[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 100 of 142)
|
Quoted: Again, IMO. I have both, love the reliability of Glocks, the ergos have always been meh to me. The RXM fixes that and a ton more. I do agree though that time will tell, it's still young versus the glock that is the same design it has been for....40 years? Anyways, back on topic - absolutely nothing in common with the rube goldberg MIM CAD bullshit design of the p320. When the design is so bad that you can't even tell exactly where it is failing, that's a sign. But muh service pistol! Hope to shoot my RXM tomorrow. |
|
Quoted: Moonies own Kahr & Auto-Ordnance. Quoted: Quoted: What is the moonies stuff? Moonies own Kahr & Auto-Ordnance. Justin Moon owns Kahr and Auto Ordinance and has 7 Fire Arms Patents. He is no Dummy |
|
Quoted: Yeah a cult runs Kahr. The question that I’ve never had answered by anyone is “why does that matter”? I can’t find allegations of any real wrong doing. I own two Kahr pistols. They’re very well made and have a very good double action trigger (or at least that’s what they call it given it is a striker design). It’s said that they have good customer service too. So, serious question, why does it matter that Moonies run Kahr? they should buy sigusa |
|
Quoted: I have seven P365s. I still trust that gun and carry one daily. Personal Incredulity Fallacy The Personal Incredulity Fallacy is a logical fallacy which occurs when someone dismisses a claim without providing evidence or logical reasoning to support their disbelief. This is often done because the individual finds the claim to be so unbelievable that they do not feel the need to further investigate it. It is an example of ad hoc reasoning, where an individual is attempting to disprove a claim without any reasoning or justification. This type of fallacy is often used as a means of avoiding the need to provide evidence or logical reasoning to support one’s own beliefs or opinions. The fallacy relies on the notion that if something seems too unbelievable to be true, then it must not be true. It is an example of confirmation bias, where a person is biased in favor of their own beliefs and is more likely to accept claims that support their own views. This type of bias can lead to incorrect conclusions being drawn and can lead to false beliefs being accepted as true. The fallacy also relies on the false assumption that everything which can be imagined must be true, which is clearly not the case. Personal incredulity is often used as a form of psychological defense mechanism, where the individual is attempting to protect themselves from accepting a claim which contradicts their own beliefs. It can also be a form of cognitive dissonance, where an individual is uncomfortable with accepting a claim which conflicts with their beliefs and is attempting to avoid the dissonance caused by accepting the claim. It is often used in debates or discussions, where one party is trying to discredit the other party’s claims without providing any evidence to support their own beliefs....  |
|
Quoted: Why? I don’t think there’s anything about the Moonies that’s a deal breaker for unrelated business. What he should read about is Kahr firearms. There was a time when they were competitive, but that ended a long time ago. Kahr was outperformed by the single stack striker guns, and that was before we got the micros we have now. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Briefly thought about replacing my 320's with 365's and then realized I would be happier buying from a company that hasn't behaved like Sig. Pondering kahr now. Read about the moonies first. Why? I don’t think there’s anything about the Moonies that’s a deal breaker for unrelated business. What he should read about is Kahr firearms. There was a time when they were competitive, but that ended a long time ago. Kahr was outperformed by the single stack striker guns, and that was before we got the micros we have now. I don't believe in supporting cults but to each their own. Kahr firearms themselves leave much to be desired IME. A family member has one that had to go back twice and is still unreliable. It sits in the safe now. There is nothing they currently make that isnt outclassed. |
|
Quoted: Personal Incredulity Fallacy The Personal Incredulity Fallacy is a logical fallacy which occurs when someone dismisses a claim without providing evidence or logical reasoning to support their disbelief. This is often done because the individual finds the claim to be so unbelievable that they do not feel the need to further investigate it. It is an example of ad hoc reasoning, where an individual is attempting to disprove a claim without any reasoning or justification. This type of fallacy is often used as a means of avoiding the need to provide evidence or logical reasoning to support one’s own beliefs or opinions. The fallacy relies on the notion that if something seems too unbelievable to be true, then it must not be true. It is an example of confirmation bias, where a person is biased in favor of their own beliefs and is more likely to accept claims that support their own views. This type of bias can lead to incorrect conclusions being drawn and can lead to false beliefs being accepted as true. The fallacy also relies on the false assumption that everything which can be imagined must be true, which is clearly