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Posted: 6/9/2023 12:49:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, ISIS killed or captured several Turkish Leopard 2s. It happens.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132244/17F6E86D-D052-4946-B226-4BD037BDE28D_jpe-2845135.JPG I didn't know western tanks popped their tops too. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 12:50:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't know western tanks popped their tops too. The turrets are just held in by gravity. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 12:50:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Why does every article/tweet need to be written with such sensationalism?
“For the first time…” Oh yeah, because it fans the flames of its base. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 12:51:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The turrets are just held in by gravity. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 12:52:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're doing exactly what the Russians were doing that we make fun of. Just sending armor down the road with no supporting arms. They could easily have had MANPADs, Gepards, BUKs and and such to deal with aerial threats. Somebody hasn't been watching all the Lancet videos the last few months. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 12:54:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Scary Stuff right there. I am guessing the anti air capability of the Ukrainian advancing force is somewhere between subpar to nonexistent. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It doesn't look good, but when you are getting missiles thrown at you from 10km away, nothing looks good. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1451hru/ru_pov_ka52_hits_and_destroys_active_ukrainian/ Scary Stuff right there. I am guessing the anti air capability of the Ukrainian advancing force is somewhere between subpar to nonexistent. Somewhat that, but most of the problem is that attack helis fit in a sweet spot. They can easily out range or maneuver SHORAD, destroy an entire column in 5min and leave. The only real defense is fighter cover which is a huge extra risk to add to the fight. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 12:54:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speed can be a type of security This guy gets it. Where the Abrams is superior to other tanks is moving cross country at 40mph. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 12:57:44 PM EDT
[#8]
They got one of each.
One. Good job? |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 12:58:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't know western tanks popped their tops too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Meh, ISIS killed or captured several Turkish Leopard 2s. It happens.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132244/17F6E86D-D052-4946-B226-4BD037BDE28D_jpe-2845135.JPG I didn't know western tanks popped their tops too. Leo 2's have hull storage ammo, not just bustle rack. It would be wise to not leave a full load of ammo, if any at all, in the hull when in combat.  Its notable that none of the western vehicles appear to have catastrophically self destructed. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:00:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've genuinely wondered why people keep harping on this? As shitty as Russian tactics are, the West knows its going to lose a good bit of equipment in this offensive. The amateurs and know-nothings think everything made in the West is invincible. Experience is a vital asset and there is only one way to get it. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:02:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Did the ukes bunch up in that vid? Rookie mistake or couldn't move quick enough?
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:03:37 PM EDT
[#12]
We'll see a lot of western equipment burning by the time this is over. They have to take Zaphorizhzhia to win the war. If they have to lose some tanks/APCs/IFVs to do it, that's a price worth paying. Knocking Crimea out of the war shortens the lines a lot.
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:04:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Look how much equipment we lost in Afghanistan in the last 3 years
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:07:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oryx has tallied photographic proof of 2000 Russian tanks lost 2023*** |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:07:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look how much equipment we lost in Afghanistan in the last 3 years Very little. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:07:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its going to happen. Now whether they were death by turret pop or just disabled mechanically and abandoned are 2 different things. I wouldnt mind seeing what a platoon of current US spec M1A2s would do against Soviet armor. If you put a trained and combat experienced US tank battalion with a command staff that really knows what they're doing in M60's they'll fuck shit up. It's more about the indian than the arrow. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:08:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you put a trained and combat experienced US tank battalion with a command staff that really knows what they're doing in M60's they'll fuck shit up. It's more about the indian than the arrow. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Its going to happen. Now whether they were death by turret pop or just disabled mechanically and abandoned are 2 different things. I wouldnt mind seeing what a platoon of current US spec M1A2s would do against Soviet armor. If you put a trained and combat experienced US tank battalion with a command staff that really knows what they're doing in M60's they'll fuck shit up. It's more about the indian than the arrow. My thinking as well. US crews, planning and leadership would take a giant shit on Russian forces. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:09:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Does anyone have any proof of this because I am hearing even the Russians are saying it is not true, and analyst say the pictures looked more like harvesting combines.
