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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:33:36 PM EST
[#1]
Quoted: Other than the guy that lost his cat in the dishwasher, I've never seen anyone here make fun of someone losing a pet, that post is BS. So you didn’t read the first page of this thread? |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:35:12 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the best post of this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: *photo of literal supermodel* GD- “gross.. she has a freckle on her forearm.” *BOTD photo of Mississippi 2* GD- “Thanks for posting bro, she’s a stunner!” *person upset over their pet dying* GD- “LoL fuckin’ crybaby Zoomer… America is dead.” *Arfcommer: My old dog died and I’m struggling to cope* GD- “Prayers sent. Love you, bro! It’s never easy!” This is the best post of this thread. 100% spot on portrayal of GD. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:38:12 PM EST
[#3]
I had an employee ask for 2hr lunchbreaks so she could "walk her rescue bunny".
Had another employee try to use sick leave because his dog had the shits. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:38:45 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In all fairness, they could have been close to the kittah, and that could be devastating to some. Also, I suspect they'll need to take the body to a vet for cremation or similar. I know these comments won't go over well in GD.  |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:39:37 PM EST
[#5]
I get it to an extent. I took an afternoon off when my older rescue cat got some bad news out of surgery and the more humane choice was to let him go peacefully. Sat with him for a while and held him up in a nice sunny window to send him off. I wouldn't expect bereavement time for it, especially not for days after, but it's not unreasonable to take some time off to do what you can for your pet.
Realistically with Gen Z too they might be young enough that it's something like the family pet they grew up with. I'm not making excuses for this particular guy and have no way of knowing but I think I'd understand a little more if this was your furry companion for as long as you can remember. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:41:02 PM EST
[#6]
Quoted: Person already has attendance issues and missed two days leading into this text. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/23831/IMG_0884_jpeg-2928627.JPG Facepalm. ????? Meh if my cats passed away, I'd take an unexcused absence...but I don't have a history of missing work though. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:41:27 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Threads on here about seeing the Barbie movie, T Swift, and talking about your feelings with your buddies. Not sure what is going on, but I think it's all related. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A guy sent that? Threads on here about seeing the Barbie movie, T Swift, and talking about your feelings with your buddies. Not sure what is going on, but I think it's all related. I’m 66% of that problem, and if I had an employee who had a close pet die I’d absolute have no problem giving them a few days to handle their shit and get to a better place. Imagine working for a place that doesn’t give a shit about you or events happening in your life. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:48:12 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you didn’t read the first page of this thread? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Other than the guy that lost his cat in the dishwasher, I've never seen anyone here make fun of someone losing a pet, that post is BS. So you didn’t read the first page of this thread? I read it. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:50:01 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This type of post is so retarded GD IS MORE THAN ONE PERSON  GD: *posts accurate GD reference* GD: REEEEE THAT'S NOT ACCURATE I'M THE SPECIAL GD'ER |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:50:53 PM EST
[#10]
I wouldn't have a problem with people taking time off for a pet passing away provided they have PTO or can make up the time in the near future.
