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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:18:14 AM EDT
Russia to Debut T-72 Tank Modernized for Urban Combat The T-72 is the most popular tank currently in service. With over 22,000 produced, the T-72 is involved in almost every theater of war, and, with the transformation of warfare from symmetric to asymmetric combat, waged in urban areas, the T-72 must also adapt, to maintain its effectiveness in complex terrain. Part of this modernization is to equip the T-72 to be more effective and less vulnerable to close-in threats, such as obstacles, mines, IEDs and RPGs, all characteristic of urban warfare, The Russian company has designed this urban warfare kit based on the experience of the war in Syria. The tank displayed at KADEX 2016 shows additional reactive armor tiles expanding the protected areas on the turret and hull sides, and rear areas protected by slat armor. The tank also carries Counter-IED jammer to defeat radio-controlled threats. A distinctive feature is the protected shield built around the commander’s hatch, that enables the tank commander to observe to all sides and upwards, through the transparent shield and operate the heavy machine gun. For optronics and fire control the modernized tank employs the Sosna-U, multi-channel TV/thermal sight and missile guidance system. The gun is replaced with the improved 2A46M cannon and an auto loader modified to fire missiles. A dozen blade adds to the tank’s potential in obstacle clearing or counter-mobility operations. Considering large-scale modernization of its fleet of T-72 tanks, Kazakhstan has approached several providers from Russia, Turkey, and Israel. All are providing systems and components for the upgrading program to be done in the country. Among the systems displayed at KADEX was a T-72A fitted with a modern Optronics, thermal imaging and fire control provided by Elbit Systems. Another variant was the T-72B3 configured with a new urban warfare kit developed by the original manufacturer Uralvagonzavod. A Russian-Kazakh JV established by Uralvagonzavod and Kazakhstan Engineering in 2013 aims to modernize T-72 tanks and other variants based on this chassis. The JV is also set to convert decommissioned T-72 tanks into evacuation, obstacle-removing vehicles, and other heavy, special purpose machines. The Kazakh company has established another JV with the Turkish defense conglomerate Aselsan; this JV is also eying the T-72 upgrade as a major business opportunity. *snip* Link View Quote |
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I can just envision a crazy Ivan in there hitting things with a wrench to get them to work.
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Urban combat means firing RPGs (AT4s...) from a few stories up directly into the tops of those things.
Good luck! |
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Not trying to hate, but many here on this forum, and a few friends my age faced off in more recent years against the T-72, and the T-72 crews were up shit creek.. Is this a legit upgrade, or just Russia trying to polish a turd for export?
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Does it come with a manual about how to have a professional infantry support armor for the syrians?
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To use those vision blocks the TC still is going to expose a lot of his head. You'd think they'd put them a little lower to, I dunno, reduce cranial evacuation.
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CROWSKI must've been too many rubles for the comrades. Or they probably couldn't get it to work. Because they fucking suck at building anything.
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Hilarious.
