think you can make it effective as an institution in a fragmented, untrained, unofficial capacity. View Quote Having them setup as a traditional force is completely unrealistic given the amount of training and resources they will have at their disposal. But this is all hypothetical so who cares what either of us think lol |
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Neighborhood Watch? Block Parties. Big barbecues. CERT. Appleseed. FEMA preparedness presentations at City council meetings. Volly church security. Police ride-a-longs. Patriotic observances. This is where the real Militia is. View Quote Was amazed that BDLS had as much info on terrorism as it did. Nothing new there but I imagine for civilians taking the course (and not sleeping through class) it would have been really eye opening. |
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Squad Leader, Team Leaders, hell, everybody except one (1) Rifleman in each Squad and maybe an AG in Wpns Squad are going to be FBI or BATFE agents anyway.
My neighborhood, I think we're going to focus on Block Watch to keep security after storms. |
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This is what I would want to see - neighborhoods or even individual streets (like mine!) defended from roving mobs of rioters bent upon looting, burning, assault, rape, murder, or otherwise just general mayhem. Block off the end(s) of a street and defend it against anyone and everyone. My model for the bad guys is the 1992 LA riots on steroids - large groups of baddies roving the streets, setting fires as they go. Properly placed, half a dozen guys or so armed with M1's and lots of ammo could make quick work of such a mob. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I think it would be relegated to defensive and area denial operations My model for the bad guys is the 1992 LA riots on steroids - large groups of baddies roving the streets, setting fires as they go. Properly placed, half a dozen guys or so armed with M1's and lots of ammo could make quick work of such a mob. |
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You'll be under surveillance the entire time. They rewind the footage, see where you came from, and SWAT Teams will have high risk warrants for your arrest within hours, to be executed ASAP, as they seal off the area with bearcats and orders for all the well-trained public school serfs to shelter in place while they deal with you. The guys on the SWAT Teams actually work out and shoot regularly, run through shoot houses, and most full time teams have hundreds of warrants under their belts. Your dynamic, inflict damage on the enemy with harassment and ambush fantasy will be over within 24 hours. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Squad is too much. Security is compromised. 12 yahoos running around? Huge footprint. The 3 man team is the core. As for the misison; "The mission of the team is to inflict maximum damage upon the enemy while minimizing risk to the team and community by means of harassment, ambush and decentralized action." The guys on the SWAT Teams actually work out and shoot regularly, run through shoot houses, and most full time teams have hundreds of warrants under their belts. Your dynamic, inflict damage on the enemy with harassment and ambush fantasy will be over within 24 hours. |
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A few well-placed high-level prostitutes and business leaders is far more effective than a paramilitary fantasy. Even if you miraculously assembled such a force of civilians, maybe 2% of them would be physically fit enough to draw these weapons from their storage and put them into action on the range, let along a dynamic environment. View Quote |
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let's just take a look at what a 'militia' would even be.
about 74.1% of all americans are overweight. 40% are obese. at its inception most of the population is unusable. the visual looks like about 50% are between the ages of 25..50 (combat usable). the rest are either kids or grandparents. american culture really doesn't lend itself to good health, so basically, the combat age group also has the highest incidence of obesity and overweight. america's militia could never fight its way out of a wet paper bag. it's pointless to discuss what kind of arms or tactics could be used. logistics becomes a problem, diet implies discipline is a problem, medication supply problem, etc. |
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not quite, minuteman reported and stayed. vollys put out the fire and go home that night. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You are quite right. Additionally, today's volunteer fire departments are a direct descendent of yesterday's Minute Men. They had full-time jobs they worked, but trained on the side with other neighbors and when the bell rang, they dropped what they were doing and responded immediately to the emergency/crisis. |
