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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:10:16 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And what are Ukraines losses ? I would assume this works both ways. It's illegal to talk about Ukrainian losses |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:12:35 AM EDT
[#2]
They also ran out of tanks 2 years ago, missiles 1.5 years ago.
Ammunition 1 year ago.... |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:15:37 AM EDT
[#3]
I dunno about their rate of attrition vs replacement, but losing 2.6k tanks is fucking wild.
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:25:12 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe the Russian equipment loss numbers. What I do not believe are the Ukrainian equipment loss numbers, especially since the government openly scrubs every piece of media being put out. Russia has spent the last year surging manufacturing capacity and is more like 90+ a month. The real question is how many can Ukraine make per month? The answer is zero. They rely on places like Germany who can make 24 per year. This ends up being a problem. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you get your info from a blog in the Netherlands put together by people who aren't in the country. You somehow believe they've managed to get a picture of every single destroyed vehicle and have accurately identified them with zero bias or effort to skew the numbers. (Bias from the soldiers sending photos as well not just the blog itself.) Lol. How many destroyed vehicles haven't been counted. I believe the Russian equipment loss numbers. What I do not believe are the Ukrainian equipment loss numbers, especially since the government openly scrubs every piece of media being put out. Quoted: Russia can natively produce 50 or so new tanks a month. They can repair a few hundred a month from their stockpiles. Russia has spent the last year surging manufacturing capacity and is more like 90+ a month. The real question is how many can Ukraine make per month? The answer is zero. They rely on places like Germany who can make 24 per year. This ends up being a problem. As of 28 DEC 2023, this is what Ukraine has had either delivered or promised from the US, the UK, Germany and Spain.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:27:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also ran out of tanks 2 years ago, missiles 1.5 years ago. Ammunition 1 year ago.... You’ve been getting your intel from Ryan. 
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:27:45 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:35:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you get your info from a blog in the Netherlands put together by people who aren't in the country. You somehow believe they've managed to get a picture of every single destroyed vehicle and have accurately identified them with zero bias or effort to skew the numbers. (Bias from the soldiers sending photos as well not just the blog itself.) Lol. How many destroyed vehicles haven't been counted. Tons of pro russian accounts have tried over and over to discredit Oryx; yet they remain in the game. No, Oryx doesn't capture every destroyed vehicle. No, Oryx doesn't take into account "destroyed" vehicles which are later recovered and the crew remains hosed out and a fresh coat of paint slapped on circa 1944-45. What it does do is provide a useful baseline for estimation with fudge factors. 1700 destroyed Russian tanks - Fudge of 30% (divide by 1.3) = 1300 destroyed Russian Tanks. Pre war estimates by think-tanks like the International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS) were that the Russians had 2,900 operational tanks in their military. 1300 / 2900 = 44% of the pre-war tank fleet has pretty much been destroyed or so badly damaged as to be irrecoverable. Yes, the Russians are producing new tanks -- about 40 to 50 new tanks (T-80, T-72, T-90) each month -- but that's about one week's rate of losses at a place like Robotyne. They've been making up the balance of losses above and beyond their new production with all their stored cold-war era stuff (T-55, T-62, T-72) located in these storage depots; but what happens when that runs out in about 9 months? |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:37:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My brain hurts just thinking about maintaining 5 different models if tank.  That’s not even getting into the worst of it. Certain sub models have completely different parts. You can’t use newer ammunition in older guns. It’s just as bad for the ukrainain side which has all of that plus a smattering of western gear |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:39:36 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tons of pro russian accounts have tried over and over to discredit Oryx; yet they remain in the game. No, Oryx doesn't capture every destroyed vehicle. No, Oryx doesn't take into account "destroyed" vehicles which are later recovered and the crew remains hosed out and a fresh coat of paint slapped on circa 1944-45. What it does do is provide a useful baseline for estimation with fudge factors. 1700 destroyed Russian tanks - Fudge of 30% (divide by 1.3) = 1300 destroyed Russian Tanks. Pre war estimates by think-tanks like the International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS) were that the Russians had 2,900 operational tanks in their military. 