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Quoted: Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. The Dresden Files by the same author. I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. I don't need my books to be like this at all. I mean adult situations are fine, but it really doesn't matter to me if the story, characters, and world building are good. One reason I like Sanderson, it's not that adult things don't happen, it just happens outside of the narrative which is fine. Game of Thrones is popular because it has great characters, it's dark, it's unpredictable, and tells a great story. Take away the tits and it would just as popular. If tits was all that mattered there would be a lot of really popular but shitty shows. A respectable counterargument. Going by your screen name and the fact that I tried to make sandalwood grips for my Vaqueros, we share similar tastes. I guess my only rebuttal would be...what's the other fantastically popular high fantasy series on TV? First, lets agree that it's okay to like different things Your stance doesn't bother me at all (just to clarify) I just think for a lot of people it doesn't really matter as long as the story is good. As to your question...I don't know TBH, I only have streaming services lol. Probably something with a lot of tits, but my follow up question would be this- would that show still be as high quality without the tits? In other news, I reread the Dark Tower series last year (well, the first 4 anyway) and they still hold up. What a great series. Too bad SK is such a dope. Also, I need a couple .45C Vaqueros.... Still my second favorite author--and he introduced me to my favorite author. Wanna see something neat? A crossover between what we're discussing (GoT) and the other? The character Bronn in Game of Thrones? He's your dad. Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. |
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Dresden Files. Adult Harry Potter in Chicago that is absurdly good. I fought jumping into this for so long and I loved it immediately.
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Quoted: Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. The Dresden Files by the same author. I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. I don't need my books to be like this at all. I mean adult situations are fine, but it really doesn't matter to me if the story, characters, and world building are good. One reason I like Sanderson, it's not that adult things don't happen, it just happens outside of the narrative which is fine. Game of Thrones is popular because it has great characters, it's dark, it's unpredictable, and tells a great story. Take away the tits and it would just as popular. If tits was all that mattered there would be a lot of really popular but shitty shows. A respectable counterargument. Going by your screen name and the fact that I tried to make sandalwood grips for my Vaqueros, we share similar tastes. I guess my only rebuttal would be...what's the other fantastically popular high fantasy series on TV? First, lets agree that it's okay to like different things Your stance doesn't bother me at all (just to clarify) I just think for a lot of people it doesn't really matter as long as the story is good. As to your question...I don't know TBH, I only have streaming services lol. Probably something with a lot of tits, but my follow up question would be this- would that show still be as high quality without the tits? In other news, I reread the Dark Tower series last year (well, the first 4 anyway) and they still hold up. What a great series. Too bad SK is such a dope. Also, I need a couple .45C Vaqueros.... Still my second favorite author--and he introduced me to my favorite author. Wanna see something neat? A crossover between what we're discussing (GoT) and the other? The character Bronn in Game of Thrones? He's your dad. Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. Oh damn, I just saw 2020 on it and some reviews and thought it was out already. Agreed, I loved all the first 4 but Wizard and Glass was just...that perfect book that completely consumed me while I was reading it. As you may have guessed, I had just finished reading it when I created my account here 21 years ago lol. |
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Quoted: LOTR wasn’t intended to be a series. Tolkien refused to call it a trilogy until he finally just gave up and accepted it. Breaking a large story into volumes was a common publishing style. If the first one flopped they had less invested in the printing. He also hated the return of the king title. It was a spoiler. The Tolkien illustrated one volume edition is pretty cool. I want some of the giclee prints. View Quote What? It was originally six books. They reduced it down to 3 volumes. His original intent was to create a parallel world with its own myths and legends. That is mainly shown through the Silmarillion. LOTR was a story he put together to answer the many questions that arose from the Hobbit. |
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Quoted: “Dies the Fire” was good, up to the conclusion of The Protector’s War (book 4?). After that, it really started going off the rails. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: “Dies the Fire” by SM Stirling is good for awhile. Yeah. That's a perfect description. First couple of books were really good and had me enthused...and then it sort of went generic fantasy novel #9. “Dies the Fire” was good, up to the conclusion of The Protector’s War (book 4?). After that, it really started going off the rails. first 3 or 4 dies the fire would make a great hbo/netflix series. it does go sideways later on. |
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Not fantasy, but you could read the Bible.
It contains the following; God the Father, Jesus the Son, The Holy Spirit Spiritual beings that fall and want to usurp the reign of God and take over Heaven, their leader is Halal Ben Shakur, better know as Satan, the adversary Physical mankind that God created after the spiritual family fell There are Giants also, similar to Greek mythology, where the fallen spiritual beings mated with the women of God's physical family creating Nephilim or Giants that are utterly evil There is judgement for the evil of both the spiritual family and the physical family Both families come together again after judgement to try and unite against God but He confuses their languages and spreads the out upon the earth giving leadership to the different Nations to the fallen ones, that is all but one. God reserves one Nation for His own. This Nations struggle to obey and follow God is full of wars, isolation, judgement, slavery, Giants, and prophets proclaiming God's Word showing how things will come to pass God sends a Savior to pay for mankind's sins against God, if they will only repent and follow God rather than the adversary The Savior pays the price that mankind cannot pay and at the end all those that follow will spend eternity with God The whole book can be described by 7 C's Creation, Corruption, Catastrophe, Confusion, Christ, Cross, Consummation |
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Quoted: In my case, I’d also been reading RJ’s WoT series, before starting Goodkind’s SoT series, and a few things in particular stuck out to me: TK’s writing wasn’t as polished as RJ’s. As mentioned, he tried to make his series more ‘adult’, but failed. And the little jabs at the WoT series, both showed his immaturity, and envy that RJ’s series was receiving far more accolades and had a much bigger fan base. I think I got to ~ book 5 of the SoT series, before giving up on it. That seems to be my average, for longer series that I feel like I’m slogging through. I consider that to be giving them a fair shot. If they haven’t gotten any better by then, they aren’t going to. That’s also about how far I got with A.American’s Going Home series. Recommended by a buddy, for the post-apocalyptic genre. Forced myself to read 4 more in the series, after reading the first (which I found hilariously bad), hoping it would get better. Nope. Franklin Horton’s ‘Borrowed World’ series (and The Mad Mick spinoff series), are far better, in that genre. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. In my case, I’d also been reading RJ’s WoT series, before starting Goodkind’s SoT series, and a few things in particular stuck out to me: TK’s writing wasn’t as polished as RJ’s. As mentioned, he tried to make his series more ‘adult’, but failed. And the little jabs at the WoT series, both showed his immaturity, and envy that RJ’s series was receiving far more accolades and had a much bigger fan base. I think I got to ~ book 5 of the SoT series, before giving up on it. That seems to be my average, for longer series that I feel like I’m slogging through. I consider that to be giving them a fair shot. If they haven’t gotten any better by then, they aren’t going to. That’s also about how far I got with A.American’s Going Home series. Recommended by a buddy, for the post-apocalyptic genre. Forced myself to read 4 more in the series, after reading the first (which I found hilariously bad), hoping it would get better. Nope. Franklin Horton’s ‘Borrowed World’ series (and The Mad Mick spinoff series), are far better, in that genre. There was a time in my life when I believed that Terry Goodkind was a nom de plume of Robert Jordan's. I thought they were the same author. |
