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Posted: 1/2/2019 12:43:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Ultra vires!
Ultra vires! Ultra vires! Ultra vires! Outstanding work, Councilor!! Thank you!! God Bless you, your co-council, and Mark LaRue. 
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:24:59 PM EDT
[#2]
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Nope. But I am willing to give my own money to help him fight the idea that a President can just change the law by edict......even if I voted for him. He won't be President forever, and our opponents won't think twice about capitalizing on that precedent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do you really want to spend Mr. LaRues money fighting the NRA? can just change the law by edict......even if I voted for him. He won't be President forever, and our opponents won't think twice about capitalizing on that precedent. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:41:19 PM EDT
[#3]
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In order for the government to properly address that point, they would have to provide information. Something that they have apparently been reluctant to do, for some reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read through the lawsuit filing link posted on here and overall, it was pretty good. However the parts about questioning whether the rifles in the hotel room, all equipped with bump stocks, were even used in the Las Vegas massacre seemed a whole lot of conspiracy theory. That alone may cause a judge not on the side of the 2nd to nix it. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:46:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Check out Nolo's latest twitter followers, to see what "big names" are lurking in GD ?
Will they unfollow after they see this post? |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:49:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve already sued the FBI. I’ll sue the atf this month to comply with the other foia. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:51:10 PM EDT
[#6]
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Lots of different agencies are involved in that investigation. We know from the LV police that every 5.56 rifle was equipped with a bumpstock. Almost all of the brass recovered was from 5.56 rifles. While I've got no problem with asking the ATF to make a full report, you shouldn't expect them to find he didn't utilize a bump stock. Personally, I've done a decent amount of full auto shooting on many different platforms. I've also shot a lot of bumpstock equipped rifles. The audio clearly shows the use of bumpstock(s) through the varying cadence. It doesn't just ramp up speed through a belt lightening. Here is a video with all the gunfire put together in chronological order. You can clearly hear the varying tempo in several bursts. It sounds like a bumpstock does when varying forward pressure is applied.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krr4u6uGdzcSpent cases belong to bump stocked rifles. Ok. Who has verified none of those rifles were converted to fire automatically by DIAS/LL/third hole/coat hanger? |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:54:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check out Nolo's latest twitter followers, to see what "big names" are lurking in GD ? Will they unfollow after they see this post? 
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:54:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check out Nolo's latest twitter followers, to see what "big names" are lurking in GD ? Will they unfollow after they see this post? |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:54:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Great Job Nolo!
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:56:11 PM EDT
[#10]
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https://i.imgur.com/6bsCZvw.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Check out Nolo's latest twitter followers, to see what "big names" are lurking in GD ? Will they unfollow after they see this post?  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:57:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Good luck! |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:58:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Recovered rifles were equipped with bump stocks. Ok. Spent cases belong to bump stocked rifles. Ok. Who has verified none of those rifles were converted to fire automatically by DIAS/LL/third hole/coat hanger? The rate of fire sounded like a video that I saw of an individual firing a bump stock with a spring. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 2:58:50 PM EDT
[#13]
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What's his twitter name? |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:18:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would still like to know if a spring was used inside of the bump stock. The rate of fire sounded like a video that I saw of an individual firing a bump stock with a spring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Recovered rifles were equipped with bump stocks. Ok. Spent cases belong to bump stocked rifles. Ok. Who has verified none of those rifles were converted to fire automatically by DIAS/LL/third hole/coat hanger? The rate of fire sounded like a video that I saw of an individual firing a bump stock with a spring. Bump stocks being on the rifles and audio from cell phones doesn't rise to the level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, personally. I'm not party to any wild an crazy conspiracy theories. But at the same time I tend to agree with Len when he says the government only holds their cards close when they're bluffing. This is the purpose of FTB. Inspect the rifles. Determine whether they were converted MGs or semi-auto rifles in approved bump stocks. Show your work. That's all I'm asking. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:24:53 PM EDT
[#15]
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SNIP Who has verified none of those rifles were converted to fire automatically by DIAS/LL/third hole/coat hanger? Does anyone know who is in possession of the weapons right now? I'm guessing LVMPD. I doubt he went to the trouble of converting all the rifles to a machinegun and adding a bump stock to them. Some of the conversions are just as easy as adding the bump stock, perhaps easier if the timing issues are ignored. Hopefully a more thorough report will be released eventually. I don't expect to find machinegun conversions installed in the rifles. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:25:10 PM EDT
[#16]
I particularly liked the statement at 7:52 in this video: Former ATF Special Agent Vince Cefalu - "We don't legislate from a bureau" - "you make the laws, we'll enforce them" - "that's what the elected officials are for"
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:37:17 PM EDT
[#17]
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I’ve already sued the FBI. I’ll sue the atf this month to comply with the other foia. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read through the lawsuit filing link posted on here and overall, it was pretty good. However the parts about questioning whether the rifles in the hotel room, all equipped with bump stocks, were even used in the Las Vegas massacre seemed a whole lot of conspiracy theory. That alone may cause a judge not on the side of the 2nd to nix it. Either they are hiding something, or they have adopted an unofficial policy of not complying with foia (which shows a pattern of them ignoring the legal process). |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:44:21 PM EDT
