[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Mormons - explain this to me (Page 6 of 11)
|
Quoted:
And that is fine. Nobody is requiring you to believe anything.  Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been kind enough to address the topic itself. https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng From their slanted view of course.......  Like anyone could possibly say anything that would convince YOU otherwise. That correct, I do not believe made up garbage as the "gospel truth".  And that is fine. Nobody is requiring you to believe anything. Yet when any thread is started on this forum showing how made up and false your religion really is, you and other LDS will vehemently defend your said religion no matter how irrational and uneducated it makes you look because of "faith". 
You do understand that you only add more fuel to the fire by doing so. If any LDS member or sympathizer would choose to not respond the thread would quickly go away. Since you feel so inclined to attempt to defend something that is not defensible you only drag your "faith" through the mud and you and others actions discredit it more and more. |
|
Quoted:
You saying that to me is like a Jewish person telling you to give up Jesus Christ and the New Testament and accept only the first 5 books of the Old Testament (the Torah). You would never do such a thing because presumably you know what Jesus Christ has done to your life and your heart. I feel the EXACT SAME WAY about the Book of Mormon, which testifies of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I know it is truth because I've received the witness of the Holy Ghost that it is. I know it is true because I've lived by its precepts and have seen my life expand toward God. I get that just like the Jews of old you will reject the further words of God to man, the other witnesses of Christ, but asking me to do so is as preposterous as a Jewish person asking you to reject Christ. I will not do it, I already know it's true. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Lord did leave a message in the Book of Mormon for you though Old Painless. I truly hope you consider these words carefully. <snip> Thanks for the offer, but I wholly reject that as blasphemy and heresy. I will trust the God of the Bible, not the one that Joseph Smith made up. It is too late for Smith to change his mind, but not for you. Please reconsider while there is time. You saying that to me is like a Jewish person telling you to give up Jesus Christ and the New Testament and accept only the first 5 books of the Old Testament (the Torah). You would never do such a thing because presumably you know what Jesus Christ has done to your life and your heart. I feel the EXACT SAME WAY about the Book of Mormon, which testifies of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I know it is truth because I've received the witness of the Holy Ghost that it is. I know it is true because I've lived by its precepts and have seen my life expand toward God. I get that just like the Jews of old you will reject the further words of God to man, the other witnesses of Christ, but asking me to do so is as preposterous as a Jewish person asking you to reject Christ. I will not do it, I already know it's true. Then you've made your decision. Fine with me. Believe as you please.
|
|
Quoted:
Your colorful description falls apart once one considers that non-LDS wagon trains passed through Utah before and after this isolated event without incident. A rational person would want to understand why a community that freely traded and allowed safe passage for wagon trains before and after would behave in this singularly different manner. Your response also manifests a desire to assume the worst no matter what is known. I don't see any reason to continue the conversation with you.
My "colorful description" is factual. They besieged the wagon train for 5 days, disguised as Indians, with some Indians along for the ride. After 5 days the besiegers were afraid that the people in the wagon train had identified that their attackers were mostly white men. A white flag of truce was displayed and the wagon train party was "escorted" out of the encampment "to safety", marched a short way, and then executed to make sure there were no credible witnesses. Only children younger than 7 years age were spared, all children older than that, as well as all men and children, were cold-bloodedly executed. Then their belongings were auctioned off. Do tell what was so different this time that justified all of this. |
|
Quoted:
My "colorful description" is factual. They besieged the wagon train for 5 days, disguised as Indians, with some Indians along for the ride. After 5 days the besiegers were afraid that the people in the wagon train had identified that their attackers were mostly white men. A white flag of truce was displayed and the wagon train party was "escorted" out of the encampment "to safety", marched a short way, and then executed to make sure there were no credible witnesses. Only children younger than 7 years age were spared, all children older than that, as well as all men and children, were cold-bloodedly executed. Then their belongings were auctioned off. Do tell what was so different this time that justified all of this. Quoted:
Quoted:
Your colorful description falls apart once one considers that non-LDS wagon trains passed through Utah before and after this isolated event without incident. A rational person would want to understand why a community that freely traded and allowed safe passage for wagon trains before and after would behave in this singularly different manner. Your response also manifests a desire to assume the worst no matter what is known. I don't see any reason to continue the conversation with you.
My "colorful description" is factual. They besieged the wagon train for 5 days, disguised as Indians, with some Indians along for the ride. After 5 days the besiegers were afraid that the people in the wagon train had identified that their attackers were mostly white men. A white flag of truce was displayed and the wagon train party was "escorted" out of the encampment "to safety", marched a short way, and then executed to make sure there were no credible witnesses. Only children younger than 7 years age were spared, all children older than that, as well as all men and children, were cold-bloodedly executed. Then their belongings were auctioned off. Do tell what was so different this time that justified all of this. It's ok we understand you're a baptist. |
|
Quoted:
My "colorful description" is factual. They besieged the wagon train for 5 days, disguised as Indians, with some Indians along for the ride. After 5 days the besiegers were afraid that the people in the wagon train had identified that their attackers were mostly white men. A white flag of truce was displayed and the wagon train party was "escorted" out of the encampment "to safety", marched a short way, and then executed to make sure there were no credible witnesses. Only children younger than 7 years age were spared, all children older than that, as well as all men and children, were cold-bloodedly executed. Then their belongings were auctioned off. Do tell what was so different this time that justified all of this. Quoted:
Quoted:
Your colorful description falls apart once one considers that non-LDS wagon trains passed through Utah before and after this isolated event without incident. A rational person would want to understand why a community that freely traded and allowed safe passage for wagon trains before and after would behave in this singularly different manner. Your response also manifests a desire to assume the worst no matter what is known. I don't see any reason to continue the conversation with you.
