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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:33:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And what's the role of the Border Patrol? It's fine for the NG to support other organizations. But this extended mission of likely doing nothing doesn't seem helpful. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:35:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hand out water, give directions and make sure the illegals don't get hurt when they illegally cross the border. This is what most of them are doing. I have 4 friends down there right now, I served with all of them. They said all they do is babysit the illegals and help them across. They are not allowed to stop any from crossing. They give them water, food and a ride away from the border where they hand them off to dhs. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:35:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL, a real leader would say defending the homeland is our #1 priority and we will work to get our MOS training done when we can integrate it into our primary mission of defending America. But Gen. Daniel Hokanson is a follower. Maybe he just needs to check in with the CCP like another general we all know: US general defends 'secret' phone calls with China John J. Pershing and George S. Patton didn't consider the US border an LE mission. But they were real leaders too. Not pussies with excuses. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actual Quote: "There is no military training value in what we do there," he said. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." This is total bullshit. In 2022 when I was teaching pistol safety and marksmanship to NG deployed on the border, most didn't have any experience with pistol and there had been some prior issues with NDs. Pistol safety and marksmanship skills carry over to other firearms. I also trained a good number of soldiers before they deployed to the border on pistol and rifle, as deployment can be a significant motivator to get additional training. Gen. Daniel Hokanson acts like a major deployment isn't in itself useful military experience for guardsman who may only train ~40 days/year Honestly the General is outing himself as a traitor as he doesn't consider defending our border as worthy of the NG's time. WTF??? If defending our border isn't worthy of NG's time, what is? There's a SHIT TON more to being an infantryman or artilleryman than weapons safety classes. You hit the nail on the head without meaning to. With ~40 days of training a year it's imperative that NG and reservists maintain basic MOS proficiency, so when they do a workup they aren't starting from scratch. The Chief is saying they are losing that, and that the border patrol mission should be done by...well...the Border Patrol. Calling him a traitor for wanting his guys prepared for large scale combat operations is dumb. So in your world view what is more important than defending America's border??? Infantry training is all about marksmanship, fitness, and medical. Your fantasy is that marksmanship training doesn't count? That training 40 days a year is better readiness than SERVING 365 days a year? Please EXPLAIN to me how 40 days per year of fitness training is better than 365 days of fitness training? Why is it "imperative" that those soldiers prepare for large scale combat operations? In your mind do you imagine WW3 wouldn't be over in a few minutes? As far as artillery, what ammunition would they use? It's already been given away: Ukraine War Is Depleting U.S. Ammunition Stockpiles, Sparking Pentagon Concern (2022) US digs into global stockpile to meet Ukraine's arms demand (2023) I'm happy to talk to you about this, but ditch the attitude and stop pretending I said things I didn't. I didn't say defending the border isn't important. I didn't say marksmanship doesn't count. I did say that there's a lot more to being an infantryman and artilleryman than marksmanship, and I'm correct about that. There's also a lot more to it than fitness and medical. Small unit tactics, immediate actions, basic fucking infantry skills that go way beyond simple marksmanship. Things that apparently you don't know about- that's not a dig, it's okay not to know about those things. Just stop pretending you do. Yes, ACTUAL training IN YOUR MOS for 40 days is better readiness than doing something NOT MOS RELATED 365 days a year. Having been in the infantry on active duty, and also served as a reservist these are things I actually know about. I've been responsible for training 80+ Marines with those 40 days. You are saying things that illustrate that you either have no experience with the infantry or reserve duty or extremely low level experience. It's imperative because that's their mission. Their mission is not LE on the border. That's Border Patrol's mission. This is what the Chief is saying. LOL, a real leader would say defending the homeland is our #1 priority and we will work to get our MOS training done when we can integrate it into our primary mission of defending America. But Gen. Daniel Hokanson is a follower. Maybe he just needs to check in with the CCP like another general we all know: US general defends 'secret' phone calls with China John J. Pershing and George S. Patton didn't consider the US border an LE mission. But they were real leaders too. Not pussies with excuses. It's not just "MOS" training. John J. Pershing is actually a good example. He led a mission that would actually be a USNORTHCOM mission today, and it was pulled together fast. What would that have looked like if half the cavalry units he needed couldn't proficiently move, let alone fight, on horseback because they'd spent the previous year manning chow halls and running tent cities? Sure, maybe they didn't need to rely on reserves. But when your job is to provide such reserves, your job is to flag issues the detract from readiness. Later, as AER commander, Pershing had a challenging time fielding forces proficient in maneuver warfare. He understood the importance of fielding forces able to do in the field what they were supposedly equipped to do on paper. Pershing, years later, served as the Army Chief of Staff right as the modern organized reserve and modern national guard system was taking shape, and was personal instrumental in many of the basic concepts of peacetime readiness being discussed here in this thread. edited Coc6 |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:36:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After a few months gone he won't lose that much, but he also won't learn nearly as much as if he spent the same amount of days working his AFSC. Being NG, any time from improving his proficiency or maintaining up-to-date training and administrative requirements is a massive setback, I would think. