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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:11:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the biggest reasons I didn't register my three and just removed the braces, doing the registration is admitting to the BATF that you had what they considered to be unregistered SBRs. I know they have done NFA amnestys before, but I don't trust them to not prosecute people down the road  I predict they'll have a mandatory "buy back" when they go full out on "assault rifles". And they'll have the voluntary registry from this bs to help them. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:14:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Laws and rulings change over time, frequently for the worse, take advantage where you can, learn to live with the rest. That's the spirit! Turn in that gun powder colonist! |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:15:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you actually believe that the NFA “tax” isn’t a way to skirt Congress’ lack of authority to restrict the sale of firearms and require their registration? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nothing wrong with hoping they lose in court, while also taking action to save some money in the meantime. When you're a useful tool for Joe and Kamala, what then? Do you actually believe that 99.9% of the braces sold weren’t solely purchased in order to skirt the NFA? They were designed for the disabled, however, that’s not why they became popular and you know that just as well as I do. Do you actually believe that the NFA “tax” isn’t a way to skirt Congress’ lack of authority to restrict the sale of firearms and require their registration? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. The sad part of all this is that there are probably millions of braced pistol owners who aren’t even aware the NFA exists and don’t know they are “skirting the law”. They saw a cool gun at the gun show, gun store, maybe after seeing them on the range where people don’t talk except during brief cease fires. Average Submitizen thinks “sold in gun store, must be legal.” That’s the extent of it. Next month they will be felons. Actual intentional felons might put stocks on their unengraved, unregistered pistols and blend in with the herd of new, clean SBR owners. The feds will wait for a really bad actor to prosecute but the compliance will be really mixed on this item after a decade+ of open commerce and mass proliferation. Gun quislings ‘who support the 2nd Amd’ will turn in ‘violators’ in accordance with Stockholm Syndrome pathology of defeat and rationalization. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:16:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The funny part is what all you register bros gonna do when they tell you to register your AR15? Or your semiauto whatever? Is the rational gonna be "they already have my fingerprints and I've registered my brace, what does it matter now?". Yep. It's easier just to go along with it. The path of least resistance is very attractive to some. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:20:15 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The sad part of all this is that there are probably millions of braced pistol owners who aren't even aware the NFA exists and don't know they are "skirting the law". They saw a cool gun at the gun show, gun store, maybe after seeing them on the range where people don't talk except during brief cease fires. Average Submitizen thinks "sold in gun store, must be legal." That's the extent of it. Next month they will be felons. Actual intentional felons might put stocks on their unengraved, unregistered pistols and blend in with the herd of new, clean SBR owners. The feds will wait for a really bad actor to prosecute but the compliance will be really mixed on this item after a decade+ of open commerce and mass proliferation. Gun quislings 'who support the 2nd Amd' will turn in 'violators' in accordance with Stockholm Syndrome pathology of defeat and rationalization. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:25:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe a husband/father would be morally wrong to put himself at unnecessary risk of felony prosecution? They may be one of the body cowardice statements I've seen on here. I'm not calling you a coward, but that statement is  A good Dad lives life with a solid set of morals, not at the whims of a rogue bureaucracy who make things up as they go. Things that are not within their purview. Things that are unconstitutional. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:46:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or just remove the brace Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Everyone uses that excuse. as far as I know, people can still pay the 200 tax. Or just remove the brace I do wonder how those comments from the ATF will hold up. Removing an SBA3 brace and leaving a regular Milspec tube vs adding a pistol tube that cant accept a stock I do believe there are braces for those bare tubes so Idk how much of a difference it will really make in the long run. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:51:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do wonder how those comments from the ATF will hold up. Removing an SBA3 brace and leaving a regular Milspec tube vs adding a pistol tube that cant accept a stock I do believe there are braces for those bare tubes so Idk how much of a difference it will really make in the long run. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Everyone uses that excuse. as far as I know, people can still pay the 200 tax. Or just remove the brace I do wonder how those comments from the ATF will hold up. Removing an SBA3 brace and leaving a regular Milspec tube vs adding a pistol tube that cant accept a stock I do believe there are braces for those bare tubes so Idk how much of a difference it will really make in the long run. If millions of people were aware of the NFA and chose to ignore the ATF insisting they register...they ought to either remove and destroy the brace, or add a stock and convert to a machine gun. Why? Because if the braced firearm is an unlawful NFA item, then the penalty is the same for a MG as for an SBR, and it can't be both. To be clear, I'm not advocating converting firearms to machine guns unlawfully- just pointing out the ridiculous situation the ATF has created here. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 9:58:49 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 10:02:50 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. This whole situation almost makes me regret starting a Form4 earlier in the year for my first suppressor |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 10:24:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All these people shitting on registering, while I'm over here playing with my sbr glock 19 with a legal stock on it that I didn't have to pay another $200 for. Laws and rulings change over time, frequently for the worse, take advantage where you can, learn to live with the rest. Don't forget that you didn't have to get the Glock engraved. That's the biggest benefit in my eyes as engraving SBR's destroys the resale value should you decide to sell it someday. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 10:27:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If millions of people were aware of the NFA and chose to ignore the ATF insisting they register...they ought to either remove and destroy the brace, or add a stock and convert to a machine gun. Why? Because if the braced firearm is an unlawful NFA item, then the penalty is the same for a MG as for an SBR, and it can't be both. To be clear, I'm not advocating converting firearms to machine guns unlawfully- just pointing out the ridiculous situation the ATF has created here. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 10:29:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't forget that you didn't have to get the Glock engraved. That's the biggest benefit in my eyes as engraving SBR's destroys the resale value should you decide to sell it someday. While I prefer to not add NFA engravings it's just because I find it more aesthetically pleasing without them. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 11:09:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are no unlawful machineguns.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If millions of people were aware of the NFA and chose to ignore the ATF insisting they register...they ought to either remove and destroy the brace, or add a stock and convert to a machine gun. Why? Because if the braced firearm is an unlawful NFA item, then the penalty is the same for a MG as for an SBR, and it can't be both. To be clear, I'm not advocating converting firearms to machine guns unlawfully- just pointing out the ridiculous situation the ATF has created here. I'd argue that words have meanings-, and there might be unlawful machine guns, but they aren't illegal because the law.is unconstitutional. Or maybe they are illegal but not unlawful. I'm not sure how to phrase it. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 12:22:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 12:23:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure how to phrase it. The government doesn't follow its own rules, when it doesn't want to, but expects us to bend over backwards in following each new "interpretation" it comes up with. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 12:24:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Any progress on the court cases?
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Posted: 5/18/2023 1:11:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. 
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Posted: 5/18/2023 2:28:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Before registering I couldn't legally put a stock on my glock. Now I can carry a glock with a folding stock everywhere I go. Dance and sing about being a non-compliant patriot or whatever, but I got mine.