My "colorful description" is factual. They besieged the wagon train for 5 days, disguised as Indians, with some Indians along for the ride. After 5 days the besiegers were afraid that the people in the wagon train had identified that their attackers were mostly white men. A white flag of truce was displayed and the wagon train party was "escorted" out of the encampment "to safety", marched a short way, and then executed to make sure there were no credible witnesses. Only children younger than 7 years age were spared, all children older than that, as well as all men and children, were cold-bloodedly executed. Then their belongings were auctioned off. Do tell what was so different this time that justified all of this. Read what's been said, it's still more credible than your continuing to vilify modern Mormons with 150+ year old crimes. |
|
Quoted:
Old Testament has fulfilled prophecy. Joseph Smith? Not so much. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Lord did leave a message in the Book of Mormon for you though Old Painless. I truly hope you consider these words carefully. <snip> Thanks for the offer, but I wholly reject that as blasphemy and heresy. I will trust the God of the Bible, not the one that Joseph Smith made up. It is too late for Smith to change his mind, but not for you. Please reconsider while there is time. Yes the old testament of the bible written by goat herders 2500 years ago is way more believable than every other religion that came before or since. Just because there are geographical name consistency in the bible and today doesn't mean the rest is factual or any more believable then Joseph Smith's magic glasses and magic tablets only he can see. Old Testament has fulfilled prophecy. Joseph Smith? Not so much. You've be raised to believe that it is fulfilled prophecy, that doesn't make it so. Prophecies are pretty easy to twist and spin around and made to fit whatever you like. History is full of prophets whose believers would say the same thing as you. Why are you right and they are not? What one believes in generally comes down to their own indoctrinated religion more than actual verifiable facts. I assume that you haven't had equal exposure to all the world's major religions enough to be able to make a non bias call on which is right or wrong. You've been raised in a christian society so it's no surprise you lean that way, |
|
Quoted: The Mountain Meadows Masacre was a horible act perpetrated by men in difficult circumstances. The men responsible were excommunicated from the church once the truth was known and 'local authority' involved was executed for his crimes. It is brought up 150 years later only to try to smear the names of millions of people who had not one thing to do with it by association. Bad men commited horrible crimes and they were punished for it. It does not change the value of a belief system when some people who purport to be a part of it decidedly commit acts that are not in accordance with that belief system. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: LOL! You talk as if you're an expert on the LDS, yet don't even know how to spell "Mormon" correctly. Question 1 - the people that perpetrated the MM Massacre were Mormon (correct spelling?)? Question 2 - the massacre was a conspiracy involving local church leadership? Question 3 - an attempt was made to shift blame for the deaths to Native Americans - yes? Question 4 - livestock, wagons, valuables, and children were confiscated by the Mormons? The Mountain Meadows Masacre was a horible act perpetrated by men in difficult circumstances. The men responsible were excommunicated from the church once the truth was known and 'local authority' involved was executed for his crimes. It is brought up 150 years later only to try to smear the names of millions of people who had not one thing to do with it by association. Bad men commited horrible crimes and they were punished for it. It does not change the value of a belief system when some people who purport to be a part of it decidedly commit acts that are not in accordance with that belief system. hmmmm....so, kinda like Islam?  |
|
Quoted:
I know it is truth because I've received the witness of the Holy Ghost that it is. I know it is true because I've lived by its precepts and have seen my life expand toward God. I get that just like the Jews of old you will reject the further words of God to man, the other witnesses of Christ, but asking me to do so is as preposterous as a Jewish person asking you to reject Christ. I will not do it, I already know it's true. Why faith is not a good way to truth. Multiple religions use faith and come to mutually contradictory conclusions. |
|
Quoted:
Yet when any thread is started on this forum showing how made up and false your religion really is, you and other LDS will vehemently defend your said religion no matter how irrational and uneducated it makes you look because of "faith".
You do understand that you only add more fuel to the fire by doing so. If any LDS member or sympathizer would choose to not respond the thread would quickly go away. Since you feel so inclined to attempt to defend something that is not defensible you only drag your "faith" through the mud and you and others actions discredit it more and more. So the only way we're not wrong is if we don't defend our religion? But if we didn't defend it we would be "avoiding it" or something. |
|
Quoted:
https://youtu.be/iVc2egc0v0o Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been kind enough to address the topic itself. https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng Don't forget this documentary on the subject.  youtu.be/3HSlbuli7HMhttps://youtu.be/iVc2egc0v0o
|
|
Quoted:
hmmmm....so, kinda like Islam?
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
LOL! You talk as if you're an expert on the LDS, yet don't even know how to spell "Mormon" correctly. Question 1 - the people that perpetrated the MM Massacre were Mormon (correct spelling?)? Question 2 - the massacre was a conspiracy involving local church leadership? Question 3 - an attempt was made to shift blame for the deaths to Native Americans - yes? Question 4 - livestock, wagons, valuables, and children were confiscated by the Mormons? The Mountain Meadows Masacre was a horible act perpetrated by men in difficult circumstances. The men responsible were excommunicated from the church once the truth was known and 'local authority' involved was executed for his crimes. It is brought up 150 years later only to try to smear the names of millions of people who had not one thing to do with it by association. Bad men commited horrible crimes and they were punished for it. It does not change the value of a belief system when some people who purport to be a part of it decidedly commit acts that are not in accordance with that belief system.
Hmmm... I must be obtuse. I fail to see any correlation. |
|
Quoted:
Why faith is not a good way to truth. Multiple religions use faith and come to mutually contradictory conclusions. Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it is truth because I've received the witness of the Holy Ghost that it is. I know it is true because I've lived by its precepts and have seen my life expand toward God. I get that just like the Jews of old you will reject the further words of God to man, the other witnesses of Christ, but asking me to do so is as preposterous as a Jewish person asking you to reject Christ. I will not do it, I already know it's true. Why faith is not a good way to truth. Multiple religions use faith and come to mutually contradictory conclusions. You and I have danced this dance before. You think I'm wrong/ignorant/foolish I know you are blind. Rehashing it here will not change either of our minds. I've explained I think now several times why it may seem that they are contradictory but they're not. You've ignored it several times. Not worth my time again. |
|
Quoted: Why faith is not a good way to truth. Multiple religions use faith and come to mutually contradictory conclusions. Quoted: Quoted: I know it is truth because I've received the witness of the Holy Ghost that it is. I know it is true because I've lived by its precepts and have seen my life expand toward God. I get that just like the Jews of old you will reject the further words of God to man, the other witnesses of Christ, but asking me to do so is as preposterous as a Jewish person asking you to reject Christ. I will not do it, I already know it's true. Why faith is not a good way to truth. Multiple religions use faith and come to mutually contradictory conclusions. |
|
Quoted:
Yet when any thread is started on this forum showing how made up and false your religion really is, you and other LDS will vehemently defend your said religion no matter how irrational and uneducated it makes you look because of "faith".
You do understand that you only add more fuel to the fire by doing so. If any LDS member or sympathizer would choose to not respond the thread would quickly go away. Since you feel so inclined to attempt to defend something that is not defensible you only drag your "faith" through the mud and you and others actions discredit it more and more. Nothing has been discredited except in your slanted view. I think it's hard for many to comprehend the amount of vitriol, ignorance, misunderstanding, out right lies, misinformation Mormons deal with from other faiths. I've heard it all of my life from atheists and especially mainstream Christians, some of which should be embarrassed to call themselves Christians. The truth is though it has simply forced me to find answers, either in holy writ, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, by prophetic and apostolic pronouncements and by the excellent work of Mormon scholars. I do not follow my faith blindly hoping no one will penetrate the cacoon of indoctrination and 'zing me with the truth'. I have questioned, sought, lived and see the wonderful logic and beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I can't speak for others but I answer these threads so as not to become a charricature in absentia. To correct the misinformation planted by people like yourself who have either a clear bias or clear ignorance. |
|
Quoted:
I never said laws or morality was a bad thing I was only stating the how/why the concept of law originated. You say It's not fear of imaginary gods but the love of God that resides in the hearts of God fearing(respecting) people that allows a free people to live in harmony I assume you are speaking of only your God in this scenario? Religion has more to do with geography then belief based on facts. Most people have their religion decided before they are even born. Quoted:
Basis of all morality you mean? The morality that says it's not right to punch you in the head for saying foolish things spawns laws made by men against assault. This is a bad thing? It's not fear of imaginary gods but the love of God that resides in the hearts of God fearing(respecting) people that allows a free people to live in harmony with each other. It is only as we've begun to lose that God given morality born of love that we've had to legislate and make laws against every selfish act. The less people love and believe in God the more laws will be necessary to cohabitate peacefully, until either we have no peace or we have no freedom. Surely you can see this.
I never said laws or morality was a bad thing I was only stating the how/why the concept of law originated. You say It's not fear of imaginary gods but the love of God that resides in the hearts of God fearing(respecting) people that allows a free people to live in harmony I assume you are speaking of only your God in this scenario? Religion has more to do with geography then belief based on facts. Most people have their religion decided before they are even born. This is a cop out. What about those who don't fit your overly simplistic categorization? I'm still waiting to hear how all religion is about control. Must be nice to live in a fantasy land where you can dismiss billions of people with two strokes of a brush. |
|
Quoted:
Nothing has been discredited except in your slanted view. I think it's hard for many to comprehend the amount of vitriol, ignorance, misunderstanding, out right lies, misinformation Mormons deal with from other faiths. I've heard it all of my life from atheists and especially mainstream Christians, some of which should be embarrassed to call themselves Christians. The truth is though it has simply forced me to find answers, either in holy writ, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, by prophetic and apostolic pronouncements and by the excellent work of Mormon scholars. I do not follow my faith blindly hoping no one will penetrate the cacoon of indoctrination and 'zing me with the truth'. I have questioned, sought, lived and see the wonderful logic and beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I can't speak for others but I answer these threads so as not to become a charricature in absentia. To correct the misinformation planted by people like yourself who have either a clear bias or clear ignorance. Quoted:
Quoted:
Yet when any thread is started on this forum showing how made up and false your religion really is, you and other LDS will vehemently defend your said religion no matter how irrational and uneducated it makes you look because of "faith".