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Quoted: Oh damn, I just saw 2020 on it and some reviews and thought it was out already. Agreed, I loved all the first 4 but Wizard and Glass was just...that perfect book that completely consumed me while I was reading it. As you may have guessed, I had just finished reading it when I created my account here 21 years ago lol. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. The Dresden Files by the same author. I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. I don't need my books to be like this at all. I mean adult situations are fine, but it really doesn't matter to me if the story, characters, and world building are good. One reason I like Sanderson, it's not that adult things don't happen, it just happens outside of the narrative which is fine. Game of Thrones is popular because it has great characters, it's dark, it's unpredictable, and tells a great story. Take away the tits and it would just as popular. If tits was all that mattered there would be a lot of really popular but shitty shows. A respectable counterargument. Going by your screen name and the fact that I tried to make sandalwood grips for my Vaqueros, we share similar tastes. I guess my only rebuttal would be...what's the other fantastically popular high fantasy series on TV? First, lets agree that it's okay to like different things Your stance doesn't bother me at all (just to clarify) I just think for a lot of people it doesn't really matter as long as the story is good. As to your question...I don't know TBH, I only have streaming services lol. Probably something with a lot of tits, but my follow up question would be this- would that show still be as high quality without the tits? In other news, I reread the Dark Tower series last year (well, the first 4 anyway) and they still hold up. What a great series. Too bad SK is such a dope. Also, I need a couple .45C Vaqueros.... Still my second favorite author--and he introduced me to my favorite author. Wanna see something neat? A crossover between what we're discussing (GoT) and the other? The character Bronn in Game of Thrones? He's your dad. Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. Oh damn, I just saw 2020 on it and some reviews and thought it was out already. Agreed, I loved all the first 4 but Wizard and Glass was just...that perfect book that completely consumed me while I was reading it. As you may have guessed, I had just finished reading it when I created my account here 21 years ago lol. I had the same reaction to it. So did my wife. It is by far the best of the series. |
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Quoted: My son and I are big fans, and agree on the show concept. To be done well it would cost a fortune though. It would be awesome (and affordable) of done as anime. They could also then get away with all the blood and gore without a tv ma rating. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: red rising is tier 1 space opera. blends roman and greek types with science fiction, including super vikings and similar. really screams to be made into a hbo/netflix multi-season show. My son and I are big fans, and agree on the show concept. To be done well it would cost a fortune though. It would be awesome (and affordable) of done as anime. They could also then get away with all the blood and gore without a tv ma rating. the cost would be high yes. they could be made into movies perhaps. after seeing the CGI in the guardians of the galaxy, avengers infinity war and end-game, and the harry potter series the tech is capable of making the shows. |
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Apologies if this was suggested already...
Destroyer Men by Taylor Anderson |
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Quoted: Huh. Maybe this is the real reason why it isn't done more commonly. The best I've seen (in high fantasy) was the Melanie Rawn mentioned earlier--a woman. That's a pretty decent observation. Having said that--do you think there are a lot of female high fantasy readers? I'm interested in your answer: I honestly don't know. I thought my wife was an outlier. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Probably for the best. Dudes can't write about good sex. Or at least not for woman readers. *forcefield activated Huh. Maybe this is the real reason why it isn't done more commonly. The best I've seen (in high fantasy) was the Melanie Rawn mentioned earlier--a woman. That's a pretty decent observation. Having said that--do you think there are a lot of female high fantasy readers? I'm interested in your answer: I honestly don't know. I thought my wife was an outlier. I think there are. When choosing books and reading the reviews there are always a lot of women in there. Just for giggles after I read this I went to goodreads and randomly picked an epic fantasy novel (made sure it was a male author because I'm sure there is a lot of bias towards female authors by women readers) and 11 out of the first 15 reviews are women. I certainly don't need sex written into stories but you're right that there's a balance between gratuitous, unnuanced use of it and just avoiding it altogether. At some point you begin to question the connection/real relationship between whatever characters if they're supposed to be a couple but all the interactions are so platonic. I think the above connection struck me as I was reading one novel by a man (can't remember which----likely blocked it out) and the way we knew bro was having sex was because we were told things like, "We fucked before we got out of bed and I showered while she made omelets" and "We fell asleep immediately after we fucked because we knew we had a long day ahead of us." I swear almost every chapter had something along those lines and it was so bizarre that it's literally all I can remember about the book. Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum. I thoroughly enjoyed Fourth Wing and Iron Flame (I understand the criticisms around them as well and agree with some of it but I like what I like) but lawd did she go overboard with the sex scenes, both in number and description. It's more jarring than anything to be reading along, enjoying the sexual tension and build up, then stumble into a 2 page (or more!!!) long sex scene with way too much detail about every position change and exactly how he performs cunnilingus. Not to mention all the dialog I enjoyed throughout the rest of the books came to a screeching halt during those scenes and the cringe talk took over. But once we understand the sexual relationship has been established, we don't need a play-by-play every single time they engage. Alluding to it being a regular thing will suffice, thanks. |
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Quoted: But you need more than just, "We fucked," right? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Quoted: I think there are. When choosing books and reading the reviews there are always a lot of women in there. Just for giggles after I read this I went to goodreads and randomly picked an epic fantasy novel (made sure it was a male author because I'm sure there is a lot of bias towards female authors by women readers) and 11 out of the first 15 reviews are women. I certainly don't need sex written into stories but you're right that there's a balance between gratuitous, unnuanced use of it and just avoiding it altogether. At some point you begin to question the connection/real relationship between whatever characters if they're supposed to be a couple but all the interactions are so platonic. I think the above connection struck me as I was reading one novel by a man (can't remember which----likely blocked it out) and the way we knew bro was having sex was because we were told things like, "We fucked before we got out of bed and I showered while she made omelets" and "We fell asleep immediately after we fucked because we knew we had a long day ahead of us." I swear almost every chapter had something along those lines and it was so bizarre that it's literally all I can remember about the book. Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum. I thoroughly enjoyed Fourth Wing and Iron Flame (I understand the criticisms around them as well and agree with some of it but I like what I like) but lawd did she go overboard with the sex scenes, both in number and description. It's more jarring than anything to be reading along, enjoying the sexual tension and build up, then stumble into a 2 page (or more!!!) long sex scene with way too much detail about every position change and exactly how he performs cunnilingus. Not to mention all the dialog I enjoyed throughout the rest of the books came to a screeching halt during those scenes and the cringe talk took over. But once we understand the sexual relationship has been established, we don't need a play-by-play every single time they engage. Alluding to it being a regular thing will suffice, thanks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Probably for the best. Dudes can't write about good sex. Or at least not for woman readers. *forcefield activated Huh. Maybe this is the real reason why it isn't done more commonly. The best I've seen (in high fantasy) was the Melanie Rawn mentioned earlier--a woman. That's a pretty decent observation. Having said that--do you think there are a lot of female high fantasy readers? I'm interested in your answer: I honestly don't know. I thought my wife was an outlier. I think there are. When choosing books and reading the reviews there are always a lot of women in there. Just for giggles after I read this I went to goodreads and randomly picked an epic fantasy novel (made sure it was a male author because I'm sure there is a lot of bias towards female authors by women readers) and 11 out of the first 15 reviews are women. I certainly don't need sex written into stories but you're right that there's a balance between gratuitous, unnuanced use of it and just avoiding it altogether. At some point you begin to question the connection/real relationship between whatever characters if they're supposed to be a couple but all the interactions are so platonic. I think the above connection struck me as I was reading one novel by a man (can't remember which----likely blocked it out) and the way we knew bro was having sex was because we were told things like, "We fucked before we got out of bed and I showered while she made omelets" and "We fell asleep immediately after we fucked because we knew we had a long day ahead of us." I swear almost every chapter had something along those lines and it was so bizarre that it's literally all I can remember about the book. Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum. I thoroughly enjoyed Fourth Wing and Iron Flame (I understand the criticisms around them as well and agree with some of it but I like what I like) but lawd did she go overboard with the sex scenes, both in number and description. It's more jarring than anything to be reading along, enjoying the sexual tension and build up, then stumble into a 2 page (or more!!!) long sex scene with way too much detail about every position change and exactly how he performs cunnilingus. Not to mention all the dialog I enjoyed throughout the rest of the books came to a screeching halt during those scenes and the cringe talk took over. But once we understand the sexual relationship has been established, we don't need a play-by-play every single time they engage. Alluding to it being a regular thing will suffice, thanks. Women want the romance, not the dirty nasty part. I will admit in the Dresden series, I was waiting to see if he would ever knock boots with Karen, I did not expect to see him do it with Mab though. |
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Quoted: Oh no, THAT'S fine. Like I said, the alluding to it is a-ok by me. I was just referring to my previous post where over and over it was written like, "Woke up, fucked, had breakfast, car wouldn't start", etc. https://i.imgur.com/r28YxRg.gif View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Eh...for me? Not really, it's fine if there's more but it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the book if it's like "they retired to their chambers" or whatever lol. Oh no, THAT'S fine. Like I said, the alluding to it is a-ok by me. I was just referring to my previous post where over and over it was written like, "Woke up, fucked, had breakfast, car wouldn't start", etc. https://i.imgur.com/r28YxRg.gif The car didn't start? |
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Quoted: I think there are. When choosing books and reading the reviews there are always a lot of women in there. Just for giggles after I read this I went to goodreads and randomly picked an epic fantasy novel (made sure it was a male author because I'm sure there is a lot of bias towards female authors by women readers) and 11 out of the first 15 reviews are women. I certainly don't need sex written into stories but you're right that there's a balance between gratuitous, unnuanced use of it and just avoiding it altogether. At some point you begin to question the connection/real relationship between whatever characters if they're supposed to be a couple but all the interactions are so platonic. I think the above connection struck me as I was reading one novel by a man (can't remember which----likely blocked it out) and the way we knew bro was having sex was because we were told things like, "We fucked before we got out of bed and I showered while she made omelets" and "We fell asleep immediately after we fucked because we knew we had a long day ahead of us." I swear almost every chapter had something along those lines and it was so bizarre that it's literally all I can remember about the book. Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum. I thoroughly enjoyed Fourth Wing and Iron Flame (I understand the criticisms around them as well and agree with some of it but I like what I like) but lawd did she go overboard with the sex scenes, both in number and description. It's more jarring than anything to be reading along, enjoying the sexual tension and build up, then stumble into a 2 page (or more!!!) long sex scene with way too much detail about every position change and exactly how he performs cunnilingus. Not to mention all the dialog I enjoyed throughout the rest of the books came to a screeching halt during those scenes and the cringe talk took over. But once we understand the sexual relationship has been established, we don't need a play-by-play every single time they engage. Alluding to it being a regular thing will suffice, thanks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Probably for the best. Dudes can't write about good sex. Or at least not for woman readers. *forcefield activated Huh. Maybe this is the real reason why it isn't done more commonly. The best I've seen (in high fantasy) was the Melanie Rawn mentioned earlier--a woman. That's a pretty decent observation. Having said that--do you think there are a lot of female high fantasy readers? I'm interested in your answer: I honestly don't know. I thought my wife was an outlier. I think there are. When choosing books and reading the reviews there are always a lot of women in there. Just for giggles after I read this I went to goodreads and randomly picked an epic fantasy novel (made sure it was a male author because I'm sure there is a lot of bias towards female authors by women readers) and 11 out of the first 15 reviews are women. I certainly don't need sex written into stories but you're right that there's a balance between gratuitous, unnuanced use of it and just avoiding it altogether. At some point you begin to question the connection/real relationship between whatever characters if they're supposed to be a couple but all the interactions are so platonic. I think the above connection struck me as I was reading one novel by a man (can't remember which----likely blocked it out) and the way we knew bro was having sex was because we were told things like, "We fucked before we got out of bed and I showered while she made omelets" and "We fell asleep immediately after we fucked because we knew we had a long day ahead of us." I swear almost every chapter had something along those lines and it was so bizarre that it's literally all I can remember about the book. Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum. I thoroughly enjoyed Fourth Wing and Iron Flame (I understand the criticisms around them as well and agree with some of it but I like what I like) but lawd did she go overboard with the sex scenes, both in number and description. It's more jarring than anything to be reading along, enjoying the sexual tension and build up, then stumble into a 2 page (or more!!!) long sex scene with way too much detail about every position change and exactly how he performs cunnilingus. Not to mention all the dialog I enjoyed throughout the rest of the books came to a screeching halt during those scenes and the cringe talk took over. But once we understand the sexual relationship has been established, we don't need a play-by-play every single time they engage. Alluding to it being a regular thing will suffice, thanks. That's...not what I need, anyway. "We fucked" isn't...well, it feels cheap. A good story--something that has dragged me into its world--is one where the writer captures the essence of what is going on, and successfully gains my interest. That "we fucked" isn't going to do it. I need to be kept in the story. I don't need gratuitous detail, but by golly--if the hero spent the last four books falling in love, I want to see THAT fantasy realized. Don't sell me on a slowly building love story for five fucking books and culminate it in "...as the doors to their chamber shut gently behind them, the cares of the day were immediately forgotten as the two lovers discovered--finally--each other's true selves." ...and speaking of sex in books. Wanna hear a neat (well, maybe neat is the wrong word) story? Confession: I was taught to read before I entered kindergarten. Long story, lifelong bad habit. Anyway--when I was 12 or so, Jean Auel's book "The Clan of the Cave Bear" was hugely popular, and since I was a Boy Scout and an outdoor kid, my parents bought it for me, as it had much to do with a young girl learning to survive a harsh wilderness environment in an indigenous sort of situation: Robinson Crusoe/Swiss Family Robinson sort of stuff. Great book, loved it, talked it up with my parents (who didn't read but fully supported my bad habit). When the next book came out...I think it was The Valley of Horses, or something like that? 90% of the survival stuff was gone, replaced with this young, now teenaged girl entering adulthood, and by chance rescuing an injured, extremely well-endowed warrior, who she heals back to health, and then has ridiculously detailed sex with--over and over. In between hunts and taming sabre-toothed tigers. My parents bought me this book--they never read it. They also bought me the next two or three extremely graphic sequel novels, trying to keep my interest in reading fed, while not knowing what they were giving me. Much of those details were of great use to a young, teenaged Sixtigers. Funny addendum to that: After I joined the Navy and left home, my father went through a reading period where he read extensively for a year or two. He raided my library and read the Jean Auel books. After the third one, he stopped reading. "I couldn't take any more descriptions of Jondalar's extreme manhood--I can't believe you read this shit!" |
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Quoted: I have, and we are in agreement. I think it's better than the Chronicles, and unlike most of the fiction discussed here, doesn't hide from adult things. It was truly a masterpiece, and some of the best sci-fi I've ever read. Just didn't mention it because it's a fantasy thread. Kudos, brother! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant That’s one you don’t hear very often. Dark series about an angry leper transported to another realm with lots of power, especially the anger. This series is one of the reasons my wife and I met/got together. We were both readers in a world where there were few of us, and neither one of us had met anybody else that had read Stephen R. Donaldson's masterpiece...let alone loved them. Wearing my white gold wedding ring as I type this. I found his science fiction series the Gap Series to be much better. Give it a shot if you haven't. I have, and we are in agreement. I think it's better than the Chronicles, and unlike most of the fiction discussed here, doesn't hide from adult things. It was truly a masterpiece, and some of the best sci-fi I've ever read. Just didn't mention it because it's a fantasy thread. Kudos, brother! |
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Buy Robert E Howard. He has a ton of material. Start with Conan and move on from there.
https://www.bookseriesinorder.com/robert-e-howard/ |
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Quoted: W Women want the romance, not the dirty nasty part. I will admit in the Dresden series, I was waiting to see if he would ever knock boots with Karen, I did not expect to see him do it with Mab though. View Quote I take it you haven't read many romance novels. Like I said, a balance is nice and the way it's written has to fit with the story and the characters or it's jarring. |
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Quoted: Oh no, THAT'S fine. Like I said, the alluding to it is a-ok by me. I was just referring to my previous post where over and over it was written like, "Woke up, fucked, had breakfast, car wouldn't start", etc. https://i.imgur.com/r28YxRg.gif View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Eh...for me? Not really, it's fine if there's more but it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the book if it's like "they retired to their chambers" or whatever lol. Oh no, THAT'S fine. Like I said, the alluding to it is a-ok by me. I was just referring to my previous post where over and over it was written like, "Woke up, fucked, had breakfast, car wouldn't start", etc. https://i.imgur.com/r28YxRg.gif Ah yeah. I love Pandora's Star for example but jesus the sex scenes were so uncomfortable in that. They were necessary to the story, but the gratuitous details were NOT lol. |
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Quoted: Yeah, it really is both. The first one is a fantastic story. I didn't like the sequels. My interest faded to the point that I didn't even finish the 3rd or 4th one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Dune is good fantasy "pretending" to be Sci fi. Awesome novel. Yeah, it really is both. The first one is a fantastic story. I didn't like the sequels. My interest faded to the point that I didn't even finish the 3rd or 4th one. Dune and Dune Messiah tell Paul's story as the wild Kwisatz Haderach who sees what even the Bene Gesserit cannot. Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune tell the life of Leto ll, and the terrible purpose behind why he deliberately chooses to become the greatest scourge of Mankind in history, the God Emperor. Not the unified masterpiece that LOTR is, but it is a wildly ambitious swing for the fences that connects...and almost gets there. Side note: the Fremen are primarily based on 3 historical groups. The Bedouin, the Apache and the mid 19th century Chechen resistance against the Czar in the book "The Sabers of Paradise" that describes a Jihad raised by a minor noble turned Madhi against the Russians and the war to the knife that ensued against the Harkonnen-like Cossacks. |
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Quoted: Ah yeah. I love Pandora's Star for example but jesus the sex scenes were so uncomfortable in that. They were necessary to the story, but the gratuitous details were NOT lol. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Eh...for me? Not really, it's fine if there's more but it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the book if it's like "they retired to their chambers" or whatever lol. Oh no, THAT'S fine. Like I said, the alluding to it is a-ok by me. I was just referring to my previous post where over and over it was written like, "Woke up, fucked, had breakfast, car wouldn't start", etc. https://i.imgur.com/r28YxRg.gif Ah yeah. I love Pandora's Star for example but jesus the sex scenes were so uncomfortable in that. They were necessary to the story, but the gratuitous details were NOT lol. I used to read everything my daughter was going to read before she read it, to make sure it was kosher. She was heavy into what is now called Young Adult, or YA. YA is basically fantasy lite, usually involving vampires or other supernatural creatures in high school. All of that Mormon woman's stuff that was so popular, and then a dozen or so different versions of what I just started calling Vampire Academy Drama, and eventually I stopped reading her shit because it was all just high-school, teenaged drama in a safe-ish, PG-13 setting. Then she started reading Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter novels. She read them a LOT. Had one under her bed, even. So, yeah--I thought I should probably give those a try, and holy shit--now I know why she kept them under her bed. Women can get really, really descriptive in their sex scenes. Even more graphic with supernatural creatures, LOL. So yeah--no more Anita Blake in our house until after she moved out. |
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I'm injoying "The Wondering Inn" I'm listening to the audiobooks and they are 40 plus hours each.