[#18]
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No one has done so and made the information public. None of the images I've seen had a third hole. DIAS and additional hole conversions require the M16 FCG. LL requires a different carrier that most rifles don't have. Coat hangar/swiftlink is fairly simple, but timing has to be adjusted and it doesn't work with many nicer triggers (he had some fairly high end guns, I suspect a few came from the factory with upgraded triggers). Bumpstock works on all of them and provides the ROF issues heard in the videos. Does anyone know who is in possession of the weapons right now? I'm guessing LVMPD. I doubt he went to the trouble of converting all the rifles to a machinegun and adding a bump stock to them. Some of the conversions are just as easy as adding the bump stock, perhaps easier if the timing issues are ignored. Hopefully a more thorough report will be released eventually. I don't expect to find machinegun conversions installed in the rifles. |
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Posted: 1/2/2019 3:50:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No one has done so and made the information public. None of the images I've seen had a third hole. DIAS and additional hole conversions require the M16 FCG. LL requires a different carrier that most rifles don't have. Coat hangar/swiftlink is fairly simple, but timing has to be adjusted and it doesn't work with many nicer triggers (he had some fairly high end guns, I suspect a few came from the factory with upgraded triggers). Bumpstock works on all of them and provides the ROF issues heard in the videos. Does anyone know who is in possession of the weapons right now? I'm guessing LVMPD. I doubt he went to the trouble of converting all the rifles to a machinegun and adding a bump stock to them. Some of the conversions are just as easy as adding the bump stock, perhaps easier if the timing issues are ignored. Hopefully a more thorough report will be released eventually. I don't expect to find machinegun conversions installed in the rifles. -The point of the bump stock and a DIAS would be if a curious law enforcement officer were to come investigate reports of machinegun fire (while a person was adjusting and timing their coat hanger or swift link DIAS to function) would be perfect cover and most cops would not go any further investigating. -For the record I don't expect anything. I want to see the evidence. Since the govt. claims it can curtail my freedom and criminalize a swath of the population and an industry....I demand it. -DOJ and FBI as of late have a hard time being forthright and ATF has not been the bastion of honesty over the years. When you file FOIA's and take them to federal court and nine months later they are still playing "hide the winkie" with evidence....Well: 
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Posted: 1/2/2019 6:16:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryAgreed.
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Posted: 1/2/2019 6:25:40 PM EDT
[#21]
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Thanks, followed Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: I removed myself from the book of faces. |
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Posted: 1/3/2019 10:16:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of different agencies are involved in that investigation. We know from the LV police that every 5.56 rifle was equipped with a bumpstock. Almost all of the brass recovered was from 5.56 rifles. While I've got no problem with asking the ATF to make a full report, you shouldn't expect them to find he didn't utilize a bump stock. Personally, I've done a decent amount of full auto shooting on many different platforms. I've also shot a lot of bumpstock equipped rifles. The audio clearly shows the use of bumpstock(s) through the varying cadence. It doesn't just ramp up speed through a belt lightening. Here is a video with all the gunfire put together in chronological order. You can clearly hear the varying tempo in several bursts. It sounds like a bumpstock does when varying forward pressure is applied. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krr4u6uGdzcQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Fine, then providing evidence should not be a problem? Also I would not be too convinced of audio....Having been on set when firearms were used in filming. What you "heard" on TV is nothing like what was heard on set. So much so they have people on set who do nothing but audio. Ever wonder why they did a reveal not near any reflective surface (and always in the woods, swamp, open areas). Concrete and glass canyons tell me not to trust shit audio recorded mostly by cell phone. Flat reflective surfaces everywhere and echo's that sure sounded like more than one gun firing....But hey if your convinced I guess we should not enquire to see the evidence? It's entirely possible they were used (or were present, but used only as a butt stock). It does not change the fact that ATF currently claims to NOT have examined the firearms (We both know that's BS). Why would ATF refuse to officially examine firearms that are directly related to a policy/rule/edict that the acting ATF director told congress would end up in court? While I've got no problem with asking the ATF to make a full report, you shouldn't expect them to find he didn't utilize a bump stock. Personally, I've done a decent amount of full auto shooting on many different platforms. I've also shot a lot of bumpstock equipped rifles. The audio clearly shows the use of bumpstock(s) through the varying cadence. It doesn't just ramp up speed through a belt lightening. Here is a video with all the gunfire put together in chronological order. You can clearly hear the varying tempo in several bursts. It sounds like a bumpstock does when varying forward pressure is applied. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krr4u6uGdzcThey have lied too many times to be considered a valid source. Don't show me claims from untrustworthy people, show me the evidence. Government has lied and covered up way too many things to be taken seriously now. Those who don't question the narrative are more gullible than the conspiracy theorists. I don't wish for this thread to be derailed into a Vegas conspiracy thread. That can go on in the other thread this discussion has been occurring in. I do concur with @HistoricArmsLLC 's opinion that if the government is withholding such a crucial piece of information that would be a SLAM DUNK to prove with evidence, it's for a reason, which is NOT in the interest of transparency or The People. |
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Posted: 1/3/2019 10:33:56 AM EDT
[#23]
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They sell out fast. Mark has started sending email in addition to posting on ARFCOM. I finally got in on round 4, and mine is backordered. |
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Posted: 1/3/2019 10:51:34 AM EDT
[#24]
Whether bump stocks were used and the governments games concerning their use on October 1, 2017 in LV is NOT a trivial matter and must be run to ground.