You do understand that you only add more fuel to the fire by doing so. If any LDS member or sympathizer would choose to not respond the thread would quickly go away. Since you feel so inclined to attempt to defend something that is not defensible you only drag your "faith" through the mud and you and others actions discredit it more and more. Nothing has been discredited except in your slanted view. I think it's hard for many to comprehend the amount of vitriol, ignorance, misunderstanding, out right lies, misinformation Mormons deal with from other faiths. I've heard it all of my life from atheists and especially mainstream Christians, some of which should be embarrassed to call themselves Christians. The truth is though it has simply forced me to find answers, either in holy writ, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, by prophetic and apostolic pronouncements and by the excellent work of Mormon scholars. I do not follow my faith blindly hoping no one will penetrate the cacoon of indoctrination and 'zing me with the truth'. I have questioned, sought, lived and see the wonderful logic and beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I can't speak for others but I answer these threads so as not to become a charricature in absentia. To correct the misinformation planted by people like yourself who have either a clear bias or clear ignorance. Because this guy. 
And this guy. 
Are the same! |
|
Quoted:
It's ok we understand you're a baptist. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your colorful description falls apart once one considers that non-LDS wagon trains passed through Utah before and after this isolated event without incident. A rational person would want to understand why a community that freely traded and allowed safe passage for wagon trains before and after would behave in this singularly different manner. Your response also manifests a desire to assume the worst no matter what is known. I don't see any reason to continue the conversation with you.
My "colorful description" is factual. They besieged the wagon train for 5 days, disguised as Indians, with some Indians along for the ride. After 5 days the besiegers were afraid that the people in the wagon train had identified that their attackers were mostly white men. A white flag of truce was displayed and the wagon train party was "escorted" out of the encampment "to safety", marched a short way, and then executed to make sure there were no credible witnesses. Only children younger than 7 years age were spared, all children older than that, as well as all men and children, were cold-bloodedly executed. Then their belongings were auctioned off. Do tell what was so different this time that justified all of this. It's ok we understand you're a baptist. Any error of fact in the description above? |
|
Quoted:
Because this guy. http:// http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/06/article-1204715-05F8B7B9000005DC-280_468x385.jpg And this guy. http:// http://media.salon.com/2014/04/joseph_smith.jpg Are the same! Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yet when any thread is started on this forum showing how made up and false your religion really is, you and other LDS will vehemently defend your said religion no matter how irrational and uneducated it makes you look because of "faith".
You do understand that you only add more fuel to the fire by doing so. If any LDS member or sympathizer would choose to not respond the thread would quickly go away. Since you feel so inclined to attempt to defend something that is not defensible you only drag your "faith" through the mud and you and others actions discredit it more and more. Nothing has been discredited except in your slanted view. I think it's hard for many to comprehend the amount of vitriol, ignorance, misunderstanding, out right lies, misinformation Mormons deal with from other faiths. I've heard it all of my life from atheists and especially mainstream Christians, some of which should be embarrassed to call themselves Christians. The truth is though it has simply forced me to find answers, either in holy writ, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, by prophetic and apostolic pronouncements and by the excellent work of Mormon scholars. I do not follow my faith blindly hoping no one will penetrate the cacoon of indoctrination and 'zing me with the truth'. I have questioned, sought, lived and see the wonderful logic and beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I can't speak for others but I answer these threads so as not to become a charricature in absentia. To correct the misinformation planted by people like yourself who have either a clear bias or clear ignorance. Because this guy. http:// http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/06/article-1204715-05F8B7B9000005DC-280_468x385.jpg And this guy. http:// http://media.salon.com/2014/04/joseph_smith.jpg Are the same! Nothing helps us more than the lunacy some of your anti-Mormon sources concoct to explain why a church that started with 6 members 175 years ago now has 14 million adherents. Why we continue to be one of the fastest growing religions in the world despite the fact that it is not easy to live by our tenants. My spouse and I were virgins when we married at 28, I've never had a drop of alcohol, and tithe 10 percent of my income. We're not the only christians who do this, but let's just say that are motivations for doing so go much deeper than 'cause our parents did'. Did you know that in my 35 years of going to church I've never once heard someone stand at our pulpit and vilify and debunk another faith? We don't have sections of book stores devoted to why other Christian religions are wrong, but you guys have that for us. You think you're doing the Lords work, I think you're like the Jews of old. You're modern day Pharisees condemning that which you don't understand and have not sought, determined as Gamaliel suggested in Acts 5 to possibly fight against God instead of 'letting it come to a thing of naught' if it be the work of men. |
|
Kinda late to the party aren't ya? Where you been? |
|
Quoted:
Nothing helps us more than the lunacy some of your anti-Mormon sources concoct to explain why a church that started with 6 members 175 years ago now has 14 million adherents. Why we continue to be one of the fastest growing religions in the world despite the fact that it is not easy to live by our tenants. My spouse and I were virgins when we married at 28, I've never had a drop of alcohol, and tithe 10 percent of my income. We're not the only christians who do this, but let's just say that are motivations for doing so go much deeper than 'cause our parents did'. Did you know that in my 35 years of going to church I've never once heard someone stand at our pulpit and vilify and debunk another faith? We don't have sections of book stores devoted to why other Christian religions are wrong, but you guys have that for us. You think you're doing the Lords work, I think you're like the Jews of old. You're modern day Pharisees condemning that which you don't understand and have not sought, determined as Gamaliel suggested in Acts 5 to possibly fight against God instead of 'letting it come to a thing of naught' if it be the work of men. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yet when any thread is started on this forum showing how made up and false your religion really is, you and other LDS will vehemently defend your said religion no matter how irrational and uneducated it makes you look because of "faith".
You do understand that you only add more fuel to the fire by doing so. If any LDS member or sympathizer would choose to not respond the thread would quickly go away. Since you feel so inclined to attempt to defend something that is not defensible you only drag your "faith" through the mud and you and others actions discredit it more and more. Nothing has been discredited except in your slanted view. I think it's hard for many to comprehend the amount of vitriol, ignorance, misunderstanding, out right lies, misinformation Mormons deal with from other faiths. I've heard it all of my life from atheists and especially mainstream Christians, some of which should be embarrassed to call themselves Christians. The truth is though it has simply forced me to find answers, either in holy writ, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, by prophetic and apostolic pronouncements and by the excellent work of Mormon scholars. I do not follow my faith blindly hoping no one will penetrate the cacoon of indoctrination and 'zing me with the truth'. I have questioned, sought, lived and see the wonderful logic and beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I can't speak for others but I answer these threads so as not to become a charricature in absentia. To correct the misinformation planted by people like yourself who have either a clear bias or clear ignorance. Because this guy. http:// http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/06/article-1204715-05F8B7B9000005DC-280_468x385.jpg And this guy. http:// http://media.salon.com/2014/04/joseph_smith.jpg Are the same! Nothing helps us more than the lunacy some of your anti-Mormon sources concoct to explain why a church that started with 6 members 175 years ago now has 14 million adherents. Why we continue to be one of the fastest growing religions in the world despite the fact that it is not easy to live by our tenants. My spouse and I were virgins when we married at 28, I've never had a drop of alcohol, and tithe 10 percent of my income. We're not the only christians who do this, but let's just say that are motivations for doing so go much deeper than 'cause our parents did'. Did you know that in my 35 years of going to church I've never once heard someone stand at our pulpit and vilify and debunk another faith? We don't have sections of book stores devoted to why other Christian religions are wrong, but you guys have that for us. You think you're doing the Lords work, I think you're like the Jews of old. You're modern day Pharisees condemning that which you don't understand and have not sought, determined as Gamaliel suggested in Acts 5 to possibly fight against God instead of 'letting it come to a thing of naught' if it be the work of men.
