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Link Posted: 1/6/2024 11:30:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 1/6/2024 11:42:12 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:

Is this door new on the Max or is it a legacy carryover?
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I would think they would really be looking for that door about now.  The 2 upper points where that door is secured to the fuselage (with bolts or pins) seems to be undamaged from the pics shown inside and outside.

Is this door new on the Max or is it a legacy carryover?

There is a door located in the same position in the -900ER and MAX8-200 that I am aware of.

Link Posted: 1/6/2024 11:45:02 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Think about it, though...how the f__k does a plug door simply "blow out"?
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People are confusing a hole in the fuselage made for a door that is "plugged" with a door like assembly, and an actual plug style door (opens to the inside).
Link Posted: 1/6/2024 11:49:05 PM EDT
[#4]
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Good point.  I kept thinking "exit row, how could it not be filled?" but (1) it wasn't really an exit row, and (2) there wasn't a window to look out of so why bother sitting there.

The teenager sitting in the middle seat was lucky he didn't want some space away from his mother, though.


They were DEI'd up to the tits 25 years ago.
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I'd bet there was no conspiracy to that empty seat. No window, probably the worst seat on the aircraft.  

Good point.  I kept thinking "exit row, how could it not be filled?" but (1) it wasn't really an exit row, and (2) there wasn't a window to look out of so why bother sitting there.

The teenager sitting in the middle seat was lucky he didn't want some space away from his mother, though.

Quoted:
Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days?

They were DEI'd up to the tits 25 years ago.
EDIT pic blocked...

The plugged door did have a window in it.....Attachment Attached File


You can see it a few rows before the N-number


Link Posted: 1/6/2024 11:56:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Fuck man.  I feel bad for those people.  First they lose the airplane door and then they got to land in Portland.  What a fucking nightmare
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 12:02:50 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Fuck man.  I feel bad for those people.  First they lose the airplane door and then they got to land in Portland.  What a fucking nightmare
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The amber lamps that took the poor kid who got hurt to the hospital probably sat in traffic for 3-1/2 hours.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 12:21:07 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
The plugged door did have a window in it.....
You can see it a few rows before the N-number
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Oops!  Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 12:29:51 AM EDT
[#8]
estimated location of the door mentioned
https://twitter.com/thenewarea51/status/1743850549135470939
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 12:32:54 AM EDT
[#9]
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estimated location of the door mentioned
https://twitter.com/thenewarea51/status/1743850549135470939
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@Chokey

I wonder if they have primary radar return data on the door itself in free fall.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 12:47:53 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:

@Chokey

I wonder if they have primary radar return data on the door itself in free fall.
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I would say that is what they are implying.  They already have ADSB and radar data as well for the aircraft location at that time.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 12:54:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 1:22:20 AM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
Fuck man.  I feel bad for those people.  First they lose the airplane door and then they got to land in Portland.  What a fucking nightmare
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They took off from Portland heading to Cali, so however you break it down it might be a nightmare

Link Posted: 1/7/2024 2:51:18 AM EDT
[#13]
DEI and affirmative action making strides.


Link Posted: 1/7/2024 3:52:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days?
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DEI engineering in a nutshell.

Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days?


In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement:

Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 4:04:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Spoke to a Boeing senior engineer and he said the actual plug door failed.

When its installed it slides down like a garage door.  There are 12 are pin blocks that are intact which means its the door and not the fuselage. You can see them in the pics.

Triumph made the doors but were placed on non fly list and cant even bid on contracts anymore.  They may have used a door that was made by them. The actual failure is in the beam/intercostal riveting.

Spirit aerospace makes the fuselage in Wichita and would have actually installed the door
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 8:14:46 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement:

Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
DEI engineering in a nutshell.

Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days?


In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement:

Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo
Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 8:35:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Spoke to a Boeing senior engineer and he said the actual plug door failed.

When its installed it slides down like a garage door.  There are 12 are pin blocks that are intact which means its the door and not the fuselage. You can see them in the pics.