I would like to point out that even if bump stocks were used it does not impact case at hand... The government with a straight face claims that if one person does evil with a device or item than it must be banned from existence? Why stop there? Insert any device, how about one that kills people everyday of the year? What if DOJ published this rule? What's to stop them? In order to prevent drunk drivers from hurting themselves or anyone else, your automobile has been declared illegal by DOJ and in 90 days you must turn your automobile in to us or destroy it or we will fine you a quarter of million dollars and put you in prison for ten years.... |
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Posted: 1/3/2019 11:25:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Look at it this way....
Bump stocks were used in either ZERO or ONE criminal event. The total number of people killed by weapons equipped with bump stocks is either ZERO or FIFTY EIGHT (58) That's not per year, that's not per day.... that is cumulative total. That is out of an estimated 500,000 bump stocks sold. To put that in perspective, according to the FBI (source) shotguns are used to commit an average of 284 murders PER YEAR. |
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Posted: 1/3/2019 11:30:14 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at it this way.... Bump stocks were used in either ZERO or ONE criminal event. The total number of people killed by weapons equipped with bump stocks is either ZERO or FIFTY EIGHT (58) That's not per year, that's not per day.... that is cumulative total. That is out of an estimated 500,000 bump stocks sold. To put that in perspective, according to the FBI (source) shotguns are used to commit an average of 284 murders PER YEAR. |
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Posted: 1/3/2019 11:32:26 AM EDT
[#27]
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Shotguns must be banned!!!!!!!!!111 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Look at it this way.... Bump stocks were used in either ZERO or ONE criminal event. The total number of people killed by weapons equipped with bump stocks is either ZERO or FIFTY EIGHT (58) That's not per year, that's not per day.... that is cumulative total. That is out of an estimated 500,000 bump stocks sold. To put that in perspective, according to the FBI (source) shotguns are used to commit an average of 284 murders PER YEAR. It's time to get the ents into the fight. To be fair, more mammals are killed in the United States each year by bolt action rifles and shotguns than by semi auto or full auto rifles. |
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Posted: 1/3/2019 12:36:41 PM EDT
[#28]
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I'd love to see that attempted. It's time to get the ents into the fight. To be fair, more mammals are killed in the United States each year by bolt action rifles and shotguns than by semi auto or full auto rifles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Look at it this way.... Bump stocks were used in either ZERO or ONE criminal event. The total number of people killed by weapons equipped with bump stocks is either ZERO or FIFTY EIGHT (58) That's not per year, that's not per day.... that is cumulative total. That is out of an estimated 500,000 bump stocks sold. To put that in perspective, according to the FBI (source) shotguns are used to commit an average of 284 murders PER YEAR. It's time to get the ents into the fight. To be fair, more mammals are killed in the United States each year by bolt action rifles and shotguns than by semi auto or full auto rifles. They still think the US military issues AR-15 rifles to our troops. They cannot grasp the simple fact that the US military does use pump shotguns. |
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Posted: 1/4/2019 6:12:53 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm excited to see this lawsuit. It has a lot of potential, however its most important aspect is to stop the unlawful making of law by a US government agency that has no Constitutional underpinning to regulate firearms or any other weapon.
