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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:47:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know what that means. How many shots can you get off in 2.5 seconds? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Alright you shotgunning homos. How many shots can you get off in 2.5 seconds, and how many home invaders do you anticipate? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1748304__ARCHIVED_THREAD____The_Official_Drill_of_the_Week_2016_Edition_All_drills_are_up_for_the_year_.html&page=10 BSAT Shotgun Standards (Slugs) 1- Low Ready, 1 shot 1 target 7 yards 0.75 2- Low Ready, 2 shots 1 target 7 yards 1.41 (.88 first shot) 3- Low Ready, 5 body shots, 1 head shot 1 target 7 yards 3.61 2c (0.88, 1.41, 1.86, 2.29, 2.73, 3.61) 4- Low Ready, 2 shots per target 2 targets 7 yards 2.01 1c 1d (0.65, 1.13, 1.58, 2.01) 5- Low Ready, 1 shot Reload 1 shot 1 target 7 yards 3.86 (0.74, 3.86, RL 3.12) 6- Low Ready, 2 shots Reload 2 shots 2 targets 7 yards 7.58 1b 1d (0.69, 1.22) RL 5.91 (7.13, 7.58) 7- Low Ready Standing-Kneeling 1 shot 1 target 25 yards 2.56 Total Time: 21.78 Points: 86/100 HF: 3.95 COLD RUN 1.) 0.69 2.) 1.43 (0.75 first shot) 1c 3.) 3.2 (0.71, 1.17, 1.69, 2.12, 2.54, 3.2) 4.) 2.12 (0.62, 1.08, 1.7 2.12) 1c 1d 5.) 4.03 (0.66 [RL 3.32] 4.03) 1c 6.) 8.62 (0.67, 1.22 [RL 6.79] 8.01, 8.62) 1c 7.) 2.48 Total Time: 22.57 Points: 89/100 HF: 3.943 Now for pure speed using birdshot so all just counted as "A's". 1.) 0.62 2.) 0.93 (0.6 first shot) 3.) 4.01 (0.49, 0.82, 1.66, 2.07, 2.43, 4.01) 4.) 2.32 (1.06, 1.46, 1.93, 2.32) 5.) 3.29 (0.76 [RL 2.53] 3.29) 6.) 7.93 (0.63, 1.02 [RL 5.75] 6.77, 7.93) 7.) 1.92 Total Time: 21.02 Points: 100 (for HF purposes)** HF: 4.757 1.) 0.53 2.) 0.99 (0.56 first shot) 3.) 3.42 (0.56, 1.34, 1.69, 2.0, 2.7, 3.42) 4.) 1.73 (0.58, 0.94, 1.36, 1.73) 5.) 3.7 (0.55 [RL 3.15] 3.7) 6.) 7.61 (0.55, 0.91 [RL 6.33] 7.24, 7.61) 7.) 2.27 Total Time: 20.25 Points: 100 ** HF: 4.9382 1.) 0.53 2.) 0.9 (0.6 first shot) 3.) 3.1 (0.58, 0.89, 1.52, 1.9, 2.54, 3.1) 4.) 1.98 (0.6, 0.9, 1.64, 1.98) 5.) 3.33 (0.55 [RL 2.78] 3.33) 6.) 8.07 (0.57, 0.9 [RL 6.81] 7.71, 8.07) 7.) 2.18 Total Time: 20.09 Points: 100** HF: 4.9776 My run/time: 1.) 0.55 2.) 0.95 3.) 3.37 4.) 1.91 5.) 2.53 6.) 5.45 (here you can see 3 pieces of tape fall off the targets) 7.) 2.18 Misses: 1c 1b Total Points: 96 Total Time: 16.94 Hit Factor: 5.667 I don't know what that means. How many shots can you get off in 2.5 seconds? But, we have been told (in connection with the aforementioned Batshit Scenario, no less) that simply hosing off a whole tube as fast as possible in the general direction of a mob approaching your home is essentially the same as setting of a claymore, it's just a matter of degree. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:48:17 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not why people chose rifles over shotguns. In general, 556 and 00 buck will penetrate roughly equal amounts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When I read these threads I often wonder how many people here have actually seen someone who has been shot, much less with various shotgun loads. Just for fun, do a google image search for buckshot wounds and you'll get an idea what a load of buckshot will do. I'm not saying it's the best/ideal load, I don't think there really is a "best" load, they're all compromises in some way, but at the distances within a house it's certainly not "ineffective", not that I would want to be downrange any round for that matter.  That's not why people chose rifles over shotguns. In general, 556 and 00 buck will penetrate roughly equal amounts. According to what tests? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:49:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm taking volunteers to absorb test #4 buckshot at the 3 to 7 yards ranges I'm likely to be using it in this house. Completely safe as those puny pellets aren't going to hurt you. They will most likely bounce right off, if not completely deflected before they reach you by your badass aura. ARFcom says so. Line forms over there . . . 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:49:10 AM EDT
[#4]
00 buck
