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Quoted: Something like that needs to be Tard Proof (TM) on all levels. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Mechanically improperly installed plug door on a pressurized fuselage. Something like that needs to be Tard Proof (TM) on all levels. Tards are ingenious. Tard defeat experience and constant vigilance is required. |
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Quoted: Is this door new on the Max or is it a legacy carryover? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I would think they would really be looking for that door about now. The 2 upper points where that door is secured to the fuselage (with bolts or pins) seems to be undamaged from the pics shown inside and outside. Is this door new on the Max or is it a legacy carryover? There is a door located in the same position in the -900ER and MAX8-200 that I am aware of. |
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Quoted: Good point. I kept thinking "exit row, how could it not be filled?" but (1) it wasn't really an exit row, and (2) there wasn't a window to look out of so why bother sitting there. The teenager sitting in the middle seat was lucky he didn't want some space away from his mother, though. They were DEI'd up to the tits 25 years ago. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'd bet there was no conspiracy to that empty seat. No window, probably the worst seat on the aircraft. Good point. I kept thinking "exit row, how could it not be filled?" but (1) it wasn't really an exit row, and (2) there wasn't a window to look out of so why bother sitting there. The teenager sitting in the middle seat was lucky he didn't want some space away from his mother, though. Quoted: Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days? They were DEI'd up to the tits 25 years ago. The plugged door did have a window in it..... Attached File You can see it a few rows before the N-number |
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Fuck man. I feel bad for those people. First they lose the airplane door and then they got to land in Portland. What a fucking nightmare
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estimated location of the door mentioned
https://twitter.com/thenewarea51/status/1743850549135470939 |
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Quoted: estimated location of the door mentioned https://twitter.com/thenewarea51/status/1743850549135470939 View Quote @Chokey I wonder if they have primary radar return data on the door itself in free fall. |
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Quoted: Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement: Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo |
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Spoke to a Boeing senior engineer and he said the actual plug door failed.
When its installed it slides down like a garage door. There are 12 are pin blocks that are intact which means its the door and not the fuselage. You can see them in the pics. Triumph made the doors but were placed on non fly list and cant even bid on contracts anymore. They may have used a door that was made by them. The actual failure is in the beam/intercostal riveting. Spirit aerospace makes the fuselage in Wichita and would have actually installed the door |
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Quoted: In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement: Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: DEI engineering in a nutshell. Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days? In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement: Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo |
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Quoted: Spoke to a Boeing senior engineer and he said the actual plug door failed. When its installed it slides down like a garage door. There are 12 are pin blocks that are intact which means its the door and not the fuselage. You can see them in the pics. Triumph made the doors but were placed on non fly list and cant even bid on contracts anymore. They may have used a door that was made by them. The actual failure is in the beam/intercostal riveting. Spirit aerospace makes the fuselage in Wichita and would have actually installed the door View Quote Boeing subs out the fuselage? |
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Quoted: EDIT pic blocked... The plugged door did have a window in it.....https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/164047/513975_1689022917_jpg-3084762.JPG You can see it a few rows before the N-number View Quote I wonder if it folded out vertically from the center where the door itself failed and that caused the attachments to fail. They really do need to find that door. I bet they have a pretty good idea where it is based on the flight path and timing. |
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Quoted: Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black? View Quote Statistically speaking they are rare as hen's teeth. I knew one that was brilliant but sadly individual achievement means nothing in the world of population statistics. Just going off of numbers it's implied they are going to lower standards to reach their hiring goal. |
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Quoted: Statistically speaking they are rare as hen's teeth. I knew one that was brilliant but sadly individual achievement means nothing in the world of population statistics. Just going off of numbers it's implied they are going to lower standards to reach their hiring goal. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black? Statistically speaking they are rare as hen's teeth. I knew one that was brilliant but sadly individual achievement means nothing in the world of population statistics. Just going off of numbers it's implied they are going to lower standards to reach their hiring goal. |
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Quoted: Yeah. I can't say much since I have lost all of my original analysis at this point. "You don't need that stuff, it's ugly and takes up too much room. Here are a couple of fresh out of school guys to help you recreate it whenever you need". I need to find a new occupation because this industry is fucked. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: In the old days I would say the strength guy's analysis is, "The new door is the same as the old door. The door installation is identical. The new loads are the same as the old loads. Demonstrated adequate in service. MS > +0." Now I wouldn't bet much that anyone in Seattle could find the analysis or bother reading through to see what came before. Yeah. I can't say much since I have lost all of my original analysis at this point. "You don't need that stuff, it's ugly and takes up too much room. Here are a couple of fresh out of school guys to help you recreate it whenever you need". I need to find a new occupation because this industry is fucked. |
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Quoted: Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: DEI engineering in a nutshell. Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days? In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement: Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo I am stating that they should be striving to hire and promote the best engineers that they can, period. |
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on dc8's those doors were called type 1 doors. its considered an emergency exit, but alaska has those doors deactivated. you can see the bolts in the above pic.