I'm already on countless lists. Various agencies and governmental groups have my fingerprints and access to much of my gun owning history. All the fuss is odd to me since I've gone through similar process for suppressors and other items. I didn't want this ruling, but here it is and the fact is that being non-compliant is a social justice warrior move, it won't change anything in the law. If you want to fight it, contribute money to a legal group, but all the worry about fib agents and aft agents storming your house because you signed a paper claiming you had an illegal sbr(not what's on the forms btw) is BS |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 2:33:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 2:35:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The sad part of all this is that there are probably millions of braced pistol owners who aren’t even aware the NFA exists and don’t know they are “skirting the law”. They saw a cool gun at the gun show, gun store, maybe after seeing them on the range where people don’t talk except during brief cease fires. Average Submitizen thinks “sold in gun store, must be legal.” That’s the extent of it. Next month they will be felons. Actual intentional felons might put stocks on their unengraved, unregistered pistols and blend in with the herd of new, clean SBR owners. The feds will wait for a really bad actor to prosecute but the compliance will be really mixed on this item after a decade+ of open commerce and mass proliferation. Gun quislings ‘who support the 2nd Amd’ will turn in ‘violators’ in accordance with Stockholm Syndrome pathology of defeat and rationalization. I ran into one yesterday. Thirty years old black guy I know and have mentored, he had no clue. He has several be built with parts kits .... he was totally in the dark about any of this. And you're right, I guarantee you there are going-to-be hundreds of thousands, if not millions, who have no clue. When they do find out, many will panic and beg for forgiveness or turn them in, forfeit them, etc. It's a damn mess. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 2:43:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Before registering I couldn't legally put a stock on my glock. Now I can carry a glock with a folding stock everywhere I go. Dance and sing about being a non-compliant patriot or whatever, but I got mine. I'm already on countless lists. Various agencies and governmental groups have my fingerprints and access to much of my gun owning history. All the fuss is odd to me since I've gone through similar process for suppressors and other items. I didn't want this ruling, but here it is and the fact is that being non-compliant is a social justice warrior move, it won't change anything in the law. If you want to fight it, contribute money to a legal group, but all the worry about fib agents and aft agents storming your house because you signed a paper claiming you had an illegal sbr(not what's on the forms btw) is BS What state are you in....because that may or may not be correct. Your Glock with a folder stock is not a pistol, it is an SBR. So unless you can carry a loaded RIFLE with you (and I'm not aware of any CCW laws that let you conceal a RIFLE), you would still have to remove the stock/brace to conceal it. That is what is being missed by so many people. If you want pistol "rules", you still have to have it in a pistol configuration. That means no braces OR stocks, even if you registered it. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 2:49:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. When this shitstorm all started I asked who would be willing to go stand with me, in front of an ATF office on the day after the amnesty expired, with an empty braced pistol. The answer was resounding silence. There's plenty that will criticize you for it, but the honest truth is that passive non-compliance won't do shit. Everybody wants to try the Ghandi approach, until it's time to actually get arrested. They'll just say shit like, "Should've paid cash", "Shouldn't have put it on a 4473", "I don't use public ranges, you should buy more land". |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 2:59:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. It’s politics unfortunately. Biden ran with the campaign goal of adding assault weapons to the NFA for years. This pistol brace rule is him delivering on it and getting what they call assault weapons into the Registry. I 100% agree that it’ll be used in the future. I agree because this isn’t their first time doing it, not even the tenth time. Not a new thing in this century or the last either. They have a well documented history of allowing stuff then reversing their decision. Shitty situation all around, really. I can’t fault anyone for the level of compliance they feel right. Whether it’s putting a longer barrel on, remove/destroy brace, Free Form 1, Paid Form 1. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 3:25:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What state are you in....because that may or may not be correct. Your Glock with a folder stock is not a pistol, it is an SBR. So unless you can carry a loaded RIFLE with you (and I'm not aware of any CCW laws that let you conceal a RIFLE), you would still have to remove the stock/brace to conceal it. Not the case here. And again, no fan of the new rule, but I'm going to take advantage of what I can and not just have a little patriot tantrum. I get fighting to stop this ruling, I don't get the self masterbatury speeches about not bending the knee. Get over yourselves and just do what works for you. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 3:37:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a damn mess.