If people are habitual non-attendees, use up PTO while still expecting time off, and general under performers then get rid of them. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:52:27 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If this popped up right after two days of unexcused absences, I would be heavily leaning towards calling bullshit, because it sounds like the type of thing assholes would make up to make the boss the bad guy. Of course I don't know this kid, so maybe he's not the type. But OP was talking about a PIP for attendance problems before the cat came into the conversation, so it's pretty hard for me not to suspect that. But what do I know, I come into work reliably so I have zero issues when taking days for things like this. Maybe the prior days were him trying to take care of the cat that was about to die? |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:54:56 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: *photo of literal supermodel* GD- “gross.. she has a freckle on her forearm.” *BOTD photo of Mississippi 2* GD- “Thanks for posting bro, she’s a stunner!” *person upset over their pet dying* GD- “LoL fuckin’ crybaby Zoomer… America is dead.” *Arfcommer: My old dog died and I’m struggling to cope* GD- “Prayers sent. Love you, bro! It’s never easy!” This is why I'm never in BOTD. I'd be banned so fast it would make your head spin, and I consider myself a pretty nice guy
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:55:17 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When my cat died, my boss was chill with me taking the day off. Dude's pet died, give him a break. If this post was about a boomer and his dog everyone would have a different opinion. Boomer would either own the company or have so much accrued time off he wouldn't worry about not coming in. When I retired from my last position I had two months paid vacation and four months sick time . |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:55:34 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This type of post is so retarded GD IS MORE THAN ONE PERSON Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: *photo of literal supermodel* GD- “gross.. she has a freckle on her forearm.” *BOTD photo of Mississippi 2* GD- “Thanks for posting bro, she’s a stunner!” *person upset over their pet dying* GD- “LoL fuckin’ crybaby Zoomer… America is dead.” *Arfcommer: My old dog died and I’m struggling to cope* GD- “Prayers sent. Love you, bro! It’s never easy!” This type of post is so retarded GD IS MORE THAN ONE PERSON But overall accurate. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:55:54 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like, nocall / no show attendance? Otherwise, I give 9 paid sick days a year. And (this employee) has 3 weeks paid vacation. He can take them when he wants. But no, this employee is younger however is an amazing worker. And since, I too, have Cats, he was asking me about medical advice for it / vet advice for it, for a while. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fucking that's why people don't want to work for you... JFC, give the guy a sick day. Move on. This literally just happened to one of my employees. He called off, it was fine. We moved on in life. No big fucking deal. Did said employee already have a history of attendance issues? Like, nocall / no show attendance? Otherwise, I give 9 paid sick days a year. And (this employee) has 3 weeks paid vacation. He can take them when he wants. But no, this employee is younger however is an amazing worker. And since, I too, have Cats, he was asking me about medical advice for it / vet advice for it, for a while. Yeah. No call/no show or other attendance issues. Sounds like your employee is really quite different than the one OP is dealing with. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:56:18 PM EST
[#16]
I'm a 49yo gen x and me and the wife have 9 cats, amd I guarantee you that if any one of them died unexpectedly, I would not be into work the next day.
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:57:27 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fucking that's why people don't want to work for you... JFC, give the guy a sick day. Move on. This literally just happened to one of my employees. He called off, it was fine. We moved on in life. No big fucking deal. The guy already fucked off enough get himself on an attendance plan. For 87% of workers, the above would absolutely hold true. Buddy has called out enough/came in late too many times to dig himself into a fairly deep hole. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 7:59:35 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It sounds like they would have counted it against him either way, and OP tacked on this particular employee's prior absences as a reason to validate ridiculing him for missing work over the cat dying. I've worked a McWagie corporate job before, and all of those policies are standardized. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The vast majority of employers will either look the other way or be fine with someone missing time due to something like this. UNLESS, they already have a history of attendance issues. Not only does the guy have said history of attendance issues but he has JUST missed two days already recently. Most employers are willing to at least give the appearance of caring about their workforce and investing in them through time-off. But, when an employee doesn't reciprocate and take their job seriously then the letter of the law is going to be enforced. Just how it works. I definitely don't agree with ridiculing the guy. As I said in another post, he should've been more professional, spoke to HR, and then relayed that although he's very sorry for the employee's loss that their bereavement policy doesn't cover pets. I think there's a deeper issue with this employee, as evidenced by the fact he was ALREADY going to be put on a PIP due to attendance issues, so I don't agree that they're unfairly holding the cat's death against the employee. If you have destroyed all benefit of the doubt, an employer is going to be more skeptical of you than an employee who doesn't have that same history. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:00:44 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe the prior days were him trying to take care of the cat that was about to die? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If this popped up right after two days of unexcused absences, I would be heavily leaning towards calling bullshit, because it sounds like the type of thing assholes would make up to make the boss the bad guy. Of course I don't know this kid, so maybe he's not the type. But OP was talking about a PIP for attendance problems before the cat came into the conversation, so it's pretty hard for me not to suspect that. But what do I know, I come into work reliably so I have zero issues when taking days for things like this. Maybe the prior days were him trying to take care of the cat that was about to die? That is why a lot of places have rigid attendance policies and points for missed time. No middle ground where people negotiate extra time off. Of course, that leads to people getting on FMLA then play the game of taking time off when they don't feel like coming to work even if its not within their FMLA guidelines. Seen more than a few people get fired for abusing that. Somehow people can't help themselves posting to Facebook doing stupid shit or being seen around town. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:01:38 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no issues with someone needing a day off for a pet that passed. However , when you have had issues before with attendance and other things it gets a bit much when you need even more time off than the two days you already took. This is reasonable. I needed a day to put my cat down and dig his grave, but I'm a reliable employee and have earned a lot of slack. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:03:00 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't mean I don't care about their well being. I mean that's no longer a valid excuse because of excessive absences. And honestly, I wouldn't believe it at that point. People that miss work always have excuses. Every time. I'd guess the past days missed also came with excuses. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If he's already missed time, including 2 days shortly before this, then no, he better bring the dead cat in for proof. Should have been, but these days everyone sues so HR hands out chances. Why do we believe that his cat died and this isn't just an excuse for missing more work? Also, at some point, you just don't get any more. You missed days unexcused and other people had to cover for you. Now I don't care about your cat. I was with you until you said you don't care. I would still care about the cat and hope my co-worker is doing OK, but I also would be honest with him as OP was that his prior history makes another missed day an issue. Would've been a tad more professional and stated I checked with HR and unfortunately we do not currently offer bereavement leave for pets but I'm very sorry for your loss. I don't mean I don't care about their well being. I mean that's no longer a valid excuse because of excessive absences. And honestly, I wouldn't believe it at that point. People that miss work always have excuses. Every time. I'd guess the past days missed also came with excuses. Fair enough. I tend to agree that's what is happening in this situation. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:04:15 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine working for a place that doesn't give a shit about you or events happening in your life. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:07:33 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is why a lot of places have rigid attendance policies and points for missed time. No middle ground where people negotiate extra time off. Of course, that leads to people getting on FMLA then play the game of taking time off when they don't feel like coming to work even if its not within their FMLA guidelines. Seen more than a few people get fired for abusing that. Somehow people can't help themselves posting to Facebook doing stupid shit or being seen around town. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If this popped up right after two days of unexcused absences, I would be heavily leaning towards calling bullshit, because it sounds like the type of thing assholes would make up to make the boss the bad guy. Of course I don't know this kid, so maybe he's not the type. But OP was talking about a PIP for attendance problems before the cat came into the conversation, so it's pretty hard for me not to suspect that. But what do I know, I come into work reliably so I have zero issues when taking days for things like this. Maybe the prior days were him trying to take care of the cat that was about to die? That is why a lot of places have rigid attendance policies and points for missed time. No middle ground where people negotiate extra time off. Of course, that leads to people getting on FMLA then play the game of taking time off when they don't feel like coming to work even if its not within their FMLA guidelines. Seen more than a few people get fired for abusing that. Somehow people can't help themselves posting to Facebook doing stupid shit or being seen around town. Meh most of that shit is stupid. Especially when we’re talking about hourly versus salary. If it’s a good reason to leave work, it’s a good reason, whether or not the employee is your top performer or someone who is on the outs. My ethics and morals are not grounded in the framework of the Human Resources departments. It might be good for the bottom line but it’s a miserable way to live and even worse for community. If someone’s a lying fuckup, they should be fired for being a lying fuckup, not be ran out the door to some nonsense “PIP” plan designed to minimize blowback and liability on the company while they push them out the door. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:11:05 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sick day? Sure, but only IF you have any to spare. If you're a shitbag who's used all his regular and sick leave, sorry no can do or PIP. "Bereavement leave" which means more than one fucking day? GTFO with that bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fucking that's why people don't want to work for you... JFC, give the guy a sick day. Move on. This literally just happened to one of my employees. He called off, it was fine. We moved on in life. No big fucking deal. Sick day? Sure, but only IF you have any to spare. If you're a shitbag who's used all his regular and sick leave, sorry no can do or PIP. "Bereavement leave" which means more than one fucking day? GTFO with that bullshit. That again has nothing to do with the cat. The excuse could be my can of coke fell over. And I can’t make it to work. Sorry. A shit bag will always be a shit bag. Treat them accordingly. But in the case of someone’s pet dying, I’ll give them slack. So far, a lot of people like working for me. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:13:00 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The guy already fucked off enough get himself on an attendance plan. For 87% of workers, the above would absolutely hold true. Buddy has called out enough/came in late too many times to dig himself into a fairly deep hole. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fucking that's why people don't want to work for you... JFC, give the guy a sick day. Move on. This literally just happened to one of my employees. He called off, it was fine. We moved on in life. No big fucking deal. The guy already fucked off enough get himself on an attendance plan. For 87% of workers, the above would absolutely hold true. Buddy has called out enough/came in late too many times to dig himself into a fairly deep hole. Well, maybe I’m overly forgiving. So be it. But, I’m at full staff. And it’s a trucking company. And I have about ~300 employees between all the companies and divisions. So… I’m pretty happy with my management decisions. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:14:11 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When my cat died, my boss was chill with me taking the day off. Dude's pet died, give him a break. If this post was about a boomer and his dog everyone would have a different opinion. It’s a cat. They will make more. I love my dog, but when his time comes, his time comes like anyone else. We give pets a MUCH better life than they would have in nature for our own selfish enjoyment of them. They get a great deal, but all things end. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:14:19 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: America's labor customs are very dehumanizing, and I don't understand it. It's another contradiction of that individualism thing I hear about all the time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Imagine working for a place that doesn't give a shit about you or events happening in your life. All a downstream consequence of Rockefeller and the Prussian model. Makes sense for docile factory workers, but adopting it across the board has societal wide impacts that extend past where most people think to look. I’ve had the benefit of working for some of the most impressive and caring owners of companies that one could imagine. The trait they all shared was an emphasis on family first, whether or not it put the company in the bind or not. Thusly, they were rewarded with a very deep and strong sense of loyalty, where employees wouldn’t leave even for better offers, and would stick around through the bad times. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:15:35 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did said employee already have a history of attendance issues? I mean, it says so in the OP and there's no edit, so how did you miss that? |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:19:25 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: but it is. His attendance issues aside, the point of the thread was the cat. Even if he didn't have attendance issues, would the OP still have made this thread? I can't confidently say that he wouldn't have. I think everybody has dealt with employees that don't like showing up and nobody's going up to bat for him from that angle. I've had to make firing decisions before, but a dead pet would never be the straw that broke the camel's back. More often than not, I was able to solve attendance problems just by leading by example instead of going scorched earth, but that's an entirely separate discussion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The cat dying isn't a part of this thread. I think the two previous days the guy missed were the straw that broke the camel's back that was going to lead to the PIP. Agree the cat is largely irrelevant other than OP should've explained professionally we don't have bereavement for pets, however, if he has PTO available he is welcome to use it. But, I will also add, again, that if the guy didn't have attendance issues I bet he would've received a different response in the first place. I think bringing the cat into the situation, unless the prior absences were related to the cat's health, just muddied the water. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:19:49 PM EST
[#30]
PIP?
