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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:07:43 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Middle school kids do not get the idea to try opioids unless street dealers are pushing the stuff. The whole "hey kid, try this... all the cool kids are doing it" stereotype was a load of crap dreamed up by the idiots pushing "Just Say No" propaganda. People are curious by nature and if they hear someone say "this pill makes you feel good", a significant number of folks want to try it just to see what it's like. Just the name "painkiller" is enough to make people want to try it and everybody has a mom, dad, aunt, uncle, or grandparent who has commented about painkillers at some point and it's never "oh those are terrible, don't ever try them because they make you feel bad!" Do you really think kids need to be pursuaded to try alochol, nicotine, or narcotics? That's like saying nobody would want sugar or sex if not for effective advertising. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:10:33 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cartels are responsible for drug use in the same way the grocery stores and restaurants are responsible for obesity. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:12:38 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is true; but we can close the drug grocery store. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:12:56 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess when drugs are pushed to teenagers I tend to place most of the blame on dealers. Opioid dealers often get people hooked on pills |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:13:54 PM EST
[#5]
so this gives Sessions something to do besides getting the clintons in the clink?
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:14:39 PM EST
[#6]
More laws... for the children!
A mating call for progressive dems and republicans alike. Sure, kids taking drugs is a problem. So are kids that are trafficked. But it's not right to ban 100% of activity because .01% involves children getting hurt. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:16:47 PM EST
[#7]
I have no data to back up my claim but I think it's just another overblown mostly made up media crap.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:17:01 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It worked for Portugal, every other "War On..." battle we've fought has been a waste, so let's try ending some of these prohibitions Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Like 98 percent responsibility falls on the user. There are the rare exceptions when people become hooked because of prescribed drugs, but theyre the exception not the rule. I've never done drugs. I've been offered them, but never used them. As a result, I've never had any of these problems. Legalize everything. Where does freedom enter any of this? |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:18:18 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bulllllllllshit. The whole "hey kid, try this... all the cool kids are doing it" stereotype was a load of crap dreamed up by the idiots pushing "Just Say No" propaganda. People are curious by nature and if they hear someone say "this pill makes you feel good", a significant number of folks want to try it just to see what it's like. Just the name "painkiller" is enough to make people want to try it and everybody has a mom, dad, aunt, uncle, or grandparent who has commented about painkillers at some point and it's never "oh those are terrible, don't ever try them because they make you feel bad!" Do you really think kids need to be pursuaded to try alochol, nicotine, or narcotics? That's like saying nobody would want sugar or sex if not for effective advertising. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:20:54 PM EST
[#10]
Let's not forget Hollywood who created a culture that glamorizes drug use. Think where we would be if Hollywood used their power to make drug use look dumb...
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:22:05 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like 98 percent responsibility falls on the user. There are the rare exceptions when people become hooked because of prescribed drugs, but theyre the exception not the rule. I've never done drugs. I've been offered them, but never used them. As a result, I've never had any of these problems. Legalize everything. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:23:34 PM EST
[#12]
I blame the ACA for providing tax payer subsidized opioids to bottom feeders who wouldn't have been able to afford them to begin with. Either by getting their own scripts or by buying cheap pills off people who do have the scripts. Now that docs are cutting back the scripts, they are switching to heroin because they have no other choice.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:27:23 PM EST
[#13]
Around here most kids start on Oxycontin and end up on heroin.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:29:13 PM EST
[#14]
Stupid dopamine reward pathway
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:31:11 PM EST
[#15]
No fucks given for junkies. No one forces them to consume those pills.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:31:23 PM EST
[#16]
Blame the government for a) making the drugs illegal, and thus suppliers making them much more powerful for efficiency, b) increasing the cost and complexity of health care to the point where doctors just prescribe you extremely addictive drugs instead of fixing issues like they used to, c) forcing taxpayers to fund very expensive drugs to revive junkies repeatedly, d) creating an enormous single mother society which leaves children much more likely to turn to drugs and crime, etc etc etc.