Can't wait to see footage of the new and improved "fucking turret goes flying through the air" system. |
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Quoted: CROWSKI must've been too many rubles for the comrades. Or they probably couldn't get it to work. Because they fucking suck at building anything. View Quote IIRC the russian TC cupola allows for firing of the AA MG under armor already, seems redundant to have the trashcan around the commanders hatch if it had ARENA or DROZD or whatever the hell APS the russians use now, the trashcan would create a massive blindspot for the radar |
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Not trying to hate, but many here on this forum, and a few friends my age faced off in more recent years against the T-72, and the T-72 crews were up shit creek.. Is this a legit upgrade, or just Russia trying to polish a turd for export? View Quote Were you facing them tank to tank or were you on foot? Serious question. Never faced one myself. As far as the tank goes, they're facing enemies that put anti aircraft guns on Toyota pickup trucks. Even an old school Pershing would be quite a step up against them. |
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Were you facing them tank to tank or were you on foot? Serious question. Never faced one myself. As far as the tank goes, they're facing enemies that put anti aircraft guns on Toyota pickup trucks. Even an old school Pershing would be quite a step up against them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Not trying to hate, but many here on this forum, and a few friends my age faced off in more recent years against the T-72, and the T-72 crews were up shit creek.. Is this a legit upgrade, or just Russia trying to polish a turd for export? Were you facing them tank to tank or were you on foot? Serious question. Never faced one myself. As far as the tank goes, they're facing enemies that put anti aircraft guns on Toyota pickup trucks. Even an old school Pershing would be quite a step up against them. You might want to look up the current armored SVBIEDs. |
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You might want to look up the current armored SVBIEDs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Not trying to hate, but many here on this forum, and a few friends my age faced off in more recent years against the T-72, and the T-72 crews were up shit creek.. Is this a legit upgrade, or just Russia trying to polish a turd for export? Were you facing them tank to tank or were you on foot? Serious question. Never faced one myself. As far as the tank goes, they're facing enemies that put anti aircraft guns on Toyota pickup trucks. Even an old school Pershing would be quite a step up against them. You might want to look up the current armored SVBIEDs. Serious question #2: Wouldn't you still want to be in a tank rather than a HMMWV? And wouldn't that T72 be a better place to be than in Bradley, LAV, Striker, etc? <---- Not a tanker, doesn't know shit about them other than they can lay down Tohou levels of Dakka on Hadji shitstains and that makes me happy. |
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You know I would suspect they wouldn't have to up armor the tanks so much, if they would inform their customers that driving a group of tanks and APCs into a town square surrounded by high roof tops - then just idling them there, with no infantry support whatsoever - may not be a winning strategy.
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active missile defense and Israeli targeting systems? not bad
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Were you facing them tank to tank or were you on foot? Serious question. Never faced one myself. As far as the tank goes, they're facing enemies that put anti aircraft guns on Toyota pickup trucks. Even an old school Pershing would be quite a step up against them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Not trying to hate, but many here on this forum, and a few friends my age faced off in more recent years against the T-72, and the T-72 crews were up shit creek.. Is this a legit upgrade, or just Russia trying to polish a turd for export? Were you facing them tank to tank or were you on foot? Serious question. Never faced one myself. As far as the tank goes, they're facing enemies that put anti aircraft guns on Toyota pickup trucks. Even an old school Pershing would be quite a step up against them. So it's a polished turd to make up some cash to cover the low price of oil. Gotcha! Though friends and family nearly got killed by those idiots in said trucks. They wear robes, and sandals, and clean their AK's with a cloth soaked in some kind of oil,and yes they are dumb as a rock, but time and time again they came close to killing lot people I know, people that served with over the last 15 years. Almost mission killed a few M1's and Bradley's said friends were on.I guess the "new" T-72 is gonna have a rough time. But to be fair Gulf War vets here, and the vets I know only ever saw a T-72 with it turret a few hundred feet away. So I did have to ask. |
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1. NOTHING NEW
2. IT STILL HAS THE CAROUSEL OF DEATH 3. SOVIET SHIT SHITTIEST SHIT |
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Not trying to hate, but many here on this forum, and a few friends my age faced off in more recent years against the T-72, and the T-72 crews were up shit creek.. Is this a legit upgrade, or just Russia trying to polish a turd for export? View Quote The basic T-72 design has already been pushed to it's limits under the name "T-90". The base armor is not thick enough to stop a modern 120mm NATO Sabot round. The auto-loader remains unprotected, and it will blast the turret into orbit like a Saturn V. The vehicle requires ERA to protect it adequately against threats, and this ERA does not provide 100% coverage nor multi-hit capability. The gunnery systems have been getting better. Sosna-U is a decent IR sight. The stabilization and accuracy of the main gun is probably not up to western standards yet. It does have a long range, gun launched ATGM system that most NATO tanks don't have an equivalent to, although the Israeli LAHAT is somewhat comparable and compatible with NATO 120mm and 105mm guns. |
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After a quarter of a century they never figured out that having the ammo secured in the back, and in special area in case it went boom was the right call? Ouch!