How about your fired? |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:20:19 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is why a lot of places have rigid attendance policies and points for missed time. No middle ground where people negotiate extra time off. Of course, that leads to people getting on FMLA then play the game of taking time off when they don't feel like coming to work even if it’s not within their FMLA guidelines. Seen more than a few people get fired for abusing that. Somehow people can't help themselves posting to Facebook doing stupid shit or being seen around town. I worked for a large, ummm, how do I say it, a delivery service. My wife’s father was very sick and wasn’t expected to last but a few days. He lived about 8 hours out of Saigon and a large part of the siblings in America were hustling up a trip. Our son, which was about 8yo at the time required me to apply for FMLA for 2 weeks as it’s a long trip. I apply and given “tentative approval”. When I return to work they hand me a decline notice for the FMLA. They do this to prevent abuse. But get this. They required a written notice from a medical professional about his condition. My wife, who is Vietnamese, says they don’t do that sort of thing over there, She was able to get a quasi caretaker to write out his condition in Vietnamese as he didn’t speak English. They sent it back and said they wouldn’t accept it because it wasn’t in English. A company that employees 100’s of thousands of people around the world has no one to interpret. oK He did pass away while they were there. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:20:43 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh most of that shit is stupid. Especially when we're talking about hourly versus salary. If it's a good reason to leave work, it's a good reason, whether or not the employee is your top performer or someone who is on the outs. My ethics and morals are not grounded in the framework of the Human Resources departments. It might be good for the bottom line but it's a miserable way to live and even worse for community. If someone's a lying fuckup, they should be fired for being a lying fuckup, not be ran out the door to some nonsense "PIP" plan designed to minimize blowback and liability on the company while they push them out the door. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If this popped up right after two days of unexcused absences, I would be heavily leaning towards calling bullshit, because it sounds like the type of thing assholes would make up to make the boss the bad guy. Of course I don't know this kid, so maybe he's not the type. But OP was talking about a PIP for attendance problems before the cat came into the conversation, so it's pretty hard for me not to suspect that. But what do I know, I come into work reliably so I have zero issues when taking days for things like this. Maybe the prior days were him trying to take care of the cat that was about to die? That is why a lot of places have rigid attendance policies and points for missed time. No middle ground where people negotiate extra time off. Of course, that leads to people getting on FMLA then play the game of taking time off when they don't feel like coming to work even if its not within their FMLA guidelines. Seen more than a few people get fired for abusing that. Somehow people can't help themselves posting to Facebook doing stupid shit or being seen around town. Meh most of that shit is stupid. Especially when we're talking about hourly versus salary. If it's a good reason to leave work, it's a good reason, whether or not the employee is your top performer or someone who is on the outs. My ethics and morals are not grounded in the framework of the Human Resources departments. It might be good for the bottom line but it's a miserable way to live and even worse for community. If someone's a lying fuckup, they should be fired for being a lying fuckup, not be ran out the door to some nonsense "PIP" plan designed to minimize blowback and liability on the company while they push them out the door. Oh I think generous PTO plans are good but at some point you have to the draw a line where everyone is on the same page. PIP plans are just another method to document firing for cause so they can't come back later and claim harassment or some other shit out of the blue. Thank lawyers. Managers would fire them first if they could for being 'a lying fuckup'. A lying POS will just as easily lie while being employed as unemployed. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:29:29 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe the prior days were him trying to take care of the cat that was about to die? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If this popped up right after two days of unexcused absences, I would be heavily leaning towards calling bullshit, because it sounds like the type of thing assholes would make up to make the boss the bad guy. Of course I don't know this kid, so maybe he's not the type. But OP was talking about a PIP for attendance problems before the cat came into the conversation, so it's pretty hard for me not to suspect that. But what do I know, I come into work reliably so I have zero issues when taking days for things like this. Maybe the prior days were him trying to take care of the cat that was about to die? Good point that no one else has raised. OP, why did the employee not show for the two previous days? |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:30:47 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Personal Improvement Plan It is a written plan to correct behavior before firing an employee. Our company now calls these PSPs. Personal Success Plans. Sad but true. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:32:11 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, it says so in the OP and there's no edit, so how did you miss that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did said employee already have a history of attendance issues? I mean, it says so in the OP and there's no edit, so how did you miss that? How did you miss I was talking to Foxtrot about HIS employee not the OP's employee? |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:32:50 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All a downstream consequence of Rockefeller and the Prussian model. Makes sense for docile factory workers, but adopting it across the board has societal wide impacts that extend past where most people think to look. I've had the benefit of working for some of the most impressive and caring owners of companies that one could imagine. The trait they all shared was an emphasis on family first, whether or not it put the company in the bind or not. Thusly, they were rewarded with a very deep and strong sense of loyalty, where employees wouldn't leave even for better offers, and would stick around through the bad times. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:35:20 PM EST
[#37]
OP might be wrong
Pet bereavement isn’t unheard of |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:36:14 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh I think generous PTO plans are good but at some point you have to the draw a line where everyone is on the same page. PIP plans are just another method to document firing for cause so they can't come back later and claim harassment or some other shit out of the blue. Thank lawyers. Managers would fire them first if they could for being 'a lying fuckup'. A lying POS will just as easily lie while being employed as unemployed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If this popped up right after two days of unexcused absences, I would be heavily leaning towards calling bullshit, because it sounds like the type of thing assholes would make up to make the boss the bad guy. Of course I don't know this kid, so maybe he's not the type. But OP was talking about a PIP for attendance problems before the cat came into the conversation, so it's pretty hard for me not to suspect that. But what do I know, I come into work reliably so I have zero issues when taking days for things like this. Maybe the prior days were him trying to take care of the cat that was about to die? That is why a lot of places have rigid attendance policies and points for missed time. No middle ground where people negotiate extra time off. Of course, that leads to people getting on FMLA then play the game of taking time off when they don't feel like coming to work even if its not within their FMLA guidelines. Seen more than a few people get fired for abusing that. Somehow people can't help themselves posting to Facebook doing stupid shit or being seen around town. Meh most of that shit is stupid. Especially when we're talking about hourly versus salary. If it's a good reason to leave work, it's a good reason, whether or not the employee is your top performer or someone who is on the outs. My ethics and morals are not grounded in the framework of the Human Resources departments. It might be good for the bottom line but it's a miserable way to live and even worse for community. If someone's a lying fuckup, they should be fired for being a lying fuckup, not be ran out the door to some nonsense "PIP" plan designed to minimize blowback and liability on the company while they push them out the door. Oh I think generous PTO plans are good but at some point you have to the draw a line where everyone is on the same page. PIP plans are just another method to document firing for cause so they can't come back later and claim harassment or some other shit out of the blue. Thank lawyers. Managers would fire them first if they could for being 'a lying fuckup'. A lying POS will just as easily lie while being employed as unemployed. Yeah it’s always a balancing act. My current position has grown into if you’re looking for downstream reasons to discipline an employee, it’s likely because you didn’t start with something more serious earlier. Most of the “rules” that And completely understand the reason for the PIP stuff. There are always those shitbags. But most of what I’ve seen or heard of is typically employers letting shit go way to far, or never having set their employees up for success in the first place. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:43:22 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah basically. You still see it in small business and small corporations, but many large corporations are so bad that I'd argue that they played a pivotal role in the destruction of our culture. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All a downstream consequence of Rockefeller and the Prussian model. Makes sense for docile factory workers, but adopting it across the board has societal wide impacts that extend past where most people think to look. I've had the benefit of working for some of the most impressive and caring owners of companies that one could imagine. The trait they all shared was an emphasis on family first, whether or not it put the company in the bind or not. Thusly, they were rewarded with a very deep and strong sense of loyalty, where employees wouldn't leave even for better offers, and would stick around through the bad times. Agreed. But it’s the reality of hyper-scaling of business. To suit growth needs (of both employee and shareholder value), you have to create systems where employees not only function as interchangeable cogs with redundancy, but the systems themselves overlap to eliminate the leverage employees might otherwise have. Where this typically fails, is when smaller (relatively) businesses or corporations try to implement these immaculate systems that the large successful companies have without understanding the give and take, which manufactures the most toxic environments imaginable. Systems create a boundary not only for the employee, but for the employer as well. Mom and pop operations will take all the parts that restrict the employee without the corresponding restrictions it takes on the employer. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:44:08 PM EST