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:36:37 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that’s left, I guess they feel it’s a burden too. RIP USA.  Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. What's stopping you? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:37:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's stopping you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that’s left, I guess they feel it’s a burden too. RIP USA. Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. What's stopping you? Stopping me from what? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:38:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stopping me from what? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, federal government, the president, sec of defense, pentagon, sec of state, DOJ, border patrol, fbi, atf, epa, immigration, nsa, irs, homeland security, federal courts, scotus, congress , senate, secret service, park rangers, usmc, U.S. army, navy, or anyone else gives a fuck about border security and destruction of the USA. State national guard is all that’s left, I guess they feel it’s a burden too. RIP USA. Because this is how empires / countries die. In what world would it not be a burden for them to conduct this mission indefinitely? Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. What's stopping you? Stopping me from what?  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:39:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean...he's not wrong. I'll add that I am skeptical that the NG troops stationed there are allowed to do anything actually useful like apprehend and deport illegals. I don't know for sure though. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." A bunch of the old CONUS "deployments" were like that. Send people out to look like you're doing something productive. Troops have nothing to do except piss away per diem on strippers and booze. ... Or so I've been told. 
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:42:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A bunch of the old CONUS "deployments" were like that. Send people out to look like you're doing something productive. Troops have nothing to do except piss away per diem on strippers and booze. ... Or so I've been told. If I joined the infantry and my "deployment" was standing around at the border I'd be pissed.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:44:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:  The National Guard’s ongoing security mission on the southern U.S. border provides “no military training value” to the troops stationed there and adds significant stress to their families, the head of the force told lawmakers on Tuesday. In testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Gen. Daniel Hokanson, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said roughly 2,500 guardsmen are currently stationed along the southern border in support of Department of Homeland Security missions related to immigration issues. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2024/06/18/southern-border-mission-has-no-military-value-guard-chief-warns/ There's a lot more Texas military forces. That's the Federal mission not Abbott's mission. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:44:59 PM EDT
[#11]
That was my thought. The Border Patrol has never had been gun shy. As many may remember, that BP guy patrolled the bejesus out of that POS in Uvalde.
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:46:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a lot more Texas military forces. That's the Federal mission not Abbott's mission. Abbott's mission does appear to be useful. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/23/us/texas-abbott-border.html |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 8:49:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After a few months gone he won't lose that much, but he also won't learn nearly as much as if he spent the same amount of days working his AFSC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I mean...he's not wrong. I'll add that I am skeptical that the NG troops stationed there are allowed to do anything actually useful like apprehend and deport illegals. I don't know for sure though. "This is a law enforcement mission. They're doing mission sets that are not directly applicable to their military skill sets. That time, I think, would be better used building readiness to deter our adversaries." One of my crew chiefs is there. He's not getting a lot of aircraft maintenance experience there. Exactly. When he comes back to you, he's going to need serious refresher and likely won't be able to do his chiefly duties. Am I right? But GD knows better. After a few months gone he won't lose that much, but he also won't learn nearly as much as if he spent the same amount of days working his AFSC. Glad to hear that. Any loss of training for a reservist is tough. |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 9:40:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except they aren't. If they were actually digging in, laying fields of fire, and lighting up the invaders with small arms and artillery then yes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Except they aren't. If they were actually digging in, laying fields of fire, and lighting up the invaders with small arms and artillery then yes. For what? To militarize a civilian function?  