not the case. Personal incredulity is often used as a form of psychological defense mechanism, where the individual is attempting to protect themselves from accepting a claim which contradicts their own beliefs. It can also be a form of cognitive dissonance, where an individual is uncomfortable with accepting a claim which conflicts with their beliefs and is attempting to avoid the dissonance caused by accepting the claim. It is often used in debates or discussions, where one party is trying to discredit the other party’s claims without providing any evidence to support their own beliefs.... https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/18/article-2525602-1A2B2A3600000578-553_634x408.jpg Quoted: Quoted: I have seven P365s. I still trust that gun and carry one daily. Personal Incredulity Fallacy The Personal Incredulity Fallacy is a logical fallacy which occurs when someone dismisses a claim without providing evidence or logical reasoning to support their disbelief. This is often done because the individual finds the claim to be so unbelievable that they do not feel the need to further investigate it. It is an example of ad hoc reasoning, where an individual is attempting to disprove a claim without any reasoning or justification. This type of fallacy is often used as a means of avoiding the need to provide evidence or logical reasoning to support one’s own beliefs or opinions. The fallacy relies on the notion that if something seems too unbelievable to be true, then it must not be true. It is an example of confirmation bias, where a person is biased in favor of their own beliefs and is more likely to accept claims that support their own views. This type of bias can lead to incorrect conclusions being drawn and can lead to false beliefs being accepted as true. The fallacy also relies on the false assumption that everything which can be imagined must be true, which is clearly not the case. Personal incredulity is often used as a form of psychological defense mechanism, where the individual is attempting to protect themselves from accepting a claim which contradicts their own beliefs. It can also be a form of cognitive dissonance, where an individual is uncomfortable with accepting a claim which conflicts with their beliefs and is attempting to avoid the dissonance caused by accepting the claim. It is often used in debates or discussions, where one party is trying to discredit the other party’s claims without providing any evidence to support their own beliefs.... https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/18/article-2525602-1A2B2A3600000578-553_634x408.jpg In fairness, most of the issues are with P320's - and its unsafe fire control unit. Not a lot of P365 AD stories. But yea, Im now Fuck Sig on pretty much everything, too, so I get it. |
|
Quoted: The NRA pushed for the NICS system... Fuck yeah they did and it was awesome! Those under age 48 have no idea what buying a gun was like before NICS came on line in 1998. Instead of bagging on the NRA, do five minutes of Googling and you'll know why your post is stupid. Effing Millennials. Attached File |
|
Quoted: Fuck yeah they did and it was awesome! Those under age 48 have no idea what buying a gun was like before NICS came on line in 1998. Instead of bagging on the NRA, do five minutes of Googling and you'll know why your post is stupid. Effing Millennials. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/200-816.gif They forgot what the "I" in NICS stands for. |
|
Quoted: Fuck yeah they did and it was awesome! Those under age 48 have no idea what buying a gun was like before NICS came on line in 1998. Instead of bagging on the NRA, do five minutes of Googling and you'll know why your post is stupid. Effing Millennials. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/200-816.gif Prior to '94 I scribbled some shit on a 4473 and walked out the door. |
|
Quoted: I'm not going to get into whether my sympathy towards the situation and the tragic death of the Airman is good enough for you or not. That would be pointless. We can just agree to disagree. I remain steadfast on how I feel, and yes it's a shame he is no longer with us and I can only hope the Air Force finds the responsible party, and holds them accountable to the fullest extent. You riding along on your high horse like there is damning evidence the P320 definitively killed the Airman, frankly blows my mind. I didn't think the direct Cause of Death has been established yet, has it? If the SIG is the culprit, than SIG deserves all the punishment it has coming. When that day comes, then I will be disappointed in SIG and look for some new guns. I don't think we are there yet. Why you'd Gaslight like you don't have a choice is funny to me. Quit your job if your a cop or take the ARTY or request the Court Marshall and get separated. They'll vindicate you like they did those that chose separation over the shot, but you got to be able to put your money where your mouth is and stop hoping the echo chamber will do it for you! Back in the day when I was Active Duty I never did anything I didn't want to. If I felt the way you did about the P320 I would definitely hold my line, not tow theirs and carry it! Now you getting worked up because I don't want to rush to assume or accuse without hearing the facts is not my problem. If there was damning evidence maybe I would be