1300 / 2900 = 44% of the pre-war tank fleet has pretty much been destroyed or so badly damaged as to be irrecoverable. Yes, the Russians are producing new tanks -- about 40 to 50 new tanks (T-80, T-72, T-90) each month -- but that's about one week's rate of losses at a place like Robotyne. They've been making up the balance of losses above and beyond their new production with all their stored cold-war era stuff (T-55, T-62, T-72) located in these storage depots; but what happens when that runs out in about 9 months? Care to estimate a timeline for when Ukraine is going to force Russia out of their territory, as a result of the lack of tanks that you are projecting the Russians will have? |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:40:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They've been making up the balance of losses above and beyond their new production with all their stored cold-war era stuff (T-55, T-62, T-72) located in these storage depots; but what happens when that runs out in about 9 months? Quote HistoryQuoted: They've been making up the balance of losses above and beyond their new production with all their stored cold-war era stuff (T-55, T-62, T-72) located in these storage depots; but what happens when that runs out in about 9 months? Where is Ukraine getting new tanks? 10 here, 15 there spread out until 2026 isn't exactly countering the Russian manufacturing rate you want to downplay. A shitload of Russian tanks have been taken off the board by ATGM's, which are pretty much done showing up for Ukraine. Europe doesn't have shit left and we're years behind in replacing them.  Attached FileI'd be much less worried about Russia's ability to generate combat power than Ukraine's at this point. One of them has been completely revamping their industrial base into a wartime focus with the help of their allies. That country is not Ukraine, and we sure haven't done it either. Quoted: What it does do is provide a useful baseline for estimation with fudge factors. Which is able to be manipulated if you have a state policy sanitizing any documentation of losses. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:40:53 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tons of pro russian accounts have tried over and over to discredit Oryx; yet they remain in the game. No, Oryx doesn't capture every destroyed vehicle. No, Oryx doesn't take into account "destroyed" vehicles which are later recovered and the crew remains hosed out and a fresh coat of paint slapped on circa 1944-45. What it does do is provide a useful baseline for estimation with fudge factors. 1700 destroyed Russian tanks - Fudge of 30% (divide by 1.3) = 1300 destroyed Russian Tanks. Pre war estimates by think-tanks like the International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS) were that the Russians had 2,900 operational tanks in their military. 1300 / 2900 = 44% of the pre-war tank fleet has pretty much been destroyed or so badly damaged as to be irrecoverable. Yes, the Russians are producing new tanks -- about 40 to 50 new tanks (T-80, T-72, T-90) each month -- but that's about one week's rate of losses at a place like Robotyne. They've been making up the balance of losses above and beyond their new production with all their stored cold-war era stuff (T-55, T-62, T-72) located in these storage depots; but what happens when that runs out in about 9 months? Who is pro Russian? I'm just saying the numbers aren't accurate and you are agreeing with me by stating you have to multiply some arbitrary made up "fudge" factor of 30% to account for error. While it is interesting to look at the photos we do not know what % of destroyed vehicles haven't been documented. And while you try to account for error, no one truly knows what % of them are mis-identified. They can't verify claims from the Netherlands. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:43:31 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is pro Russian? I'm just saying the numbers aren't accurate and you are agreeing with me by stating you have to multiply some arbitrary made up "fudge" factor of 30% to account for error. There is an entire “legion” of pro-Russian accounts in GD and you have just become a legionnaire. 
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:43:33 AM EDT
[#13]
just 2 weeks
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:44:41 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is an entire “legion” of pro-Russian accounts in GD and you have just become a legionnaire. Questioning numbers equates pro russian? Hmmm. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:44:48 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OCW:There is an entire “legion” of pro-Russian accounts in GD and you have just become a legionnaire. Insulting someone by calling them a pro Russian when it’s not called for is pretty Low
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:45:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Questioning made up numbers equates pro russian? Hmm He’s trying to be funny but it’s failing. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:45:38 AM EDT
[#17]
The losses compared to the Soviet-Afghan war, that lasted much longer, are staggering.