Quoted: How about desensitizing the troops to killing? I don't think that's the problem. Desensitizing them to murdering unarmed people..okay Quoted: If they changed ROE it could provide military training value Shooting unarmed people is never and shouldn't be "training". GD is a fickle creature. Quoted: There is a military value for Ukraine, S. Korea, and Tawain, but nothing for the US. There is a difference in what those countries are going through and what the USA is dealing with. A major difference. Quoted: Ok we can let them use 40mm We already use the 40mm. Quoted: Yep. He says it has no training value, not military value as the title states. He also stated it creates an undue burden, which is correct. The national guard is not designed for enduring nonstop missions, like OLS or OSS, yet they are being cycled nonstop. Both missions offer static employment typically not conducting their core missions by unit or MOS, thus not providing training value. All training time has now been absorbed by a separate mission and units are unable to train and validate in their required tasks. The second order effects of this are no units ready to perform their actual military function, augmentation of active forces with military skill sets during a time of need. He's saying it's not their job to be full time border patrol and he is correct. /thread OLS is the most expensive and mostly poorly run state budget item in Texas history. Quoted: Nobody gives a shit. If they didn't want to do it they shouldn't have enlisted. There's plenty of redblooded Americans who are willing to take their place and go defend the border. Where have they been? OLS is now on it's 4th year having started in March of 2021. People should care. They complain about |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 9:41:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol, there’s massive value for military personnel in all of that. Hunting enemy / opponents , tracking, practicing every dismounted maneuver, ambush practice, recon, sniper / hide training, dealing with pows, searches, plus shitloads of security value in keeping out bad people, enemy agents, etc. This is simply more political bullshit / running from responsibilities, protecting the USA, and forcing the constitution to be upheld. There is absolutely none of that being done. How does crowd control and domestic LE functions assist a primarily infantry division such as the 36th ID? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 9:50:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Aren’t they being used as meals on wheels there?
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Posted: 6/18/2024 9:51:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: The National Guard’s ongoing security mission on the southern U.S. border provides “no military training value” to the troops stationed there and adds significant stress to their families, the head of the force told lawmakers on Tuesday. In testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Gen. Daniel Hokanson, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said roughly 2,500 guardsmen are currently stationed along the southern border in support of Department of Homeland Security missions related to immigration issues. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2024/06/18/southern-border-mission-has-no-military-value-guard-chief-warns/ The way the mission is currently setup, he isn't very wrong. The military is for killing people and blowing their shit up. If you aren't letting them do that, then are they getting any actual training value out of being on the border? |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 10:08:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aren’t they being used as meals on wheels there? Not at all.  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 10:41:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No "military training value" isn't exactly the same as "no military value" or "no security value." THIS!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 6/18/2024 10:46:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No "military training value" isn't exactly the same as "no military value" or "no security value." But honesty does not make us click. And the guy is right. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:01:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: The National Guard’s ongoing security mission on the southern U.S. border provides “no military training value” to the troops stationed there and adds significant stress to their families, the head of the force told lawmakers on Tuesday. In testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee, Gen. Daniel Hokanson, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said roughly 2,500 guardsmen are currently stationed along the southern border in support of Department of Homeland Security missions related to immigration issues. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2024/06/18/southern-border-mission-has-no-military-value-guard-chief-warns/ So close the fucking border and send them home . |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:15:19 AM EDT
[#22]
Sounds like he is tired of security theater.
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:41:40 AM EDT
[#23]
Ah yes the Congressional crybaby session. Where 4 stars and some 3 stars bitch and moan about how thinly resourced they are and cry about how hard their job is, to try and get more money. All these worthless fucks do is waste money and lose wars.
Who gives a fuck about a war with China in the Pacific, or a war anywhere else, with anyone else, while we don't even bother to secure our own border? The General has convinced me that the NG does nothing of value at the border. We might as well cut the NG federal budget by 100%. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:44:21 AM EDT
[#24]
The National Guard Chief can go suck a big fat one.