convinced but my apologies for not believing in your Bigfoot bro. Since you've done some homework about me before typing, allow me to do the rest.... No, I do not work for SIG but I probably would if given the opportunity. We have had a long and good relationship. They've never let me down and they've gone above and beyond for me. If there's a chance at cleaning up this mess, I would love to be on the clean up team. I'm confident they'd call me the Winston Wolf if they brought me in! Do I post about SIG? Yes, I post about the models I own and the things I like about them. Not to uncommon in a gun forum I would think. Many here are just upset I still have SIG's back but I don't just fold like the masses when I believe in something, so stop being upset and let it go, you don't have to understand my loyalty just like I can't get you to understand how they've earned it throughout the years. Oh and I tend to support those that support me, regardless of their popularity. Fortunately for me, my P320's haven't shot me yet and the other 14 SIG's I own haven't had this issue, but give it time and the echo chamber here will grow to consume every SIG, and your brand will be next. Or my SIG will shoot my dick off, right. Either outcome will be much deserved for whoever is wrong. Personally I hope I'm wrong and you're right... That would mean there's just a few of us loyalist idiots instead of many of you believe it all, Me too idiots! One way or another, the unfortunate death of the Airman has polarized this issue way more than a debate in ARFCOM so I'm curious to see where this goes now. In WA State it will be hard to dig myself out of the SIG hole, but anything is possible just like a SIG shooting by itself so I remain open minded but unconvinced. Just deal with it! Doesn't mean I'm more or less American or lacking of empathy, just means I am not convinced. What are you even talking about? I didn’t say it definitely killed the airman. I called you out for shilling for Sig in the next sentence by saying “However until the investigation is complete, throwing the blame on the M18 seems a bit premature.” Again, that’s because as you clearly admitted you’re loyal to a corporation. We are having a different conversation about the p320. I applaud the decision to pull the p320 until this is figured out. Here’s why… When a mil/officer gun goes off it puts not just him but other officers, the public and the mission in jeopardy. I’m in agreement and advocating to actually looking at the p320 pistol just like BRF started. However, IMO without more info the risk to anyone issued the p320 is unacceptable. I say this taking into account the numerous reported uncommanded discharge allegations involving p320 over the years. I agree one single event wouldn’t justify this response; facts dependent. I also believe the drop issue, even fixed, shows Sig wasn’t as detailed in the firearm as they claimed. Sig still manufactured a modern duty pistol that wasn’t drop safe. If that had been the end of it that’s still not insignificant. What the USAF did by pulling the p320 for evaluation is the responsible decision (probably involved the totality of circumstances surrounding the tragic event and so many reported instances over the years/ BRF report). I am not saying the p320 is without a doubt at fault in the airman’s death or any other event. Each incident deserves a thorough investigation. Not all will be investigated well unfortunately. Also, we are just talking about a pistol. The p320 doesn’t do anything that another pistol can’t do until a review is complete. I’m tired of living in the word created by lawyers at the expense of common sense. I’d say the same thing if it was Glock HK LaRue (my avatar) or so on. I’m not loyal to a brand; why would anyone be that way? A pause and revaluation of the p320 at this point doesn’t cause harm. I’m not gas lighting about a choice to carry the gun or quit your job as you mentioned… I clearly said on a gun forum we tend to be more informed about firearms than most. Therefore, I am not making an assumption that the airman even knew about the p320 allegations. He is relying on the procurement process to equip him for his job. A member just posted above he talked to a guy with a p320 at his church that had no clue about the controversy. We should be vanguards for the 2a. This is not good for the 2a at all. I don’t want to see Sig fail. I will say having spent time with BRF those guys do weigh heavily with me though. I thought their report was fair without making assumptions. I’ll end it the same way I ended my first post… an individual can choose to keep carrying an Sig p320. But as for military and LE; we are having a different discussion. Any risk of a pistol having an uncommanded discharge is unacceptable. If I didn’t say things above eloquently I apologize for that. I want to see people make it home to their family after shift. |
 SIG P320 Un Commanded Discharge and its Repeatable |
|
I still own two Sigs but won’t be buying any more Attached File |
|
Quoted: Eh, both Remington & Taurus had shake awake sears. Taurus was forced to do a complete recall & survived, Remington did not. The Remington 700 issues had absolutely nothing to do with their bankruptcy. Intentional mismanagement by Cerberus: How America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt |
|
