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In the wake of 2 new 737s crashing, rather than recommitting to engineering excellence, they release this statement:

Boeing aims to increase Black employees by 20%, CEO says in memo

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This has gotten ugly for me. My flight home has been cancelled. I received an email saying so sorry we will get back with you. There's a 25 wait for chat and a two hour hold time by phone. I'm wondering if it would be prudent to go to the ticket counter. Looks like I'm missing the last day of my vacation.

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This has gotten ugly for me. My flight home has been cancelled. I received an email saying so sorry we will get back with you. There's a 25 wait for chat and a two hour hold time by phone. I'm wondering if it would be prudent to go to the ticket counter. Looks like I'm missing the last day of my vacation.

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Hell week does not exist in engineering schools, and how would a new student be eliminated after a week of classes that are barely spinning up for the semester.  Besides that, thousands that barely get by receive degrees.  I had a young black female recent hire that was so sorry that I checked to find out if she came from an ABET accredited school.  She had an ME from Tuskegee.  Part of the issue was that she hadn't worked for a lead that could train her, she had been assigned to a glamor spot (an initiative designed to place new hires in jobs that were not where the boring day to day work occurred so they would stay longer than a year or two) working for a manufacturing engineer that was equally clueless and best at assembling PowerPoint charts in any case - saleswoman, not engineer.

Then you would be surprised by the review process.  There is no assessment of airworthiness between drawing sign off and assembly or installation unless an assembly problem crops up that can't be ignored.  On top of that, there are plenty of malicious actors in the shop that will fabricate bad parts strictly according to planning with errors and the parts in front of them to make engineering and planning look bad.

The commercial side has slightly more thorough reviews, but don't count on them to dig deep enough into an analysis to uncover the "analysis looking analysis" that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

A real problem in Seattle are a few structural practices that are "we always do it this way", and they don't know the reason.  On 747-8 I asked someone if a hinky detail had been tested, the answer was "0n the B-52".  Well, that was a long time ago, the wing sweep was different, and this part crossed a line of incredulity that warranted a closer look.

I also challenged a repeated detail subject to nuisance fatigue cracks, easily fixed at no more cost or weight.  But as usual, it's easy for the designer to draw quickly.  The airworthiness directives and and old design guide full of "do this, don't do that" examples for -200 airplanes backs me up.

Folks should abandon the false notion that Boeing commercial was a once great engineering company.  It was never better than a grade C.

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VC-25 was in work when Trump was elected.  He negotiated a lower cost, Boeing signed on, and hasn't delivered either airplane.

Both were existing airplanes, so the delay is not due to elves with hacksaws, files, and chisels making the parts for the airplanes.  Or supply chain excuses for frames, skins, landing gear and the rest.

There is an excuse that security slows the work, but that is a weak excuse that sounds great to the outside world

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@Chokey

I wonder if they have primary radar return data on the door itself in free fall.

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From Reddit, Max-9 door plug being inspected. pic.twitter.com/EfAGJ6otWg

Chris  (@flyrogo) January 7, 2024

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDN4W5IXAAAUcVt?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

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That's a pretty stout door.

With every single one of the airframe attachment points appearing intact, what are the odds that 1) someone used substitute hardware of a much lower grade, or 2) was using an out-of-calibration or improper gun to run the fasteners down and badly overtorqued them? Held through the first hundred pressure cycles, but stretching and weakening until one failed and the others cascaded.

I guess out of spec bolts from the manufacturer would be a probability as well, but if that were the case why haven't "older" models failed?

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Things can always be worse


https://staradvertiser.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Aloha-243-color.jpg

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How do we know all the attach points are intact at this point?

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Could this plane ever fly in service again?

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Several root causes there. The percentage of blacks in the population, the percentage that go to college, the percentage that are engineering majors, the percentage that graduate, and the percentage that are any good even if they do graduate.