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Not that long ago I was having a similar conversation with some buddies of mine that were team guys and hey had some interesting things to say about it. We all agreed the best use for a modern militia would be disaster first response and an auxiliary to LE/National Guard. If done right, with a group of motivated guys that would actually devote the time and effort to train and learn could be a true asset to the community. Having a well trained, capable civilian force could act as a force multiplier if a large scale terrorist attack ever happened or if a terrorist cell took advantage of a natural disaster. A group that trains with law enforcement and assists from time to time and can also operate on their own would be ideal. With the above said the problem, as I see it is: The political environment around the word "militia" is toxic and needs to change. Also, getting law enforcement agencies to see the benefits of having trained, capable people is also difficult. I'd imagine most agencies would either be distrustful or feel threatened by such. Egos. I looked into a group once and what I found was all the people involved were good guys and most had their hearts in the right place but leadership was either "empire building" and only cared about getting numbers so they had guys "under their command". Most of the leaders had little or no training or skills and their above mentioned egos make them reluctant to allow real training because it would show the group how little the leader knew. The number of guys that could actually get out and do something was small compared to the number of guys that wanted to sit around and bitch about the government and drink beer. It's a real shame because I think there is still a place for a well regulated militia but there isn't one that I know of that isn't either a bunch of Bubbas or antigovernment. View Quote The closet you have to what you want is CERT. There will never be an organized militia doing what you want. |
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I've been an Officer in the RI Militia for many years. Artillery Company of Newport, to be exact. It's a purely ceremonial unit. However, under RI State law, being an Officer (no retirement limit) in the State Militia has some advantages. I encourage all to consult their State Laws, and find out if State militias are available, and if they are worth joining. Chances are that joining might be to your benefit. View Quote |
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We might ought to define militia or at least get OP to say how he is using the word. In the abstract, the militia is all the people with the capability to fight. Historically, in practice, militias served as an adjunct of state or local government and usually consisted of those who mustered when called. I do not consider insurgencies, like the Forest Brothers for example, militias or loose bands of guerilla fighters militias. Others might. If the militia was to be reformed in the U.S. along historical lines, beginning it with a pro-gun local government in a pro-gun state would be a good starting point. A mayor or commission member could be the captain. I could see this happening with a small town or county in perhaps Texas. It could grow from there, spreading to other towns and counties then to other states. Small rural local governments could be an ideal starting point. Many operate quite loosely and effectively. View Quote Will never happen. |
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Neighborhood Watch? Block Parties. Big barbecues. CERT. Appleseed. FEMA preparedness presentations at City council meetings. Volly church security. Police ride-a-longs. Patriotic observances. This is where the real Militia is. View Quote Or underground cells. The idea of uniformed, organized groups under local political control ain't gonna happen. |
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If there were a militia, the proper purpose today would be to deter the government from engaging in tyrannical acts.
There is no militia, due to the actions of the government. The implications of the combination of those two facts should weigh heavily on the minds of Americans. |
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Militarily? As in we killed more bad guys? I guess you could also argue that militarily the Brits won the American Revolution since they undoubtedly killed a lot more of us than we did of them. At the end of the day, we got our asses kicked in Vietnam for long enough that we lost public support for the war and thus we were forced to leave. Sure, you can dress it up anyway you want but reality doesn't care about feelings. And I'm not trying to disparage Vietnam or the guys who have been part of the modern conflicts. I was part of OEF and my dad served in Vietnam. I wouldn't call either a success story. View Quote |
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@carlos87 how did the people’s militias of eastern Ukraine resist the soros backed Kiev? View Quote |
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Quoted: By undercover help from the vile and reprehensible dictator Vladimir Putin of course, whose campaign of terror is the most dangerous menace since Hitler himself. Whether it be with the rigging of elections, undermining the hope of american democracy, mass exterminating journalists at home, or digging new oil pipelines designed to fund murder and oppression, the facts are clear. The Russian regime has crossed the line and there must be a strong american response. No longer can we sit idly by while the children of the world cry out from piles of rubble, and let the evil dictator continue his world terror campaign. We must also maintain our resolve in these dark days, where Putin pays people online to disagree and argue with all who hold true American ideals. View Quote |
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First things first. Bubba needs to drop about 50 to 80 pounds. Be able to sprint, run, and maneuver through adverse conditions and even in inclement weather. Heavy 6 and the neck beard boys will have to ditch the little Debbie and snacks from the magazine pouches and replace with magazines. That should come first and foremost, never mind assembling fire teams... View Quote |
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Lay back and watch, the first resistors will be easily rolled up and eliminated.