[#40]
I feel bad for them, but I went to work after finding my dog dead in the kitchen
10hour shift Then came home and dug a hole in the backyard in the rain like an Eminem song. My family needed me to be a provider and solid employee more than I needed to grieve a companion passing I don’t manage people so I guess my opinion is irrelevant |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 8:48:38 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh I think generous PTO plans are good but at some point you have to the draw a line where everyone is on the same page. PIP plans are just another method to document firing for cause so they can't come back later and claim harassment or some other shit out of the blue. Thank lawyers. Managers would fire them first if they could for being 'a lying fuckup'. A lying POS will just as easily lie while being employed as unemployed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If this popped up right after two days of unexcused absences, I would be heavily leaning towards calling bullshit, because it sounds like the type of thing assholes would make up to make the boss the bad guy. Of course I don't know this kid, so maybe he's not the type. But OP was talking about a PIP for attendance problems before the cat came into the conversation, so it's pretty hard for me not to suspect that. But what do I know, I come into work reliably so I have zero issues when taking days for things like this. Maybe the prior days were him trying to take care of the cat that was about to die? That is why a lot of places have rigid attendance policies and points for missed time. No middle ground where people negotiate extra time off. Of course, that leads to people getting on FMLA then play the game of taking time off when they don't feel like coming to work even if its not within their FMLA guidelines. Seen more than a few people get fired for abusing that. Somehow people can't help themselves posting to Facebook doing stupid shit or being seen around town. Meh most of that shit is stupid. Especially when we're talking about hourly versus salary. If it's a good reason to leave work, it's a good reason, whether or not the employee is your top performer or someone who is on the outs. My ethics and morals are not grounded in the framework of the Human Resources departments. It might be good for the bottom line but it's a miserable way to live and even worse for community. If someone's a lying fuckup, they should be fired for being a lying fuckup, not be ran out the door to some nonsense "PIP" plan designed to minimize blowback and liability on the company while they push them out the door. Oh I think generous PTO plans are good but at some point you have to the draw a line where everyone is on the same page. PIP plans are just another method to document firing for cause so they can't come back later and claim harassment or some other shit out of the blue. Thank lawyers. Managers would fire them first if they could for being 'a lying fuckup'. A lying POS will just as easily lie while being employed as unemployed. Let's not forget that PTO and other items may be somewhat dependent upon industry, job, etc although they don't necessarily HAVE to be. My employer offers unlimited PTO. We also have sick days and bereavement (including pets). PTO is subject to manager approval, however, I've never heard of anyone being denied. It is more to make sure multiple key people in a single department aren't out at the same time or have worked out coverage. We have people take 2 weeks or more at a time on a regular basis. Since most of our employees are remote we even have people spend a month abroad with two of the weeks being full PTO. 4 months of paid paternity/maternity at full pay, too. My company treats us like adults when it comes to time-off. But, it's also the type of place at which performance matters. If you don't perform you will be replaced. People *want* to work at my employer. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 9:00:00 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah it's always a balancing act. My current position has grown into if you're looking for downstream reasons to discipline an employee, it's likely because you didn't start with something more serious earlier. Most of the "rules" that And completely understand the reason for the PIP stuff. There are always those shitbags. But most of what I've seen or heard of is typically employers letting shit go way to far, or never having set their employees up for success in the first place. Don't forget it could just be hoping they find a job elsewhere and avoid actual termination. I don't think they are meant to improve someone's performance to where they suddenly become a good productive employee. It's more like a setup to be fired for cause or they get the hint and go somewhere else Not setting someone up for success is a problem but specific to the situation. I do think those situations suck. I have a good friend who was a sales manager for a company doing medical/office supplies and by all accounts he is really good at his job. He wanted to branch out and found a company that manufactures promotional items. Did the round robin interview thing and after accepting a position being the sales manager for this company, after just a few months, they mutually parted ways. Their sales staff were lazy fucks that didn't want to be held accountable and it was easier to let my friend go than deal with a team of guys that wanted to fuck around and not be available for days on end and had become friends with the CEO/owner. His prior company hired him back and agreed to make him a permanent WFH employee. Moved out west. He goes back to the home office a few times a year and his managers visit him or do work trips to his AO 1-2 times a year since he lives within driving distance of Vegas now. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 9:08:06 PM EST
[#43]
I had a guy ask to duck out early because his / his wife's cat died.