That's how cults work. Both men are the same? Explain how they are not. I generally think Mormonism is a good thing...even if it was made up. It is no different than Dianetics and Scientology. Don't confuse faith with the truth. BTW...when you weren't drinking and fucking, how many years did you spend on active duty? |
|
Quoted:
That's how cults work. Both men are the same? Explain how they are not. I generally think Mormonism is a good thing...even if it was made up. It is no different than Dianetics and Scientology. Don't confuse faith with the truth. BTW...when you weren't drinking and fucking, how many years did you spend on active duty? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yet when any thread is started on this forum showing how made up and false your religion really is, you and other LDS will vehemently defend your said religion no matter how irrational and uneducated it makes you look because of "faith".
You do understand that you only add more fuel to the fire by doing so. If any LDS member or sympathizer would choose to not respond the thread would quickly go away. Since you feel so inclined to attempt to defend something that is not defensible you only drag your "faith" through the mud and you and others actions discredit it more and more. Nothing has been discredited except in your slanted view. I think it's hard for many to comprehend the amount of vitriol, ignorance, misunderstanding, out right lies, misinformation Mormons deal with from other faiths. I've heard it all of my life from atheists and especially mainstream Christians, some of which should be embarrassed to call themselves Christians. The truth is though it has simply forced me to find answers, either in holy writ, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, by prophetic and apostolic pronouncements and by the excellent work of Mormon scholars. I do not follow my faith blindly hoping no one will penetrate the cacoon of indoctrination and 'zing me with the truth'. I have questioned, sought, lived and see the wonderful logic and beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I can't speak for others but I answer these threads so as not to become a charricature in absentia. To correct the misinformation planted by people like yourself who have either a clear bias or clear ignorance. Because this guy. http:// http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/06/article-1204715-05F8B7B9000005DC-280_468x385.jpg And this guy. http:// http://media.salon.com/2014/04/joseph_smith.jpg Are the same! Nothing helps us more than the lunacy some of your anti-Mormon sources concoct to explain why a church that started with 6 members 175 years ago now has 14 million adherents. Why we continue to be one of the fastest growing religions in the world despite the fact that it is not easy to live by our tenants. My spouse and I were virgins when we married at 28, I've never had a drop of alcohol, and tithe 10 percent of my income. We're not the only christians who do this, but let's just say that are motivations for doing so go much deeper than 'cause our parents did'. Did you know that in my 35 years of going to church I've never once heard someone stand at our pulpit and vilify and debunk another faith? We don't have sections of book stores devoted to why other Christian religions are wrong, but you guys have that for us. You think you're doing the Lords work, I think you're like the Jews of old. You're modern day Pharisees condemning that which you don't understand and have not sought, determined as Gamaliel suggested in Acts 5 to possibly fight against God instead of 'letting it come to a thing of naught' if it be the work of men.
That's how cults work. Both men are the same? Explain how they are not. I generally think Mormonism is a good thing...even if it was made up. It is no different than Dianetics and Scientology. Don't confuse faith with the truth. BTW...when you weren't drinking and fucking, how many years did you spend on active duty? A cult would be a group of people who worship a mortal person. Depending on how broadly you define that you could be describing many Christians including myself. We do not worship Joseph Smith as a diety, but revere him as a prophet like Moses or Isaiah. Don't confuse gross ignorance and lazy intellectual comparisons with truth. True faith, or the evidence of things not seen, can only be obtained as a gift from God usually given for acting on precepts of truth. Are you asking whether I served in the military as some sort of justification for why you chose to drink and have extra marital sex? Are you suggesting you were justified in these lifestyle choices because of the hardship you endured on active duty? My goal in stating the tenants I live by was not to be holier than thou but to illustrate that it is not easy to give those things up, and that despite that many people convert. I am full of sin, and in great need of the redeaming power of Christ's atonement and did not intend to suggest anything else. |
|
Quoted:
A cult would be a group of people who worship a mortal person. Depending on how broadly you define that you could be describing many Christians including myself. We do not worship Joseph Smith as a diety, but revere him as a prophet like Moses or Isaiah. Don't confuse gross ignorance and lazy intellectual comparisons with truth. True faith, or the evidence of things not seen, can only be obtained as a gift from God usually given for acting on precepts of truth. Are you asking whether I served in the military as some sort of justification for why you chose to drink and have extra marital sex? Are you suggesting you were justified in these lifestyle choices because of the hardship you endured on active duty? My goal in stating the tenants I live by was not to be holier than thou but to illustrate that it is not easy to give those things up, and that despite that many people convert. I am full of sin, and in great need of the redeaming power of Christ's atonement and did not intend to suggest anything else. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nothing has been discredited except in your slanted view. I think it's hard for many to comprehend the amount of vitriol, ignorance, misunderstanding, out right lies, misinformation Mormons deal with from other faiths. I've heard it all of my life from atheists and especially mainstream Christians, some of which should be embarrassed to call themselves Christians. The truth is though it has simply forced me to find answers, either in holy writ, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, by prophetic and apostolic pronouncements and by the excellent work of Mormon scholars. I do not follow my faith blindly hoping no one will penetrate the cacoon of indoctrination and 'zing me with the truth'. I have questioned, sought, lived and see the wonderful logic and beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I can't speak for others but I answer these threads so as not to become a charricature in absentia. To correct the misinformation planted by people like yourself who have either a clear bias or clear ignorance. Because this guy. http:// http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/06/article-1204715-05F8B7B9000005DC-280_468x385.jpg And this guy. http:// http://media.salon.com/2014/04/joseph_smith.jpg Are the same! Nothing helps us more than the lunacy some of your anti-Mormon sources concoct to explain why a church that started with 6 members 175 years ago now has 14 million adherents. Why we continue to be one of the fastest growing religions in the world despite the fact that it is not easy to live by our tenants. My spouse and I were virgins when we married at 28, I've never had a drop of alcohol, and tithe 10 percent of my income. We're not the only christians who do this, but let's just say that are motivations for doing so go much deeper than 'cause our parents did'. Did you know that in my 35 years of going to church I've never once heard someone stand at our pulpit and vilify and debunk another faith? We don't have sections of book stores devoted to why other Christian religions are wrong, but you guys have that for us. You think you're doing the Lords work, I think you're like the Jews of old. You're modern day Pharisees condemning that which you don't understand and have not sought, determined as Gamaliel suggested in Acts 5 to possibly fight against God instead of 'letting it come to a thing of naught' if it be the work of men.