Join with the enemy, learn their tactics and profess allegiance. Become one with the mission and then use knowledge gained to turn the tide. |
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IMO, today's "militias" are Local Indigenous Forces. How they are organized, trained and operate is totally up to the needs of the smallest local entity...ie neighborhood, town. How those militias will be utilized, if at all, by some professional military force or higher LIF command is again dependent upon the mission and needs of those larger units AT THE TIME. Any attempts at organization of LIFs at higher levels at this point in time will only result in those units being infiltrated and compromised before the balloon even goes up.
So in a nutshell, it's up to us to organize and train our own cells...totally self-contained and off the radar. I believe our primary goal should be to ensure that our AO can be self-sufficient...able to provide for the basic needs of our neighbors - food, water, shelter, medical care, security, etc. No resistance cell has any chance of surviving without the support of its local community, so job one is to ensure that you are all valued members of that local community and can help ensure that all the basics of their survival are provided for. Those who wish to organize your LIF need to think more like SF "A" teams and less like traditional militias or military forces. The beauty of this is that you can prepare and train your neighborhood or local community without even mentioning "crazy" stuff like revolutions, insurgencies, civil wars, etc...you are merely preparing for emergencies of all kinds, and can use many of the resources that are already available for those purposes. Just my two cents...I'm not up to writing out the full dollar. Anyone who has been involved with Oathkeepers over the last 5 years or so knows what I am trying to convey. |
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I'm not worried about a technological power (or Da Gummint). I'm worried about looters, starving urbanites, and being unable to maintain food/water/shelter/meds. Again, some people are thinking "Red Dawn", when they should be thinking "One Second After". I'd much rather have a community-based organization of folks who can help maintain local security, order, and infrastructure, when 9-1-1 stops responding and the food trucks stop arriving at Publix...than any fantasy of stay behind guerrillas. View Quote |
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Quoted: Having several months of preps encompassing all life sustaining items is easy to do even on meager salaries. Siege threat from looters is minimal. Good OPSEC should be to keep a low profile, and if that fails 1 guy with an AR could repel 50 starving assholes pretty easy. If you have more than 50 storming the gates, the world has crumbled and you should have left the castle. Trying to apply a militia component to disaster relief is tarded and best left to the National Gaurd and fed money. View Quote FYI, 1 guy with an AR has to sleep sometime. Lone wolves usually end up as dead wolves. |
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don't quite get the concepts of insurgency or counter-insurgency, do ya? FYI, 1 guy with an AR has to sleep sometime. Lone wolves usually end up as dead wolves. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Having several months of preps encompassing all life sustaining items is easy to do even on meager salaries. Siege threat from looters is minimal. Good OPSEC should be to keep a low profile, and if that fails 1 guy with an AR could repel 50 starving assholes pretty easy. If you have more than 50 storming the gates, the world has crumbled and you should have left the castle. Trying to apply a militia component to disaster relief is tarded and best left to the National Gaurd and fed money. FYI, 1 guy with an AR has to sleep sometime. Lone wolves usually end up as dead wolves. |
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The strength of the militia in the US , in a war on our soil, is harassment, road blocks, IEDs etc, hit and run. The biggest advantage though, and the biggest weapon, is that the militia know where the families of the traitors ( in the case of a tyrannical government ) lives. I'll leave it at that. View Quote |
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Quoted: How about we don't dispense with it. We won by not losing. Which is what all insurgencies do. We became more of a PITA than we were worth. We didn't defeat the British Empire. We defeated what the British Empire was willing to invest in trying to retain control over us. Even Yorktown was just an abandonment by the Royal Navy after the French Navy spanked them hard enough to say "fuck it" It wasn't the battle of Yorktown, it was the battle in Parliament. View Quote |