Holy buttfucking buttfuck. We're getting closer, and this is yet another piece of evidence that my OG theory posted earlier in this thread was correct. So far we've got the following 100% confirmed: 1. The striker safety does not work in many guns through various mechanisms (shit tolerances and/or QC to ensure tolerances are being met, unseated spring, weak spring, broken spring, gunk in the action) 2. The sear can sympathetically disengage the striker safety without a trigger pull via backwards feedback. 3. The manual safety on M17/M18 models does not lock the sear, only the trigger. 4. Some number of guns come with a hook on sear/sear engagement surfaces that leads to dead triggers. 5. Torque on the slide/frame can cause the gun to go off when the trigger is not fully depressed though the entire trigger pull distance. Honestly, any one of these issues should disqualify the P320 from production, but in this case, it has all 5. I can't believe people are defending this gun at this point.  Based on this latest video, how much do you want to bet that the MSP issue was caused by: torque and slide/frame movement + causing the sear/sear engagement hook to hold onto the sear so it never fully reset + further torque and slide/frame movement getting the sear to drop = dead trigger? If that's the case, and I think it likely is, those MSP officers were saved from ADs only by Sig's shitty striker safety that doesn't work some percentage of the time.  Also, the fact that Sig engineers knew shaving the hooks off the sear/engagement surfaces would fix the MSP dead trigger issue tells me they know all of the above. They know how these guns are going off and aren't doing shit about it. Fucking scum company and people. |
|
Quoted: Yeah a cult runs Kahr. The question that I’ve never had answered by anyone is “why does that matter”? I can’t find allegations of any real wrong doing. I own two Kahr pistols. They’re very well made and have a very good double action trigger (or at least that’s what they call it given it is a striker design). It’s said that they have good customer service too. So, serious question, why does it matter that Moonies run Kahr? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Moonies????? Religious cult that runs Kahr. If you're looking to replace a SIG at this point, your logical options are Smith, Ruger, Glock, or Springfield (gross). Yeah a cult runs Kahr. The question that I’ve never had answered by anyone is “why does that matter”? I can’t find allegations of any real wrong doing. I own two Kahr pistols. They’re very well made and have a very good double action trigger (or at least that’s what they call it given it is a striker design). It’s said that they have good customer service too. So, serious question, why does it matter that Moonies run Kahr? It probably doesn't matter, people just like flexing and showing off "hey look at this one thing I know" like it's important. |
 Failed To Load Title |
|
Quoted: I still own two Sigs but won’t be buying any more https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/128204/IMG_5122_jpeg-3594582.JPG I was at Scheels yesterday picking up a couple things. I can't believe how many people are still buying SIG guns. I saw at least (5) guys walking out with SIG handgun boxes. Not sure who I am more disappointed in. The guys buying them or Scheels. What retard buys a SIG today? |
 SIG P320 An unfolding Disaster |
|
Quoted: I was at Scheels yesterday picking up a couple things. I can't believe how many people are still buying SIG guns. I saw at least (5) guys walking out with SIG handgun boxes. Not sure who I am more disappointed in. The guys buying them or Scheels. What retard buys a SIG today? Quoted: Quoted: I still own two Sigs but won’t be buying any more https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/128204/IMG_5122_jpeg-3594582.JPG I was at Scheels yesterday picking up a couple things. I can't believe how many people are still buying SIG guns. I saw at least (5) guys walking out with SIG handgun boxes. Not sure who I am more disappointed in. The guys buying them or Scheels. What retard buys a SIG today? Yeah I'm with you on that one. But the average American, including the average gun owner, doesn't know or care about the P320 issues. Most people walking into Scheels aren't big gun enthusiasts following this stuff. This is why those pieces of shit running Sig thought they could get away with this, if the problem stayed small enough. It's looking like they are going to get raped for taking that approach. The P365 size/class of pistol was a good innovation and idea to fill the CCW 9mm market. It's probably the top, or at least top 5 selling self defense pistols. It may be the main reason Sig can survive this. I would guess that's more likely the sales you are seeing. If Sig were smart, they would just replace any P320 with one of the larger P365 models, for free. That would be a good way to start digging out of this hole, before they get completely buried by the P320 issues. |
|
SIG P320 Un Commanded Discharge and its Repeatable Here you go BOOM! BANG! POW! |
|
This dude may have just done it Edit: if there was slight input from the holster due to the slim trigger guard and you bend your leg or put some kind of pressure on it…. Bang |
|