Triumph made the doors but were placed on non fly list and cant even bid on contracts anymore.  They may have used a door that was made by them. The actual failure is in the beam/intercostal riveting.

Spirit aerospace makes the fuselage in Wichita and would have actually installed the door
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Boeing subs out the fuselage?
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 9:29:41 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
EDIT pic blocked...

The plugged door did have a window in it.....https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/164047/513975_1689022917_jpg-3084762.JPG

You can see it a few rows before the N-number


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They are lucky it didn't smack into the horizontal stabilizer. If it failed at the hinge last it would be right in line.

I wonder if it folded out vertically from the center where the door itself failed and that caused the attachments to fail.

They really do need to find that door. I bet they have a pretty good idea where it is based on the flight path and timing.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 9:34:49 AM EDT
[#19]
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You must be in management.
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Airline mechanics, what are we looking at?


You must be in management.

Link Posted: 1/7/2024 9:35:20 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?
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Statistically speaking they are rare as hen's teeth. I knew one that was brilliant but sadly individual achievement means nothing in the world of population statistics. Just going off of numbers it's implied they are going to lower standards to reach their hiring goal.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 9:46:14 AM EDT
[#21]
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Statistically speaking they are rare as hen's teeth. I knew one that was brilliant but sadly individual achievement means nothing in the world of population statistics. Just going off of numbers it's implied they are going to lower standards to reach their hiring goal.
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Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?

Statistically speaking they are rare as hen's teeth. I knew one that was brilliant but sadly individual achievement means nothing in the world of population statistics. Just going off of numbers it's implied they are going to lower standards to reach their hiring goal.
Hmmm weird-statistics is a weird science. We use statistics in psychology and statistically speaking there's no reason blacks can't make excellent engineers. If I had to guess trauma could factor in. I really don't know what else would explain it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 9:47:22 AM EDT
[#22]
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Yeah. I can't say much since I have lost all of my original analysis at this point. "You don't need that stuff, it's ugly and takes up too much room. Here are a couple of fresh out of school guys to help you recreate it whenever you need". I need to find a new occupation because this industry is fucked.
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In the old days I would say the strength guy's analysis is, "The new door is the same as the old door.  The door installation is identical. The new loads are the same as the old loads.  Demonstrated adequate in service.  MS > +0."

Now I wouldn't bet much that anyone in Seattle could find the analysis or bother reading through to see what came before.



Yeah. I can't say much since I have lost all of my original analysis at this point. "You don't need that stuff, it's ugly and takes up too much room. Here are a couple of fresh out of school guys to help you recreate it whenever you need". I need to find a new occupation because this industry is fucked.
That mentality isn't just in defense/aerospace.  

Link Posted: 1/7/2024 9:52:06 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
Airline mechanics, what are we looking at?
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NOT a Mechanic but I am guessing whatever it takes to fix the hole plus new seat cushions throughout the cabin!
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:01:58 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
DEI engineering in a nutshell.

Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days?


In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement:

Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo
Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?


I am stating that they should be striving to hire and promote the best engineers that they can, period.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:02:47 AM EDT
[#25]


Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:07:35 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:


I am stating that they should be striving to hire and promote the best engineers that they can, period.
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Is any actual “engineering” happening anymore?  Or is it all plug-and-chug FEA nowadays?
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:08:06 AM EDT
[#27]
That door is grounded.

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:11:10 AM EDT
[#28]
on dc8's those doors were called type 1 doors. its considered an emergency exit, but alaska has those doors deactivated. you can see the bolts in the above pic.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:14:02 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
Fuck man.  I feel bad for those people.  First they lose the airplane door and then they got to land in Portland.  What a fucking nightmare
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They took off from Portland so they were there by choice.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:14:05 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
DEI engineering in a nutshell.

Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days?


In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement:

Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo
Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?