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:50:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Being I can't have an AR for defense here I keep a Mossberg 590 loaded with #7.5 birdshot... it'll fuck up soft flesh without punching through walls to my neighbors. Yep, it'll make a nasty flesh wound. It also won't come anywhere near their CNS. 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:50:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to what tests? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When I read these threads I often wonder how many people here have actually seen someone who has been shot, much less with various shotgun loads. Just for fun, do a google image search for buckshot wounds and you'll get an idea what a load of buckshot will do. I'm not saying it's the best/ideal load, I don't think there really is a "best" load, they're all compromises in some way, but at the distances within a house it's certainly not "ineffective", not that I would want to be downrange any round for that matter. That's not why people chose rifles over shotguns. In general, 556 and 00 buck will penetrate roughly equal amounts. According to what tests? Are you new here? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:51:39 AM EDT
[#7]
Not my primary or secondary HD weapon, but I do have a Benelli M3 loaded with Winchester Ranger low recoil 00 buck. 1 in the chamber, 1 "on the carrier," and 7 in the tube.
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:51:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for breaking it down for me ... im to to tu tju stoo stoo stoopid. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What? And "wall of shotgun blast" is as dumb a phrase as the whole "meat from bone", or "all a matter of degree", or the perennial favorite, "screaming fucking nightmare". There, I broke it down, Barney simple, for you. Thanks for breaking it down for me ... im to to tu tju stoo stoo stoopid. You DID, after all, use one of those classic, deceptive arguments, claiming that people in these discussions claim that shotguns are totally ineffective, so I don't even feel the remotest bit bad about mocking you. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:52:15 AM EDT
[#9]
I prefer 12 GA #4 Buck
My LE Dept used this load, seemed to work just fine. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:52:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you new here? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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When I read these threads I often wonder how many people here have actually seen someone who has been shot, much less with various shotgun loads. Just for fun, do a google image search for buckshot wounds and you'll get an idea what a load of buckshot will do. I'm not saying it's the best/ideal load, I don't think there really is a "best" load, they're all compromises in some way, but at the distances within a house it's certainly not "ineffective", not that I would want to be downrange any round for that matter. That's not why people chose rifles over shotguns. In general, 556 and 00 buck will penetrate roughly equal amounts. According to what tests? Are you new here? New to shotgun threads, yeah. I tend to avoid them to save my last shred of hope for humanity. All is lost now. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:53:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hevi-shot #4 Hevi-shot #4 Hornady 3" Heavy Magnum Turkey #5 Hornady 3" Heavy Magnum Turkey #5 Hornady 3" Heavy Magnum Turkey #5 The Mossberg is the bedroom defense gun for the lady if shit goes south. Various other guns are used as HD guns. Are you expecting an assault from turkeys or something? 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:53:39 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New to shotgun threads, yeah. I tend to avoid them to save my last shred of hope for humanity. All is lost now. 
The answers you seek. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:53:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I personally use Buck'n'Ball. 1 - .65 cal round ball and 6 - #1 Buckshot. I have been considering switching to #4 buckshot. I have read that it offers the best balance of penetration and energy transfer. I am always surprised at how many folks recommend #4 buck shot, when #4 buck is the only buckshot that will sometimes fail to reach the minimum penetration standard. #1 buck is "best". And I am also surprised that we have a link on this forum that answers all these questions, but it gets ignored. Defensive Shotgun Ammo - Frequently Asked Questions |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:55:01 AM EDT
[#14]
Winchester Longbeard XR 3" #5.
