They saved millions more lives by erasing thousands.

If they hadn't dropped those bombs we would have invaded and the Japanese we not going to go quietly. There might not BE many Japanese right now had we not dropped those nukes.

Edward Teller never liked Oppenheimer who didn't want nuclear proliferation

An Uncle (army) finished the Palau Island Campaign and was being staged on Okinawa

To paraphrase Jeff Cooper, Teller understood The Problem.

Yes, it was a necessary thing to do.

His quote (from Hindu script) was very appropriate.

"from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad Gita; Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and, to impress him, takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

Here is a one hour youtube video from Mark Felton on WWII Japanese Miltary Brutality.

His estimates are that the Japanese killed 30 million civilians in the years leading up to and through WWII.  

They made the decision to drop the bombs an easy one in my opinion.

Two was almost not enough.....

No worries, the dems are doing it themselves to our biggest cities.

Did he bring a Japanese bride home?

Again, history doesn’t care how we like to view ourselves, or anything that contradicts the perception we want to keep.

“Terror bombing” as a term to reference the intentional complete destruction of cities and their population, rather than strictly targets of military value, has its roots in the Spanish Civil War. It was more directly a quote from the German “terrorangriffe” as it was called by Goebbels. “Terror Bombing”, those two specific words, came from a misquote that was then widely accepted and referred. The quote was an AP cable that erroneously said

“Allied air bosses have made the long awaited decision to adopt deliberate terror bombing of great German population centres as a ruthless expedient to hasten Hitler's doom”

As a strategic notion, the allies absolutely embraced it. Churchill said

“It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed...”

Officially you’re right, there was no campaign referred to officially as “terror bombing”. It was referred to as strategic bombing, and then “area bombing” and later in the war “morale bombing” to make it easier for the average Americans to stomach.

This also refers to a specific time towards the end of the war, when there was a shift in strategy. In the earlier years, while it wasn’t perfect, aerial campaigns were not to deliberately target or strike areas of no military value. Essentially, the civilian population would not be deliberately targeted. Later in the war, under LeMay and others, it was insisted that the reason the enemy’s will hadn’t broken yet was that we weren’t hitting them at home where it mattered.

So we carried out bombing campaigns of entire cities and their population, nearly all civilians and with no military value, as a way to instill terror in the enemy and break his will to fight.

Yup. They were most of the most barbaric empires since Genghis Khan. Not losing any sleep over their vaporization.

It does not give you pride that America is the only country in existance to use atomic weapons in a war or conflict?

You're damn right it was worth it to blow up those sneak attack bastards.  There was no way they'd have surrendered otherwise.  The first dose didn't even convince them; it took another bomb to make them understand.  He and his team saved hundreds of thousands of lives and stabilized the world.  Too bad he got soft after exactly what he knew would happen, happened.

Both my grandfathers served in WWII. One in Europe and the other in the Pacific. The one who fought in Europe never had much bad to say about the Germans although he hated Italians for whatever reason.

The one who fought in the Pacific hated the Japanese to a comically irrational level till the day he died. It seems to be pretty common among WWII vets who fought in the Pacific theatre.

In anticipation of the casualties, the US military ordered 500,000 Purple Heart medals.

Thanks to the atomic bomb, we didn't run out of them until 2003 IIRC.

It also kept Japan from being partitioned between the US and the Soviets, creating another North/South Commie/Free conflict.

"It is an ancient Hindu text, quoted by an American."

"An American?"

"Yes, he developed the atomic bomb, and was later accused of being a communist."

Some people need to learn about Operation Cherry Blossoms at Night

It was absolutely necessary, if the nazi's had produced a bomb before us, we would have lost the war. Once we had it and Germany surrendered we had a choice,  either invade Japan itself and lose tens of thousands or more allied lives, or drop the bombs and end it. Personally I would have bombed Tokyo.

My grandfather spent most of WWII enjoying the hospitality of a Japanese POW camp after surviving the Bataan Death March.

Fuck those who think a couple A-bombs were uncalled for.

The more people you kill in a very short time, the less that end up dying in the long term.

That is/was one tough guy. WWII era Japanese were horrid.

IMHO we had to do it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

An invasion of mainland Japan would have likely resulted in a fuckton more deaths on both sides of the conflict.

ESPECIALLY if you consider fanatical Japanese civilians attacking the US Military.

