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Posted: 1/19/2022 6:02:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @txgunguy I'm not picking on you, I'm just using your post as an example... I would like to hear from any of you who send none of your discretionary money to China. Do you use an Apple product? Computers? Solar cells? Air Conditioners? Shoes? Clothes? A vehicle (computer chips)? I'd bet a case of P-Mags* that most of you saying they would never buy a Chinese product in reality have a plethora of Chinese made products on your body or in / around your house. And, full disclosure: my first RDS was an RMRcc. I would happily buy an American made product if there is any that offer the same level of technological advances at a reasonably competitive price with the same or better quality. *used for dramatic effect, not an actual offer to make a bet This argument is bad because you are stating that buying the CCP optic instead of the US made one is fine, because he also owns a bunch of CCP made shit for which there is no US made substitute. The CCP simps in this thread act like an RMR vs a Holosun is like comparing an Atari to a PS5. 
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Posted: 1/19/2022 6:02:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It fits the factory optics cut in the slide. That’s the point. If you want an RMR footprint, they make the 407/507/508 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it fits a RMR mount, I'll probably put one on my 22/45 lite for sure. My carry weapon? Probably not. It fits the factory optics cut in the slide. That’s the point. If you want an RMR footprint, they make the 407/507/508 Which slide are you talking about? |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 6:10:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which slide are you talking about? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it fits a RMR mount, I'll probably put one on my 22/45 lite for sure. My carry weapon? Probably not. It fits the factory optics cut in the slide. That’s the point. If you want an RMR footprint, they make the 407/507/508 Which slide are you talking about? It’s pistol-specific. They’re making it for the Glock MOS cut, the CZ P10 cut, and the S&W CORE cut. And probably the Sig P320 soon. It replaces the stock cover plate that comes on the gun |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 6:11:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The CCP simps in this thread act like an RMR vs a Holosun is like comparing an Atari to a PS5. More like a first generation XBox to a PS5. The RMR was definitely one of the “modern generation” of optics, but it’s long since been surpassed in features and capability |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 6:13:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This argument is bad because you are stating that buying the CCP optic instead of the US made one is fine, because he also owns a bunch of CCP made shit for which there is no US made substitute. The CCP simps in this thread act like an RMR vs a Holosun is like comparing an Atari to a PS5. In this case it is an accurate comparison....this is a flush mount MRDS for an MOS platform....there is literally zero comparison between this and an RMR. I have multiple RMR's, love them but the fact remains this is a unique red dot. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 6:13:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More like a first generation XBox to a PS5. The RMR was definitely one of the "modern generation" of optics, but it's long since been surpassed in features and capability |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 6:31:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More like a first generation XBox to a PS5. The RMR was definitely one of the “modern generation” of optics, but it’s long since been surpassed in features and capability Kind of an exaggeration. EOtech had a fancier reticle than Aimpoint, but that's more of a preference than anything else. What tangible value is added by a titanium vs forged aluminum housing? Shake awake? The solar cells on the battery models? |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 6:32:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In this case it is an accurate comparison....this is a flush mount MRDS for an MOS platform....there is literally zero comparison between this and an RMR. I have multiple RMR's, love them but the fact remains this is a unique red dot. No, it's like an Xbox One and an Xbox One S. It's thinner and lets you cowotness with normal height sights. That will save you a little bit of money if you didn't already plan on replacing the shitty Glock sights with something better |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 6:46:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, it's like an Xbox One and an Xbox One S. It's thinner and lets you cowotness with normal height sights. That will save you a little bit of money if you didn't already plan on replacing the shitty Glock sights with something better Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In this case it is an accurate comparison....this is a flush mount MRDS for an MOS platform....there is literally zero comparison between this and an RMR. I have multiple RMR's, love them but the fact remains this is a unique red dot. No, it's like an Xbox One and an Xbox One S. It's thinner and lets you cowotness with normal height sights. That will save you a little bit of money if you didn't already plan on replacing the shitty Glock sights with something better Or if you don't want or need suppressor height sights. I'd like a sight that sits lower and that would give it to me. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 7:59:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks more like something pounded out by employees of the Slate Rock and Gravel Company than something Spacely Sprockets would produce. Maybe the pic is a preproduction prototype. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/312702/271936365_2010674035759276_1179772972381-2245747.JPG Meh. Never had an Acog? |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 8:38:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This argument is bad because you are stating that buying the CCP optic instead of the US made one is fine, because he also owns a bunch of CCP made shit for which there is no US made substitute. The CCP simps in this thread act like an RMR vs a Holosun is like comparing an Atari to a PS5. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 8:56:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show me the US made RDS with shake awake, auto dim, good battery life, no need to change batteries for 10 years, multiple reticles, and sits low enough on an MOS slide to use stock sights. I'll wait... That's an awful lot of confidence in an optic that isn't actually out yet. Ask Modlite how the pre-release claims worked out for their pistol light. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 9:18:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's an awful lot of confidence in an optic that isn't actually out yet. Ask Modlite how the pre-release claims worked out for their pistol light. The discussion is about innovation with cost as a secondary item. While I can understand not wanting to give money to the CCP, in real life you do it anyway. If you don't buy anything you absolutely can live without if it's Chinese, great... I applaud your dedication. But my guess is most people overlook buying the Chinese made things they like (IPhones), and aren't actually as dedicated to this philosophy as they make themselves out to be. ETA: no-one is changing anyone's mind on this. On that note, I'm done posting in this thread. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 9:25:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's an awful lot of confidence in an optic that isn't actually out yet. Ask Modlite how the pre-release claims worked out for their pistol light. Ask Aaron Cowan. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 9:35:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So ya got nothin', eh? Thought so. The discussion is about innovation with cost as a secondary item. While I can understand not wanting to give money to the CCP, in real life you do it anyway. If you don't buy anything you absolutely can live without if it's Chinese, great... I applaud your dedication. But my guess is most people overlook buying the Chinese made things they like (IPhones), and aren't actually as dedicated to this philosophy as they make themselves out to be. ETA: no-one is changing anyone's mind on this. On that note, I'm done posting in this thread. Speaking of not having anything....  I'm skeptical that this will both be bright enough to be useful and give the stated battery life on solar charge, given the actual performance of Holosuns that are on the market. A different reticle is not innovation, it is a preference that has been in play for decades with Aimpoint vs. Eotech. Shake awake is a gimmick. The only real innovation here is body height, which is realistically a packaging evolution. Even witout optic milling, a lot of people change out the shitty Glock factory sights, changing them with suppressor height sights isn't really different from a cost perspective. Holosun and Trijicon both produce a durable optic that will reliably project a dot of enough brightness to be useful onto your target. Both have great battery life and auto brightness. The rest of the differences aren't really substantial; for example removing the optic to replace a battery seems like a bigger deal before you buy the optic than it actually is when you use it. I make a conscious effort to minimize spending money on Chinese shit. It isn't hard, most things have substitutes made in Taiwan or elsewhere. If you're unwilling to even do that then I guess that's cool.
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Posted: 1/19/2022 11:34:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s pistol-specific. They’re making it for the Glock MOS cut, the CZ P10 cut, and the S&W CORE cut. And probably the Sig P320 soon. It replaces the stock cover plate that comes on the gun I just ordered another Sig P365XL, where’s my dot? Dang Ol commies. |
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Posted: 1/19/2022 11:40:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just ordered another Sig P365XL, where’s my dot? Dang Ol commies. Well, You Could Do This. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:02:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speaking of not having anything.... I'm skeptical that this will both be bright enough to be useful and give the stated battery life on solar charge, given the actual performance of Holosuns that are on the market. A different reticle is not innovation, it is a preference that has been in play for decades with Aimpoint vs. Eotech. Shake awake is a gimmick. The only real innovation here is body height, which is realistically a packaging evolution. Even witout optic milling, a lot of people change out the shitty Glock factory sights, changing them with suppressor height sights isn't really different from a cost perspective. Holosun and Trijicon both produce a durable optic that will reliably project a dot of enough brightness to be useful onto your target. Both have great battery life and auto brightness. The rest of the differences aren't really substantial; for example removing the optic to replace a battery seems like a bigger deal before you buy the optic than it actually is when you use it. I make a conscious effort to minimize spending money on Chinese shit. It isn't hard, most things have substitutes made in Taiwan or elsewhere. If you're unwilling to even do that then I guess that's cool. Lol. I notice you conveniently skipped over the enclosed emitter part. You know, the most important advantage over a trijicon. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:13:09 AM EDT
[#19]
vaChina!!!!