Of course I plan to use my shotgun for HD only in the event a flock of zombie turkeys attack. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:56:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is your house prone to attack by birds? When I was assigned as #2 in an entry I carried a 14" 870, I've seen what a load of 00 buck does. My HD long gun is an 11-87P loaded up with 00 buck. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:56:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistorySlugs kill pigs. People breaking into houses are like pigs. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:57:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dual welding? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 6 rounds of Federal 000 in the old Secret Service 14" 870, because it patterns beautifully and very consistently. But any one of several rifles is going to come out of the safe first if things have gone sideways. Dual welding? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:58:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're welcome. You DID, after all, use one of those classic, deceptive arguments, claiming that people in these discussions claim that shotguns are totally ineffective, so I don't even feel the remotest bit bad about mocking you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What? And "wall of shotgun blast" is as dumb a phrase as the whole "meat from bone", or "all a matter of degree", or the perennial favorite, "screaming fucking nightmare". There, I broke it down, Barney simple, for you. Thanks for breaking it down for me ... im to to tu tju stoo stoo stoopid. You DID, after all, use one of those classic, deceptive arguments, claiming that people in these discussions claim that shotguns are totally ineffective, so I don't even feel the remotest bit bad about mocking you. This thread is a joke isn't it or are you serious? I think it's funny... But then I'm not quite like you guys... |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:58:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Federal low recoil 9 pellet buck with the flite control wad. This. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:58:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you expecting an assault from turkeys or something? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hevi-shot #4 Hevi-shot #4 Hornady 3" Heavy Magnum Turkey #5 Hornady 3" Heavy Magnum Turkey #5 Hornady 3" Heavy Magnum Turkey #5 The Mossberg is the bedroom defense gun for the lady if shit goes south. Various other guns are used as HD guns. Are you expecting an assault from turkeys or something? Hey, zombie turkeys are a real concern. There are even targets for training. Just one more threat to be ready for. 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 10:59:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arc and tig. Are you mother fucking man enough? I hold my rods with my elephant trunk dick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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6 rounds of Federal 000 in the old Secret Service 14" 870, because it patterns beautifully and very consistently. But any one of several rifles is going to come out of the safe first if things have gone sideways. Dual welding? 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:00:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I was assigned as #2 in an entry I carried a 14" 870, I've seen what a load of 00 buck does. My HD long gun is an 11-87P loaded up with 00 buck. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is your house prone to attack by birds? When I was assigned as #2 in an entry I carried a 14" 870, I've seen what a load of 00 buck does. My HD long gun is an 11-87P loaded up with 00 buck. It's not the buckshot that's the "weak point" of the system... it's the 19th-century cartridge that contains it, and the compromises one has to live with because of said cartridge. Very few folks lose fights because they didn't hit hard enough. A lot more lose them because they didn't hit fast enough, or enough times, or in a good enough spot. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:02:43 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to what tests? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