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:52:48 AM EDT
[#25]
From the position of a person in the know…and also a former National Gard member:
The Border Patrol and the troops assisting from the National Guard are not allowed to PREVENT anyone from crossing the midpoint of the river or coming across the Southern Border. If we have the border Fence, we are not allowed to stop them from climbing it. If we put concertina wire on the River bank, we are not allowed to keep them from cutting it. They WILL set foot on US soil…the Administration makes absolutely sure this will happen. Once on US soil, they are absolutely entitled to due process as there is not a manufactures tag or tattoo on each person clearly identifying their nationality. A fundamental rule of the Border is THOU SHALL NEVER MAKE THE MISTAKE OF DEPORTING A US CITIZEN!! As such, they are all entitled to a hearing on their citizenship or immigration status or asylum claim. Since the immigration courts can’t adjudicate the cases as fast as our Government is bringing them in, the vast majority are given a Notice to Appear, a plane or bus ticket and sent on their merry way to a town near you. The only thing the National Guard is doing is increasing the size of the welcoming committee. And the Chief is right…there’s no military value in babysitting newly-arrived Democrats for Biden and Mayorkas. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 1:01:12 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the position of a person in the know…and also a former National Gard member: The Border Patrol and the troops assisting from the National Guard are not allowed to PREVENT anyone from crossing the midpoint of the river or coming across the Southern Border. If we have the border Fence, we are not allowed to stop them from climbing it. If we put concertina wire on the River bank, we are not allowed to keep them from cutting it. They WILL set foot on US soil…the Administration makes absolutely sure this will happen. Once on US soil, they are absolutely entitled to due process as there is not a manufactures tag or tattoo on each person clearly identifying their nationality. A fundamental rule of the Border is THOU SHALL NEVER MAKE THE MISTAKE OF DEPORTING A US CITIZEN!! As such, they are all entitled to a hearing on their citizenship or immigration status or asylum claim. Since the immigration courts can’t adjudicate the cases as fast as our Government is bringing them in, the vast majority are given a Notice to Appear, a plane or bus ticket and sent on their merry way to a town near you. The only thing the National Guard is doing is increasing the size of the welcoming committee. And the Chief is right…there’s no military value in babysitting newly-arrived Democrats for Biden and Mayorkas. Obviously we are totally unwilling and unable to enforce or defend a border. We therefore don't need a National Guard, Border Patrol, DOJ, DOD, IRS... Or really any need for a Federal Government at all. They don't do the most basic 101 level thing, they can fuck right off. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 1:12:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Obviously we are totally unwilling and unable to enforce or defend a border. We therefore don't need a National Guard, Border Patrol, DOJ, DOD, IRS... Or really any need for a Federal Government at all. They don't do the most basic 101 level thing, they can fuck right off. We absolutely need MOST of those you name…but we need them used correctly. How they are being used is the problem and CoC and the internet is forever prevents me from what I think is the appropriate term for that. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 1:15:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Well when they tell you you’re going to the border, you likely think of putting people in trucks and driving them back over. What you find out is you’re most likely a traffic cop showing them where to go.
Not exactly a good training scenario. Troops get a dose of how bad the country is getting f*cked and they aren’t so eager to re up. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 1:28:21 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well when they tell you you’re going to the border, you likely think of putting people in trucks and driving them back over. What you find out is you’re most likely a traffic cop showing them where to go. Not exactly a good training scenario. Troops get a dose of how bad the country is getting f*cked and they aren’t so eager to re up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Well when they tell you you’re going to the border, you likely think of putting people in trucks and driving them back over. What you find out is you’re most likely a traffic cop showing them where to go. Not exactly a good training scenario. Troops get a dose of how bad the country is getting f*cked and they aren’t so eager to re up. Hold up, you know what border bois are doing, @1cheapshot ?  Attached File Attached File Attached FileQuoted: So close the fucking border and send them home . Who enforces the "closed" part of the border? Quoted: The National Guard Chief can go suck a big fat one. The NG chief is right as multiple people have stated in the thread. I'd suggest reading what he said before beleiving a clickbait title. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 1:38:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We absolutely need MOST of those you name…but we need them used correctly. How they are being used is the problem and CoC and the internet is forever prevents me from what I think is the appropriate term for that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Obviously we are totally unwilling and unable to enforce or defend a border. We therefore don't need a National Guard, Border Patrol, DOJ, DOD, IRS... Or really any need for a Federal Government at all. They don't do the most basic 101 level thing, they can fuck right off. We absolutely need MOST of those you name…but we need them used correctly. How they are being used is the problem and CoC and the internet is forever prevents me from what I think is the appropriate term for that. So what you are saying is that the federal government isn't doing their job? If I don't do my job, I get fired and replaced... |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 4:19:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Simple question: Are the National Guard stopping anybody from crossing our borders? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No "military training value" isn't exactly the same as "no military value" or "no security value." Simple question: Are the National Guard stopping anybody from crossing our borders? Texas Sees 74% Drop In Illegal Border Crossings Since Operation Lone Star, Gov. Office Says Since the program was launched, the multi-agency effort has led to nearly 514,000 illegal immigrant apprehensions and more than 44,000 criminal arrests, with more than 38,600 felony charges, the statement said. His office also emphasizes that law enforcement officials have seized over 489 million lethal doses of the synthetic opioid fentanyl during this period, noting the quantity seized is enough to “kill every man, woman, and child in the United States and Mexico combined.” |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 4:28:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So actually doing something isn’t more valuable for training than sitting in an armory doing powerpoint lectures? He’s kinda right about the fact that being on orders anywhere means being away from family, but that’s the job and it should have been explained to them. You can also still be away from family going to drill at a unit 2+ hours away from where you live. Let the guard enforce the border and arrest illegal crossers. That would be the best training you could get. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 4:29:49 PM EDT
[#33]
GEN Hokanson should probably be more familiar with this:
National Guard Regulation 500-5/ Air National Guard Instruction 10-208 1-1. Purpose Consolidate the policy and responsibilities for National Guard law enforcement support and mission assurance operations. Responsibilities 2-1. Chief, National Guard Bureau (CNGB) a. Serves as the principal advisor to the Secretaries of the Army and Air Force and to the Army and Air Force Chiefs of Staff on matters relating to the National Guard, the Army National Guard of the United States, and the Air National Guard of the United States, including domestic law enforcement support and mission assurance operations. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 4:35:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GEN Hokanson should probably be more familiar with this: National Guard Regulation 500-5/ Air National Guard Instruction 10-208 Quote HistoryQuoted: GEN Hokanson should probably be more familiar with this: National Guard Regulation 500-5/ Air National Guard Instruction 10-208 1-1. Purpose Consolidate the policy and responsibilities for National Guard law enforcement support and mission assurance operations. Responsibilities 2-1. Chief, National Guard Bureau (CNGB) a. Serves as the principal advisor to the Secretaries of the Army and Air Force and to the Army and Air Force Chiefs of Staff on matters relating to the National Guard, the Army National Guard of the United States, and the Air National Guard of the United States, including domestic law enforcement support and mission assurance operations. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 4:48:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Much of what is being done on the border by the Guard is building barriers:
Texas is the first – and ONLY – state in U.S. history to build our own border wall. This is generally physical work involving lifting and carrying... which are the most common physical tasks required of soldiers And contrary to GEN Hokanson's statement, NG deployed on the border does do METL training. The actual complication is that due to the organic nature of the deployment, Guardsman get individual training, but not unit training with their home unit. They can't "train as a team" In my mind that is perfectly fine, as whatever has gone yellow or red in the METL spreadsheet is less important today's needs of defending America right now. When the Border Patrol is allowed to do their job again and Trumps wall is completed, perhaps the NG can get back to regular activities. The alternative is to have the TXSG do the majority of the work so GEN Hokanson's guardsman can focus more on their METL. Hokanson was running this:  So when he talks about how it is more important to be "building readiness to deter our adversaries" ... he doesn't mean defending America... he means defending the swamp from America |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 4:49:14 PM EDT
[#36]
FUCK Gen. Daniel Hokanson
hes a goddamn liar and sucking the cock of Biden admin for cushy promotions and future job. he knows what he is expected to say. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 4:50:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No "military training value" isn't exactly the same as "no military value" or "no security value." OP is fake news. Misquoting someone to generate ragebait. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 4:54:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why can't DHS do it? There are 20,000 ICE agents. I think they could. Mayorkas just won't let them do it. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 5:06:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The alternative is to have the TXSG do the majority of the work so GEN Hokanson's guardsman can focus more on their METL. I guess you missed the entire "unsustainable" portion of his comments, but it's not surprising. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 5:07:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No "military training value" isn't exactly the same as "no military value" or "no security value." Yup. Just a other click bait GD thread. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 8:47:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Much of what is being done on the border by the Guard is building barriers: Texas is the first – and ONLY – state in U.S. history to build our own border wall. This is generally physical work involving lifting and carrying... which are the most common physical tasks required of soldiers And contrary to GEN Hokanson's statement, NG deployed on the border does do METL training. The actual complication is that due to the organic nature of the deployment, Guardsman get individual training, but not unit training with their home unit. They can't "train as a team" In my mind that is perfectly fine, as whatever has gone yellow or red in the METL spreadsheet is less important today's needs of defending America right now. When the Border Patrol is allowed to do their job again and Trumps wall is completed, perhaps the NG can get back to regular activities. The alternative is to have the TXSG do the majority of the work so GEN Hokanson's guardsman can focus more on their METL. Hokanson was running this: https://wehco.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/imports/adg/photos/197625780_197622639-7d691fac581e4e03b039b31ceb801dfe_t1000.jpg?cc6fa094ad523b984325c7879220d3883a443e7f So when he talks about how it is more important to be "building readiness to deter our adversaries" ... he doesn't mean defending America... he means defending the swamp from America Quote HistoryQuoted: Much of what is being done on the border by the Guard is building barriers: Texas is the first – and ONLY – state in U.S. history to build our own border wall. This is generally physical work involving lifting and carrying... which are the most common physical tasks required of soldiers And contrary to GEN Hokanson's statement, NG deployed on the border does do METL training. The actual complication is that due to the organic nature of the deployment, Guardsman get individual training, but not unit training with their home unit. They can't "train as a team" In my mind that is perfectly fine, as whatever has gone yellow or red in the METL spreadsheet is less important today's needs of defending America right now. When the Border Patrol is allowed to do their job again and Trumps wall is completed, perhaps the NG can get back to regular activities. The alternative is to have the TXSG do the majority of the work so GEN Hokanson's guardsman can focus more on their METL. Hokanson was running this: https://wehco.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/imports/adg/photos/197625780_197622639-7d691fac581e4e03b039b31ceb801dfe_t1000.jpg?cc6fa094ad523b984325c7879220d3883a443e7f So when he talks about how it is more important to be "building readiness to deter our adversaries" ... he doesn't mean defending America... he means defending the swamp from America A 2 week stint in DC is not the same as a 3 and a half year long border mission. You missed the part where this is unsustainable from multiple people including those who have actually been apart of this. The TXSG is not set up for this kind of work either. Quoted: FUCK Gen. Daniel Hokanson hes a goddamn liar and sucking the cock of Biden admin for cushy promotions and future job. he knows what he is expected to say. Where is he wrong? Playing border cop is not part of any units’ METL. Playing border cop has no military training value whatsoever. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 8:49:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're still missing the point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: GEN Hokanson should probably be more familiar with this: National Guard Regulation 500-5/ Air National Guard Instruction 10-208 1-1. Purpose Consolidate the policy and responsibilities for National Guard law enforcement support and mission assurance operations. Responsibilities 2-1. Chief, National Guard Bureau (CNGB) a. Serves as the principal advisor to the Secretaries of the Army and Air Force and to the Army and Air Force Chiefs of Staff on matters relating to the National Guard, the Army National Guard of the United States, and the Air National Guard of the United States, including domestic law enforcement support and mission assurance operations. GEN traitor said that "This is a law enforcement mission".... The written policy he MUST follow states: 5-4. Border Security Operations (BSO) a. Thirty-nine of the fifty-four states and territories with National Guard forces possess a land and/or sea territorial border. As such, National Guard border security-related activities occur on a regular, although typically temporary basis. b. Key to National Guard border security operations is the support provided to LEAs in the detection of transnational threats desiring entry to the homeland by land, maritime, or air conveyance along the northern, southern or maritime borders. Additional support activities include, but are not limited to: training, technical support, services, intelligence analysis, surveillance, the installation of communications towers, permanent and temporary vehicle barriers, and pedestrian fences. ...and develops future initiatives that support the National Guard and its role in border security/homeland security, and homeland defense operations. He is literally ABANDONING HIS DUTY. General Order 1 I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 8:55:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GEN traitor said that "This is a law enforcement mission".... The written policy he MUST follow states: He is literally ABANDONING HIS DUTY. General Order 1 I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: GEN Hokanson should probably be more familiar with this: National Guard Regulation 500-5/ Air National Guard Instruction 10-208 1-1. Purpose Consolidate the policy and responsibilities for National Guard law enforcement support and mission assurance operations. Responsibilities 2-1. Chief, National Guard Bureau (CNGB) a. Serves as the principal advisor to the Secretaries of the Army and Air Force and to the Army and Air Force Chiefs