That's how cults work. Both men are the same? Explain how they are not. I generally think Mormonism is a good thing...even if it was made up. It is no different than Dianetics and Scientology. Don't confuse faith with the truth. BTW...when you weren't drinking and fucking, how many years did you spend on active duty? A cult would be a group of people who worship a mortal person. Depending on how broadly you define that you could be describing many Christians including myself. We do not worship Joseph Smith as a diety, but revere him as a prophet like Moses or Isaiah. Don't confuse gross ignorance and lazy intellectual comparisons with truth. True faith, or the evidence of things not seen, can only be obtained as a gift from God usually given for acting on precepts of truth. Are you asking whether I served in the military as some sort of justification for why you chose to drink and have extra marital sex? Are you suggesting you were justified in these lifestyle choices because of the hardship you endured on active duty? My goal in stating the tenants I live by was not to be holier than thou but to illustrate that it is not easy to give those things up, and that despite that many people convert. I am full of sin, and in great need of the redeaming power of Christ's atonement and did not intend to suggest anything else. FYI.... A cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices. My Christian beliefs are not made up. We have over 2000 years of history....unlike this
|
|
Quoted:
This is a cop out. What about those who don't fit your overly simplistic categorization? I'm still waiting to hear how all religion is about control. Must be nice to live in a fantasy land where you can dismiss billions of people with two strokes of a brush. Quoted:
Quoted:
Basis of all morality you mean? The morality that says it's not right to punch you in the head for saying foolish things spawns laws made by men against assault. This is a bad thing? It's not fear of imaginary gods but the love of God that resides in the hearts of God fearing(respecting) people that allows a free people to live in harmony with each other. It is only as we've begun to lose that God given morality born of love that we've had to legislate and make laws against every selfish act. The less people love and believe in God the more laws will be necessary to cohabitate peacefully, until either we have no peace or we have no freedom. Surely you can see this.
I never said laws or morality was a bad thing I was only stating the how/why the concept of law originated. You say It's not fear of imaginary gods but the love of God that resides in the hearts of God fearing(respecting) people that allows a free people to live in harmony I assume you are speaking of only your God in this scenario? Religion has more to do with geography then belief based on facts. Most people have their religion decided before they are even born. This is a cop out. What about those who don't fit your overly simplistic categorization? I'm still waiting to hear how all religion is about control. Must be nice to live in a fantasy land where you can dismiss billions of people with two strokes of a brush. Not sure what you think i need to cop out for in the first place. I am not dismissing anything or anyone, I am saying one's religious belief is more about the geographical area they were born and their parents religion than anything else. Look there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, a 1 billion hindu and 2.2 billion Christians of different denominations. If you were born in Pakistan to Islamic parents there is a almost 100 percent chance you will adopt that faith and those values and believe completely in that doctrine. Same thing happens here in the states the religion just happens to be Christianity. Do you want to see control? look at the history of Islam or of the catholics and you will see ample examples of how the word of "god" has been used to enslave and control entire populations for centuries.. |
|
Quoted:
FYI.... A cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices. My Christian beliefs are not made up. We have over 2000 years of history....unlike this
http:// http://askgramps.org/files/2014/08/Joseph-Smith-using-a-hat.jpg When you consider that the early Christians were referred to as a "cult," the term is less repulsive. And an unintended back-handed compliment. We are watching the makings of personality cults constantly right now. Just turn on the TV. Interesting times we live in. Smith --per three different sources-- used several different methods for translating the Book of Mormon. One was a stone in the hat... I am LDS and have known about this since childhood... "Many accounts in the Bible show that God transmitted revelations to His prophets in a variety of ways. Elijah learned that God spoke not to him through the wind or fire or earthquake but through a “still small voice.” Paul and other early apostles sometimes communicated with angels and, on occasion, with the Lord Jesus Christ. At other times, revelation came in the form of dreams or visions, such as the revelation to Peter to preach the gospel to the Gentiles, or through sacred objects like the Urim and Thummim....Some people have balked at this claim of physical instruments used in the divine translation process, but such aids to facilitate the communication of God’s power and inspiration are consistent with accounts in scripture. In addition to the Urim and Thummim, the Bible mentions other physical instruments used to access God’s power: the rod of Aaron, a brass serpent, holy anointing oils, the Ark of the Covenant, and even dirt from the ground mixed with saliva to heal the eyes of a blind man." Link |
|
Quoted: FYI.... A cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices. My Christian beliefs are not made up. We have over 2000 years of history....unlike this http:// http://askgramps.org/files/2014/08/Joseph-Smith-using-a-hat.jpg Quoted: Because this guy. http:// http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/06/article-1204715-05F8B7B9000005DC-280_468x385.jpg And this guy. http:// http://media.salon.com/2014/04/joseph_smith.jpg Are the same! Nothing helps us more than the lunacy some of your anti-Mormon sources concoct to explain why a church that started with 6 members 175 years ago now has 14 million adherents. Why we continue to be one of the fastest growing religions in the world despite the fact that it is not easy to live by our tenants. My spouse and I were virgins when we married at 28, I've never had a drop of alcohol, and tithe 10 percent of my income. We're not the only christians who do this, but let's just say that are motivations for doing so go much deeper than 'cause our parents did'. Did you know that in my 35 years of going to church I've never once heard someone stand at our pulpit and vilify and debunk another faith? We don't have sections of book stores devoted to why other Christian religions are wrong, but you guys have that for us. You think you're doing the Lords work, I think you're like the Jews of old. You're modern day Pharisees condemning that which you don't understand and have not sought, determined as Gamaliel suggested in Acts 5 to possibly fight against God instead of 'letting it come to a thing of naught' if it be the work of men. That's how cults work. Both men are the same? Explain how they are not. I generally think Mormonism is a good thing...even if it was made up. It is no different than Dianetics and Scientology. Don't confuse faith with the truth. BTW...when you weren't drinking and fucking, how many years did you spend on active duty? A cult would be a group of people who worship a mortal person. Depending on how broadly you define that you could be describing many Christians including myself. We do not worship Joseph Smith as a diety, but revere him as a prophet like Moses or Isaiah. Don't confuse gross ignorance and lazy intellectual comparisons with truth. True faith, or the evidence of things not seen, can only be obtained as a gift from God usually given for acting on precepts of truth. Are you asking whether I served in the military as some sort of justification for why you chose to drink and have extra marital sex? Are you suggesting you were justified in these lifestyle choices because of the hardship you endured on active duty? My goal in stating the tenants I live by was not to be holier than thou but to illustrate that it is not easy to give those things up, and that despite that many people convert. I am full of sin, and in great need of the redeaming power of Christ's atonement and did not intend to suggest anything else. FYI.... A cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices. My Christian beliefs are not made up. We have over 2000 years of history....unlike this http:// http://askgramps.org/files/2014/08/Joseph-Smith-using-a-hat.jpg |
|
Quoted:
I was reading about the Mormon religion, and had a question. Founded by Joseph Smith, the faith drew its first converts while Smith was dictating the text of The Book of Mormon from golden plates which had reformed Egyptian writing on them which he said he found buried after being directed to their location by the Angel Moroni. The book described itself as a chronicle of early indigenous peoples of the Americas, known as the Nephites, portraying them as believing Israelites, who had a belief in Christ many hundred years before his birth. According to The Book of Mormon, the Nephites are one of four groups (including the Lamanites, Jaredites, and Mulekites) which settled in the ancient Americas. The Nephites are described as a group of people that descended from or were associated with Nephi, the son of the prophet Lehi, who left Jerusalem at the urging of God c. 600 BC and traveled with his family to the Western Hemisphere, arriving in the Americas c. 589 BC. Does this mean that Nephites became Native Americans, or what is supposed to have happened to these people? yes and no their were some tribes already in north America when the nephi and his family . arrived among them jeredites the book also states some built ships and sailed west. it is believed by many that these became the Polynesians and explains the high number of Tongans and somoans that are LDS. as far as your genetic research questions . we believe all most all are members of the scattered 11 tribes of Israel. and I would ignore the few minor differences and point out the massive similarities. |