We need to fund this with 100s of thousands of dollars, to show the government that we mean business. |
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Posted: 1/5/2019 6:15:14 PM EDT
[#30]
OST
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Posted: 1/6/2019 8:45:43 AM EDT
[#31]
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Don’t tell anyone this. I am actually human and make typos. But, don’t worry about that, because in a few days we will drop something shiny and new!!! Is it SOON yet? |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 8:59:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at it this way.... Bump stocks were used in either ZERO or ONE criminal event. The total number of people killed by weapons equipped with bump stocks is either ZERO or FIFTY EIGHT (58) That's not per year, that's not per day.... that is cumulative total. That is out of an estimated 500,000 bump stocks sold. To put that in perspective, according to the FBI (source) shotguns are used to commit an average of 284 murders PER YEAR. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 9:04:17 AM EDT
[#33]
And now there were three. Still no NRA.
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Posted: 1/6/2019 11:01:56 AM EDT
[#34]
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And now there were three. Still no NRA. 
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Posted: 1/6/2019 11:37:06 AM EDT
[#35]
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I'm $100 away from paying of the EPL too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And now there were three. Still no NRA. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 11:43:06 AM EDT
[#36]
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Get it paid off, and vote! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And now there were three. Still no NRA. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 11:44:23 AM EDT
[#37]
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Get it paid off, and vote! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And now there were three. Still no NRA. At least he’ll be in a position to make change unlike the never NRA complainers that want the NRA to fix everything using everyone else’s money. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 11:47:24 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get it paid off, and vote! |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 11:57:17 AM EDT
[#39]
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Ding ding ding, winner At least he’ll be in a position to make change unlike the never NRA complainers that want the NRA to fix everything using everyone else’s money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And now there were three. Still no NRA. At least he’ll be in a position to make change unlike the never NRA complainers that want the NRA to fix everything using everyone else’s money. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:14:30 PM EDT
[#40]
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The sad thing is, I have probably paid for enough yearly and gift memberships to buy a Life if I had it in all together at one time. Some years it was struggle to pay even a yearly (3 teen age boys can wolf some food down) and I could afford one now, but as long as the current leadership is in, they won't a dime. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Get it paid off, and vote! Quoted:
The only way to send WLP, CC, MH, et al is to withhold funding, not increase it. As long as they keep getting the money they'll keep changing the rules so they can stay in power. These folks are swamp critters. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:16:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can catch one of the times they are running a heavy discount on the life membership, and have the cash at the time, you can buy the right to vote against them, then sit back and withhold any further funding of their huge paychecks and half-assed lobbying. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:18:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only way to send WLP, CC, MH, et al is to withhold funding, not increase it. As long as they keep getting the money they'll keep changing the rules so they can stay in power. These folks are swamp critters. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And now there were three. Still no NRA. At least he’ll be in a position to make change unlike the never NRA complainers that want the NRA to fix everything using everyone else’s money. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:19:14 PM EDT
[#43]
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So, pay them so I can not pay them? No thanks, I'm going to skip straight to the "Not paying" part. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If you can catch one of the times they are running a heavy discount on the life membership, and have the cash at the time, you can buy the right to vote against them, then sit back and withhold any further funding of their huge paychecks and half-assed lobbying. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:20:22 PM EDT
[#44]
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Are you a voting member? |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:23:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can catch one of the times they are running a heavy discount on the life membership, and have the cash at the time, you can buy the right to vote against them, then sit back and withhold any further funding of their huge paychecks and half-assed lobbying. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:23:52 PM EDT
[#46]
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So, pay them so I can not pay them? No thanks, I'm going to skip straight to the "Not paying" part. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If you can catch one of the times they are running a heavy discount on the life membership, and have the cash at the time, you can buy the right to vote against them, then sit back and withhold any further funding of their huge paychecks and half-assed lobbying. I can definitely understand the motives behind both options. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:24:30 PM EDT
[#47]
How can we help fund the fight? Can someone send me an IM, or better yet, OP include instructions in his post?
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:24:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good news but I thought Larue supported a bumpstock ban defending it saying something about waterhoses or something. Or maybe they were defending the NRA asking the ATF to look into it being regulated. Could have been something else possibly. ETA fuck it. Don't matter now. Good on them for helping the case. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:26:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, it's a bitter pill to swallow, but it gives you a choice between saying "fuck those assholes, they ain't getting a dime from me", or saying "fuck those assholes, they are only getting just enough money to let me do what I can to fuck them over from the inside, then they aren't getting another penny". I can definitely understand the motives behind both options. |
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Posted: 1/6/2019 12:29:58 PM EDT
[#50]
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What if DOJ published this rule? What's to stop them? In order to prevent drunk drivers from hurting themselves or anyone else, your automobile has been declared illegal by DOJ and in 90 days you must turn your automobile in to us or destroy it or we will fine you a quarter of million dollars and put you in prison for ten years.... |
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