of Staff on matters relating to the National Guard, the Army National Guard of the United States, and the Air National Guard of the United States, including domestic law enforcement support and mission assurance operations. GEN traitor said that "This is a law enforcement mission".... The written policy he MUST follow states: 5-4. Border Security Operations (BSO) a. Thirty-nine of the fifty-four states and territories with National Guard forces possess a land and/or sea territorial border. As such, National Guard border security-related activities occur on a regular, although typically temporary basis. b. Key to National Guard border security operations is the support provided to LEAs in the detection of transnational threats desiring entry to the homeland by land, maritime, or air conveyance along the northern, southern or maritime borders. Additional support activities include, but are not limited to: training, technical support, services, intelligence analysis, surveillance, the installation of communications towers, permanent and temporary vehicle barriers, and pedestrian fences. ...and develops future initiatives that support the National Guard and its role in border security/homeland security, and homeland defense operations. He is literally ABANDONING HIS DUTY. General Order 1 I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved. No he's not, and you're forgetting the rest of what he said. Now you're quoting general orders at me as if it's relevant to the mission of a commanding General. Not surprising coming from the guy who thinks all there is to being an infantryman is marksmanship, fitness, and medical lmao. You don't know what you don't know, and you don't care to learn. You have a childlike view of the situation and are speaking with authority about things you know nothing about. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 8:57:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 2 week stint in DC is not the same as a 3 and a half year long border mission. You missed the part where this is unsustainable from multiple people including those who have actually been apart of this. The TXSG is not set up for this kind of work either. Where is he wrong? Playing border cop is not part of any units’ METL. Playing border cop has no military training value whatsoever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Much of what is being done on the border by the Guard is building barriers: Texas is the first – and ONLY – state in U.S. history to build our own border wall. This is generally physical work involving lifting and carrying... which are the most common physical tasks required of soldiers And contrary to GEN Hokanson's statement, NG deployed on the border does do METL training. The actual complication is that due to the organic nature of the deployment, Guardsman get individual training, but not unit training with their home unit. They can't "train as a team" In my mind that is perfectly fine, as whatever has gone yellow or red in the METL spreadsheet is less important today's needs of defending America right now. When the Border Patrol is allowed to do their job again and Trumps wall is completed, perhaps the NG can get back to regular activities. The alternative is to have the TXSG do the majority of the work so GEN Hokanson's guardsman can focus more on their METL. Hokanson was running this: https://wehco.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/imports/adg/photos/197625780_197622639-7d691fac581e4e03b039b31ceb801dfe_t1000.jpg?cc6fa094ad523b984325c7879220d3883a443e7f So when he talks about how it is more important to be "building readiness to deter our adversaries" ... he doesn't mean defending America... he means defending the swamp from America A 2 week stint in DC is not the same as a 3 and a half year long border mission. You missed the part where this is unsustainable from multiple people including those who have actually been apart of this. The TXSG is not set up for this kind of work either. Quoted: FUCK Gen. Daniel Hokanson hes a goddamn liar and sucking the cock of Biden admin for cushy promotions and future job. he knows what he is expected to say. Where is he wrong? Playing border cop is not part of any units’ METL. Playing border cop has no military training value whatsoever. TXSG is on the border now, and has been for a lot longer than 3.5 years. I just posted the written policy that says Border Security Operations (BSO) is the responsibility of the National Guard. As far as American military being police, it is so overdone there is even a movie about it:  Can We Finally Stop Trying to Police the World? Americans need to refocus on essentials. It’s time to stop playing GloboCop. The role never made sense. The Constitution sets the “common defense” as a vital job for the federal government. It is Washington’s most important duty since no state government can adequately fulfill that role. But the Founders meant the national authorities were supposed to defend Americans. Not the rest of the world. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 9:00:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TXSG is on the border now, and has been for a lot longer than 3.5 years. I just posted the written policy that says Border Security Operations (BSO). As far as American military being police, it is so overdone there is even a movie about it: https://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Team-America--World-Police-WP-team-america-3A-world-police-129929_1280_1024.jpg Can We Finally Stop Trying to Police the World? Americans need to refocus on essentials. It's time to stop playing GloboCop. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Much of what is being done on the border by the Guard is building barriers: Texas is the first and ONLY state in U.S. history to build our own border wall. This is generally physical work involving lifting and carrying... which are the most common physical tasks required of soldiers And contrary to GEN Hokanson's statement, NG deployed on the border does do METL training. The actual complication is that due to the organic nature of the deployment, Guardsman get individual training, but not unit training with their home unit. They can't "train as a team" In my mind that is perfectly fine, as whatever has gone yellow or red in the METL spreadsheet is less important today's needs of defending America right now. When the Border Patrol is allowed to do their job again and Trumps wall is completed, perhaps the NG can get back to regular activities. The alternative is to have the TXSG do the majority of the work so GEN Hokanson's guardsman can focus more on their METL. Hokanson was running this: https://wehco.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/imports/adg/photos/197625780_197622639-7d691fac581e4e03b039b31ceb801dfe_t1000.jpg?cc6fa094ad523b984325c7879220d3883a443e7f So when he talks about how it is more important to be "building readiness to deter our adversaries" ... he doesn't mean defending America... he means defending the swamp from America A 2 week stint in DC is not the same as a 3 and a half year long border mission. You missed the part where this is unsustainable from multiple people including those who have actually been apart of this. The TXSG is not set up for this kind of work either. Quoted: FUCK Gen. Daniel Hokanson hes a goddamn liar and sucking the cock of Biden admin for cushy promotions and future job. he knows what he is expected to say. Where is he wrong? Playing border cop is not part of any units' METL. Playing border cop has no military training value whatsoever. TXSG is on the border now, and has been for a lot longer than 3.5 years. I just posted the written policy that says Border Security Operations (BSO). As far as American military being police, it is so overdone there is even a movie about it: https://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Team-America--World-Police-WP-team-america-3A-world-police-129929_1280_1024.jpg Can We Finally Stop Trying to Police the World? Americans need to refocus on essentials. It's time to stop playing GloboCop. The role never made sense. The Constitution sets the "common defense" as a vital job for the federal government. It is Washington's most important duty since no state government can adequately fulfill that role. But the Founders meant the national authorities were supposed to defend Americans. Not the rest of the world. What other missions MUST he be prepared for that he CANNOT be prepared for because he's been deployed for so long? You may think the other mission is not worthwhile, but it doesn't fucking matter because he has been fucking TASKED with being able to execute that mission. And he can't. Hence he's saying his guys are wasting time and need to prepare for combat operations. Wasting time? Yeah, apparently. If they weren't the illegal immigration problem wouldn't be a problem right? You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 9:01:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No "military training value" isn't exactly the same as "no military value" or "no security value." |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 9:36:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Lets talk about "Unsustainable"
According to David Vine, ??professor of political anthropology at the American University in Washington, DC, the US had around 750 bases in at least 80 countries as of July 2021. With 120 active bases, Japan has the highest number of US bases in the world followed by Germany with 119 and South Korea with 73.  Over the past 70 years, the US military has been deployed to more than 200 countries and territories. Please note that Today there are only 195 countries in the world Apparently funding the Taliban is more important than America's borders: U.S. taxpayers may be funding the Taliban and Afghan terror groups, watchdog says The U.S. has provided more than $8 billion in aid to Afghanistan since the chaotic withdrawal of American troops in August 2021. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 9:43:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TXSG is on the border now, and has been for a lot longer than 3.5 years. I just posted the written policy that says Border Security Operations (BSO) is the responsibility of the National Guard. As far as American military being police, it is so overdone there is even a movie about it: https://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Team-America--World-Police-WP-team-america-3A-world-police-129929_1280_1024.jpg Can We Finally Stop Trying to Police the World? Americans need to refocus on essentials. It’s time to stop playing GloboCop. You might want to return your high school diploma or GED if you think you posted anything that said Border Security is the responsibility of the National Guard. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 9:45:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lets talk about "Unsustainable" According to David Vine, ??professor of political anthropology at the American University in Washington, DC, the US had around 750 bases in at least 80 countries as of July 2021. https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/0053_defense_comparison-full.gif Over the past 70 years, the US military has been deployed to more than 200 countries and territories. Please note that Today there are only 195 countries in the world Apparently funding the Taliban is more important than America's borders: U.S. taxpayers may be funding the Taliban and Afghan terror groups, watchdog says You're not really having the same conversation they are. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 9:54:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GEN traitor said that "This is a law enforcement mission".... The written policy he MUST follow states: He is literally ABANDONING HIS DUTY. General Order 1 I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved. I like how you underlined part of the the reg then ignored "although typically temporary basis." Doing this long term comes at the cost of other missions. |
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