|
did you miss the 12-14 ft redhaired giants killed in AFG http://fallenangels.ning.com/profiles/blogs/giants-and-us-military-confirmation-by-marine-undrgrnd-recon-lett |
|
Quoted:
Previous VP of sales at my company (my boss) is LDS. One of the most ethical and nice guys around. Loved asking us non LDS buddies questions too! For example, we were at a trade show in San Diego and kept going on about how good the Stone IPA was - he was fascinated that we were excited about a beer. He wanted to smell it, then was amazed at such variety they offered. To him beer was just beer. Cracked me up as his "straying" days were from college where he drank Snapple Peach Iced tea. Said it was awesome but had to stop. He's a great dude, would trust him with anything. This week, I'm working with the chief of police of a small town near Twin Falls, ID (consisting of 9 officers total, including him). His department has been "deputized" by the SO of Twin Falls Co. so if they need help, they can respond to calls inside Twin Falls city limits. One night, there's a "domestic in progress" in Twin Falls at some ungodly hour of the night/morning (he works graveyards), and he offered to assist in taking other calls in that city (about 15 miles from his town) while TF PD rounded up some officers to respond to the DV / armed suspect / hostage situation that was unfolding. One of the first calls he had was a noise complaint at one of the local motels. He showed up at the desk, was pointed in the right direction, and knocked on the door of the room. When it opened, he saw about 20 teenagers listening to loud music, with soda bottles laying around and a hooka that made the room smell like raspberries. He said he was looking for drugs, MJ, alcohol; something or another that was illegal, but the kids were all LDS and had rented a room to "party" with Mt. Dew and other sodas while they smoked raspberry smelling tobacco. He kicked them all out and told them to go home. One or two asked if they could take a bottle of Mt Dew home with them, lol. I guess they were going through their "rebellious" stage. No wonder LDS communities are so drama-free. |
|
Quoted:
Kinda like how two people can read the same Constitution, the same amendments and "come to mutually contradictory conclusions"? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it is truth because I've received the witness of the Holy Ghost that it is. I know it is true because I've lived by its precepts and have seen my life expand toward God. I get that just like the Jews of old you will reject the further words of God to man, the other witnesses of Christ, but asking me to do so is as preposterous as a Jewish person asking you to reject Christ. I will not do it, I already know it's true. Why faith is not a good way to truth. Multiple religions use faith and come to mutually contradictory conclusions. Kinda like how two people can read the same Constitution, the same amendments and "come to mutually contradictory conclusions"? Not really. We know (as much as it's possible to know) the Constitution exists. It would be more akin to one person saying A is the only way to Valhalla, while another says B is the only way (while condemning the A's), and they both believe this based on faith. One of them COULD be right, but because both of them use faith (as a method of getting to Truth) and come to mutually contradictory conclusions, it shows how faith isn't a good way to truth/Truth. |
|
Quoted: Not really. We know (as much as it's possible to know) the Constitution exists. It would be more akin to one person saying A is the only way to Valhalla, while another says B is the only way (while condemning the A's), and they both believe this based on faith. One of them COULD be right, but because both of them use faith (as a method of getting to Truth) and come to mutually contradictory conclusions, it shows how faith isn't a good way to truth/Truth. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I know it is truth because I've received the witness of the Holy Ghost that it is. I know it is true because I've lived by its precepts and have seen my life expand toward God. I get that just like the Jews of old you will reject the further words of God to man, the other witnesses of Christ, but asking me to do so is as preposterous as a Jewish person asking you to reject Christ. I will not do it, I already know it's true. Why faith is not a good way to truth. Multiple religions use faith and come to mutually contradictory conclusions. Kinda like how two people can read the same Constitution, the same amendments and "come to mutually contradictory conclusions"? Not really. We know (as much as it's possible to know) the Constitution exists. It would be more akin to one person saying A is the only way to Valhalla, while another says B is the only way (while condemning the A's), and they both believe this based on faith. One of them COULD be right, but because both of them use faith (as a method of getting to Truth) and come to mutually contradictory conclusions, it shows how faith isn't a good way to truth/Truth. Nope, it's exactly the same. One tangible document - can be an Old Testament, New Testament, US Constitution, Dr Seuss book, etc... you can have two people read the exact same thing and interpret it in multiple ways. For the example of the US Constitution, that's why we have a Judicial branch; they interpret it for us, the "correct" way. You don't have to agree with the judicial branch interpretation if you don't want to, but it will be the law of the land - and you will be subject to it, regardless. On the religious side, that's why there is a Prophet. Moses, Elijah, Jeremiah, Peter, etc... |
|
Quoted:
Nope, it's exactly the same. One tangible document - can be an Old Testament, New Testament, US Constitution, Dr Seuss book, etc... you can have two people read the exact same thing and interpret it in multiple ways. For the example of the US Constitution, that's why we have a Judicial branch; they interpret it for us, the "correct" way. You don't have to agree with the judicial branch interpretation if you don't want to, but it will be the law of the land - and you will be subject to it, regardless. On the religious side, that's why there is a Prophet. Moses, Elijah, Jeremiah, Peter, etc... Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know it is truth because I've received the witness of the Holy Ghost that it is. I know it is true because I've lived by its precepts and have seen my life expand toward God. I get that just like the Jews of old you will reject the further words of God to man, the other witnesses of Christ, but asking me to do so is as preposterous as a Jewish person asking you to reject Christ. I will not do it, I already know it's true. Why faith is not a good way to truth. Multiple religions use faith and come to mutually contradictory conclusions. Kinda like how two people can read the same Constitution, the same amendments and "come to mutually contradictory conclusions"? Not really. We know (as much as it's possible to know) the Constitution exists. It would be more akin to one person saying A is the only way to Valhalla, while another says B is the only way (while condemning the A's), and they both believe this based on faith. One of them COULD be right, but because both of them use faith (as a method of getting to Truth) and come to mutually contradictory conclusions, it shows how faith isn't a good way to truth/Truth. Nope, it's exactly the same. One tangible document - can be an Old Testament, New Testament, US Constitution, Dr Seuss book, etc... you can have two people read the exact same thing and interpret it in multiple ways. For the example of the US Constitution, that's why we have a Judicial branch; they interpret it for us, the "correct" way. You don't have to agree with the judicial branch interpretation if you don't want to, but it will be the law of the land - and you will be subject to it, regardless. On the religious side, that's why there is a Prophet. Moses, Elijah, Jeremiah, Peter, etc... Nobody seriously questions the existence of the Constitution. Different faiths directly dismiss the EXISTENCE of other Gods. Hinduism (with it's many Gods) directly contradicts Christianity (with it's insistence to one God). They both can't be right. Christianity (with Jesus as the only way to heaven) directly contradicts Islam., etc., etc., etc. These different claims based on faith DIRECTLY contradict the EXISTENCE of eachother. |
|