When I read these threads I often wonder how many people here have actually seen someone who has been shot, much less with various shotgun loads. Just for fun, do a google image search for buckshot wounds and you'll get an idea what a load of buckshot will do. I'm not saying it's the best/ideal load, I don't think there really is a "best" load, they're all compromises in some way, but at the distances within a house it's certainly not "ineffective", not that I would want to be downrange any round for that matter. That's not why people chose rifles over shotguns. In general, 556 and 00 buck will penetrate roughly equal amounts. According to what tests? O_P |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:03:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know what that means. How many shots can you get off in 2.5 seconds? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Alright you shotgunning homos. How many shots can you get off in 2.5 seconds, and how many home invaders do you anticipate? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1748304__ARCHIVED_THREAD____The_Official_Drill_of_the_Week_2016_Edition_All_drills_are_up_for_the_year_.html&page=10 BSAT Shotgun Standards (Slugs) 1- Low Ready, 1 shot 1 target 7 yards 0.75 2- Low Ready, 2 shots 1 target 7 yards 1.41 (.88 first shot) 3- Low Ready, 5 body shots, 1 head shot 1 target 7 yards 3.61 2c (0.88, 1.41, 1.86, 2.29, 2.73, 3.61) 4- Low Ready, 2 shots per target 2 targets 7 yards 2.01 1c 1d (0.65, 1.13, 1.58, 2.01) 5- Low Ready, 1 shot Reload 1 shot 1 target 7 yards 3.86 (0.74, 3.86, RL 3.12) 6- Low Ready, 2 shots Reload 2 shots 2 targets 7 yards 7.58 1b 1d (0.69, 1.22) RL 5.91 (7.13, 7.58) 7- Low Ready Standing-Kneeling 1 shot 1 target 25 yards 2.56 Total Time: 21.78 Points: 86/100 HF: 3.95 COLD RUN 1.) 0.69 2.) 1.43 (0.75 first shot) 1c 3.) 3.2 (0.71, 1.17, 1.69, 2.12, 2.54, 3.2) 4.) 2.12 (0.62, 1.08, 1.7 2.12) 1c 1d 5.) 4.03 (0.66 [RL 3.32] 4.03) 1c 6.) 8.62 (0.67, 1.22 [RL 6.79] 8.01, 8.62) 1c 7.) 2.48 Total Time: 22.57 Points: 89/100 HF: 3.943 Now for pure speed using birdshot so all just counted as "A's". 1.) 0.62 2.) 0.93 (0.6 first shot) 3.) 4.01 (0.49, 0.82, 1.66, 2.07, 2.43, 4.01) 4.) 2.32 (1.06, 1.46, 1.93, 2.32) 5.) 3.29 (0.76 [RL 2.53] 3.29) 6.) 7.93 (0.63, 1.02 [RL 5.75] 6.77, 7.93) 7.) 1.92 Total Time: 21.02 Points: 100 (for HF purposes)** HF: 4.757 1.) 0.53 2.) 0.99 (0.56 first shot) 3.) 3.42 (0.56, 1.34, 1.69, 2.0, 2.7, 3.42) 4.) 1.73 (0.58, 0.94, 1.36, 1.73) 5.) 3.7 (0.55 [RL 3.15] 3.7) 6.) 7.61 (0.55, 0.91 [RL 6.33] 7.24, 7.61) 7.) 2.27 Total Time: 20.25 Points: 100 ** HF: 4.9382 1.) 0.53 2.) 0.9 (0.6 first shot) 3.) 3.1 (0.58, 0.89, 1.52, 1.9, 2.54, 3.1) 4.) 1.98 (0.6, 0.9, 1.64, 1.98) 5.) 3.33 (0.55 [RL 2.78] 3.33) 6.) 8.07 (0.57, 0.9 [RL 6.81] 7.71, 8.07) 7.) 2.18 Total Time: 20.09 Points: 100** HF: 4.9776 My run/time: 1.) 0.55 2.) 0.95 3.) 3.37 4.) 1.91 5.) 2.53 6.) 5.45 (here you can see 3 pieces of tape fall off the targets) 7.) 2.18 Misses: 1c 1b Total Points: 96 Total Time: 16.94 Hit Factor: 5.667 I don't know what that means. How many shots can you get off in 2.5 seconds? It means you're either lazy or you're reading comprehension is somewhat poor. And I know you're reading comprehension isn't poor. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:03:15 AM EDT
[#25]
A double in less than 2.5 seconds
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:04:26 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is a joke isn't it or are you serious? I think it's funny... But then I'm not quite like you guys... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That bit in red. No one says that, in these threads. And "wall of shotgun blast" is as dumb a phrase as the whole "meat from bone", or "all a matter of degree", or the perennial favorite, "screaming fucking nightmare". There, I broke it down, Barney simple, for you. Thanks for breaking it down for me ... im to to tu tju stoo stoo stoopid. You DID, after all, use one of those classic, deceptive arguments, claiming that people in these discussions claim that shotguns are totally ineffective, so I don't even feel the remotest bit bad about mocking you. This thread is a joke isn't it or are you serious? I think it's funny... But then I'm not quite like you guys... As for shotguns being sub-optimal in the HD role, and inferior to a good carbine (particularly an AR), of course we're serious. We also speak about this serious topic with a joking mein, because we're fun like that. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:04:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey, zombie turkeys are a real concern. There are even targets for training. Just one more threat to be ready for. http://www.renegadetargets.com/Images/Targets/Medium/E2_Toby.gif Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Hevi-shot #4 Hevi-shot #4 Hornady 3" Heavy Magnum Turkey #5 Hornady 3" Heavy Magnum Turkey #5 Hornady 3" Heavy Magnum Turkey #5 The Mossberg is the bedroom defense gun for the lady if shit goes south. Various other guns are used as HD guns. Are you expecting an assault from turkeys or something? Hey, zombie turkeys are a real concern. There are even targets for training. Just one more threat to be ready for. http://www.renegadetargets.com/Images/Targets/Medium/E2_Toby.gif 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:05:35 AM EDT
[#28]
I use bird shot.