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Posted: 1/14/2024 11:48:13 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Insulting someone by calling them a pro Russian when it’s not called for is pretty Low Quote HistoryQuoted: Originally Posted By OCW:There is an entire “legion” of pro-Russian accounts in GD and you have just become a legionnaire. Insulting someone by calling them a pro Russian when it’s not called for is pretty Low Yet, it’s a strong suit of yours. Still waiting for you to provide a list of the, according to you, “legion” of pro-Russian accounts in GD. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:00:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And what are Ukraines losses ? I would assume this works both ways. Well...technically since all of Ukraines stuff is given to them, can it really be called a loss to ukraine? |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:01:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yet, it’s a strong suit of yours. Still waiting for you to provide a list of the, according to you, “legion” of pro-Russian accounts in GD. Creating lists is against the coc since the last thread was locked. Sorry, won’t be breaking the coc  Who have I falsely accused? Please be specific
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:02:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they have access to all the equipment we abandoned in Afganistan? The Russians would go through that in a week. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:03:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe, but 2-3 years is still a long time and lots can happen in that time. No kidding. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:17:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Creating lists is against the coc since the last thread was locked. Sorry, won’t be breaking the coc Who have I falsely accused? Please be specific Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yet, it’s a strong suit of yours. Still waiting for you to provide a list of the, according to you, “legion” of pro-Russian accounts in GD. Creating lists is against the coc since the last thread was locked. Sorry, won’t be breaking the coc Who have I falsely accused? Please be specific Yet, you frequently post @Karankawa ‘s account, as an example of your self-manifested “legion”, without any regard for the COC. You aren’t reluctant to post a screenshot of his account, so post screenshots of some other “legion(aire)” accounts. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:35:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryYour first two stories claimed that Russia was running out of first rate tanks and would soon be forced to start fielding outdated tanks like the T-62. At the time, |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:39:45 PM EDT
[#25]
And if we don't send more money they will invade Europe1!!!
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:48:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Russia still has the upper hand. They are ramping up war production and will probably outlast the US and EU giving support to Ukraine.
If Russia runs low on tanks, they just have to stay on the defensive while they create more. In the meantime Ukraine would deplete their equipment attacking. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:48:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe the Russian equipment loss numbers. What I do not believe are the Ukrainian equipment loss numbers, especially since the government openly scrubs every piece of media being put out. Russia has spent the last year surging manufacturing capacity and is more like 90+ a month. The real question is how many can Ukraine make per month? The answer is zero. They rely on places like Germany who can make 24 per year. This ends up being a problem. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you get your info from a blog in the Netherlands put together by people who aren't in the country. You somehow believe they've managed to get a picture of every single destroyed vehicle and have accurately identified them with zero bias or effort to skew the numbers. (Bias from the soldiers sending photos as well not just the blog itself.) Lol. How many destroyed vehicles haven't been counted. I believe the Russian equipment loss numbers. What I do not believe are the Ukrainian equipment loss numbers, especially since the government openly scrubs every piece of media being put out. Quoted: Russia can natively produce 50 or so new tanks a month. They can repair a few hundred a month from their stockpiles. Russia has spent the last year surging manufacturing capacity and is more like 90+ a month. The real question is how many can Ukraine make per month? The answer is zero. They rely on places like Germany who can make 24 per year. This ends up being a problem. I’m curious how long they can afford that level of production |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:50:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And if we don't send more money they will invade Europe1!!! The Russians are strong enough to invade western europe |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:53:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My brain hurts just thinking about maintaining 5 different models if tank. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:00:22 PM EDT
[#30]
They are not running out - they are just being forced to use previous generations they had in storage.