Quoted: Yeah I'm with you on that one. But the average American, including the average gun owner, doesn't know or care about the P320 issues. Most people walking into Scheels aren't big gun enthusiasts following this stuff. This is why those pieces of shit running Sig thought they could get away with this, if the problem stayed small enough. It's looking like they are going to get raped for taking that approach. The P365 size/class of pistol was a good innovation and idea to fill the CCW 9mm market. It's probably the top, or at least top 5 selling self defense pistols. It may be the main reason Sig can survive this. I would guess that's more likely the sales you are seeing. If Sig were smart, they would just replace any P320 with one of the larger P365 models, for free. That would be a good way to start digging out of this hole, before they get completely buried by the P320 issues. Sure are a lot of them in the EE! Accessories too. Do we think this will be a another instance of used cases at your LGS overflowing with 320s like they are/did with Glock 22/23 pistols for $299? Every gun store has used .40 cal Glocks they can't give away. Either every 320 gets recalled and destroyed or we start to see them at every pawn shop for $299 or less. The guys selling the 'legion' and x legion or super custom or whatever 320s for $1000+ are just hoping they get lucky I guess. Every EE ad I see for a 320 I just shake my head... |
|
Quoted: Sure are a lot of them in the EE! Accessories too. Do we think this will be a another instance of used cases at your LGS overflowing with 320s like they are/did with Glock 22/23 pistols for $299? Every gun store has used .40 cal Glocks they can't give away. Either every 320 gets recalled and destroyed or we start to see them at every pawn shop for $299 or less. The guys selling the 'legion' and x legion or super custom or whatever 320s for $1000+ are just hoping they get lucky I guess. Every EE ad I see for a 320 I just shake my head... Quoted: Quoted: Yeah I'm with you on that one. But the average American, including the average gun owner, doesn't know or care about the P320 issues. Most people walking into Scheels aren't big gun enthusiasts following this stuff. This is why those pieces of shit running Sig thought they could get away with this, if the problem stayed small enough. It's looking like they are going to get raped for taking that approach. The P365 size/class of pistol was a good innovation and idea to fill the CCW 9mm market. It's probably the top, or at least top 5 selling self defense pistols. It may be the main reason Sig can survive this. I would guess that's more likely the sales you are seeing. If Sig were smart, they would just replace any P320 with one of the larger P365 models, for free. That would be a good way to start digging out of this hole, before they get completely buried by the P320 issues. Sure are a lot of them in the EE! Accessories too. Do we think this will be a another instance of used cases at your LGS overflowing with 320s like they are/did with Glock 22/23 pistols for $299? Every gun store has used .40 cal Glocks they can't give away. Either every 320 gets recalled and destroyed or we start to see them at every pawn shop for $299 or less. The guys selling the 'legion' and x legion or super custom or whatever 320s for $1000+ are just hoping they get lucky I guess. Every EE ad I see for a 320 I just shake my head... I don't know why anyone who has heard of this would buy a P320 at any price. I assume anyone buying them doesn't know, which is shitty. P365 is a bit of a different conversation. |
|
Quoted: This dude may have just done it Edit: if there was slight input from the holster due to the slim trigger guard and you bend your leg or put some kind of pressure on it…. Bang Quoted: This dude may have just done it Edit: if there was slight input from the holster due to the slim trigger guard and you bend your leg or put some kind of pressure on it…. Bang Draw the gun, start to pull trigger, situation changes to no shoot, reholster…now movement between slide and frame might fire the gun? |
|
Quoted: Draw the gun, start to pull trigger, situation changes to no shoot, reholster…now movement between slide and frame might fire the gun? Quoted: Quoted: This dude may have just done it Edit: if there was slight input from the holster due to the slim trigger guard and you bend your leg or put some kind of pressure on it…. Bang Draw the gun, start to pull trigger, situation changes to no shoot, reholster…now movement between slide and frame might fire the gun? If the margin of error is a mm of trigger movement, in a polymer frame that flexes, full of Indian mim parts of questionable quality, fit and tolerances? Some of them went out with the wrong parts? Incorrect assembly (in the same manner as many pistols are correctly assembled) results in a more dangerous configuration? It seems to me that there's likely multiple ways that this can happen. Next up that dude should assemble the gun like a Glock, then press and tap the slide and see if it goes off. I'm guessing that's what's the most common thing that happens. Edit and I would guess that Sig is fully aware, and if/when push comes to shove, they will just say it was all user error from not assembling the firearm correctly per the manual. |
|
Quoted: We've all see it time and time again. It isn't just with guns. It is human nature. People invest their egos into whatever they buy/choose etc. Occasionally this costs people their lives. COVID taught me everything I needed to know about cognitive dissonance. |