Less than half of black college entrants complete their degree in 6 years. Then look at total degree numbers: 19% of blacks over 25 have a college degree (not engineering, any degree at all) compared to 33% of whites. So you have 12% of the population, of which only about 20% of which 25 or older has a degree. So that gives us less than 2.4% of the population is made up of blacks with a college degree. Let's pretend that a third of those are engineers ( which is way too high) and that only a quarter of those are great engineers instead of marginal or just ok. That's less than a few hundred thousand people for the entire country giving a huge margin of leeway. No way can Boeing hire that many great black engineers because they don't exist to hire in the first place.

Statistical data from: https://uncf.org/the-latest/the-numbers-dont-lie-hbcus-are-changing-the-college-landscape

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Images taken by passengers show no damage to the frame around the neat rectangular hole. It appears that the plug, which is fastened to the airframe with just four bolts, came loose and fell away.

On Saturday, Alaska Airlines said that in the days before Friday's in-flight incident pilots had filed several reports of intermittent warning lights that indicated some loss of cabin pressure on the jet.

Jason Lai, Alaska's managing director of engineering, said these pressurization warnings were written up and "resolved per approved maintenance procedures."

As a result of those write-ups, the plane was then restricted from long-distance flying out over water, he said, but otherwise allowed to fly.

Alaska on Saturday initially said that inspections on 18 MAXs had already been completed and those jets cleared to fly. That later proved too hasty. The FAA was not satisfied that Alaska's inspections complied with the detailed requirements of the AD.

There is no immediate explanation as to why the plug blew out.

Photos and videos made by passengers inside the jet show clean metal brackets where the plug would be fastened, with no visible breaks, structural damage, deformations or tears in the metal.

In an interview Saturday, independent airline industry consultant Bob Mann said, “that makes me wonder if it was ever properly fastened.”

If not, he said, repeated pressurizations and depressurizations each time the jet flew could have gradually loosened it.

Chris Brady, an experienced pilot who runs the “Boeing 737 Technical Site” website, on Saturday posted a video showing a photo of the door plug and describing how it is installed. Brady’s technical assessments were cited in the U.S. House report into the two fatal MAX crashes.

His video, citing the 737 maintenance manual, states that the door plug is fastened with just four bolts to fittings inside the fuselage. The Seattle Times confirmed with an industry source that this is accurate.

“For this incident to have happened, something must have been amiss with at least one of those bolts, probably more,” Brady states in the video.

The entire fuselage of the jet, including this plugged door, is assembled in Wichita, Kan., by Spirit AeroSystems and arrives by train at Boeing’s Renton plant.

In Renton, Boeing mechanics and quality inspectors complete the cabin interior, adding the wiring, insulation and sidewalls that would cover the plug before adding the seats, galley, lavatories and other interior elements.

Investigators will hope to find the piece that fell somewhere south of Portland and will comb the manufacturing assembly and inspection records.

Mann said the lack of any deformation around the hole in the fuselage makes it look like the initial cause may be “a Spirit quality control issue.”

However Boeing has ultimate responsibility for the aircraft. The plug should have been inspected in Renton before the sidewall was installed to cover it.

And Alaska Airlines will also face questions about how it handled the indications of depressurization the days before, allowing the plane to continue to fly.

News of the depressurization warnings was first reported late Friday on The Air Current website.

Lai, Alaska’s managing director of engineering, said via email that “these types of aircraft pressurization system write ups are typical in large aircraft commercial aviation operations.”

“In every case, the write up was fully evaluated and resolved per approved maintenance procedures and in full compliance with all applicable FAA regulations,” he added.

Nevertheless, he said, “out of an abundance of caution,” Alaska Airlines has an internal policy to restrict aircraft with multiple maintenance write ups on certain systems from flying long distances over water, even when the reported faults are resolved.

That was the case for this aircraft. It was restricted from flying to Hawaii but cleared to fly to California.

“This internal policy is not required by any FAA regulation but is an additional ‘above and beyond’ safety precaution,” Lai said.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-737-max-9s-grounded-after-alaska-airlines-in-flight-blowout/

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With every single one of the airframe attachment points appearing intact, what are the odds that 1) someone used substitute hardware of a much lower grade, or 2) was using an out-of-calibration or improper gun to run the fasteners down and badly overtorqued them? Held through the first hundred pressure cycles, but stretching and weakening until one failed and the others cascaded.