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:04:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m curious how long they can afford that level of production Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So you get your info from a blog in the Netherlands put together by people who aren't in the country. You somehow believe they've managed to get a picture of every single destroyed vehicle and have accurately identified them with zero bias or effort to skew the numbers. (Bias from the soldiers sending photos as well not just the blog itself.) Lol. How many destroyed vehicles haven't been counted. I believe the Russian equipment loss numbers. What I do not believe are the Ukrainian equipment loss numbers, especially since the government openly scrubs every piece of media being put out. Quoted: Russia can natively produce 50 or so new tanks a month. They can repair a few hundred a month from their stockpiles. Russia has spent the last year surging manufacturing capacity and is more like 90+ a month. The real question is how many can Ukraine make per month? The answer is zero. They rely on places like Germany who can make 24 per year. This ends up being a problem. I’m curious how long they can afford that level of production And that’s the question. Ukraine has zero production, so what breaks first? Russia’s ability to wage war or the West losing the will to provide Ukraine with enough money and weapons for them to wage war? These costs, including paying for their government to continue to exist, are going to increase over time, not decrease, as their infrastructure continues to degrade. Eurotrasheans loathe having to spend money for their own defense, as a result of begging from US taxpayers for so long, and how many aid packages are left in chute from the US? These are questions that will be answered in relatively short order. It’s difficult for me to look at it objectively, at this point, and see a scenario in which Ukraine will be able accomplish what they still define as the “win”. Which is driving Russia entirely out of their territory, including Crimea. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:13:21 PM EDT
[#32]
'Russia is running out of X' again
Doubt |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:17:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they have access to all the equipment we abandoned in Afganistan? The pedophile released the (Russian) biggest arms dealer (in exchange for an American drug dealer) to broker the deal for them. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:22:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is pro Russian? Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is pro Russian? You realize there's more to social media than arfcom? Tons of pro russian accounts on TWITTER have tried to discredit Oryx before; those are the "Pro Russian accounts" I refer to. But then again, you're not actively following this war; so you don't know about this. I'm just saying the numbers aren't accurate and you are agreeing with me by stating you have to multiply some arbitrary made up "fudge" factor of 30% to account for error. While it is interesting to look at the photos we do not know what % of destroyed vehicles haven't been documented. And while you try to account for error, no one truly knows what % of them are mis-identified. That's what the 30% Fudge Factor is for. It's beyond frustrating having to explain basic facts to you. 99% accuracy will never be possible in a large scale war. They can't verify claims from the Netherlands. They have photos documenting every loss -- click on each individual loss and you'll see a photo. PS - they also have an Ukranian loss list as well. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html Oryx mainly deals with close up photos; there are other people on twitter who do loss tracking; one person tracks the type of vehicle lost and what caused the loss (hint, FPV drones predominate in causing them). In some cases, where the front line remains static long enough (and fighting intense enough), some people actually order satellite pass photos to start counting abandoned vehicles on the battlefield. This actually has a long provenance -- in 2019 someone realized that the Luftwaffe took aerial photos of the Battle of Kursk in 1943; and that those photos ended up in the US National Archives post WW2 -- so they started counting destroyed tanks in those photos. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/16161262.2019.1606545?journalCode=rjih20 https://defenceindepth.co/2020/01/10/in-pursuit-of-prokhorovka/ tl;dr -- Russian propagandists discredited. Therefore the location of one of the most famous battles of the Second World War was able to be photographed by the Luftwaffe in a single shot. Specifically and importantly photographs are available from 14 and 16 July when the battlefield was still in German hands (the Germans chose to withdraw from the area on 17 July). The battlefield remained largely unaltered from 12 July. As a result these photographs depict the Soviet armoured disaster (the entire 5th Guards Tank Army lost around 235 fighting vehicles written off) with absolute clarity. The large number of destroyed Soviet tanks of the 29th Tank Corps visible in and around the anti-tank ditch is astonishing. There are also important photographs from 7 August, which although three weeks later, further highlight the scale of the Soviet disaster. Comparisons made between the July and the August photographs are highly revealing. Destroyed tanks visible in both July and August indicate that they were in all probability lost on 12 July. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:24:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m curious how long they can afford that level of production They are still making tons of money off trading with the west and through their supposedly embargoed energy production. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:29:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My brain hurts just thinking about maintaining 5 different models if tank. Being done by chain-smoking mechanics who are likely legally drunk on vodka while they repair them. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:53:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't this the title of a bunch of news articles a year or two back? It seems they've been running out of tanks for a long time now! I was surprised the post date was today and last year. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:58:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being done by chain-smoking mechanics who are likely legally drunk on vodka while they repair them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My brain hurts just thinking about maintaining 5 different models if tank. Being done by chain-smoking mechanics who are likely legally drunk on vodka while they repair them. Banning smoking inside federal buildings has done irreparable damage to the DoD's automotive maintenance capabilities. I've seent it.