|
Quoted: COVID taught me everything I needed to know about cognitive dissonance. Quoted: Quoted: We've all see it time and time again. It isn't just with guns. It is human nature. People invest their egos into whatever they buy/choose etc. Occasionally this costs people their lives. COVID taught me everything I needed to know about cognitive dissonance. Attached File |
|
Cue Sig response "we told you it couldnt happen without the trigger being pressed. The video shows the trigger being pressed and is thus, invalid. Your theory ends today" |
|
|
Well that explains this then  Sig 320 uncommanded discharge |
|
Quoted: Draw the gun, start to pull trigger, situation changes to no shoot, reholster…now movement between slide and frame might fire the gun? Quoted: Quoted: This dude may have just done it Edit: if there was slight input from the holster due to the slim trigger guard and you bend your leg or put some kind of pressure on it…. Bang Draw the gun, start to pull trigger, situation changes to no shoot, reholster…now movement between slide and frame might fire the gun? Hell, get a little debris in the trigger mechanism would probably do it. Knowing how well cops maintain their gear, absolutely possible. |
|
Quoted: I don't know why anyone who has heard of this would buy a P320 at any price. I assume anyone buying them doesn't know, which is shitty. P365 is a bit of a different conversation. If I came across an M17 for dirt cheap I would probably buy it for the collection, but would never carry it. |
|
Quoted: 100 pages! Of F sig! Wow. Yeah.....I imagine it would have been like this with Glock in the 80s had the internet been around. It was the same sentiment in every gun shop back then. Most of those that will comment about this fact weren't even alive then but they will be along shortly to tell me how it is different. I know 2 cops that got shot in 91 when the local PD switched to Glocks, Glock Leg was a real thing and a lot of experts said it was an unsafe pistol. I'm not defending Sig nor am I condeming them either. Until something is PROVEN to be wrong and can be repeated without altering the FCU or milling away a portion of the slide I say it's all speculation. But will concede one thing around all of this, perception is reality and Sig has a REAL PROBLEM.... ETA the video of the off duty cop that lost his nut a couple of weeks ago was the most compelling video I've seen. That has me questioning the safety of the 320. I've regulated mine to home and range only even though I carried it on the job for 8 years and seen them take some serious abuse with out incident. |
|
Quoted: Yeah.....I imagine it would have been like this with Glock in the 80s had the internet been around. It was the same sentiment in every gun shop back then. Most of those that will comment about this fact weren't even alive then but they will be along shortly to tell me how it is different. I know 2 cops that got shot in 91 when the local PD switched to Glocks, Glock Leg was a real thing and a lot of experts said it was an unsafe pistol. I'm not defending Sig nor am I condeming them either. Until something is PROVEN to be wrong and can be repeated without altering the FCU or milling away a portion of the slide I say everything it's all speculation. But will concede one thing around all of this, perception is reality and Sig has a REAL PROBLEM.... Quoted: Quoted: 100 pages! Of F sig! Wow. Yeah.....I imagine it would have been like this with Glock in the 80s had the internet been around. It was the same sentiment in every gun shop back then. Most of those that will comment about this fact weren't even alive then but they will be along shortly to tell me how it is different. I know 2 cops that got shot in 91 when the local PD switched to Glocks, Glock Leg was a real thing and a lot of experts said it was an unsafe pistol. I'm not defending Sig nor am I condeming them either. Until something is PROVEN to be wrong and can be repeated without altering the FCU or milling away a portion of the slide I say everything it's all speculation. But will concede one thing around all of this, perception is reality and Sig has a REAL PROBLEM.... Transitional period, training deficiencies, familiarity The 90’s were a transitional period for holsters. Leather was dominant in both law enforcement and civilian worlds. With use, leather was prone to wear and “dog-ear”, i.e., a corner or area would fold inwards. Even better brands such as Bianchi and Galco were not immune to this condition. I tend to believe related hardware had a lot to do with many incidences as much as training failed to adjust to proper handling a firearm utilizing a lighter trigger. This isn’t to say revolvers did not have their fair share of ND/AD events, but their (generally) heavier triggers and longer established revolver-centric training didn’t translate from one platform to the other. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 100 of 142)
Join the Community
Your next conversation starts here.
Create your free account to join discussions, share your experience, save topics, and connect with the AR15.COM community.
- Join discussions
- Follow topics and replies
- Connect with fellow enthusiasts
Already a member? Sign in
Stay informed by subscribing to our Newsletter