I guess out of spec bolts from the manufacturer would be a probability as well, but if that were the case why haven't "older" models failed?

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Why not?  A lightweight door doesn't need to support pressure loads on its own, part of the load is passed to the fuselage via membrane loads.

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I always wear my seat belt when flying.  Not gonna stop

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We can't see behind the trim panel.

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Images taken by passengers show no damage to the frame around the neat rectangular hole. It appears that the plug, which is fastened to the airframe with just four bolts, came loose and fell away.

On Saturday, Alaska Airlines said that in the days before Friday's in-flight incident pilots had filed several reports of intermittent warning lights that indicated some loss of cabin pressure on the jet.

Jason Lai, Alaska's managing director of engineering, said these pressurization warnings were written up and "resolved per approved maintenance procedures."

As a result of those write-ups, the plane was then restricted from long-distance flying out over water, he said, but otherwise allowed to fly.

There is no immediate explanation as to why the plug blew out.

Photos and videos made by passengers inside the jet show clean metal brackets where the plug would be fastened, with no visible breaks, structural damage, deformations or tears in the metal.

In an interview Saturday, independent airline industry consultant Bob Mann said, "that makes me wonder if it was ever properly fastened."

If not, he said, repeated pressurizations and depressurizations each time the jet flew could have gradually loosened it.

Chris Brady, an experienced pilot who runs the "Boeing 737 Technical Site" website, on Saturday posted a video showing a photo of the door plug and describing how it is installed. Brady's technical assessments were cited in the U.S. House report into the two fatal MAX crashes.

His video, citing the 737 maintenance manual, states that the door plug is fastened with just four bolts to fittings inside the fuselage. The Seattle Times confirmed with an industry source that this is accurate.

"For this incident to have happened, something must have been amiss with at least one of those bolts, probably more," Brady states in the video.

The entire fuselage of the jet, including this plugged door, is assembled in Wichita, Kan., by Spirit AeroSystems and arrives by train at Boeing's Renton plant.

In Renton, Boeing mechanics and quality inspectors complete the cabin interior, adding the wiring, insulation and sidewalls that would cover the plug before adding the seats, galley, lavatories and other interior elements.

Investigators will hope to find the piece that fell somewhere south of Portland and will comb the manufacturing assembly and inspection records.

Mann said the lack of any deformation around the hole in the fuselage makes it look like the initial cause may be "a Spirit quality control issue."

However Boeing has ultimate responsibility for the aircraft. The plug should have been inspected in Renton before the sidewall was installed to cover it.

And Alaska Airlines will also face questions about how it handled the indications of depressurization the days before, allowing the plane to continue to fly.

News of the depressurization warnings was first reported late Friday on The Air Current website.

Lai, Alaska's managing director of engineering, said via email that "these types of aircraft pressurization system write ups are typical in large aircraft commercial aviation operations."

"In every case, the write up was fully evaluated and resolved per approved maintenance procedures and in full compliance with all applicable FAA regulations," he added.

Nevertheless, he said, "out of an abundance of caution," Alaska Airlines has an internal policy to restrict aircraft with multiple maintenance write ups on certain systems from flying long distances over water, even when the reported faults are resolved.

That was the case for this aircraft. It was restricted from flying to Hawaii but cleared to fly to California.

"This internal policy is not required by any FAA regulation but is an additional 'above and beyond' safety precaution," Lai said.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-737-max-9s-grounded-after-alaska-airlines-in-flight-blowout/

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Same.

One of my fears is being in the bathroom with the door closed during a rapid depress event and being blown out (hopefully only into the cabin) when the bathroom equalizes.

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Honestly with the odds being what they are that you’re pushing a deuce and the cabin structure has a catastrophic failure… it was just your time

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That little bit on the fwd side I'll agree it's possible it's still there, with the lock bolt location placement I'd believe that piece to be bigger though. On the aft side l, that piece is gone.

Eta the fwd piece looks to be there with the roller assy gone. That would be in line with the lock bolt.

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I piss a lot.  It's a nervous thing or something.  Not just on aeroplanes.  It has nothing to do with flying.

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I do too actually.  My bladder is undersize according to the doctor.