That was more about dealing with his hysterical wife than the cat though. He's one of our top guys with zero performance issues. I still fired him. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 9:19:16 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's not forget that PTO and other items may be somewhat dependent upon industry, job, etc although they don't necessarily HAVE to be. My employer offers unlimited PTO. We also have sick days and bereavement (including pets). PTO is subject to manager approval, however, I've never heard of anyone being denied. It is more to make sure multiple key people in a single department aren't out at the same time or have worked out coverage. We have people take 2 weeks or more at a time on a regular basis. Since most of our employees are remote we even have people spend a month abroad with two of the weeks being full PTO. 4 months of paid paternity/maternity at full pay, too. My company treats us like adults when it comes to time-off. But, it's also the type of place at which performance matters. If you don't perform you will be replaced. People *want* to work at my employer. You really have to be selective in hiring for positions like that but it is nice when you can adult and not be treated like a kid. Most places cannot afford that type of liberalism with employees. On the employer side you really have to have tuned on managers that are tracking productivity in a meaningful way and create an environment where with the right people workloads can be managed to not burn people out. Too many managers think that being a good manager is sucking the life out of people then replacing them when they burn out and fail or quit just to meet some arbitrary number. Actual good leadership that looks out for people while also making people accountable is really hard to find. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 9:40:28 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe the prior days were him trying to take care of the cat that was about to die? It's also entirely possible the cat is being used as ablative responsibility armor, and people here are gullible. Also, if this sounds harsh, consider that it's coming from a guy that is walking into work later than usual tomorrow, because I have a dog with cancer and have to go to the vets office before work in the morning. |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 9:56:52 PM EST
[#46]
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Posted: 8/22/2023 9:58:37 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My workplace has one day per year for pet bereavement! Pet store: “Yeah, this guy comes in every January and adopts the mangiest cat we’ve got. He’s a saint.”
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Posted: 8/22/2023 10:09:05 PM EST
[#48]
I’m just shy of 40 and took the day off after my dog died in July. I was REALLY upset.
But I’m also in good standing with my organization, have a boatload of PTO time, and know my companies PTO policies to a very intricate detail. I get it that if the dude has time and attendance issues this is just something you have to deal with, which a PIP may be appropriate per policy, but I’m not gonna judge the dude for being broken up a day after losing a loved companion. If I was in his shoes and already in time and attendance trouble though, I wouldn’t take the day off |
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Posted: 8/22/2023 10:10:46 PM EST
[#49]
Take more Ativan
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Posted: 8/22/2023 10:34:12 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a guy no show and not answer the phone till afternoon on Monday. Says he got up early and got the paper. It was the Sunday paper that the forgot to get the previous day, so he thought it must be Sunday so he want back to bed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: When my cat died, my boss was chill with me taking the day off. Dude's pet died, give him a break. If this post was about a boomer and his dog everyone would have a different opinion. Did you have a record of poor attendance? I guarantee this guy's reasons for calling off are not good. I have literally had adult Gen Z call off because they overslept because their mom was out of town and didn't wake them up. I had a guy no show and not answer the phone till afternoon on Monday. Says he got up early and got the paper. It was the Sunday paper that the forgot to get the previous day, so he thought it must be Sunday so he want back to bed. I could sympathize with that one. 
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