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A look inside a T-72B3. If I'm not mistaken, this was ordered instead of the T-90 since the T-90 was just too damn expensive, and upgrades of T-72s to this standard are ongoing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ljz_Bm9Rk Notice the following: 1. It's loud as shit. 2. Crew communication consists primarily of yelling at each other. "Agoyn! Agoyn! Agoyn!" is the TC telling his gunner to "Fire!". 3. The autoloader is just waiting to load one of the crew into the gun along with the ammunition. 4. Bore evacuator system doesn't seem to work for shit, even with the hatches open. 5. TC appears to be firing the PKT 7.62 Coax by pressing the manual trigger, possibly because they can't even keep the normal firing system working 6. Near the end of the video, we can see that the thermal system is OK, but gets disrupted so bad by firing the main gun that it's not possible to use it for observing fall of shot. Compare this to a Soviet era T-64, and it doesn't look like much changed in their tanks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4B4Yd6q-zg Notice here the "Korzina" ("Basket") style autoloader functions a bit differently, but still does an excellent job of blowing the fucking turret off your own tank if you get hit. Notice that they're still using the same communications system of just yelling at each other in this tank as well. TC yelling "Strelyat!" at the gunner is the "Fire!" command. I understand that in the west they have this thing called a "CVC Helmet" with some kind of intercom thing so you don't need to scream and yell past your main gun to give orders. Just for giggles, inside a T-80 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSzh2Ot2niY Pretty much just a T-64 with a turbine engine. Compare that to these: USMC M1A1's on the range: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TLhih8gijQ Inside a Leopard 2, firing on the move: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwXwrx_lkSg |
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The auto-loader system stores 22 projectiles with accompanying separate combustible case powder charges in a "carousel" underneath the turret. In the case of Sabot projectiles, the projectile has an additional incremental powder charge around it's sabot assembly. http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/images/4/4a/Autoloader.jpg An additional 22 projectiles and charges are stored anywhere the designers could find a place to stick them. Inside recesses in the fuel tanks, attached to the crews seat backs, in corners, taped to the crews heads or installed in place of fire extinguishers, etc. http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q197/hwj_chim/t72-109_zps5a660ed4.jpg~original A penetration igniting one of the stored charges will blow the tank to bits, and launch the turret. The auto loader carousel provides 22 powder chargers crammed together in close proximity, just waiting to make a nice little chain reaction and blow the turret off. Some updates to the T-72, or field mods done by crews, are to leave only the rounds in the auto loader and store the spare ammo outside the tank or leave it behind. This does nothing to address the carousel of death, which is still plenty of powder to launch the turret to the moon. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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2. IT STILL HAS THE CAROUSEL OF DEATH What's the carousel of death? The auto-loader system stores 22 projectiles with accompanying separate combustible case powder charges in a "carousel" underneath the turret. In the case of Sabot projectiles, the projectile has an additional incremental powder charge around it's sabot assembly. http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/images/4/4a/Autoloader.jpg An additional 22 projectiles and charges are stored anywhere the designers could find a place to stick them. Inside recesses in the fuel tanks, attached to the crews seat backs, in corners, taped to the crews heads or installed in place of fire extinguishers, etc. http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q197/hwj_chim/t72-109_zps5a660ed4.jpg~original A penetration igniting one of the stored charges will blow the tank to bits, and launch the turret. The auto loader carousel provides 22 powder chargers crammed together in close proximity, just waiting to make a nice little chain reaction and blow the turret off. Some updates to the T-72, or field mods done by crews, are to leave only the rounds in the auto loader and store the spare ammo outside the tank or leave it behind. This does nothing to address the carousel of death, which is still plenty of powder to launch the turret to the moon. At first I was thinking "Not a bad upgrade" Then I saw your post. What a waste of steel. The IED jammer was a nice touch, but wasted on a shit tank. |