Quoted: Nobody seriously questions the existence of the Constitution. Different faiths directly dismiss the EXISTENCE of other Gods. Hinduism (with it's many Gods) directly contradicts Christianity (with it's insistence to one God). They both can't be right. Christianity (with Jesus as the only way to heaven) directly contradicts Islam., etc., etc., etc. These different claims based on faith DIRECTLY contradict the EXISTENCE of eachother. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why faith is not a good way to truth. Multiple religions use faith and come to mutually contradictory conclusions. Kinda like how two people can read the same Constitution, the same amendments and "come to mutually contradictory conclusions"? Not really. We know (as much as it's possible to know) the Constitution exists. It would be more akin to one person saying A is the only way to Valhalla, while another says B is the only way (while condemning the A's), and they both believe this based on faith. One of them COULD be right, but because both of them use faith (as a method of getting to Truth) and come to mutually contradictory conclusions, it shows how faith isn't a good way to truth/Truth. Nope, it's exactly the same. One tangible document - can be an Old Testament, New Testament, US Constitution, Dr Seuss book, etc... you can have two people read the exact same thing and interpret it in multiple ways. For the example of the US Constitution, that's why we have a Judicial branch; they interpret it for us, the "correct" way. You don't have to agree with the judicial branch interpretation if you don't want to, but it will be the law of the land - and you will be subject to it, regardless. On the religious side, that's why there is a Prophet. Moses, Elijah, Jeremiah, Peter, etc... Nobody seriously questions the existence of the Constitution. Different faiths directly dismiss the EXISTENCE of other Gods. Hinduism (with it's many Gods) directly contradicts Christianity (with it's insistence to one God). They both can't be right. Christianity (with Jesus as the only way to heaven) directly contradicts Islam., etc., etc., etc. These different claims based on faith DIRECTLY contradict the EXISTENCE of eachother. You're not seeing the analogy. No one seriously questions the existence of the Bible or the age of its writings either. From what I see, you're questioning what's contained within those writings in the Bible and the meaning/validity/truthfulness/interpretation of those writings - not the fact that the Bible exists or that it was written thousands of years ago. Just like others question the content of the Constitution and the interpretation of what's within it. |
|
Quoted:
LRRPF52, as a practicing mormon with little to no interest in recent mormon history (mormon history post the restoration), but with a passing interest in pre-historic / pre-"mormon" history, but with neither the time, the inclination or frankly the desire to research it, your posts are extremely informative and interesting relative to the pre-restoration history of the "mormon" church. takes some doing to get me much interested in history, and you have done so. So thanks for the posts and the effort in explaining your viewpoint. Arguing religion is often like arguing guns, everyone already has their mind made up and nothing you say or do will change it. That being said, it's interesting to learn some of the stuff you are sharing, and it helps answer some questions I'd had over time. Thanks for posting. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Dude those battles were suppose to have been fought by huge groups of men rocking swords not clubs. Battles that huge, with such high casualties archaeologists should be excavating them by the truck load. After a great battle, what do you do with enemy weapons and equipment if you are the victor. I don't know about you, but we always collected it and either destroyed it, or put it to use. Let's say you're a Lamanite warrior, captain, or general. You just finished slaughtering to the last man a Nephite army, battle-hardened guys with excellent armor (leather with copper plates attached), and cimeters, swords, etc. What do you do? A. Just leave it there for people to find or use against you. B. Collect it and use it for your own purposes. Now what happens from 400 A.D. to the 1500s? We're talking 1100 years of additional tribal fighting between the Lamanites, other invading armies from the South in Meso America, and then the corrosive nature of the Mississippi Valley. Have you ever carried a modern weapon in the woods down South, for example? I have, for many years. We're talking high-grade, modern steels now. No weapons maintenance with a healthy supply of oil? Rust bucket in a few days or even a night of rainfall on dry guns. Now think about 1100 years, and the fact that the Lamanites were more wild, liked to roam about a lot and feed off wild beasts in the field wearing loincloths, while the Nephites were more advanced with city-building, trade, manufacturing, cement-making, timber works, and shipping. What was the most common method of transportation of the Woodland Kingdom Native Americans? Canoes. You'll have to forgive the Lamanites for not continuing the same levels of tool-making that the Nephites had I guess. Read the book with an open mind and heart. You'll be a lot better informed and it might actually change your life in ways you never knew were possible. LRRPF52, as a practicing mormon with little to no interest in recent mormon history (mormon history post the restoration), but with a passing interest in pre-historic / pre-"mormon" history, but with neither the time, the inclination or frankly the desire to research it, your posts are extremely informative and interesting relative to the pre-restoration history of the "mormon" church. takes some doing to get me much interested in history, and you have done so. So thanks for the posts and the effort in explaining your viewpoint. Arguing religion is often like arguing guns, everyone already has their mind made up and nothing you say or do will change it. That being said, it's interesting to learn some of the stuff you are sharing, and it helps answer some questions I'd had over time. Thanks for posting. I agree, thanks for taking the time to post. Sometimes when ur sitting in sunday school or preisthood the words go in one ear and out the other, Reading it on ARFCOM helps it soak in a bit better. 
|
|
Quoted:
Uh, I hate to break it to you, but your Christian beliefs are just as made up as LDS beliefs. Neither are actual history, and despite what you consider "evidence" there is NONE. You just choose to interpret one set of religious dogma as fact and ridicule another. Winner, winner, chicken dinner! ... I would agree with you 100% ETA....I have never met a Mormon I did not like....except for that kangaroo kid that posts here. Not because he is a Mormon but because he is annoying.
|
|
Quoted:
When you consider that the early Christians were referred to as a "cult," the term is less repulsive. And an unintended back-handed compliment. We are watching the makings of personality cults constantly right now. Just turn on the TV. Interesting times we live in. Smith --per three different sources-- used several different methods for translating the Book of Mormon. One was a stone in the hat... I am LDS and have known about this since childhood... "Many accounts in the Bible show that God transmitted revelations to His prophets in a variety of ways. Elijah learned that God spoke not to him through the wind or fire or earthquake but through a “still small voice.” Paul and other early apostles sometimes communicated with angels and, on occasion, with the Lord Jesus Christ. At other times, revelation came in the form of dreams or visions, such as the revelation to Peter to preach the gospel to the Gentiles, or through sacred objects like the Urim and Thummim....Some people have balked at this claim of physical instruments used in the divine translation process, but such aids to facilitate the communication of God’s power and inspiration are consistent with accounts in scripture. In addition to the Urim and Thummim, the Bible mentions other physical instruments used to access God’s power: the rod of Aaron, a brass serpent, holy anointing oils, the Ark of the Covenant, and even dirt from the ground mixed with saliva to heal the eyes of a blind man." Link Quoted:
Quoted:
FYI.... A cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices. My Christian beliefs are not made up. We have over 2000 years of history....unlike this
http:// http://askgramps.org/files/2014/08/Joseph-Smith-using-a-hat.jpg When you consider that the early Christians were referred to as a "cult," the term is less repulsive. And an unintended back-handed compliment. We are watching the makings of personality cults constantly right now. Just turn on the TV. Interesting times we live in. Smith --per three different sources-- used several different methods for translating the Book of Mormon. One was a stone in the hat... I am LDS and have known about this since childhood... "Many accounts in the Bible show that God transmitted revelations to His prophets in a variety of ways. Elijah learned that God spoke not to him through the wind or fire or earthquake but through a “still small voice.” Paul and other early apostles sometimes communicated with angels and, on occasion, with the Lord Jesus Christ. At other times, revelation came in the form of dreams or visions, such as the revelation to Peter to preach the gospel to the Gentiles, or through sacred objects like the Urim and Thummim....Some people have balked at this claim of physical instruments used in the divine translation process, but such aids to facilitate the communication of God’s power and inspiration are consistent with accounts in scripture. In addition to the Urim and Thummim, the Bible mentions other physical instruments used to access God’s power: the rod of Aaron, a brass serpent, holy anointing oils, the Ark of the Covenant, and even dirt from the ground mixed with saliva to heal the eyes of a blind man." Link 
|
|
Quoted:
Because this guy. http:// http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/06/article-1204715-05F8B7B9000005DC-280_468x385.jpg And this guy. http:// http://media.salon.com/2014/04/joseph_smith.jpg Are the same! Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yet when any thread is started on this forum showing how made up and false your religion really is, you and other LDS will vehemently defend your said religion no matter how irrational and uneducated it makes you look because of "faith".