It sucks we had to drop 2 atom bombs on Japan, especially in populated areas (Although IIRC their war factories were in the middle of the cities) but the alternative would have killed more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_incident

Also note this, right before the Emperor surrendered there was an attempted coup by Japanese hardliners who wanted to continue the war. Just thought it was an interesting read.

It was necessary and was the right decision.

But I can understand the guy being conflicted about it and it troubling him. Any decent human being should be introspective after killing someone, let alone 10s of thousands of someones. I would be more troubled if he wasn't introspective about it. Doesn't mean it was the wrong choice.

I imagine any good guy like a LEO or solider was has had to kill a bad guy, even when totally justified, is troubled sometimes by the experience and I would think that is totally natural for a normal person with feelings.

Yeah I think it comes off as arrogant and trying too hard to sound like a profound intellectual, which is saying something considering what he did. I understand what he did was profound, and he wanted to sound profound, but I think his accomplishment (and his team's) stands on its own merit without needing to throw out some edgy and moralistic spiritual quote. Now we have to live with people throwing out an overused quote in a vain attempt to replicate Oppenheimer's profoundness so that people perceive them as if they themselves are an intellectual.

I could be completely off base about Oppenheimer. I don't think I am about the people that seem to throw out that quote without any actual meaningful context and relevance though. We get it. You want people to think you are smart because you read something about one of the greatest minds ever reading something.

I guess I do know why I hate that quote.

At that point we had Japan in a complete blockade. They couldn't get hardly anything in

The cities were being bombed daily.   They were running out of food, fuel and most of everything.

The bomb was probably the best thing to happen. It ended the war, saving millions upon millions of deaths on both sides

Yep, he had Communist leanings.
It cost him his security clearance and much of his professional reputation although they determined he was never a threat to National security.

He was heavy into reading the ancient Hindu philosophy which he admits lead him to lean towards Communism.

Sadly revisionist historians ignore this fact when the label Truman a war criminal for dropping a few on Japan.

I had two uncles that would have been in on the invasion on my father’s side and one on mom’s.  

Odds were very good I would never have met 2 of them had they had invaded.  

I met Paul Tibbets and thanked him for saving Japanese lives.  Yeah, I mean he save a million Japanese at the minimum.

WWII Victory Celebration: V-J Day in California




World War II Ends. Honolulu

Other quotes about the Trinity test:

"Now I’m scared.” [Kenneth Greisen to I. I. Rabi, seconds before the Trinity detonation. Moments earlier, Rabi had asked Greisen
“Aren’t you nervous” as they lay on the ground. Los Alamos Historical Society (2002), p. 51]

“We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, “Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds. I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.” [Robert Oppenheimer on the Trinity test; interview in The Decision to Drop the Bomb, Atomic Archive movie]

“Now we are all sons of bitches.” [Kenneth Bainbridge to Robert Oppenheimer after Trinity test; Bainbridge in Wilson (1975) p. 230.]

“Suddenly, there was an enormous flash of light, the brightest light I have ever seen or that I think anyone has ever seen. It blasted; it pounced; it bored its way right through you. It was a vision which was seen with more than the eye. It was seen to last forever. You would wish it would stop; although it lasted about two seconds. Finally it was over, diminishing, and we looked toward the place where the bomb had been; there was an enormous ball of fire which grew and grew and it rolled as it grew; it went up into the air, in yellow flashes and into scarlet and green. It looked menacing. It seemed to come toward one. A new thing had just been born; a new control; a new understanding of man, which man had acquired over nature.” [I. I. Rabi description of Trinity test; Serber (1992) p. xvii, quoted from Rabi (1970) p. 138]

“The shot was truly awe-inspiring. Most experiences in life can be comprehended by prior experiences but the atom bomb did not fit into any preconception possessed by anybody. The most startling feature was the intense light.” [Norris Bradbury on Trinity test; Los Alamos Historical Society (2002) p. 53]

“I am sure that at the end of the world — in the last milli-second of the earth’s existence — the last man will see what we saw.” [George Kistiakowsky quoted in Laurence (1946) p. 11]

“I am about the only guy who actually looked at the damn thing — the first Trinity test. Everybody else had dark glasses, and the people at six miles couldn’t see it because they were all told to lie on the floor. I’m probably the only guy who saw it with the human eye.” [Richard Feynman, who viewed the Trinity test through an ultraviolet-light-absorbing truck windshield; Badash et al. (1980) p. 131]