Prohibition is the problem. Regulation is the problem. Taxation is the problem. The state is the problem. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:38:58 PM EST
[#17]
its many aspects of blame
drug companies and doctors over prescribing pain pills users abusing the drugs after becoming hooked. govt tightening the supply of pain killers causes addicted people to search out more sources, which leads to meth or heroin kids will always be vulnerable if parents dont teach them about the perils of substance abuse |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:41:08 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess when drugs are pushed to teenagers I tend to place most of the blame on dealers. Opioid dealers often get people hooked on pills and then convince a user that IV is cheaper, easier whatever once that person is hooked. Often they give pills away for free at parties knowing that they'll create new customers. If a 30 year old Mexican was selling cheap moonshine to your middle school child would you say f*ck it and let the kid get blacked out every weekend or would you intervene? Or, really, the market in general---but that tends to happen when people get emotionally invested in a subject. (Check out a "price gouging" thread some time.) I mean, you wanna check out the freest market there is, study the black market in drugs. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:42:16 PM EST
[#19]
Many if not most states have greatly tightened up the prescribing rules for RX pain killers in the opioid class, which has cut into the legitimate supply.
This (essentially) created a new (or greatly increased) market for heroin, as nature abhors a vacuum. The law of unintended consequences at its finest here. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:44:44 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess when drugs are pushed to teenagers I tend to place most of the blame on dealers. Opioid dealers often get people hooked on pills and then convince a user that IV is cheaper, easier whatever once that person is hooked. Often they give pills away for free at parties knowing that they'll create new customers. If a 30 year old Mexican was selling cheap moonshine to your middle school child would you say f*ck it and let the kid get blacked out every weekend or would you intervene? I'm not responsible for every 30 year old swinging dick in the country and neither is the government. Eta: Thanks to our genius drug "prohibition" policy, it's easier for kids to buy narcotics than beer. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:45:40 PM EST
[#21]
I blame china
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:48:06 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is true; but we can close the drug grocery store. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cartels are responsible for drug use in the same way the grocery stores and restaurants are responsible for obesity. This is hypothetical, not mean to be an insult or demeaning, but for the sake of argument, let's say you are an alcoholic, or addicted to nicotine, and I mean like a three pack a day habit. Tomorrow, with the stroke of a pen, all stores in the U.S. suddenly stop selling alcohol and nicotine, flat out. A: Do you think that means no one will sell illegal alcohol and nicotine in shady and potentially dangerous ways? and B: Are you going to up and say "well, that's that then, guess I won't be drinking/smoking ever again. Shucks," or are you going to go right ahead and buy what you want/need illegally? |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:49:12 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many if not most states have greatly tightened up the prescribing rules for RX pain killers in the opioid class, which has cut into the legitimate supply. This (essentially) created a new (or greatly increased) market for heroin, as nature abhors a vacuum. The law of unintended consequences at its finest here. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:50:03 PM EST
[#24]
Drugs cause drug abuse like guns cause gun crime.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:50:37 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like you never went to parties in high school or college. Dealers offer freebies all the time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Bulllllllllshit. The whole "hey kid, try this... all the cool kids are doing it" stereotype was a load of crap dreamed up by the idiots pushing "Just Say No" propaganda. People are curious by nature and if they hear someone say "this pill makes you feel good", a significant number of folks want to try it just to see what it's like. Just the name "painkiller" is enough to make people want to try it and everybody has a mom, dad, aunt, uncle, or grandparent who has commented about painkillers at some point and it's never "oh those are terrible, don't ever try them because they make you feel bad!" Do you really think kids need to be pursuaded to try alochol, nicotine, or narcotics? That's like saying nobody would want sugar or sex if not for effective advertising. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:51:46 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Both. I want the National Guard on the border. Fuck 'em, you get one warning shot, if you dont turn a 180° and start running you get some .30 cal holes. then it is just a game. if you get dead when caught, then the stakes are much higher and it no longer is a game of entering illegally. that said, even if the boarder was secure, all it would do is increase the price of the drugs, if that. as it can be created domestically. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:52:10 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what I assume to be the cause of the current epidemic. The decriminalization of marijuana also shrank the demand for Mexican pot so cartels shifted their focus. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Many if not most states have greatly tightened up the prescribing rules for RX pain killers in the opioid class, which has cut into the legitimate supply. This (essentially) created a new (or greatly increased) market for heroin, as nature abhors a vacuum. The law of unintended consequences at its finest here. This is not for insult or demeaning purposes, just to give me a baseline on what you've been taught about drugs, and what phase of the WOD your formative years were in. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:53:17 PM EST
[#28]
How 'bout the medical community take some responsibility for over prescribing such medications?