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Quoted: Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: DEI engineering in a nutshell. Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days? In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement: Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo Come on, it’s not all or nothing. The number of black engineers hired relative to number graduating excellent engineering universities just don’t match up. In other words, they’re not all excellent, many graduated from lesser schools, and that’s fine as long as they are tasked and paid accordingly. Pretending they are all excellent and has no place in any serious industry. What I saw in 40 years working is employers lavished attention and advancement on above average women and blacks. Not necessarily top tier, but just above average. Employers want to minimize risk and that’s how they respond and even confirmed by Thomas Sowell. If you’re a white male but not very top tier you will flounder and not know why. |
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Quoted: I am stating that they should be striving to hire and promote the best engineers that they can, period. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: DEI engineering in a nutshell. Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days? In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement: Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black? For the +30 years I spent at Boeing, the number of good - not excellent - black engineers I knew of could be counted with one hand. It was obvious who the AA hires were. Same pretty much could be said for woman engineers as well; however it might take several hands. My last two bosses at Boeing were AA woman hires. The current site manager at Boeing Hsv is a woman and is a known AA hiring practioner. She's a shit boss. And speaking of Martin L King: Wasn't his dream "content of one's character mattered more than the color of ones skin"? Boeing is citing "his dream" while hiring based on nothing more than "the color of one's skin". No wonder they can't make a decent plane anymore: hiring shit engineers while pissing off the good white engineers and managers you already have. |
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Quoted: Come on, it's not all or nothing. The number of black engineers hired relative to number graduating excellent engineering universities just don't match up. In other words, they're not all excellent, many graduated from lesser schools, and that's fine as long as they are tasked and paid accordingly. Pretending they are all excellent and has no place in any serious industry. What I saw in 40 years working is employers lavished attention and advancement on above average women and blacks. Not necessarily top tier, but just above average. Employers want to minimize risk and that's how they respond and even confirmed by Thomas Sowell. If you're a white male but not very top tier you will flounder and not know why. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: DEI engineering in a nutshell. Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days? In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement: Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo Come on, it's not all or nothing. The number of black engineers hired relative to number graduating excellent engineering universities just don't match up. In other words, they're not all excellent, many graduated from lesser schools, and that's fine as long as they are tasked and paid accordingly. Pretending they are all excellent and has no place in any serious industry. What I saw in 40 years working is employers lavished attention and advancement on above average women and blacks. Not necessarily top tier, but just above average. Employers want to minimize risk and that's how they respond and even confirmed by Thomas Sowell. If you're a white male but not very top tier you will flounder and not know why. hmm wouldn't it be the responsibility of the lead or manager to ensure that the staff is on par? If a company is committed to diversity then they owe it to their clients to safeguard their product. It obviously benefits society to invest in minorities but only if minorities can lifted up to a certain standard. and of course it isn't fair to white engineers. life has never been fair. I wonder when we will get away from demographics all together. I watched my son apply for a job the other night-on the application it asked his preferred pronouns, race (he did have the option of declining-which might have been a wise move considering he's straight, white and male). Anyway we're never going to learn to ignore our differences by micromanaging our differences. *ETA* my flight from Orlando FL to Portland is canceled. Not sure how I'm getting home. |
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Quoted: Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black? View Quote It’s all about percentages. 13% of the US population is black. Boeing has 14,000 engineers in the USA with 12,000 in the Puget Sound area. You would need 2,400 - 2,600 black engineers. There are about 4,000 aeronautical engineering graduates in the USA every year. If we assume that the playing field is level and the same percentage of blacks go on to university as every other race and go in to the aeronautical engineering field at the same percentages as every other race then there would be 520 black aeronautical engineering graduates per year.. To make those assumptions you would need to assume that 71% of all college basketball players are white. In reality 53.6% of the players are black. |
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Is this where they're saying the door should be? When I looked at the flight track, max altitude was over Tualatin, which is where I'd assume it would be. |
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If you were the one sitting next to the thing when it blew out that's would be a pretty big "Shit your pants" situation.