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:31:58 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I just ordered another Sig P365XL, where’s my dot? Dang Ol commies. Well, You Could Do This. Just funnin. I’ll steal a 407K of one of my G48’s til the market settles down and I can get whatever I choose. Probably next Summer! |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:41:05 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just funnin. I’ll steal a 407K of one of my G48’s til the market settles down and I can get whatever I choose. Probably next Summer! Right, or you could go EPS. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:53:33 AM EDT
[#22]
All your tax money goes over there anyway. Where do you think fakei got the money to develop the virus? You think this one is bad wait until the next bug zaps the country. It will really be deadly. No vaccine will help that either.
Holosun makes a great sight. Should bolster some competition. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:37:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Is anyone interested in actually discussing the damn optic instead of continuing a patriotic pissing match? Everyone’s made their argument, nobody’s changing their minds at this point. I want to hear more about the actual sight, not the personal ethical conundrums arising from “made in China” products. Start a new thread if you want to continue the debate
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Posted: 1/20/2022 8:18:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. I notice you conveniently skipped over the enclosed emitter part. You know, the most important advantage over a trijicon. Depends on the model, but I did already state that was an advantage over the RMR. You can get it from Aimpoint though too. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 8:34:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryI don't even want to know what she's trying eat... 
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Posted: 1/20/2022 8:37:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't even want to know what she's trying eat... Regarding this new sight, I a no for me. I want to be able to manually adjust the brightness as needed. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 10:13:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Regarding this new sight, I a no for me. I want to be able to manually adjust the brightness as needed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't even want to know what she's trying eat... Regarding this new sight, I a no for me. I want to be able to manually adjust the brightness as needed. Geoduck is my guess. And call me old fashioned, but I prefer my brightness adjustments to be manual, as well. I see the advantage of automatic adjustment, that being no fiddling with the sight (at possibly very inopportune times) to match brightness to environment - when all is working at it should. However, I see a bigger disadvantage in that, if the sensor should somehow fail to function as intended, you have zero ability to rectify a brightness-to-environment disparity. You can find the same arguments against powered optics vs iron sights, and just about any new tech vs established tech. I suppose it just comes down to comfort and trust, and I'm getting old 
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Posted: 1/20/2022 10:20:17 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More like a first generation XBox to a PS5. The RMR was definitely one of the “modern generation” of optics, but it’s long since been surpassed in features and capability Look… I like Holosun. They produce an excellent product in most ways. With modern battery life I think shake awake and solar is of negligible importance unless it’s an optic like this. Also, the automatic adjustment mode of every Holosun optic I’ve used is less than ideal, I just go manual. As far as an enclosed emitter goes, I think there are concerns regarding an open emitter but they are largely overblown by the vast number of end users. That being said Trijicon is missing the boat there. But how, exactly, is an RMR less capable than a Holosun? |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 10:36:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please make it 43x size with ACSS reticle |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 11:31:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look… I like Holosun. They produce an excellent product in most ways. Agreed. With modern battery life I think shake awake and solar is of negligible importance unless it’s an optic like this. Also, the automatic adjustment mode of every Holosun optic I’ve used is less than ideal, I just go manual. Agreed on all counts. Same with RMR, just a tad too dim so I only go manual on RMRs, too As far as an enclosed emitter goes, I think there are concerns regarding an open emitter but they are largely overblown by the vast number of end users. That being said Trijicon is missing the boat there. Also agreed on both counts. But how, exactly, is an RMR less capable than a Holosun? I agree with most above. But to address the question... Battery, every other year I have to rezero/reverify when I change my RMR battery. It’s usually close enough, but it’s still an actual disadvantage. I like the window on the Holosun better. Less tint, less distortion, crisper dot. Doing practice