https://wanderinginn.com/book/the-wandering-inn/ |
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Quoted: The Wheel of Time series is excellent and an amazing world. There is a period in the middle where the books get slow and a bit of a slog, but they improve again later. All are worth reading, even if slow in places. View Quote I made to book 9 or 10 and had to tap out. It seemed like he was introducing new characters/story arcs every couple of pages by then and hadn't made any moves to wrap any of the previous ones up. I decided I was no longer getting an acceptable return on my investment and moved on. |
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Quoted: That's...not what I need, anyway. "We fucked" isn't...well, it feels cheap. A good story--something that has dragged me into its world--is one where the writer captures the essence of what is going on, and successfully gains my interest. That "we fucked" isn't going to do it. I need to be kept in the story. I don't need gratuitous detail, but by golly--if the hero spent the last four books falling in love, I want to see THAT fantasy realized. Don't sell me on a slowly building love story for five fucking books and culminate it in "...as the doors to their chamber shut gently behind them, the cares of the day were immediately forgotten as the two lovers discovered--finally--each other's true selves." ...and speaking of sex in books. Wanna hear a neat (well, maybe neat is the wrong word) story? Confession: I was taught to read before I entered kindergarten. Long story, lifelong bad habit. Anyway--when I was 12 or so, Jean Auel's book "The Clan of the Cave Bear" was hugely popular, and since I was a Boy Scout and an outdoor kid, my parents bought it for me, as it had much to do with a young girl learning to survive a harsh wilderness environment in an indigenous sort of situation: Robinson Crusoe/Swiss Family Robinson sort of stuff. Great book, loved it, talked it up with my parents (who didn't read but fully supported my bad habit). When the next book came out...I think it was The Valley of Horses, or something like that? 90% of the survival stuff was gone, replaced with this young, now teenaged girl entering adulthood, and by chance rescuing an injured, extremely well-endowed warrior, who she heals back to health, and then has ridiculously detailed sex with--over and over. In between hunts and taming sabre-toothed tigers. My parents bought me this book--they never read it. They also bought me the next two or three extremely graphic sequel novels, trying to keep my interest in reading fed, while not knowing what they were giving me. Much of those details were of great use to a young, teenaged Sixtigers. Funny addendum to that: After I joined the Navy and left home, my father went through a reading period where he read extensively for a year or two. He raided my library and read the Jean Auel books. After the third one, he stopped reading. "I couldn't take any more descriptions of Jondalar's extreme manhood--I can't believe you read this shit!" View Quote Yes, to all of it. My similar experience was with VC Andrews books. Someone gave a bunch to my completely straight-laced, puritan mother who never had time to read and, not knowing what they were, just stashed them in the living room book case. She'd have a heart attack if she knew what she inadvertently gave me access to. |
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Quoted: I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. View Quote Don't know about the others, but I always assumed the pg13 sex scenes in the belgariad and WoT were because they were written for a teenaged audience and the authors weren't trying to be too graphic for that market (or for that market's parents, at least). But my perception may be skewed by the fact I was a teenager while reading them and just assumed they were written for me. |
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Quoted: Holy shit, Salvatore wrote a TON more books. I think I have only read the first two or three trilogies. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Second vote for Mistborn. And these. https://www.goodreads.com/series/49134-the-legend-of-drizzt The problem with Drizzt is he is a whiny cunt. Holy shit, Salvatore wrote a TON more books. I think I have only read the first two or three trilogies. The "good" Drizzt books stop right about there. |
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Quoted: Probably for the best. Dudes can't write about good sex. Or at least not for woman readers. *forcefield activated View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Probably for the best. Dudes can't write about good sex. Or at least not for woman readers. *forcefield activated My online chat history from my teens and 20s would tend to disprove your theory. |
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Quoted: Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. The Dresden Files by the same author. I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. I don't need my books to be like this at all. I mean adult situations are fine, but it really doesn't matter to me if the story, characters, and world building are good. One reason I like Sanderson, it's not that adult things don't happen, it just happens outside of the narrative which is fine. Game of Thrones is popular because it has great characters, it's dark, it's unpredictable, and tells a great story. Take away the tits and it would just as popular. If tits was all that mattered there would be a lot of really popular but shitty shows. A respectable counterargument. Going by your screen name and the fact that I tried to make sandalwood grips for my Vaqueros, we share similar tastes. I guess my only rebuttal would be...what's the other fantastically popular high fantasy series on TV? First, lets agree that it's okay to like different things Your stance doesn't bother me at all (just to clarify) I just think for a lot of people it doesn't really matter as long as the story is good. As to your question...I don't know TBH, I only have streaming services lol. Probably something with a lot of tits, but my follow up question would be this- would that show still be as high quality without the tits? In other news, I reread the Dark Tower series last year (well, the first 4 anyway) and they still hold up. What a great series. Too bad SK is such a dope. Also, I need a couple .45C Vaqueros.... Still my second favorite author--and he introduced me to my favorite author. Wanna see something neat? A crossover between what we're discussing (GoT) and the other? The character Bronn in Game of Thrones? He's your dad. Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. Ugh, no! Based on the abomination their Wheel of Woke turned out to be, HBO? Sure. Amazon series? No thanks. |
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Quoted: I made to book 9 or 10 and had to tap out. It seemed like he was introducing new characters/story arcs every couple of pages by then and hadn't made any moves to wrap any of the previous ones up. I decided I was no longer getting an acceptable return on my investment and moved on. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The Wheel of Time series is excellent and an amazing world. There is a period in the middle where the books get slow and a bit of a slog, but they improve again later. All are worth reading, even if slow in places. I made to book 9 or 10 and had to tap out. It seemed like he was introducing new characters/story arcs every couple of pages by then and hadn't made any moves to wrap any of the previous ones up. I decided I was no longer getting an acceptable return on my investment and moved on. I forget when it starts to taper off, but I seem to recall it getting better around 10+. |