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Posted: 5/18/2023 3:41:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not the case here. And again, no fan of the new rule, but I'm going to take advantage of what I can and not just have a little patriot tantrum. I get fighting to stop this ruling, I don't get the self masterbatury speeches about not bending the knee. Get over yourselves and just do what works for you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Not the case here. And again, no fan of the new rule, but I'm going to take advantage of what I can and not just have a little patriot tantrum. I get fighting to stop this ruling, I don't get the self masterbatury speeches about not bending the knee. Get over yourselves and just do what works for you. Where is "here"? And what exactly isn't the case? You said this: Before registering I couldn't legally put a stock on my glock. Now I can carry a glock with a folding stock everywhere I go. Dance and sing about being a non-compliant patriot or whatever, but I got mine. When you say carry everywhere you go, I'm assuming you mean concealed, but maybe my assumption is incorrect. Or is there a place where you can conceal carry an SBR? If so, please share. Sometimes there are too many state laws to keep track of. Did you mean open carry your SBR? Are you someplace where you have open carry for rifles, but not for handguns? And that last sentence....ooooof. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 3:47:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s politics unfortunately. Biden ran with the campaign goal of adding assault weapons to the NFA for years. This pistol brace rule is him delivering on it and getting what they call assault weapons into the Registry. I 100% agree that it’ll be used in the future. I agree because this isn’t their first time doing it, not even the tenth time. Not a new thing in this century or the last either. They have a well documented history of allowing stuff then reversing their decision. Shitty situation all around, really. I can’t fault anyone for the level of compliance they feel right. Whether it’s putting a longer barrel on, remove/destroy brace, Free Form 1, Paid Form 1. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. It’s politics unfortunately. Biden ran with the campaign goal of adding assault weapons to the NFA for years. This pistol brace rule is him delivering on it and getting what they call assault weapons into the Registry. I 100% agree that it’ll be used in the future. I agree because this isn’t their first time doing it, not even the tenth time. Not a new thing in this century or the last either. They have a well documented history of allowing stuff then reversing their decision. Shitty situation all around, really. I can’t fault anyone for the level of compliance they feel right. Whether it’s putting a longer barrel on, remove/destroy brace, Free Form 1, Paid Form 1. Yep…all “assault weapons” will be next and people will line up to get more freeBR’s. I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to be a test case for the ATF but there are plenty of ways to be compliant with the law without giving the D’s and ATF justification for the next rule change. All you have to do is remove the brace….or quit being poor and file a Form 1 the normal way. Personally I’d rather pay the $200 than play along with their next registration scheme. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 3:48:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not the case here. And again, no fan of the new rule, but I'm going to take advantage of what I can and not just have a little patriot tantrum. I get fighting to stop this ruling, I don't get the self masterbatury speeches about not bending the knee. Get over yourselves and just do what works for you. lol |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 3:59:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What state are you in....because that may or may not be correct. Your Glock with a folder stock is not a pistol, it is an SBR. So unless you can carry a loaded RIFLE with you (and I'm not aware of any CCW laws that let you conceal a RIFLE), you would still have to remove the stock/brace to conceal it. That is what is being missed by so many people. If you want pistol "rules", you still have to have it in a pistol configuration. That means no braces OR stocks, even if you registered it. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 4:14:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep…all “assault weapons” will be next and people will line up to get more freeBR’s. I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to be a test case for the ATF but there are plenty of ways to be compliant with the law without giving the D’s and ATF justification for the next rule change. All you have to do is remove the brace….or quit being poor and file a Form 1 the normal way. Personally I’d rather pay the $200 than play along with their next registration scheme. I’m not sure they’ll try to take the whole cake at once with it. Biden’s campaign has said for a decade or so, he wanted standard capacity mags in the NFA as well. I think they’ll chisel away at more registrations piece by piece, accessory by accessory. Unless it’s changed, the rule said remove and destroy/permanently alter the brace. The brace didn’t have to be installed on the pistol to be regulated as NFA. Taking the saw to property I purchased was a no for me, just like assembling them differently or any other way than the way I want. I went the paid option. Realistically though, they ended up being closer to $275 each, maybe less if you can get them engraved locally and aren’t paying shipping both ways. That might not be much to us, it can be to others though. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 4:22:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In Texas you can carry a loaded rifle concealed anytime you want. Thanks, I knew TX has some different laws that made AR pistols not as much of a benefit as other states, but I didn't know you could conceal carry an SBR. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 5:06:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When this shitstorm all started I asked who would be willing to go stand with me, in front of an ATF office on the day after the amnesty expired, with an empty braced pistol. The answer was resounding silence. There's plenty that will criticize you for it, but the honest truth is that passive non-compliance won't do shit. Everybody wants to try the Ghandi approach, until it's time to actually get arrested. They'll just say shit like, "Should've paid cash", "Shouldn't have put it on a 4473", "I don't use public ranges, you should buy more land". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. When this shitstorm all started I asked who would be willing to go stand with me, in front of an ATF office on the day after the amnesty expired, with an empty braced pistol. The answer was resounding silence. There's plenty that will criticize you for it, but the honest truth is that passive non-compliance won't do shit. Everybody wants to try the Ghandi approach, until it's time to actually get arrested. They'll just say shit like, "Should've paid cash", "Shouldn't have put it on a 4473", "I don't use public ranges, you should buy more land". Come on let's go smoke a joint in front of the DEA HQ. You aren't a man if you aren't willing. GTFOH with that ridiculous shit. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 5:27:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do wonder how those comments from the ATF will hold up. Removing an SBA3 brace and leaving a regular Milspec tube vs adding a pistol tube that cant accept a stock I do believe there are braces for those bare tubes so Idk how much of a difference it will really make in the long run. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Everyone uses that excuse. as far as I know, people can still pay the 200 tax. Or just remove the brace I do wonder how those comments from the ATF will hold up. Removing an SBA3 brace and leaving a regular Milspec tube vs adding a pistol tube that cant accept a stock I do believe there are braces for those bare tubes so Idk how much of a difference it will really make in the long run. Nowhere in the rule does it state that a mil spec tube is out of bounds. Conversely, it strongly infers that it is fine. And yes, I know the faq clearly says you need a pistol tube. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 5:32:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any progress on the court cases? FPC posted yesterday or day before that they are asking 5th circuit for an emergency injunction before May 31st. I would guess that has a low probability of success, but I'm hoping it works. This reminds me to throw a few more bucks to FPC. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 5:39:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. They didn't offer me any candy, but I did "register" my suppressors and other NFA items. This was long before the newest BS from the ATF. I've also purchased many firearms in the last 10 to 15 years from FFLs and filled out 4473 forms. What I don't do is hide my guns in a safe and never take them to the range because I'm afraid someone might ask if my firearms are "registered". If you're afraid of being caught by the law for using your firearms in public, then I suggest you examine your definition of compliance. The free candy in this case is a “free” stamp for a previously non-NFA gun. There’s a significant difference between this and following previously established decades old laws. This change will be a great test run for putting all the evil guns on the registry by ATF rule change and bypassing congress. Many gun owners are proving they’ll gladly register their guns for a “free” stamp. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/hes_right_you_know-328.jpg If they change the rules here, again, what will all your lines in the sand be then? And dont give me that 'do not comply!' bs. All that does is allow the gov to chip away at us as individuals. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 5:41:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the biggest reasons I didn't register my three and just removed the braces, doing the registration is admitting to the BATF that you had what they considered to be unregistered SBRs. I know they have done NFA amnestys before, but I don't trust them to not prosecute people down the road That is the biggest pile of bullshit that keeps getting posted in this thread. LEARN TO READ FOR YOURSELF What you posted is complete bullshit fear mongering and anyone that keeps posting it should be ignored. It's 98 pages, but it pretty clearly lays out the background and the fact they are changing what they have previously said. There are three avenues that you can go, pick one to stay within the law, it doesn't matter, as long as you do one of them. There's no reasonable way they can come after you for following the guidance they are giving. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 5:41:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When this shitstorm all started I asked who would be willing to go stand with me, in front of an ATF office on the day after the amnesty expired, with an empty braced pistol. The answer was resounding silence. There's plenty that will criticize you for it, but the honest truth is that passive non-compliance won't do shit. Everybody wants to try the Ghandi approach, until it's time to actually get arrested. They'll just say shit like, "Should've paid cash", "Shouldn't have put it on a 4473", "I don't use public ranges, you should buy more land". After this change, I will continue to use my guns in the same manner I did before. As I never stood in front of an ATF office with a pistol then, I won't be now. But I will use and carry what I want when I want and where I want. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 5:45:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, I knew TX has some different laws that made AR pistols not as much of a benefit as other states, but I didn't know you could conceal carry an SBR. Could be wrong but I don’t think Missouri cares about a concealed rifle either. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 5:45:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, I knew TX has some different laws that made AR pistols not as much of a benefit as other states, but I didn't know you could conceal carry an SBR. Whoops. Double post. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 5:48:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After this change, I will continue to use my guns in the same manner I did before. As I never stood in front of an ATF office with a pistol then, I won't be now. But I will use and carry what I want when I want and where I want. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When this shitstorm all started I asked who would be willing to go stand with me, in front of an ATF office on the day after the amnesty expired, with an empty braced pistol. The answer was resounding silence. There's plenty that will criticize you for it, but the honest truth is that passive non-compliance won't do shit. Everybody wants to try the Ghandi approach, until it's time to actually get arrested. They'll just say shit like, "Should've paid cash", "Shouldn't have put it on a 4473", "I don't use public ranges, you should buy more land". After this change, I will continue to use my guns in the same manner I did before. As I never stood in front of an ATF office with a pistol then, I won't be now. But I will use and carry what I want when I want and where I want. Which is exactly why we'll lose. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 5:55:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is the biggest pile of bullshit that keeps getting posted in this thread. LEARN TO READ FOR YOURSELF What you posted is complete bullshit fear mongering and anyone that keeps posting it should be ignored. It's 98 pages, but it pretty clearly lays out the background and the fact they are changing what they have previously said. There are three avenues that you can go, pick one to stay within the law, it doesn't matter, as long as you do one of them. There's no reasonable way they can come after you for following the guidance they are giving. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: One of the biggest reasons I didn't register my three and just removed the braces, doing the registration is admitting to the BATF that you had what they considered to be unregistered SBRs. I know they have done NFA amnestys before, but I don't trust them to not prosecute people down the road That is the biggest pile of bullshit that keeps getting posted in this thread. LEARN TO READ FOR YOURSELF What you posted is complete bullshit fear mongering and anyone that keeps posting it should be ignored. It's 98 pages, but it pretty clearly lays out the background and the fact they are changing what they have previously said. There are three avenues that you can go, pick one to stay within the law, it doesn't matter, as long as you do one of them. There's no reasonable way they can come after you for following the guidance they are giving. A healthy dose of skepticism isn’t necessarily a bad thing. An examiner I contacted told me to commit perjury today. I’m going to ignore their advice on that one.  If they try to “come after people later” they’ll only get one shot at it. Very few will comply then next time. If they keep the free stamps flowing for accessories, they’ll slowly get a chance to build their list. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 6:20:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which is exactly why we'll lose. Several years from now the courts will toss their brace rules. If we get lucky the courts will remove SBR's from the NFA. Unfortunately that is a much longer shot. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 6:45:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What state are you in....because that may or may not be correct. Your Glock with a folder stock is not a pistol, it is an SBR. So unless you can carry a loaded RIFLE with you (and I'm not aware of any CCW laws that let you conceal a RIFLE), you would still have to remove the stock/brace to conceal it. That is what is being missed by so many people. If you want pistol "rules", you still have to have it in a pistol configuration. That means no braces OR stocks, even if you registered it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Before registering I couldn't legally put a stock on my glock. Now I can carry a glock with a folding stock everywhere I go. Dance and sing about being a non-compliant patriot or whatever, but I got mine. I'm already on countless lists. Various agencies and governmental groups have my fingerprints and access to much of my gun owning history. All the fuss is odd to me since I've gone through similar process for suppressors and other items. I didn't want this ruling, but here it is and the fact is that being non-compliant is a social justice