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You'll be under surveillance the entire time. They rewind the footage, see where you came from, and SWAT Teams will have high risk warrants for your arrest within hours, to be executed ASAP, as they seal off the area with bearcats and orders for all the well-trained public school serfs to shelter in place while they deal with you. The guys on the SWAT Teams actually work out and shoot regularly, run through shoot houses, and most full time teams have hundreds of warrants under their belts. Your dynamic, inflict damage on the enemy with harassment and ambush fantasy will be over within 24 hours. View Quote |
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Your statement is dependent upon the assumption that those "SWAT" teams are going to have the manpower and the will to outlast the insurgents. They don't have the numbers now...and their numbers, moral and team cohesiveness WILL be reduced by attrition. Some guys will simply walk away to join the insurgency, some will simply walk away, some will be normal casualties (you can't run a high volume of ops without experiencing casualties), and some will be a result of your teams being ambushed or running into unanticipated resistance. View Quote Bricks through living room windows with notes to the effect of "Nice home you got. Be a shame if were to, IDK, burn down" carry a powerful message. |
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The idea is to have the militia large enough where this sort of thing is not feasible. Nationwide, it should be multiple times the size of the Federal ground forces, including regular, reserve, and NG components. I'm not sure how you think you can make it effective as an institution in a fragmented, untrained, unofficial capacity. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Quoted: Actually, they are roles that have throughout history been engaged in by militia. In order to do what you propose they still need to be large enough, organized, trained, officered, well-equipped, disciplined, armed with more than small arms, etc. The force needs to already exist and be capable. Organizing it ad hoc once the crisis is underway is a recipe for failure; at best, it imposes many difficulties. Call it what you want it’s a group of like minded individuals who train together. |
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Quoted: Militarily you can easily argue we won in Vietnam and Iraq. View Quote I would suggest that the two best examples of where we have defeated an insurgency both militarily and politically would be the Civil War and the "Indian" wars. Total warfare, not only defeating the opponent militarily, but destroying his means to survive economically and physically. Darn near total extermination. |
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I'm never claimed that the militia was solely about insurgency. Most of its functions have nothing to do with that. It should be trained to turn itself into a guerilla force if necessary, but most of its functions are to do tasks like LE, disaster relief, event security, and things like that, and to act as a deterrent to situations that might warrant rebellion or insurrection, among other things. You're too fixated on the insurgency aspect that you seem to think that's all anyone's talking about. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This is why Bigstick's idea is asinine and guaranteed to fail. You waiting around for a squad sized element to show up could take hours. Thats plenty of time for whatever opportunity you were going to take advantage of to disappear, but it does present tons of time for .gov assets to get into the air and find you. And then track you home and hellfire you or send in JBT's when you're asleep. The fact that he thinks having this be some formal, legit organization shows how oblivious he is to the realities of how to actually fight an insurgency. Formality requires organization and organization requires way more record keeping and meetups all of which present opportunities for enemies to gather your info and then, bam you dead. How militia's worked in Europe/Britain before (or even after) our revolution is irrelevant. From one latino to another, Amen baby! |
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Lots of you gentlemen are making a mistake of equating the militia with some sort of a guerilla/insurgency/partisan force. That is not what militia is about. It was intended as a territorial paramilitary force that could be mobilized for a local or national defence. If it were to be resurrected today, it would not be much different. It would need an officer corps and be organized on territorial basis. The members would be under military code of justice while serving with punishments for desertion, have regular (quarterly) maneuvers etc. It could still be done. Start small, recruit a few hundred people per County, train them in the evenings or in weekends, and then have them establish branches in the neighborhoods.