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:55:56 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Both. I want the National Guard on the border. Fuck 'em, you get one warning shot, if you dont turn a 180° and start running you get some .30 cal holes. Gonna be mighty thin on the ground to cover it all. And mighty silly to ignore any parts for this idea to work. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 5:57:09 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question: how old are you? This is not for insult or demeaning purposes, just to give me a baseline on what you've been taught about drugs, and what phase of the WOD your formative years were in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Many if not most states have greatly tightened up the prescribing rules for RX pain killers in the opioid class, which has cut into the legitimate supply. This (essentially) created a new (or greatly increased) market for heroin, as nature abhors a vacuum. The law of unintended consequences at its finest here. This is not for insult or demeaning purposes, just to give me a baseline on what you've been taught about drugs, and what phase of the WOD your formative years were in. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:08:26 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who are you asking this question of? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Many if not most states have greatly tightened up the prescribing rules for RX pain killers in the opioid class, which has cut into the legitimate supply. This (essentially) created a new (or greatly increased) market for heroin, as nature abhors a vacuum. The law of unintended consequences at its finest here. This is not for insult or demeaning purposes, just to give me a baseline on what you've been taught about drugs, and what phase of the WOD your formative years were in. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:09:33 PM EST
[#32]
Blame the Afghans and druggies here.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:10:02 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question: how old are you? This is not for insult or demeaning purposes, just to give me a baseline on what you've been taught about drugs, and what phase of the WOD your formative years were in. When I was in highschool the druggy kids did prescription pills and overdoses were much much less common. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:15:55 PM EST
[#34]
Three choices:
1. We all live by what amounts to the rules of a prison camp to try to keep druggies from doing their druggie thing. 2. We spend unbelievable sums to treat this minority of druggies like kings and queens: endless free therapy, spa vacations at recovery centers, no consequences for crimes because they're "addicts", etc. 3. Freedom. Use whatever drugs, or not. The government is out of the business of telling you what to do. BUT: you must support yourself, pay for your own spa vacations when you feel the need to dry out, and be held accountable for crimes you commit while loaded or to further your addiction, or support your lifestyle because you can't hold a job. I pick 3. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:25:15 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm 30. When I was in highschool the druggy kids did prescription pills and overdoses were much much less common. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Serious question: how old are you? This is not for insult or demeaning purposes, just to give me a baseline on what you've been taught about drugs, and what phase of the WOD your formative years were in. When I was in highschool the druggy kids did prescription pills and overdoses were much much less common. ODs were also less common before various targeted interdiction efforts, along with prescription crack downs, caused the cost of transporting X units of opiates to go up. Since the end users tend to have less flexibility to accept price rises in this particular market, suppliers need to increase the potency of X units, to enable sellers farther down the line to cut the product more, giving the end users the same effect for the same price, but without cutting into profits. As a short term effect there was, and was bound to be, an increase in ODs as low level idiots failed to cut properly (especially with fentanyl and carfentanyl hitting the supply pipelines,) to account for the rising purity of a given package size. Frankly, absent our hyperactive 24/7 media and the requirement that government "do something!" the current "opiod epidemic" would likely already be over and done with. Instead there is tons of stupid government action that will prolong the problem (which is still far less of a problem than people think it is due to the constant media histeria.) For reference, I started as a police officer when you were 6, and have been in a dedicated major case narcotics unit for the last 11 years, with a plenty of drug work on patrol or in property crimes before that. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:26:25 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Three choices: 1. We all live by what amounts to the rules of a prison camp to try to keep druggies from doing their druggie thing. 