It actually sucks and can be embarrassing sometimes.

Boeing plans to eliminate up to 900 quality-control inspector positions as part of a sweeping transformation of its manufacturing system over the next two years. The idea is to move away from reliance on inspections by a second set of eyes to find any defects after a mechanic does a job. Instead, Boeing is redesigning tasks to make it easier for mechanics to get things right first time, and deploying smart tools and digital technology to track and monitor quality.

SEATTLE   Spurred by Boeing's recent litany of quality defects in production of the 787 Dreamliner, the 737 MAX and the 767-based KC-46 tanker, a congressional committee sent letters Tuesday to both Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration seeking pertinent manufacturing and quality control records.

The move, yet another setback for Boeing, signals a loss of confidence from the repeated quality lapses and comes after a drastic shift in Boeing's system of production quality control that since 2019 cut out thousands of quality inspection checks formerly performed after work was completed.

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Images taken by passengers show no damage to the frame around the neat rectangular hole. It appears that the plug, which is fastened to the airframe with just four bolts, came loose and fell away.

On Saturday, Alaska Airlines said that in the days before Friday's in-flight incident pilots had filed several reports of intermittent warning lights that indicated some loss of cabin pressure on the jet.

Jason Lai, Alaska's managing director of engineering, said these pressurization warnings were written up and "resolved per approved maintenance procedures."

As a result of those write-ups, the plane was then restricted from long-distance flying out over water, he said, but otherwise allowed to fly.

There is no immediate explanation as to why the plug blew out.

Photos and videos made by passengers inside the jet show clean metal brackets where the plug would be fastened, with no visible breaks, structural damage, deformations or tears in the metal.

In an interview Saturday, independent airline industry consultant Bob Mann said, "that makes me wonder if it was ever properly fastened."

If not, he said, repeated pressurizations and depressurizations each time the jet flew could have gradually loosened it.

Chris Brady, an experienced pilot who runs the "Boeing 737 Technical Site" website, on Saturday posted a video showing a photo of the door plug and describing how it is installed. Brady's technical assessments were cited in the U.S. House report into the two fatal MAX crashes.

His video, citing the 737 maintenance manual, states that the door plug is fastened with just four bolts to fittings inside the fuselage. The Seattle Times confirmed with an industry source that this is accurate.

"For this incident to have happened, something must have been amiss with at least one of those bolts, probably more," Brady states in the video.

The entire fuselage of the jet, including this plugged door, is assembled in Wichita, Kan., by Spirit AeroSystems and arrives by train at Boeing's Renton plant.

In Renton, Boeing mechanics and quality inspectors complete the cabin interior, adding the wiring, insulation and sidewalls that would cover the plug before adding the seats, galley, lavatories and other interior elements.

Investigators will hope to find the piece that fell somewhere south of Portland and will comb the manufacturing assembly and inspection records.

Mann said the lack of any deformation around the hole in the fuselage makes it look like the initial cause may be "a Spirit quality control issue."

However Boeing has ultimate responsibility for the aircraft. The plug should have been inspected in Renton before the sidewall was installed to cover it.

And Alaska Airlines will also face questions about how it handled the indications of depressurization the days before, allowing the plane to continue to fly.

News of the depressurization warnings was first reported late Friday on The Air Current website.

Lai, Alaska's managing director of engineering, said via email that "these types of aircraft pressurization system write ups are typical in large aircraft commercial aviation operations."

"In every case, the write up was fully evaluated and resolved per approved maintenance procedures and in full compliance with all applicable FAA regulations," he added.

Nevertheless, he said, "out of an abundance of caution," Alaska Airlines has an internal policy to restrict aircraft with multiple maintenance write ups on certain systems from flying long distances over water, even when the reported faults are resolved.

That was the case for this aircraft. It was restricted from flying to Hawaii but cleared to fly to California.

"This internal policy is not required by any FAA regulation but is an additional 'above and beyond' safety precaution," Lai said.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-737-max-9s-grounded-after-alaska-airlines-in-flight-blowout/

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I'm trying to reconcile the "held in place by just four bolts" quote. Four bolts where? Is there a hinge assembly at the bottom of that door?