drills with two G19s (one with RM06 and the other a 407C), the 407 just feels easier and faster. Reticle options are subjective but still nice to have. Could be trivial to some (it is to me; I like a plain dot) but desirable to others. The ACSS Vulcan is actually cool and if the circle dot or donut works for someone then that’s fine too. But options to have more noticeable reticles can be and are are an advantage to some people. Holosuns don’t ever need sealing plates. It might seem trivial but it’s a real world advantage, even if very minor. Fewer gaps, fewer points of water incursion, a loose or broken mounting screw doesn’t jeopardize the water resistance, etc. The 407k/507k sit much lower than the RMRcc. Low enough with some place’s slide cuts to use the integral rear notch with factory irons. Some of holosuns use titanium housings. Titanium is tougher than aluminum. A minor advantage because both the RMR and 407/507 are already drop tough, but it’s still an incremental advantage nonetheless. But here’s the bottom line... it’s not even about price. These are combat/carry optics. You should strive to equip yourself with the BEST options you can afford to use/abuse because your life might depend on it. So if the Holosun has proven itself to be drop-tested & tough AND it gives a particular user even just one net advantage... even if slight... then what are we talking about?!? You should be give yourself the most advantage you can in a combat/carry optic. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 11:46:36 AM EDT
[#31]
I hate that it's made in China, but I love the fact that Holosun is fucking up Trijicon and will eventually force them to let go of the government teet and get of their lazy ass and do something innovative.
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:18:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hate that it's made in China, but I love the fact that Holosun is fucking up Trijicon and will eventually force them to let go of the government teet and get of their lazy ass and do something innovative. https://64.media.tumblr.com/5cf4700cce6524cde073c5945d7b6ca3/d00be9d213959efb-d8/s1280x1920/ea8e99c88b721ab90fcef225396645fb5dfd4640.jpg That might take a while considering how many VCOGs are popping up on M27s these days |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:48:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Well I just changed my staccato order to have the compact/carry sights still with the dpo cut. I wont be using a can on the staccato, so I dont need tall sights.
I just hope the SCS comes out with a delta point pro matching foot print at some point. Until then I just wont have cowitness sights with the plate mounted 407 red dot, and I can live with that. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 12:58:28 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well I just changed my staccato order to have the compact/carry sights still with the dpo cut. I wont be using a can on the staccato, so I dont need tall sights. I just hope the SCS comes out with a delta point pro matching foot print at some point. Until then I just wont have cowitness sights with the plate mounted 407 red dot, and I can live with that. I've got a G19 with an RMR and standard sights....I wouldn't want to make long distance precision shots with the iron sights but it's usable up close. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 1:57:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is anyone interested in actually discussing the damn optic instead of continuing a patriotic pissing match? Everyone’s made their argument, nobody’s changing their minds at this point. I want to hear more about the actual sight, not the personal ethical conundrums arising from “made in China” products. Start a new thread if you want to continue the debate It happened in my EPS thread too, not even 10 posts down the first page. Sorry if I contributed to the highjack. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 5:12:49 PM EDT
[#36]
In preparation for this new optic, I want to have a slide milled. Jagerwerks has multiple options. Should I just choose "RMR" as my cut style?
https://jagerwerks.com/trijicon-rmr-for-glock/ |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 5:16:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In preparation for this new optic, I want to have a slide milled. Jagerwerks has multiple options. Should I just choose "RMR" as my cut style? https://jagerwerks.com/trijicon-rmr-for-glock/ It's my understanding this is a direct-mount to the MOS system. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 5:21:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Normally, I just keep my opinion to myself concerning Holosun MRDS but I just feel compelled to wonder “aloud” - What’s the deal with solar power MRDS which will be carried concealed by the end user? Makes no sense to me.
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Posted: 1/20/2022 5:25:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Curious about comments concerning the irrelevance of shake awake. For those saying it's not needed because of longer battery life, do you not turn your optics off? I can see that for those carrying a duty gun and turning it on before every shift and then off afterwards. Is that what you do now? I don't carry a gun for a living so really want to understand this and not being a smart a$$.