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:10:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They got one of each. One. Good job? https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1455t6v
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:13:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone have any proof of this because I am hearing even the Russians are saying it is not true, and analyst say the pictures looked more like harvesting combines. They did blow up combines a few days ago and called them tanks, but these are real losses. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:15:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm all good with knowing tanks, IFVs are going to be destroyed. But at least do so using proper doctrine. Rolling down the road, in broad daylight, closely packed together is not going to cut it.  I agree. I hesitate to outguess them but they knew there was a minefield to one side and a hedgerow on the other, with Russian drones in the area. It was an obvious trap. What I can't see is if there were other alternate routes or tactics that could have been used. Armor is not my thing. My job was to make huge mushroom clouds and level targets in one blast. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:17:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My thinking as well. US crews, planning and leadership would take a giant shit on Russian forces. Being mech in the last decade, even mediocre armored leaders could conduct better warfare than anyone east of the Danube. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:25:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They did blow up combines a few days ago and called them tanks, but these are real losses. Thanks for the clarification |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:25:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My thinking as well. US crews, planning and leadership would take a giant shit on Russian forces. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Its going to happen. Now whether they were death by turret pop or just disabled mechanically and abandoned are 2 different things. I wouldnt mind seeing what a platoon of current US spec M1A2s would do against Soviet armor. If you put a trained and combat experienced US tank battalion with a command staff that really knows what they're doing in M60's they'll fuck shit up. It's more about the indian than the arrow. My thinking as well. US crews, planning and leadership would take a giant shit on Russian forces. Exactly - aside of raw number advantage, it's the better tactics and the better plan that win armor battles much more than the sophistication of the tanks themselves. The Yom Kippur war for example. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:45:14 PM EDT
[#25]
Russian soldiers are forcing POWs to unlock their phones. I hope there is no useful data on those devices, and I pray those POWs are being treated humanely.
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:48:08 PM EDT
[#26]
I watched an analysis of one of these losses. The person was breaking down how, based on the make-up of vehicles and the tactics seen, the Ukrainians are trying to use old Soviet tactics with modern Western equipment, and they weren't sure how that would play out.
They also were baffled as to why Ukraine is staging these armor columns under Russia's artillery umbrella rather than staging them outside of artillery range. Basically was saying Ukraine is throwing away good equipment by doing that. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:49:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched an analysis of one of these losses. The person was breaking down how, based on the make-up of vehicles and the tactics seen, the Ukrainians are trying to use old Soviet tactics with modern Western equipment, and they weren't sure how that would play out. They also were baffled as to why Ukraine is staging these armor columns under Russia's artillery umbrella rather than staging them outside of artillery range. Basically was saying Ukraine is throwing away good equipment by doing that. They're not really paying for it, except with bodies so... |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:54:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Things get destroyed in war, who knew?!
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:56:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Somewhat that, but most of the problem is that attack helis fit in a sweet spot. They can easily out range or maneuver SHORAD, destroy an entire column in 5min and leave. The only real defense is fighter cover which is a huge extra risk to add to the fight. And that’s why Ukraine needed F16’s and a competent SEAD/DEAD campaign a year ago, and needs to gain air superiority. It’s the massive difference between the way USA/NATO would fight this war, and a country with limited resources |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 1:58:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone have any proof of this because I am hearing even the Russians are saying it is not true, and analyst say the pictures looked more like harvesting combines. lol Did you all even watch the videos in the OP?