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If I found the door would I be legally obligated to give it back?
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Quoted: If I found the door would I be legally obligated to give it back? View Quote |
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Quoted: In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement: Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: DEI engineering in a nutshell. Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days? In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement: Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo That policy was in place well before the crashes or the article was written. An offensive policy from the start, and doesn't scratch the surface of the internal rot. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Spoke to a Boeing senior engineer and he said the actual plug door failed. When its installed it slides down like a garage door. There are 12 are pin blocks that are intact which means its the door and not the fuselage. You can see them in the pics. Triumph made the doors but were placed on non fly list and cant even bid on contracts anymore. They may have used a door that was made by them. The actual failure is in the beam/intercostal riveting. Spirit aerospace makes the fuselage in Wichita and would have actually installed the door Boeing subs out the fuselage? Nearly every subassembly in an airplane. |
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Quoted: I was wondering about the door. That would be ugly being hit by it. What happened to Johnny? Oh he got hit by falling airplane parts. Isn't that the chances of winning the lottery (about the same as getting hit by flying airplane parts?) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: If I found the door would I be legally obligated to give it back? They want it back? They'd better bring their checkbook or I'm using it as a charcuterie board. Kharn |
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If push came to shove, I'm sure there's a way to have a court declare it as evidence. They'll get it back. Without paying a ransome.
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Quoted: Hmmm weird-statistics is a weird science. We use statistics in psychology and statistically speaking there's no reason blacks can't make excellent engineers. If I had to guess trauma could factor in. I really don't know what else would explain it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black? Statistically speaking they are rare as hen's teeth. I knew one that was brilliant but sadly individual achievement means nothing in the world of population statistics. Just going off of numbers it's implied they are going to lower standards to reach their hiring goal. |
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Quoted: I know the reason. Underlying talent compounded by sorry education and unwarranted trophy awards. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black? Statistically speaking they are rare as hen's teeth. I knew one that was brilliant but sadly individual achievement means nothing in the world of population statistics. Just going off of numbers it's implied they are going to lower standards to reach their hiring goal. |
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Quoted: Hmmm weird-statistics is a weird science. We use statistics in psychology and statistically speaking there's no reason blacks can't make excellent engineers. If I had to guess trauma could factor in. I really don't know what else would explain it. View Quote Several root causes there. The percentage of blacks in the population, the percentage that go to college, the percentage that are engineering majors, the percentage that graduate, and the percentage that are any good even if they do graduate. Less than half of black college entrants complete their degree in 6 years. Then look at total degree numbers: 19% of blacks over 25 have a college degree (not engineering, any degree at all) compared to 33% of whites. So you have 12% of the population, of which only about 20% of which 25 or older has a degree. So that gives us less than 2.4% of the population is made up of blacks with a college degree. Let's pretend that a third of those are engineers ( which is way too high) and that only a quarter of those are great engineers instead of marginal or just ok. That's less than a few hundred thousand people for the entire country giving a huge margin of leeway. No way can Boeing hire that many great black engineers because they don't exist to hire in the first place. Statistical data from: https://uncf.org/the-latest/the-numbers-dont-lie-hbcus-are-changing-the-college-landscape |