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Lots of you gentlemen are making a mistake of equating the militia with some sort of a guerilla/insurgency/partisan force View Quote A militia in the modern context would almost certainly be insurgents. |
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Because Swede's have 16 years of experience countering insurgencies with bleeding edge technology and doctrine. Oh, wait, no they don't. The Irish in the 1990s had a grasp of the nature of insurgency against a technological foe. You've got about three decades of reality-based doctrine to catch up on. But please, tell us more about NATO stay-behind forces based on 1960s doctrine and intended to fight against a non-technological foe. The concepts that have evolved in conflicts against the British in Ireland, the Israeli government and the US in Afghanistan/ Iraq cannot be ignored. The technological assets available to forces involved in COIN completely change the nature of effective resistance. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Again, that hierarchy and line of communication is exactly how the enemy will track and eliminate militia cells. I get it, you're european so it's probably harder for you to grasp individualism. But, no that is a guaranteed way to fail. Or even be manipulated by the chain of command (if say the enemy infiltrates the upper echelons) to be ineffective. Mil & LEO's can afford hierarchy cuz they got the logistics and tools to play that game. Us plebs on the ground at risk from local gestapo types have a lot less infrastructure and defenses in place to CYA You're clueless. The Irish in the 1990s had a grasp of the nature of insurgency against a technological foe. You've got about three decades of reality-based doctrine to catch up on. But please, tell us more about NATO stay-behind forces based on 1960s doctrine and intended to fight against a non-technological foe. The concepts that have evolved in conflicts against the British in Ireland, the Israeli government and the US in Afghanistan/ Iraq cannot be ignored. The technological assets available to forces involved in COIN completely change the nature of effective resistance. |
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Lots of you gentlemen are making a mistake of equating the militia with some sort of a guerilla/insurgency/partisan force. That is not what militia is about. It was intended as a territorial paramilitary force that could be mobilized for a local or national defence. If it were to be resurrected today, it would not be much different. It would need an officer corps and be organized on territorial basis. The members would be under military code of justice while serving with punishments for desertion, have regular (quarterly) maneuvers etc. It could still be done. Start small, recruit a few hundred people per County, train them in the evenings or in weekends, and then have them establish branches in the neighborhoods. View Quote |
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Quoted: Because the militias in the South in 1860 and the American Revolutionary War were totally not guerrillas or insurgents A militia in the modern context would almost certainly be insurgents. View Quote 1. the "unorganized militia" as codified in the US Code (pretty much all of us who are not active duty, reserves or national guard) 2. the current State militias in states like Ohio, New Mexico and other states mentioned in this thread that are state-owned and not the national guard. 3. Private militias created and manned by pretty much anybody, but not under the control of any lawful governing body or government entity. IMO, some or all of them would only become insurgents if they perceive that our government has finally jumped the shark. |
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Quoted: A militia in the modern context would be: 1. the "unorganized militia" as codified in the US Code (pretty much all of us who are not active duty, reserves or national guard) 2. the current State militias in states like Ohio, New Mexico and other states mentioned in this thread that are state-owned and not the national guard. 3. Private militias created and manned by pretty much anybody, but not under the control of any lawful governing body or government entity. IMO, some or all of them would only become insurgents if they perceive that our government has finally jumped the shark. View Quote The modern militia is implicitly a threatened insurgency against a tyrannical government. which is why the left hates the concept. |
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Quoted: all of your above listed militias would only activate if your last scenario came to pass. The modern militia is implicitly a threatened insurgency against a tyrannical government. which is why the left hates the concept. View Quote |
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I think the "Able bodied" requirement should have more focus than get talked about.
I do not fit under able bodied since I am still recovering from shoulder surgery and there is no way I could pass the APTF. That is the "Able bodied" standard for the militia? |
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I think the "Able bodied" requirement should have more focus than get talked about. I do not fit under able bodied since I am still recovering from shoulder surgery and there is no way I could pass the APTF. That is the "Able bodied" standard for the militia? View Quote Lots of other topics to cover- before we change our focus, does anyone disagree with adopting Sylvan's mission statement? "The mission of the team is to inflict maximum damage upon the enemy while minimizing risk to the team and community by means of harassment, ambush and decentralized action." |
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Battle Drill 87: build and utilize an Improvised Explosive Device
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Quoted: No, besides training, the state militias, as well as some of the private militias, "activate" all the time....usually to assist either the guard, county sheriff or local LEOs with natural disaster response and even community events. That is the actual purpose and mission of all of the state militias and many of the private militias. Granted, many private militias train for insurgency, but such a thing would not be tolerated in the state militias. View Quote |
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I think the "Able bodied" requirement should have more focus View Quote Point is, an effective militia or insurgency runs on more than fit grunts alone. If you can contribute, I am not going to throw you out of bed for eating too many big macs. |
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Quoted: community service through traffic control is something they do to pass the time. It is not why the militias were created nor maintained. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: community service through traffic control is something they do to pass the time. It is not why the militias were created nor maintained. The mission of the Texas State Guard (TXSG) is to provide mission-ready military forces to assist state and local authorities in times of state emergencies; to conduct homeland security and community service activities under the umbrella of Defense Support to Civil Authorities; and to augment the Texas Army National Guard and Texas Air National Guard as required. |
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Quoted: Incorrect. It's not like you can't actually do a bit of homework and read their mission statements. Take the Texas State Guard as one of the better known examples of a state militia. https://tmd.texas.gov/state-guard View Quote |
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