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Posted: 6/9/2023 2:00:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone have any proof of this because I am hearing even the Russians are saying it is not true, and analyst say the pictures looked more like harvesting combines. @zander712 That’s 2 different videos. You’re thinking of the video where an attack helo blows up a farm of John Deere’s and the Russians claimed it was leopards. This video, the column of tanks is bunched up in daylight, gets hit by AT mines and artillery spotted by drone |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 2:00:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And that’s why Ukraine needed F16’s and a competent SEAD/DEAD campaign a year ago, and needs to gain air superiority. It’s the massive difference between the way USA/NATO would fight this war, and a country with limited resources Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Somewhat that, but most of the problem is that attack helis fit in a sweet spot. They can easily out range or maneuver SHORAD, destroy an entire column in 5min and leave. The only real defense is fighter cover which is a huge extra risk to add to the fight. And that’s why Ukraine needed F16’s and a competent SEAD/DEAD campaign a year ago, and needs to gain air superiority. It’s the massive difference between the way USA/NATO would fight this war, and a country with limited resources That simply isn't happen without US people doing it. No one this planet does it but us and Ukraine barely has an air force in the first place. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 2:01:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When is this going to end?? When I do not know, how I can help. With the whole place destroyed, Zelenskyy living in a villa in Switzerland, the U.S. taxpayer picking up the cost and surplus supplies hitting the E.E. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 2:08:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did the ukes bunch up in that vid? Rookie mistake or couldn't move quick enough? What you don't see is the successful route to the side that made it through. There's 100% a reason russia/pro russia TG is only pushing this particular instance. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 2:18:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's 100% a reason russia/pro russia TG is only pushing this particular instance. Ukraine is mostly having huge victories along the front -> Russia gets this one victory -> Russia spams this one video for moral/demoral/whatever -> One possibility Ukraine tried only this one attack -> Russia gets this victory -> It's the only video of anything happening, so they post it up -> Another possibility I say "one possibility" loosely, because Ukraine slaying Russians up and down the front without telling us would be a little weird. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 2:51:48 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 6/9/2023 2:54:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Equipment losses are expected in war no?
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Posted: 6/9/2023 2:56:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Can you believe that!!!?!?!?!
4 days in an Russia wiped out the Ukrainian counteroffensive of 2 Leopards and 4 Bradley’s! Ukrainian is finished! |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 2:59:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can you believe that!!!?!?!?! 4 days in an Russia wiped out the Ukrainian counteroffensive of 2 Leopards and 4 Bradley’s! Ukrainian is finished! I know you are not a real RuskieBro a real RuskieBro would have said "The Ukrainian". 
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:00:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched an analysis of one of these losses. The person was breaking down how, based on the make-up of vehicles and the tactics seen, the Ukrainians are trying to use old Soviet tactics with modern Western equipment, and they weren't sure how that would play out. They also were baffled as to why Ukraine is staging these armor columns under Russia's artillery umbrella rather than staging them outside of artillery range. Basically was saying Ukraine is throwing away good equipment by doing that. Won't say where, but I've been in .mil forums saying that as well. They're using Soviet armor doctrine still. *fucking face palm* |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:04:11 PM EDT
[#41]
That shows pretty poor tactics, I thought they were better than that with all the training they have recieved.
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:05:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Bradley's are not really a "heavy".
Correct me if O am wrong, but I don't believe an Abrams was ever taken out by enemy fire. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:13:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bradley's are not really a "heavy". Correct me if O am wrong, but I don't believe an Abrams was ever taken out by enemy fire. Plenty of Iraqi and Egyptian Abrams have been taken out |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:20:04 PM EDT
[#44]
what's the kill ratio?
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:20:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They used their best armor for an unmanned probing attack? Bullshit. even Ukrainians don't believe that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Word is that Ukraine has been using remote controlled vehicles for probing attacks of the frontline, so there are no troops inside and that's why they seem abandoned. The counteroffensive hasn't started officially yet Bullshit. even Ukrainians don't believe that. This! |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:20:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bradley's are not really a "heavy". Correct me if O am wrong, but I don't believe an Abrams was ever taken out by enemy fire. You'll see a ton of knocked out Abrams using the kind the kind of "doctrine " these units are using. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:23:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Word is that Ukraine has been using remote controlled vehicles for probing attacks of the frontline, so there are no troops inside and that's why they seem abandoned. The counteroffensive hasn't started officially yet You need to find a better "word." A more realistic Word is that things are quite a bit different on the ground than most here believe. |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:25:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched an analysis of one of these losses. The person was breaking down how, based on the make-up of vehicles and the tactics seen, the Ukrainians are trying to use old Soviet tactics with modern Western equipment, and they weren't sure how that would play out. They also were baffled as to why Ukraine is staging these armor columns under Russia's artillery umbrella rather than staging them outside of artillery range. Basically was saying Ukraine is throwing away good equipment by doing that. Because they are stupid…
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:26:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know you are not a real RuskieBro a real RuskieBro would have said "The Ukrainian". “The Ukraine” |
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Posted: 6/9/2023 3:32:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They didn't. It was fucking dumb. Bunched up on the only un-mined path through an open field and a rus drone called in arty fire. Probably left lane campers. |
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