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Quoted: Ugh, no! Based on the abomination their Wheel of Woke turned out to be, HBO? Sure. Amazon series? No thanks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. The Dresden Files by the same author. I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. I don't need my books to be like this at all. I mean adult situations are fine, but it really doesn't matter to me if the story, characters, and world building are good. One reason I like Sanderson, it's not that adult things don't happen, it just happens outside of the narrative which is fine. Game of Thrones is popular because it has great characters, it's dark, it's unpredictable, and tells a great story. Take away the tits and it would just as popular. If tits was all that mattered there would be a lot of really popular but shitty shows. A respectable counterargument. Going by your screen name and the fact that I tried to make sandalwood grips for my Vaqueros, we share similar tastes. I guess my only rebuttal would be...what's the other fantastically popular high fantasy series on TV? First, lets agree that it's okay to like different things Your stance doesn't bother me at all (just to clarify) I just think for a lot of people it doesn't really matter as long as the story is good. As to your question...I don't know TBH, I only have streaming services lol. Probably something with a lot of tits, but my follow up question would be this- would that show still be as high quality without the tits? In other news, I reread the Dark Tower series last year (well, the first 4 anyway) and they still hold up. What a great series. Too bad SK is such a dope. Also, I need a couple .45C Vaqueros.... Still my second favorite author--and he introduced me to my favorite author. Wanna see something neat? A crossover between what we're discussing (GoT) and the other? The character Bronn in Game of Thrones? He's your dad. Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. Ugh, no! Based on the abomination their Wheel of Woke turned out to be, HBO? Sure. Amazon series? No thanks. Maybe. OTOH there's some great Amazon series, so we'll see how it goes. "So you're saying there's a chance" |
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Quoted: Oh damn, I just saw 2020 on it and some reviews and thought it was out already. Agreed, I loved all the first 4 but Wizard and Glass was just...that perfect book that completely consumed me while I was reading it. As you may have guessed, I had just finished reading it when I created my account here 21 years ago lol. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. The Dresden Files by the same author. I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. I don't need my books to be like this at all. I mean adult situations are fine, but it really doesn't matter to me if the story, characters, and world building are good. One reason I like Sanderson, it's not that adult things don't happen, it just happens outside of the narrative which is fine. Game of Thrones is popular because it has great characters, it's dark, it's unpredictable, and tells a great story. Take away the tits and it would just as popular. If tits was all that mattered there would be a lot of really popular but shitty shows. A respectable counterargument. Going by your screen name and the fact that I tried to make sandalwood grips for my Vaqueros, we share similar tastes. I guess my only rebuttal would be...what's the other fantastically popular high fantasy series on TV? First, lets agree that it's okay to like different things Your stance doesn't bother me at all (just to clarify) I just think for a lot of people it doesn't really matter as long as the story is good. As to your question...I don't know TBH, I only have streaming services lol. Probably something with a lot of tits, but my follow up question would be this- would that show still be as high quality without the tits? In other news, I reread the Dark Tower series last year (well, the first 4 anyway) and they still hold up. What a great series. Too bad SK is such a dope. Also, I need a couple .45C Vaqueros.... Still my second favorite author--and he introduced me to my favorite author. Wanna see something neat? A crossover between what we're discussing (GoT) and the other? The character Bronn in Game of Thrones? He's your dad. Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. Oh damn, I just saw 2020 on it and some reviews and thought it was out already. Agreed, I loved all the first 4 but Wizard and Glass was just...that perfect book that completely consumed me while I was reading it. As you may have guessed, I had just finished reading it when I created my account here 21 years ago lol. You mentioned rereading the first 4. Do you have the whole series, or just the first four? I reread them every so often (read The Gunslinger oh, so long ago. Dang, it took a looong time to get closure. Have 1st edition hardcovers of the later books, as they were released, but nowadays, I prefer reading on the Kindle app, either on my phone, or the Paperwhite for outdoor/sunlight). |
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Second the recommendation for Deed of Paksenarrion. Probably the most "realism-centric" take on a D&D Paladin in literature.
However, slight caveat. Elizabeth Moon is(was?) a fervent member of the Episcopal Church (which is no surprise, considering the Fellowship of Gird in her books), on the Liberal side. When the ECUSA melted down, this past decade, she didn't take it well, and the emotional trauma she dealt with gets played out in the follow-on series (Paladin's Legacy, in which Paksenarrion is more of a guest star), with the "conservatives" as the bad guys. YMMV, there. That drama is totally absent from the original series, which was written in the 80s. |
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Quoted: Maybe. OTOH there's some great Amazon series, so we'll see how it goes. "So you're saying there's a chance" View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. The Dresden Files by the same author. I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. I don't need my books to be like this at all. I mean adult situations are fine, but it really doesn't matter to me if the story, characters, and world building are good. One reason I like Sanderson, it's not that adult things don't happen, it just happens outside of the narrative which is fine. Game of Thrones is popular because it has great characters, it's dark, it's unpredictable, and tells a great story. Take away the tits and it would just as popular. If tits was all that mattered there would be a lot of really popular but shitty shows. A respectable counterargument. Going by your screen name and the fact that I tried to make sandalwood grips for my Vaqueros, we share similar tastes. I guess my only rebuttal would be...what's the other fantastically popular high fantasy series on TV? First, lets agree that it's okay to like different things Your stance doesn't bother me at all (just to clarify) I just think for a lot of people it doesn't really matter as long as the story is good. As to your question...I don't know TBH, I only have streaming services lol. Probably something with a lot of tits, but my follow up question would be this- would that show still be as high quality without the tits? In other news, I reread the Dark Tower series last year (well, the first 4 anyway) and they still hold up. What a great series. Too bad SK is such a dope. Also, I need a couple .45C Vaqueros.... Still my second favorite author--and he introduced me to my favorite author. Wanna see something neat? A crossover between what we're discussing (GoT) and the other? The character Bronn in Game of Thrones? He's your dad. Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. Ugh, no! Based on the abomination their Wheel of Woke turned out to be, HBO? Sure. Amazon series? No thanks. Maybe. OTOH there's some great Amazon series, so we'll see how it goes. "So you're saying there's a chance" Put me here. |
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Lots of the folks in this thread don’t know why “high fantasy” means
Wheel of time is popular, but sucks. Song of ice and fire is excellent - treat it as a trilogy - quality drops off sharply after book 3 Saga of the forgotten warrior - Larry Correa. Fun read but unfinished Codex Alera has been mentioned - solid Storm light Archive - Sanderson. Also solid. |
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Quoted: I think there are. When choosing books and reading the reviews there are always a lot of women in there. Just for giggles after I read this I went to goodreads and randomly picked an epic fantasy novel (made sure it was a male author because I'm sure there is a lot of bias towards female authors by women readers) and 11 out of the first 15 reviews are women. I certainly don't need sex written into stories but you're right that there's a balance between gratuitous, unnuanced use of it and just avoiding it altogether. At some point you begin to question the connection/real relationship between whatever characters if they're supposed to be a couple but all the interactions are so platonic. I think the above connection struck me as I was reading one novel by a man (can't remember which----likely blocked it out) and the way we knew bro was having sex was because we were told things like, "We fucked before we got out of bed and I showered while she made omelets" and "We fell asleep immediately after we fucked because we knew we had a long day ahead of us." I swear almost every chapter had something along those lines and it was so bizarre that it's literally all I can remember about the book. Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum. I thoroughly enjoyed Fourth Wing and Iron Flame (I understand the criticisms around them as well and agree with some of it but I like what I like) but lawd did she go overboard with the sex scenes, both in number and description. It's more jarring than anything to be reading along, enjoying the sexual tension and build up, then stumble into a 2 page (or more!!!) long sex scene with way too much detail about every position change and exactly how he performs cunnilingus. Not to mention all the dialog I enjoyed throughout the rest of the books came to a screeching halt during those scenes and the cringe talk took over. But once we understand the sexual relationship has been established, we don't need a play-by-play every single time they engage. Alluding to it being a regular thing will suffice, thanks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Probably for the best. Dudes can't write about good sex. Or at least not for woman readers. *forcefield activated Huh. Maybe this is the real reason why it isn't done more commonly. The best I've seen (in high fantasy) was the Melanie Rawn mentioned earlier--a woman. That's a pretty decent observation. Having said that--do you think there are a lot of female high fantasy readers? I'm interested in your answer: I honestly don't know. I thought my wife was an outlier. I think there are. When choosing books and reading the reviews there are always a lot of women in there. Just for giggles after I read this I went to goodreads and randomly picked an epic fantasy novel (made sure it was a male author because I'm sure there is a lot of bias towards female authors by women readers) and 11 out of the first 15 reviews are women. I certainly don't need sex written into stories but you're right that there's a balance between gratuitous, unnuanced use of it and just avoiding it altogether. At some point you begin to question the connection/real relationship between whatever characters if they're supposed to be a couple but all the interactions are so platonic. I think the above connection struck me as I was reading one novel by a man (can't remember which----likely blocked it out) and the way we knew bro was having sex was because we were told things like, "We fucked before we got out of bed and I showered while she made omelets" and "We fell asleep immediately after we fucked because we knew we had a long day ahead of us." I swear almost every chapter had something along those lines and it was so bizarre that it's literally all I can remember about the book. Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum. I thoroughly enjoyed Fourth Wing and Iron Flame (I understand the criticisms around them as well and agree with some of it but I like what I like) but lawd did she go overboard with the sex scenes, both in number and description. It's more jarring than anything to be reading along, enjoying the sexual tension and build up, then stumble into a 2 page (or more!!!) long sex scene with way too much detail about every position change and exactly how he performs cunnilingus. Not to mention all the dialog I enjoyed throughout the rest of the books came to a screeching halt during those scenes and the cringe talk took over. But once we understand the sexual relationship has been established, we don't need a play-by-play every single time they engage. Alluding to it being a regular thing will suffice, thanks. Probably writers venturing outside the Women’s/Romance (pseudo porn) genres (ala 50 Shades of Grey) |
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Quoted: You mentioned rereading the first 4. Do you have the whole series, or just the first four? I reread them every so often (read The Gunslinger oh, so long ago. Dang, it took a looong time to get closure. Have 1st edition hardcovers of the later books, as they were released, but nowadays, I prefer reading on the Kindle app, either on my phone, or the Paperwhite for outdoor/sunlight). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. The Dresden Files by the same author. I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. I don't need my books to be like this at all. I mean adult situations are fine, but it really doesn't matter to me if the story, characters, and world building are good. One reason I like Sanderson, it's not that adult things don't happen, it just happens outside of the narrative which is fine. Game of Thrones is popular because it has great characters, it's dark, it's unpredictable, and tells a great story. Take away the tits and it would just as popular. If tits was all that mattered there would be a lot of really popular but shitty shows. A respectable counterargument. Going by your screen name and the fact that I tried to make sandalwood grips for my Vaqueros, we share similar tastes. I guess my only rebuttal would be...what's the other fantastically popular high fantasy series on TV? First, lets agree that it's okay to like different things Your stance doesn't bother me at all (just to clarify) I just think for a lot of people it doesn't really matter as long as the story is good. As to your question...I don't know TBH, I only have streaming services lol. Probably something with a lot of tits, but my follow up question would be this- would that show still be as high quality without the tits? In other news, I reread the Dark Tower series last year (well, the first 4 anyway) and they still hold up. What a great series. Too bad SK is such a dope. Also, I need a couple .45C Vaqueros.... Still my second favorite author--and he introduced me to my favorite author. Wanna see something neat? A crossover between what we're discussing (GoT) and the other? The character Bronn in Game of Thrones? He's your dad. Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. Oh damn, I just saw 2020 on it and some reviews and thought it was out already. Agreed, I loved all the first 4 but Wizard and Glass was just...that perfect book that completely consumed me while I was reading it. As you may have guessed, I had just finished reading it when I created my account here 21 years ago lol. You mentioned rereading the first 4. Do you have the whole series, or just the first four? I reread them every so often (read The Gunslinger oh, so long ago. Dang, it took a looong time to get closure. Have 1st edition hardcovers of the later books, as they were released, but nowadays, I prefer reading on the Kindle app, either on my phone, or the Paperwhite for outdoor/sunlight). I have the whole series, I only re-read the first 4 though. Like you I bought the 1st Edition hardcovers when they came out too- in fact I have #7 signed by Michael Whelan which is pretty cool. I also pretty much only real on my Kindle. |
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Quoted: I forget when it starts to taper off, but I seem to recall it getting better around 10+. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Wheel of Time series is excellent and an amazing world. There is a period in the middle where the books get slow and a bit of a slog, but they improve again later. All are worth reading, even if slow in places. I made to book 9 or 10 and had to tap out. It seemed like he was introducing new characters/story arcs every couple of pages by then and hadn't made any moves to wrap any of the previous ones up. I decided I was no longer getting an acceptable return on my investment and moved on. I forget when it starts to taper off, but I seem to recall it getting better around 10+. Figures. |
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Quoted: W Women want the romance, not the dirty nasty part. I will admit in the Dresden series, I was waiting to see if he would ever knock boots with Karen, I did not expect to see him do it with Mab though. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: W Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Probably for the best. Dudes can't write about good sex. Or at least not for woman readers. *forcefield activated Huh. Maybe this is the real reason why it isn't done more commonly. The best I've seen (in high fantasy) was the Melanie Rawn mentioned earlier--a woman. That's a pretty decent observation. Having said that--do you think there are a lot of female high fantasy readers? I'm interested in your answer: I honestly don't know. I thought my wife was an outlier. I think there are. When choosing books and reading the reviews there are always a lot of women in there. Just for giggles after I read this I went to goodreads and randomly picked an epic fantasy novel (made sure it was a male author because I'm sure there is a lot of bias towards female authors by women readers) and 11 out of the first 15 reviews are women. I certainly don't need sex written into stories but you're right that there's a balance between gratuitous, unnuanced use of it and just avoiding it altogether. At some point you begin to question the connection/real relationship between whatever characters if they're supposed to be a couple but all the interactions are so platonic. I think the above connection struck me as I was reading one novel by a man (can't remember which----likely blocked it out) and the way we knew bro was having sex was because we were told things like, "We fucked before we got out of bed and I showered while she made omelets" and "We fell asleep immediately after we fucked because we knew we had a long day ahead of us." I swear almost every chapter had something along those lines and it was so bizarre that it's literally all I can remember about the book. Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum. I thoroughly enjoyed Fourth Wing and Iron Flame (I understand the criticisms around them as well and agree with some of it but I like what I like) but lawd did she go overboard with the sex scenes, both in number and description. It's more jarring than anything to be reading along, enjoying the sexual tension and build up, then stumble into a 2 page (or more!!!) long sex scene with way too much detail about every position change and exactly how he performs cunnilingus. Not to mention all the dialog I enjoyed throughout the rest of the books came to a screeching halt during those scenes and the cringe talk took over. But once we understand the sexual relationship has been established, we don't need a play-by-play every single time they engage. Alluding to it being a regular thing will suffice, thanks. Women want the romance, not the dirty nasty part. I will admit in the Dresden series, I was waiting to see if he would ever knock boots with Karen, I did not expect to see him do it with Mab though. I don’t know about that. They have sex drives and like to fantasize just as much as men do. Our society just isn’t as open about it. There’s a reason Romance-porn novels have always been sellers. |
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Quoted: Ugh, no! Based on the abomination their Wheel of Woke turned out to be, HBO? Sure. Amazon series? No thanks. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. The Dresden Files by the same author. I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. I don't need my books to be like this at all. I mean adult situations are fine, but it really doesn't matter to me if the story, characters, and world building are good. One reason I like Sanderson, it's not that adult things don't happen, it just happens outside of the narrative which is fine. Game of Thrones is popular because it has great characters, it's dark, it's unpredictable, and tells a great story. Take away the tits and it would just as popular. If tits was all that mattered there would be a lot of really popular but shitty shows. A respectable counterargument. Going by your screen name and the fact that I tried to make sandalwood grips for my Vaqueros, we share similar tastes. I guess my only rebuttal would be...what's the other fantastically popular high fantasy series on TV? First, lets agree that it's okay to like different things Your stance doesn't bother me at all (just to clarify) I just think for a lot of people it doesn't really matter as long as the story is good. As to your question...I don't know TBH, I only have streaming services lol. Probably something with a lot of tits, but my follow up question would be this- would that show still be as high quality without the tits? In other news, I reread the Dark Tower series last year (well, the first 4 anyway) and they still hold up. What a great series. Too bad SK is such a dope. Also, I need a couple .45C Vaqueros.... Still my second favorite author--and he introduced me to my favorite author. Wanna see something neat? A crossover between what we're discussing (GoT) and the other? The character Bronn in Game of Thrones? He's your dad. Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. Ugh, no! Based on the abomination their Wheel of Woke turned out to be, HBO? Sure. Amazon series? No thanks. Ugh. I'm not sure that even tits could have saved that one. |
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Quoted: One of the best stories I've ever read, and I've read it multiple times. The ending actually hugely surprised me, and completely satisfied me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Mistborn. One of the best stories I've ever read, and I've read it multiple times. The ending actually hugely surprised me, and completely satisfied me. Sanderson is the master of the satisfying book ending. |
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Quoted: Ugh. I'm not sure that even tits could have saved that one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Codex Alera by Jim Butcher. The Dresden Files by the same author. I haven't read the Alera series, but the Dresden Files were very, very good. I grew tired of high fantasy decades ago, but magic-realism still hits on all cylinders for me. There are some good authors out there, but Butcher's character Dresden is the only one in my memory that actually grew, matured...changed...as his experiences and life went on. Also, they were 'adult' enough to keep my interest. There are so many fantasy series that are good...but all the characters are rated G. There is no acknowledgement of some of humanity's strongest impulses, or those facets are shunned/hidden/downplayed. Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" is a perfect example. His scenes with the main villian would go into great, gory detail during torture scenes...but sex was glossed over like an embarrassing fart in church. Edding's Mallorean and Belgariad were the same damn way. Two teenagers gifted with power, suffering great tribulations, but sex doesn't really exist. You can literally see the main character thinking "Gorsh!" (/Goofy) when he's chastely kissed, blushing red and stammering. For over 8 fucking books. Really? Jordan's "Wheel of Time" deals with it a little better...better than most, really...but it's still treated with kid gloves. It's like a law: high fantasy can't be "adult". It has to be written for chaste nerds who have never seen a clitoris live. You want to know why Game of Thrones on HBO was so successful? Tits. Pure and simple--tits. Their power was acknowledged, recognized, and dealt with. Adults acted like adults. I couldn't disagree with this more if I tried. I don't need my books to be like this at all. I mean adult situations are fine, but it really doesn't matter to me if the story, characters, and world building are good. One reason I like Sanderson, it's not that adult things don't happen, it just happens outside of the narrative which is fine. Game of Thrones is popular because it has great characters, it's dark, it's unpredictable, and tells a great story. Take away the tits and it would just as popular. If tits was all that mattered there would be a lot of really popular but shitty shows. A respectable counterargument. Going by your screen name and the fact that I tried to make sandalwood grips for my Vaqueros, we share similar tastes. I guess my only rebuttal would be...what's the other fantastically popular high fantasy series on TV? First, lets agree that it's okay to like different things Your stance doesn't bother me at all (just to clarify) I just think for a lot of people it doesn't really matter as long as the story is good. As to your question...I don't know TBH, I only have streaming services lol. Probably something with a lot of tits, but my follow up question would be this- would that show still be as high quality without the tits? In other news, I reread the Dark Tower series last year (well, the first 4 anyway) and they still hold up. What a great series. Too bad SK is such a dope. Also, I need a couple .45C Vaqueros.... Still my second favorite author--and he introduced me to my favorite author. Wanna see something neat? A crossover between what we're discussing (GoT) and the other? The character Bronn in Game of Thrones? He's your dad. Wow, I've never even heard of this. Will check it out, thanks! Don't get too excited. My research hasn't shown anything further than a proof of concept poster. Still--I'm hoping for an Amazon Prime series. IMHO, Wizard and Glass was the masterpiece of the DT series. Ugh, no! Based on the abomination their Wheel of Woke turned out to be, HBO? Sure. Amazon series? No thanks. Ugh. I'm not sure that even tits could have saved that one. HA I win! |
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Quoted: "Out of the Ashes" series by William W. Johnstone "The Survivalist" series by Jerry Ahern "Deathlands" series by James Axler View Quote |
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Quoted: Shameless plug for my BIL, who is the author: The Death Collector series Dark fantasy. He has a twisted mind. View Quote Cool. I've actually read some of his other stuff. Waiting on the next release on one now to continue a series. |
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