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Quoted: It's all about percentages. 13% of the US population is black. Boeing has 14,000 engineers in the USA with 12,000 in the Puget Sound area. You would need 2,400 - 2,600 black engineers. There are about 4,000 aeronautical engineering graduates in the USA every year. If we assume that the playing field is level and the same percentage of blacks go on to university as every other race and go in to the aeronautical engineering field at the same percentages as every other race then there would be 520 black aeronautical engineering graduates per year.. To make those assumptions you would need to assume that 71% of all college basketball players are white. In reality 53.6% of the players are black. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black? It's all about percentages. 13% of the US population is black. Boeing has 14,000 engineers in the USA with 12,000 in the Puget Sound area. You would need 2,400 - 2,600 black engineers. There are about 4,000 aeronautical engineering graduates in the USA every year. If we assume that the playing field is level and the same percentage of blacks go on to university as every other race and go in to the aeronautical engineering field at the same percentages as every other race then there would be 520 black aeronautical engineering graduates per year.. To make those assumptions you would need to assume that 71% of all college basketball players are white. In reality 53.6% of the players are black. AE's are a microscopic fraction working on these airplanes. The majority in the structures world are ME's and CE's, a few with rare Engineering Mechanics degrees, and an occasional physicist or masters degree mathematician. Chemists, metallurgists, ME's and others support the Materials and Processes groups. |
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Quoted: Idk usually those are weeded out in hell week. I agree with the above statement that they should be focused on the best engineers possible. If they are committed to hiring anyone then they have a duty to train them as well. The buck doesn't stop on the engineers desk. A lot of eyes had to have seen the designs before it was on the assembly line. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black? Statistically speaking they are rare as hen's teeth. I knew one that was brilliant but sadly individual achievement means nothing in the world of population statistics. Just going off of numbers it's implied they are going to lower standards to reach their hiring goal. Hell week does not exist in engineering schools, and how would a new student be eliminated after a week of classes that are barely spinning up for the semester. Besides that, thousands that barely get by receive degrees. I had a young black female recent hire that was so sorry that I checked to find out if she came from an ABET accredited school. She had an ME from Tuskegee. Part of the issue was that she hadn't worked for a lead that could train her, she had been assigned to a glamor spot (an initiative designed to place new hires in jobs that were not where the boring day to day work occurred so they would stay longer than a year or two) working for a manufacturing engineer that was equally clueless and best at assembling PowerPoint charts in any case - saleswoman, not engineer. Then you would be surprised by the review process. There is no assessment of airworthiness between drawing sign off and assembly or installation unless an assembly problem crops up that can't be ignored. On top of that, there are plenty of malicious actors in the shop that will fabricate bad parts strictly according to planning with errors and the parts in front of them to make engineering and planning look bad. The commercial side has slightly more thorough reviews, but don't count on them to dig deep enough into an analysis to uncover the "analysis looking analysis" that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. A real problem in Seattle are a few structural practices that are "we always do it this way", and they don't know the reason. On 747-8 I asked someone if a hinky detail had been tested, the answer was "0n the B-52". Well, that was a long time ago, the wing sweep was different, and this part crossed a line of incredulity that warranted a closer look. I also challenged a repeated detail subject to nuisance fatigue cracks, easily fixed at no more cost or weight. But as usual, it's easy for the designer to draw quickly. The airworthiness directives and and old design guide full of "do this, don't do that" examples for -200 airplanes backs me up. A nuisance fatigue crack (my terminology) is one that does not affect immediate airworthiness, but requires attention and cannot be ignored. The problem is usually less critical in sheet metal assemblies where the crack grows a short distance to the edge of (a small) part and is arrested. Now that sheet metal assemblies are becoming more and more rare, crack arresters are gone. A crack in a machined part grows farther to find an edge. If the crack reaches critical length the part fails. The loads in that part are redistributed to surrounding structure that is not capable of carrying the additional load. Folks should abandon the false notion that Boeing commercial was a once great engineering company. It was never better than a grade C. |
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