2. We spend unbelievable sums to treat this minority of druggies like kings and queens: endless free therapy, spa vacations at recovery centers, no consequences for crimes because they're "addicts", etc. 3. Freedom. Use whatever drugs, or not. The government is out of the business of telling you what to do. BUT: you must support yourself, pay for your own spa vacations when you feel the need to dry out, and be held accountable for crimes you commit while loaded or to further your addiction, or support your lifestyle because you can't hold a job. I pick 3. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:35:41 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotcha---if memory serves you'd have been exposed to some pretty silly stuff, like DARE and the like. While I certainly cannotbe certain given the distance in time and space, I'd guess that there were kids in your school who did drugs that you never knew did, and the ones you knew about were probably mostly posers trying to look big, maybe with pills pinched from family, some of which probably weren't even narcotics. ODs were also less common before various targeted interdiction efforts, along with prescription crack downs, caused the cost of transporting X units of opiates to go up. Since the end users tend to have less flexibility to accept price rises in this particular market, suppliers need to increase the potency of X units, to enable sellers farther down the line to cut the product more, giving the end users the same effect for the same price, but without cutting into profits. As a short term effect there was, and was bound to be, an increase in ODs as low level idiots failed to cut properly (especially with fentanyl and carfentanyl hitting the supply pipelines,) to account for the rising purity of a given package size. Frankly, absent our hyperactive 24/7 media and the requirement that government "do something!" the current "opiod epidemic" would likely already be over and done with. Instead there is tons of stupid government action that will prolong the problem (which is still far less of a problem than people think it is due to the constant media histeria.) For reference, I started as a police officer when you were 6, and have been in a dedicated major case narcotics unit for the last 11 years, with a plenty of drug work on patrol or in property crimes before that. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:36:11 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Especially since option one doesn't even work----there are plenty of drugs in prison. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Three choices: 1. We all live by what amounts to the rules of a prison camp to try to keep druggies from doing their druggie thing. 2. We spend unbelievable sums to treat this minority of druggies like kings and queens: endless free therapy, spa vacations at recovery centers, no consequences for crimes because they're "addicts", etc. 3. Freedom. Use whatever drugs, or not. The government is out of the business of telling you what to do. BUT: you must support yourself, pay for your own spa vacations when you feel the need to dry out, and be held accountable for crimes you commit while loaded or to further your addiction, or support your lifestyle because you can't hold a job. I pick 3. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:39:34 PM EST
[#39]
For 46 years we have been fighting the War on Drugs.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:48:17 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For 46 years we have been fighting the War on Drugs. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:49:20 PM EST
[#41]
I didn't hear his speech. What is he advocating? A maximum prescription of 7 days for pain relief? I hope this isn't real. My wife uses Hydrocodone for back pain. Has for years. No increase in usage and not a junkie by any means. It already sucks she has to see the doc every month to renew what they know is for pain.
And I sympathize with the ab surgery. I've had two and likely going back for surgery to repair hernias caused by the original one that didn't stay fixed by the second one. Not worried about pain pills. heck they were giving them to me like candy and I have plenty left over. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:52:13 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a user problem by weak willed people. I have a bottle of oxy not 3 feet from me in a drawer. Last time I took one ( 2 or 3 months ago ) I fucked myself up pretty good and had a 1/2 so I could sleep that night, then back in the drawer they went. There is still 25 ish or so in there from when I got them a year ago ( 30 count ). They are handy as fuck when you NEED them, a big problem if you just WANT them. Anybody here saying it's big pharma's problem doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about other than thinking victim mentality is a good excuse for shit behavior. PSA don't drop your 500+lb motorcycle on yourself not once but twice on the same side in the span of ten minutes, fall on the other side.  