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Dunno why they didn't SBR that thing. Don't really need a long bbl against terrorists.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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it's not only the Russians that have exposed ammo in the turret British Challenger 2 https://s17-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fi1131.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm550%2FJimWarford5%2FChallenger2_AmmoReplenishment_TurretStorage_1.jpg&sp=40c5ed927becc51331ea1eed05ab1d28 https://s17-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fimage.noelshack.com%2Ffichiers%2F2013%2F47%2F1385291646-challenger2turretstowage.jpg&sp=23f2dda8614c426405dfcef672e6c0fa Israeli Merkava 4 (iirc, the individual sleeves are armored) https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fs009.radikal.ru%2Fi310%2F1010%2F48%2F85c71224791d.jpg&sp=b732cfcddbacc5a918b1f0768cc948b1 View Quote The Challenger is an interesting vehicle. Yes, they store ammo in the turret, exposed. The HESH shells aren't likely to go off too quick in the event the vehicle is hit, and the Sabot rounds are inert. Due to the fact that the British 120mm rifled gun sucks at life, their Sabot projectiles don't even have a tracer element, in a vain effort to squeeze all the rod length they can into their KE ammo. The powder charges are stored in charge bins with a pressurized water jacket. The idea is that if the charge bin gets punctured, it will douse the charges and prevent the turret from popping off from a giant kaboom. This is "wet stowage". The Merkavas are armoring each round. Don't know how effective that is. Note that vehicles firing fully cased ammunition, like the M60A1/A3 with the 105mm, the Stryker, Merkava Mk1 and Mk2, etc, get a little protection from having metal cased main gun ammo. Yes the ammo can blow up, but having each round in it's own little tube frequently gives the crew enough time to bail out, and it's more likely to go off over time rather than all at once. |
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A look inside a T-72B3. If I'm not mistaken, this was ordered instead of the T-90 since the T-90 was just too damn expensive, and upgrades of T-72s to this standard are ongoing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ljz_Bm9Rk Notice the following: 1. It's loud as shit. 2. Crew communication consists primarily of yelling at each other. "Agoyn! Agoyn! Agoyn!" is the TC telling his gunner to "Fire!". 3. The autoloader is just waiting to load one of the crew into the gun along with the ammunition. 4. Bore evacuator system doesn't seem to work for shit, even with the hatches open. 5. TC appears to be firing the PKT 7.62 Coax by pressing the manual trigger, possibly because they can't even keep the normal firing system working 6. Near the end of the video, we can see that the thermal system is OK, but gets disrupted so bad by firing the main gun that it's not possible to use it for observing fall of shot. Compare this to a Soviet era T-64, and it doesn't look like much changed in their tanks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4B4Yd6q-zg Notice here the "Korzina" ("Basket") style autoloader functions a bit differently, but still does an excellent job of blowing the fucking turret off your own tank if you get hit. Notice that they're still using the same communications system of just yelling at each other in this tank as well. TC yelling "Strelyat!" at the gunner is the "Fire!" command. I understand that in the west they have this thing called a "CVC Helmet" with some kind of intercom thing so you don't need to scream and yell past your main gun to give orders. Just for giggles, inside a T-80 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSzh2Ot2niY Pretty much just a T-64 with a turbine engine. Compare that to these: USMC M1A1's on the range: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TLhih8gijQ Inside a Leopard 2, firing on the move: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwXwrx_lkSg View Quote Thales thermal. Greedy Frogs. |
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You know I would suspect they wouldn't have to up armor the tanks so much, if they would inform their customers that driving a group of tanks and APCs into a town square surrounded by high roof tops - then just idling them there, with no infantry support whatsoever - may not be a winning strategy. View Quote But then the Russians don't get to sell them as many replacement tanks. |
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