Come on, it’s not all or nothing. The number of black engineers hired relative to number graduating excellent engineering universities just don’t match up. In other words, they’re not all excellent, many graduated from lesser schools, and that’s fine as long as they are tasked and paid accordingly.  Pretending they are all excellent and has no place in any serious industry.

What I saw in 40 years working is employers lavished attention and advancement on above average women and blacks. Not necessarily top tier, but just above average. Employers want to minimize risk and that’s how they respond and even confirmed by Thomas Sowell.  If you’re a white male but not very top tier you will flounder and not know why.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:17:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Could this plane ever fly in service again?
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:18:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am stating that they should be striving to hire and promote the best engineers that they can, period.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
DEI engineering in a nutshell.

Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days?


In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement:

Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo

Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?
I am stating that they should be striving to hire and promote the best engineers that they can, period.


For the +30 years I spent at Boeing, the number of good - not excellent - black engineers I knew of could be counted with one hand.  It was obvious who the AA hires were.  Same pretty much could be said for woman engineers as well; however it might take several hands.  My last two bosses at Boeing were AA woman hires.  The current site manager at Boeing Hsv is a woman and is a known AA hiring practioner.  She's a shit boss.

And speaking of Martin L King:  Wasn't his dream "content of one's character mattered more than the color of ones skin"?  Boeing is citing "his dream" while hiring based on nothing more than "the color of one's skin".  

No wonder they can't make a decent plane anymore:  hiring shit engineers while pissing off the good white engineers and managers you already have.  

Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:23:26 AM EDT
[#33]
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Could this plane ever fly in service again?
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They can rework anything stretched or torn by the departure of the door and put it back in service. It's a hundred million dollar aircraft barely three months old.

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:32:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Come on, it's not all or nothing. The number of black engineers hired relative to number graduating excellent engineering universities just don't match up. In other words, they're not all excellent, many graduated from lesser schools, and that's fine as long as they are tasked and paid accordingly.  Pretending they are all excellent and has no place in any serious industry.

What I saw in 40 years working is employers lavished attention and advancement on above average women and blacks. Not necessarily top tier, but just above average. Employers want to minimize risk and that's how they respond and even confirmed by Thomas Sowell.  If you're a white male but not very top tier you will flounder and not know why.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
DEI engineering in a nutshell.

Is Boeing DEI'd up to the tits these days?


In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement:

Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo
Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?


Come on, it's not all or nothing. The number of black engineers hired relative to number graduating excellent engineering universities just don't match up. In other words, they're not all excellent, many graduated from lesser schools, and that's fine as long as they are tasked and paid accordingly.  Pretending they are all excellent and has no place in any serious industry.

What I saw in 40 years working is employers lavished attention and advancement on above average women and blacks. Not necessarily top tier, but just above average. Employers want to minimize risk and that's how they respond and even confirmed by Thomas Sowell.  If you're a white male but not very top tier you will flounder and not know why.

hmm wouldn't it be the responsibility of the lead or manager to ensure that the staff is on par? If a company is committed to diversity then they owe it to their clients to safeguard their product. It obviously benefits society to invest in minorities but only if minorities can lifted up to a certain standard.

and of course it isn't fair to white engineers. life has never been fair.

I wonder when we will get away from demographics all together. I watched my son apply for a job the other night-on the application it asked his preferred pronouns, race (he did have the option of declining-which might have been a wise move considering he's straight, white and male). Anyway we're never going to learn to ignore our differences by micromanaging our differences.

*ETA* my flight from Orlando FL to Portland is canceled. Not sure how I'm getting home.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:36:59 AM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:
Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?
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It’s all about percentages.
13% of the US population is black.

Boeing has 14,000 engineers in the USA with 12,000 in the Puget Sound area. You would need 2,400 - 2,600 black engineers.

There are about 4,000 aeronautical engineering graduates in the USA  every year. If we assume that the playing field is level and the same percentage of blacks go on to university as every other race and go in to the aeronautical engineering field at the same percentages as every other race then there would be 520 black aeronautical engineering graduates per year..