BTW I also have left over oxycodone. I was on them for months for pain. And I admit I liked them. But time came to quit I did. Unlike many on this forum I think the nature of addiction is different for all of us. It's like booze. I like it. Tell me I can't have any for a month I shrug my shoulders. Others would not react the same way. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 6:57:19 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no data to back up my claim but I think it's just another overblown mostly made up media crap. the reality is, if breaking bad had been about Heroin rather then Meth it would have been accurate for the state. Naloxone is now an OTC at walgreens here. seriously. I don't even live in a shitty poor area by any means and I see needles, spoons all over the place. any park I go by I have to watch out when walking my dog in some places to make sure he doesn't step on a needle. I know it ain't the diabetics tossing them out at the park and under the over passes. I stopped to check something on a car under an over pass one day, needles everywhere... Will slowing it at the border stop people who wanna do drugs? no, people are dumb and want to get fucked up, but it might make it more difficult for some to even get started in the first place. the cartels switched gears when weed started getting grown in the US. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 7:03:12 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its pretty bad down here. every few weeks I hear about someone else dying... some people will just say "my cousin died while using, she was trying to kick it" other say "they just went to sleep and didn't wake up" when they're too embarrassed to say they were using but you know what they mean. the reality is, if breaking bad had been about Heroin rather then Meth it would have been accurate for the state. Naloxone is now an OTC at walgreens here. seriously. I don't even live in a shitty poor area by any means and I see needles, spoons all over the place. any park I go by I have to watch out when walking my dog in some places to make sure he doesn't step on a needle. I know it ain't the diabetics tossing them out at the park and under the over passes. I stopped to check something on a car under an over pass one day, needles everywhere... Will slowing it at the border stop people who wanna do drugs? no, people are dumb and want to get fucked up, but it might make it more difficult for some to even get started in the first place. the cartels switched gears when weed started getting grown in the US. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have no data to back up my claim but I think it's just another overblown mostly made up media crap. the reality is, if breaking bad had been about Heroin rather then Meth it would have been accurate for the state. Naloxone is now an OTC at walgreens here. seriously. I don't even live in a shitty poor area by any means and I see needles, spoons all over the place. any park I go by I have to watch out when walking my dog in some places to make sure he doesn't step on a needle. I know it ain't the diabetics tossing them out at the park and under the over passes. I stopped to check something on a car under an over pass one day, needles everywhere... Will slowing it at the border stop people who wanna do drugs? no, people are dumb and want to get fucked up, but it might make it more difficult for some to even get started in the first place. the cartels switched gears when weed started getting grown in the US. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 7:15:45 PM EST
[#45]
Civilization HAS to work for the decent people who make IT work, or it won't endure.
At this point, we have reached a stage where it is the druggies, or the rest of us. You can't take any more money out of my pocket for this shit. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 7:19:24 PM EST
[#46]
There is no epidemic, it’s a draining of the gene pool ban narcan.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 7:19:26 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It worked for Portugal, every other "War On..." battle we've fought has been a waste, so let's try ending some of these prohibitions |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 7:25:03 PM EST
[#48]
Quoted:
It seems the GD stance on the opioid epidemic is to blame addicts. What about the other side of the equation? 90-95% of opioids in the U.S. come from Mexico. I have cousins in highschool who claim 13 and 14 year olds are using opioids. If drug dealers are targeting kids I would argue that this epidemic is largely due to predatory drug pushers. I believe the liberal media doesn't want to admit that Mexican cartels are responsible for the gruesome death toll of the opioid epidemic. It puts a completely different spin on immigration reform. Record fentanyl seizure. http://www.trbimg.com/img-599f93b2/turbine/sd-1503630255-okwz80hb3c-snap-image/800/800x450 |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 7:27:19 PM EST
[#49]
I blame Obama
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Posted: 10/26/2017 7:27:40 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Capitalism disagrees with you. |
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