“The light from the explosion was seen clearly at Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Silver City, El Paso, and other points generally to about 180 miles away. The sound was heard … generally to about 100 miles. Only a few windows were broken, although one was some 125 miles away. ... A crater from which all vegetation had vanished, with a diameter of 1,200 feet … In the center was a shallow bowl 130 feet in diameter and 6 feet in depth … The steel from the tower was evaporated … I no longer consider the Pentagon a safe shelter from such a bomb … Radioactive material in small quantities was located as much as 120 miles away … My liaison officer at the Alamogordo Air Base, sixty miles away [reported] a blinding flash of light that lighted the entire northwestern sky”. [Excerpts from General Groves’ report to Henry Stimson on Trinity test, July 18, 1945. The memo is reprinted in Groves (1983) pp. 433-440]

“Even though the purpose was grim and terrifying, it was one of the greatest physics experiments of all time.” [Emilio Segrè on the Trinity test; Segrè (1970) p. 145]

“The war is over.” [General Thomas Farrell to General Groves after the Trinity test. Groves claims that his response was “Yes, after we drop two bombs on Japan.” Groves (1983) p. 298]

“Anyway we think we have found the way to cause a disintegration of the atom. An experiment in the New Mexican desert was startling — to put it mildly. Thirteen pounds of the explosive caused the complete disintegration of a steel tower 60 feet high, created a crater 6 feet deep and 1,200 feet in diameter, knocked over a steel tower 1/2 mile away and knocked men down 10,000 yards away. The explosion was visible for more than 200 miles and audible for 40 miles and more. [President Truman diary entry, July 25, 1945; Ferrell (1996) p. 31]

“July 1945 at Alamogordo is the hinge of the century. Nothing after would ever be the same.” [Joseph Kanon in Kelly (2007) p. 146]

"Believe Japs will fold up before Russia comes in. I am sure they will when Manhattan appears over their homeland. I shall inform Stalin about it at an opportune time.” [President Truman diary entry, July 18, 1945; Ferrell (1996) p. 30]

“But I also think that it was a damn good thing that the bomb was developed, that it was recognized as something important and new, and that it would have an effect on the course of history. In that world, in that war, it was the only thing to do. I only regret that it was not done two years earlier. I would have saved a million or more lives.” [Robert Oppenheimer, New York Times Magazine, August 1, 1965, p. 8]

It would have been interesting to see Zhukov and Patton go at it.

Pretty much this.

2 bombs was enough.  Japan is a solid ally to the U.S. now.

Wrong.

They could have surrendered.  They not only didn't - they fought on, and tried to kidnap Hirohito to prevent a surrender.

False.

They didn't surrender before the first one.

They didn't surrender AFTER the first one.

Tells you all you need to know.

No separate peace negotiations and unconditional surrender were the terms the Allies agreed to at Yalta and Potsdam.  It wasn't anything POTUS had a choice in .

Well, if you seed enough big nukes with cobalt, you can really mess up things.

IIRC, Kruschev wanted to build a ship with thermonuclear bombs and cobalt, but after his fall from grace, the project was terminated, as eradicating all life from the surface was not seen as a positive step toward the inevitable triumph of international socialism.

OK - what kind of faggot bullshit did I just watch?

Not with nukes, anyways.

Army of the 12 monkeys?  I think that's more plausible.

We would have stopped sending them FOOD.  And trucks, ships, planes, tanks, avgas, motor gas, radios, wire, rails, locomotives, rail cars, vacuum tubes, light bulbs, explosives, ammunition, lumber, concrete - pretty much everything.  Soviet war machine comes to a halt 3 moths after we stop sending them stuff.

...and JFK had a NAZi spy girlfriend he couldn't stop screwing.  That's why his butt got sent to the Pacific.

Speaking of history - Japan was still advancing in China.  There was a very real prospect of a Japanese government in exile in China carrying on the war if the Home Islands were invaded.

We had more coming.  Read up on the use of tactical nukes and poison gas plans for Operation Olympic.

The Soviets rolled up Manchuria in a week.  The Chinese had already halted the Japanese, I doubt the Japanese could have stood for long against a combined American and Soviet invasion of China.