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:59:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they have access to all the equipment we abandoned in Afganistan? Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they have access to all the equipment we abandoned in Afganistan? I don't think we ever sent them tanks Quoted: As of 28 DEC 2023, this is what Ukraine has had either delivered or promised from the US, the UK, Germany and Spain. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/240604/94338797-AD76-4BEE-9B64-2F6E515386E8_png-3093907.JPG I think I remember reading that the Ukrainians are just using those Abrams tanks as artillery platforms. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:11:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also ran out of tanks 2 years ago, missiles 1.5 years ago. Ammunition 1 year ago.... Amazing isn’t it? Same dorks that preach a stolen election and mainstream media involvement blindly lap up the same media’s Ukrainian bullshit. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:11:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Russia to Flood Ukraine with 2,000 Upgraded Tanks
 Failed To Load Title As we explore the ongoing Russo-Ukraine war, there is a prevailing notion in the West that it could turn into a "forever war," seen in a negative light. However, for Russian President Vladimir Putin, it could be a calculated move. In response to substantial tank losses in the ongoing Ukraine conflict, Russia's state-owned Rostec corporation has undergone a remarkable transformation in its military strategy, specifically in the production of tanks. Recent reports suggest that the Russian army has received a staggering 1,900 tanks, with an additional 200 armored vehicles expected to roll in soon. This surge in tank acquisition follows a substantial increase in Russia's tank production for 2023, reported to have reached sevenfold according to various media outlets. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:12:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they have access to all the equipment we abandoned in Afganistan? Oh, we left tanks in AFG? Were they parked next to the F35’s? |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:19:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The pedophile released the (Russian) biggest arms dealer (in exchange for an American drug dealer) to broker the deal for them. Drug dealer? Are your facts mixed up or are you purposely blurring them? |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:23:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia to Flood Ukraine with 2,000 Upgraded Tanks  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpMj04P7i84As we explore the ongoing Russo-Ukraine war, there is a prevailing notion in the West that it could turn into a "forever war," seen in a negative light. However, for Russian President Vladimir Putin, it could be a calculated move. In response to substantial tank losses in the ongoing Ukraine conflict, Russia's state-owned Rostec corporation has undergone a remarkable transformation in its military strategy, specifically in the production of tanks. Recent reports suggest that the Russian army has received a staggering 1,900 tanks, with an additional 200 armored vehicles expected to roll in soon. This surge in tank acquisition follows a substantial increase in Russia's tank production for 2023, reported to have reached sevenfold according to various media outlets. From the same Russian propaganda YT channel bringing you hits such as: Russia unleashes SU-57 with radar stealth engines . Four Russian weapons devastating NATO equipment. Approaching Victory: Russia attacks 100 settlements in 24 hours. Some people just can't help lapping up the Russian propaganda and reposting it here. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:24:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Russia can make all the tanks they want to as long as Ukraine doesn’t run out of suicide drones.
I can’t count the number of videos I’ve seen of suicide drones taking out Russian tanks. I know this is not evidence for anything, but I’m willing to bet that suicide drones are much easier and cheaper to produce than a modern battle tank. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:28:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the same Russian propaganda YT channel bringing you hits such as: Russia unleashes SU-57 with radar stealth engines . Four Russian weapons devastating NATO equipment. Approaching Victory: Russia attacks 100 settlements in 24 hours. Some people just can't help lapping up the Russian propaganda and reposting it here. I guess everything is Russian propaganda. Russia will lose the war any day now! |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:31:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia to Flood Ukraine with 2,000 Upgraded Tanks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpMj04P7i84As we explore the ongoing Russo-Ukraine war, there is a prevailing notion in the West that it could turn into a "forever war," seen in a negative light. However, for Russian President Vladimir Putin, it could be a calculated move. In response to substantial tank losses in the ongoing Ukraine conflict, Russia's state-owned Rostec corporation has undergone a remarkable transformation in its military strategy, specifically in the production of tanks. Recent reports suggest that the Russian army has received a staggering 1,900 tanks, with an additional 200 armored vehicles expected to roll in soon. This surge in tank acquisition follows a substantial increase in Russia's tank production for 2023, reported to have reached sevenfold according to various media outlets. Oh for fuck's sake. Don't you feel the tiniest bit ashamed at being so gullible? |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:31:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Germans should make their move now and strike while the iron is hot. Operation Barbarossa 2: Electric Buggaloo Ja Ja! Ze third time ist ze charm! |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:32:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The losses compared to the Soviet-Afghan war, that lasted much longer, are staggering. Well, you know what they say about white westerners and warfare.... |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 2:34:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Possibly.
But the US is running out of 155 shells and $2 million missiles shooting at flying lawnmowers. I am more worried about our stockpiles than Russian tanks. |
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