You do understand that you only add more fuel to the fire by doing so. If any LDS member or sympathizer would choose to not respond the thread would quickly go away. Since you feel so inclined to attempt to defend something that is not defensible you only drag your "faith" through the mud and you and others actions discredit it more and more. Nothing has been discredited except in your slanted view. I think it's hard for many to comprehend the amount of vitriol, ignorance, misunderstanding, out right lies, misinformation Mormons deal with from other faiths. I've heard it all of my life from atheists and especially mainstream Christians, some of which should be embarrassed to call themselves Christians. The truth is though it has simply forced me to find answers, either in holy writ, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, by prophetic and apostolic pronouncements and by the excellent work of Mormon scholars. I do not follow my faith blindly hoping no one will penetrate the cacoon of indoctrination and 'zing me with the truth'. I have questioned, sought, lived and see the wonderful logic and beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I can't speak for others but I answer these threads so as not to become a charricature in absentia. To correct the misinformation planted by people like yourself who have either a clear bias or clear ignorance. Because this guy. http:// http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/06/article-1204715-05F8B7B9000005DC-280_468x385.jpg And this guy. http:// http://media.salon.com/2014/04/joseph_smith.jpg Are the same! HAHAHA, put down ur crack pipe! 
|
|
Quoted:
HAHAHA, put down ur crack pipe! Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yet when any thread is started on this forum showing how made up and false your religion really is, you and other LDS will vehemently defend your said religion no matter how irrational and uneducated it makes you look because of "faith".
You do understand that you only add more fuel to the fire by doing so. If any LDS member or sympathizer would choose to not respond the thread would quickly go away. Since you feel so inclined to attempt to defend something that is not defensible you only drag your "faith" through the mud and you and others actions discredit it more and more. Nothing has been discredited except in your slanted view. I think it's hard for many to comprehend the amount of vitriol, ignorance, misunderstanding, out right lies, misinformation Mormons deal with from other faiths. I've heard it all of my life from atheists and especially mainstream Christians, some of which should be embarrassed to call themselves Christians. The truth is though it has simply forced me to find answers, either in holy writ, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, by prophetic and apostolic pronouncements and by the excellent work of Mormon scholars. I do not follow my faith blindly hoping no one will penetrate the cacoon of indoctrination and 'zing me with the truth'. I have questioned, sought, lived and see the wonderful logic and beauty of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I can't speak for others but I answer these threads so as not to become a charricature in absentia. To correct the misinformation planted by people like yourself who have either a clear bias or clear ignorance. Because this guy. http:// http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/08/06/article-1204715-05F8B7B9000005DC-280_468x385.jpg And this guy. http:// http://media.salon.com/2014/04/joseph_smith.jpg Are the same! HAHAHA, put down ur crack pipe! It's uncanny....don't forget this guy. 
|
|
Quoted:
You're not seeing the analogy. No one seriously questions the existence of the Bible or the age of its writings either. From what I see, you're questioning what's contained within those writings in the Bible and the meaning/validity/truthfulness/interpretation of those writings - not the fact that the Bible exists or that it was written thousands of years ago. Just like others question the content of the Constitution and the interpretation of what's within it. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nope, it's exactly the same. One tangible document - can be an Old Testament, New Testament, US Constitution, Dr Seuss book, etc... you can have two people read the exact same thing and interpret it in multiple ways. For the example of the US Constitution, that's why we have a Judicial branch; they interpret it for us, the "correct" way. You don't have to agree with the judicial branch interpretation if you don't want to, but it will be the law of the land - and you will be subject to it, regardless. On the religious side, that's why there is a Prophet. Moses, Elijah, Jeremiah, Peter, etc... Nobody seriously questions the existence of the Constitution. Different faiths directly dismiss the EXISTENCE of other Gods. Hinduism (with it's many Gods) directly contradicts Christianity (with it's insistence to one God). They both can't be right. Christianity (with Jesus as the only way to heaven) directly contradicts Islam., etc., etc., etc. These different claims based on faith DIRECTLY contradict the EXISTENCE of eachother. You're not seeing the analogy. No one seriously questions the existence of the Bible or the age of its writings either. From what I see, you're questioning what's contained within those writings in the Bible and the meaning/validity/truthfulness/interpretation of those writings - not the fact that the Bible exists or that it was written thousands of years ago. Just like others question the content of the Constitution and the interpretation of what's within it. Yeah, I'm not seeing the analogy. People may interpret different things in the Constitution, but they're not saying the other thing doesn't exist as a thing. Jesus as God absolutely negates Vishnu as a God. Vishnu and Krishna as God(s) negates literal-monotheism. When people interpret the Constitution, they're not saying that the opposite interpretation doesn't exist as a thing at all (even outside the Constitution). An interpretation is an interpretation. They all exist as things (even if they may not apply to the Constitution). All the God(s)(esses) that people have simply can't co-exist with their current interpretations. One or more of the God(s)(esses) people have may in fact be true. The thing is you can't really use faith to determine which one is in fact true. Faith is not a good way to truth. |
|
Quoted:
Can man become a God (like the Doctrine and Covenants says)? was God once a man? Did Joseph Smith get "sealed" to already-"sealed"/married women? Probably. Don't care. |
|
Quoted:
I dunno. How do Jews, Christians, and Muslims deal with the inconvenient genetic research discrepancies in the story of Adam and Eve? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm sure somebody more studious, devout, whatever than I am will chime in, but the short answer to your question is yes. In the Book of Mormon the Lamanites essentially wipe out the Nephites. The Book of Mormon ends around 400AD and it is a commonly held belief amongst Mormons that Native Americans are descendents from the Lamanites. Having said that, I think I've read that genetic research has disproven that a bit and claims Native Americans are not of Middle Eastern descent (i.e. Israelites). Interesting. How do mormon's deal with the inconvenient genetic research discrepencies? I dunno. How do Jews, Christians, and Muslims deal with the inconvenient genetic research discrepancies in the story of Adam and Eve? Probably one of the more illuminating posts. If you honestly don't think your beliefs are true (when you introspect on them objectively), then it's little more than a social organization. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been kind enough to address the topic itself. https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng Don't forget this documentary on the subject. youtu.be/3HSlbuli7HM
|
|
Quoted:
Well one thing is for sure. Ain't none of getting out of here alive. Jesus didn't do it it the first try. One day we will be dead, or on the other side of something. Until then we have to go with what we think best. I'll stay Mormon.  This guy would agree! 
|
|
Quoted:
I have a question I've always wondered about. What is it about the Mormon faith that most members are into guns and prepping? The church has always stressed preparedness. The current standard is to have 1 year food storage. However it is possible to go overboard in the churches eyes. |
|
Quoted:
I have a question I've always wondered about. What is it about the Mormon faith that most members are into guns and prepping? Being prepared, spiritually and temporally, is taught and heavily encouraged for members. https://www.lds.org/topics/emergency-preparedness?lang=eng https://providentliving.lds.org/?lang=eng Now as far as firearms are concerned, the Church leadership has been very careful and generally steered clear of the topic due to the international nature of the Church and the desire to avoid giving governments the impression that the Church is building up militias. At the local level, especially around Utah, people who understand the Constitution, US history, and the history of the LDS tend to appreciate the importance of firearms. |