To make those assumptions you would need to assume that 71% of all college basketball players are white. In reality 53.6% of the players are black.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:42:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

Is this where they're saying the door should be? When I looked at the flight track, max altitude was over Tualatin, which is where I'd assume it would be.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:47:23 AM EDT
[#37]
If you were the one sitting next to the thing when it blew out that's would be a pretty big "Shit your pants" situation.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 10:47:31 AM EDT
[#38]
If I found the door would I be legally obligated to give it back?
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:01:27 AM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
If I found the door would I be legally obligated to give it back?
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I was wondering about the door. That would be ugly being hit by it. What happened to Johnny? Oh he got hit by falling airplane parts. Isn't that the chances of winning the lottery (about the same as getting hit by flying airplane parts?)
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:13:21 AM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:15:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:15:39 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I was wondering about the door. That would be ugly being hit by it. What happened to Johnny? Oh he got hit by falling airplane parts. Isn't that the chances of winning the lottery (about the same as getting hit by flying airplane parts?)
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If I found the door would I be legally obligated to give it back?
I was wondering about the door. That would be ugly being hit by it. What happened to Johnny? Oh he got hit by falling airplane parts. Isn't that the chances of winning the lottery (about the same as getting hit by flying airplane parts?)

They want it back? They'd better bring their checkbook or I'm using it as a charcuterie board.

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:18:28 AM EDT
[#43]
If push came to shove, I'm sure there's a way to have a court declare it as evidence.  They'll get it back.  Without paying a ransome.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:18:33 AM EDT
[#44]
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:23:16 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I know the reason.  Underlying talent compounded by sorry education and unwarranted trophy awards.


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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are you implying that you can't have excellent engineers who are also black?

Statistically speaking they are rare as hen's teeth. I knew one that was brilliant but sadly individual achievement means nothing in the world of population statistics. Just going off of numbers it's implied they are going to lower standards to reach their hiring goal.
Hmmm weird-statistics is a weird science. We use statistics in psychology and statistically speaking there's no reason blacks can't make excellent engineers. If I had to guess trauma could factor in. I really don't know what else would explain it.
I know the reason.  Underlying talent compounded by sorry education and unwarranted trophy awards.


Idk usually those are weeded out in hell week. I agree with the above statement that they should be focused on the best engineers possible. If they are committed to hiring anyone then they have a duty to train them as well. The buck doesn't stop on the engineers desk. A lot of eyes had to have seen the designs before it was on the assembly line.
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:24:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:31:23 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Probably before next weekend.  The hold up will be stealing a door slated for a new airplane down the line.

Unless the investigation concludes that all of the doors are bad.


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Do you really see the NTSB taking the tape off of that aiframe before next weekend?
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:31:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hmmm weird-statistics is a weird science. We use statistics in psychology and statistically speaking there's no reason blacks can't make excellent engineers. If I had to guess trauma could factor in. I really don't know what else would explain it.
View Quote

Several root causes there. The percentage of blacks in the population, the percentage that go to college, the percentage that are engineering majors, the percentage that graduate, and the percentage that are any good even if they do graduate.

Less than half of black college entrants complete their degree in 6 years. Then look at total degree numbers: 19% of blacks over 25 have a college degree (not engineering, any degree at all) compared to 33% of whites. So you have 12% of the population, of which only about 20% of which 25 or older has a degree. So that gives us less than 2.4% of the population is made up of blacks with a college degree. Let's pretend that a third of those are engineers ( which is way too high) and that only a quarter of those are great engineers instead of marginal or just ok. That's less than a few hundred thousand people for the entire country giving a huge margin of leeway. No way can Boeing hire that many great black engineers because they don't exist to hire in the first place.



Statistical data from: https://uncf.org/the-latest/the-numbers-dont-lie-hbcus-are-changing-the-college-landscape
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:31:52 AM EDT
[#49]
Link Posted: 1/7/2024 11:50:59 AM EDT
[#50]
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