warrior move, it won't change anything in the law. If you want to fight it, contribute money to a legal group, but all the worry about fib agents and aft agents storming your house because you signed a paper claiming you had an illegal sbr(not what's on the forms btw) is BS What state are you in....because that may or may not be correct. Your Glock with a folder stock is not a pistol, it is an SBR. So unless you can carry a loaded RIFLE with you (and I'm not aware of any CCW laws that let you conceal a RIFLE), you would still have to remove the stock/brace to conceal it. That is what is being missed by so many people. If you want pistol "rules", you still have to have it in a pistol configuration. That means no braces OR stocks, even if you registered it. MD allows carry of anything except a full size rifle or shotgun on your carry permit, open or concealed, even a machine gun. But our 2013 AWB bans semiautomatic centerfire rifles under 29" OAL. But MD State Police also said braces are not rifles under MD law so you can still try to amnesty register your <29" pistol, you just can't put a rifle stock on it inside MD. Kharn |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 7:00:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't want this ruling, but here it is and the fact is that being non-compliant is a social justice warrior move, it won't change anything in the law. If you want to fight it, contribute money to a legal group, but all the worry about fib agents and aft agents storming your house because you Also this |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 7:09:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I predict they'll have a mandatory "buy back" when they go full out on "assault rifles". And they'll have the voluntary registry from this bs to help them. Question??? Do you REALLY believe they don’t know everything you have that was purchased on a 4473?? Why is this any different?? |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 7:19:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we'll win this battle. Just not in the short time frame everyone here wants. Several years from now the courts will toss their brace rules. If we get lucky the courts will remove SBR's from the NFA. Unfortunately that is a much longer shot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Which is exactly why we'll lose. Several years from now the courts will toss their brace rules. If we get lucky the courts will remove SBR's from the NFA. Unfortunately that is a much longer shot. I meant the ultimate 2A fight. The lack of willingness for the right to actually be activists will eventually be the downfall of productive organizations. I do think you are correct, and if there is not significant tinkering with the Supreme Court in the next 2-3 years, we will likely see this overturned. That said, I expect it to take 3-5 years of wrangling. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 7:30:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Congrats….you’ve helped the ATF learn they can get gun owners to register their guns as long as they offer a little free candy in exchange. Lol, so they learned nothing from millions of registered SBRs and suppressors that were offered by dangling a $200 stamp in exchange? But hey I'm edgy because I didn't cave to this brace rule while I cave to hundreds of other federal rules/laws 24/7/365.. |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 7:38:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When this shitstorm all started I asked who would be willing to go stand with me, in front of an ATF office on the day after the amnesty expired, with an empty braced pistol. The answer was resounding silence. There's plenty that will criticize you for it, but the honest truth is that passive non-compliance won't do shit. Everybody wants to try the Ghandi approach, until it's time to actually get arrested. They'll just say shit like, "Should've paid cash", "Shouldn't have put it on a 4473", "I don't use public ranges, you should buy more land". If you want to prove your point standing up to big gov rules, why would you be standing there with an EMPTY pistol? Are you going empty because you don't want to break some government rule? ?? |
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Posted: 5/18/2023 7:46:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, so they learned nothing from millions of registered SBRs and suppressors that were offered by dangling a $200 stamp in exchange? But hey I'm edgy because I didn't cave to this brace rule while I cave to hundreds of other federal rules/laws 24/7/365.. A conventional paid Form 1 conveys permission to build an SBR/SBS/AOW/suppressor, but isn’t prima facie evidence the NFA item exists. I knows guys sitting on approved but unbuilt Form 1 stamps from pre-41F days of no fingerprints, no photos, no CLEO notification. This registration drive is a little different. Whether it is used only at face value, or as a basis for further constraints remains to be seen, but the trend is toward less leniency in the future. The offer is gamed so that individual optimization (free & easy) may create a less optimal class (we all hang together) result. Some people think more registered SBRs supports common use & an eventual relaxation of SBRs from the NFA. I see it as a continuation of constrictions that started with bump stocks, moved onto Form 1 suppressor supplies, braced pistols and next is forced reset triggers and finally all semi autos. High profile events, public opinion, legislature & court changes, demographics all play into the poker tournament, but the house has control of the flow of players and bets allowed. |
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