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Posted: 1/20/2022 5:30:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Curious about comments concerning the irrelevance of shake awake. For those saying it's not needed because of longer battery life, do you not turn your optics off? I can see that for those carrying a duty gun and turning it on before every shift and then off afterwards. Is that what you do now? I don't carry a gun for a living so really want to understand this and not being a smart a$$. Nope. Install, turn on, leave on. Replace battery every year. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 5:31:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Curious about comments concerning the irrelevance of shake awake. For those saying it's not needed because of longer battery life, do you not turn your optics off? I can see that for those carrying a duty gun and turning it on before every shift and then off afterwards. Is that what you do now? I don't carry a gun for a living so really want to understand this and not being a smart a$$. Nope. My RMR has been running continuously for about a year and a half now. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 5:35:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Curious about comments concerning the irrelevance of shake awake. For those saying it's not needed because of longer battery life, do you not turn your optics off? I can see that for those carrying a duty gun and turning it on before every shift and then off afterwards. Is that what you do now? I don't carry a gun for a living so really want to understand this and not being a smart a$$. I've never turned off an MRDS sight. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 6:13:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. Install, turn on, leave on. Replace battery every year. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Curious about comments concerning the irrelevance of shake awake. For those saying it's not needed because of longer battery life, do you not turn your optics off? I can see that for those carrying a duty gun and turning it on before every shift and then off afterwards. Is that what you do now? I don't carry a gun for a living so really want to understand this and not being a smart a$$. Nope. Install, turn on, leave on. Replace battery every year. THIS!!! my EDC and go to AR stay on always. change batteries on new years |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 6:32:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is anyone interested in actually discussing the damn optic instead of continuing a patriotic pissing match? Everyone’s made their argument, nobody’s changing their minds at this point. I want to hear more about the actual sight, not the personal ethical conundrums arising from “made in China” products. Start a new thread if you want to continue the debate Its impossible in a GD holosun thread. You want a tech discussion go to tech. All you get here is monkeys flinging shit back and forth. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 8:22:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is anyone interested in actually discussing the damn optic instead of continuing a patriotic pissing match? Everyone’s made their argument, nobody’s changing their minds at this point. I want to hear more about the actual sight, not the personal ethical conundrums arising from “made in China” products. Start a new thread if you want to continue the debate I’m interested in one, but doubt we’ll see any in the wild til Summer at the earliest. I’d also like to see them beat on by our fav Utoober. So, I’ll run my current ones til late Summer / early Fall and save a few bucks. |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 10:17:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m interested in one, but doubt we’ll see any in the wild til Summer at the earliest. I’d also like to see them beat on by our fav Utoober. So, I’ll run my current ones til late Summer / early Fall and save a few bucks. Which one? |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 10:32:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which one? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m interested in one, but doubt we’ll see any in the wild til Summer at the earliest. I’d also like to see them beat on by our fav Utoober. So, I’ll run my current ones til late Summer / early Fall and save a few bucks. Which one? Aaron Cowan/Sage Dynamics is the authoritative pistol RDS SME and his 2,000-round tests are considered the standard for optic durability. He’s had a pre-production SCS for the last year and says it’s good - and it gets his coveted Duty Ready rating |
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Posted: 1/20/2022 10:39:21 PM EDT
[#48]
It'll be interesting to see this on a revolver; shorter than an RMR and way more compact than those big tube dots.
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Posted: 1/20/2022 11:14:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It'll be interesting to see this on a revolver; shorter than an RMR and way more compact than those big tube dots.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/21/2022 12:14:08 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aaron Cowan/Sage Dynamics is the authoritative pistol RDS SME and his 2,000-round tests are considered the standard for optic durability. He’s had a pre-production SCS for the last year and says it’s good - and it gets his coveted Duty Ready rating Right, but when someone refers to a favorite Youtuber, that could mean anybody. I follow Sage on IG, so I saw his post & remarks about the SCS. |
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