1 oz to the pellet bird shot. It made for really big birds. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:07:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Lots of #4 buck, which has questionable penetration. My shotgun loads of choice is 00 low recoil. I use the Winchester brand mostly, because I bought a bunch cheap but it also patterns best of those tested in my shotgun.
I understand #1 buck is the best performing in terms of terminal ballistics, but I haven't seen any of that stuff in years. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:07:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1748304__ARCHIVED_THREAD____The_Official_Drill_of_the_Week_2016_Edition_All_drills_are_up_for_the_year_.html&page=10 BSAT Shotgun Standards (Slugs) 1- Low Ready, 1 shot 1 target 7 yards 0.75 2- Low Ready, 2 shots 1 target 7 yards 1.41 (.88 first shot) 3- Low Ready, 5 body shots, 1 head shot 1 target 7 yards 3.61 2c (0.88, 1.41, 1.86, 2.29, 2.73, 3.61) 4- Low Ready, 2 shots per target 2 targets 7 yards 2.01 1c 1d (0.65, 1.13, 1.58, 2.01) 5- Low Ready, 1 shot Reload 1 shot 1 target 7 yards 3.86 (0.74, 3.86, RL 3.12) 6- Low Ready, 2 shots Reload 2 shots 2 targets 7 yards 7.58 1b 1d (0.69, 1.22) RL 5.91 (7.13, 7.58) 7- Low Ready Standing-Kneeling 1 shot 1 target 25 yards 2.56 Total Time: 21.78 Points: 86/100 HF: 3.95 COLD RUN 1.) 0.69 2.) 1.43 (0.75 first shot) 1c 3.) 3.2 (0.71, 1.17, 1.69, 2.12, 2.54, 3.2) 4.) 2.12 (0.62, 1.08, 1.7 2.12) 1c 1d 5.) 4.03 (0.66 [RL 3.32] 4.03) 1c 6.) 8.62 (0.67, 1.22 [RL 6.79] 8.01, 8.62) 1c 7.) 2.48 Total Time: 22.57 Points: 89/100 HF: 3.943 Now for pure speed using birdshot so all just counted as "A's". 1.) 0.62 2.) 0.93 (0.6 first shot) 3.) 4.01 (0.49, 0.82, 1.66, 2.07, 2.43, 4.01) 4.) 2.32 (1.06, 1.46, 1.93, 2.32) 5.) 3.29 (0.76 [RL 2.53] 3.29) 6.) 7.93 (0.63, 1.02 [RL 5.75] 6.77, 7.93) 7.) 1.92 Total Time: 21.02 Points: 100 (for HF purposes)** HF: 4.757 1.) 0.53 2.) 0.99 (0.56 first shot) 3.) 3.42 (0.56, 1.34, 1.69, 2.0, 2.7, 3.42) 4.) 1.73 (0.58, 0.94, 1.36, 1.73) 5.) 3.7 (0.55 [RL 3.15] 3.7) 6.) 7.61 (0.55, 0.91 [RL 6.33] 7.24, 7.61) 7.) 2.27 Total Time: 20.25 Points: 100 ** HF: 4.9382 1.) 0.53 2.) 0.9 (0.6 first shot) 3.) 3.1 (0.58, 0.89, 1.52, 1.9, 2.54, 3.1) 4.) 1.98 (0.6, 0.9, 1.64, 1.98) 5.) 3.33 (0.55 [RL 2.78] 3.33) 6.) 8.07 (0.57, 0.9 [RL 6.81] 7.71, 8.07) 7.) 2.18 Total Time: 20.09 Points: 100** HF: 4.9776 My run/time: 1.) 0.55 2.) 0.95 3.) 3.37 4.) 1.91 5.) 2.53 6.) 5.45 (here you can see 3 pieces of tape fall off the targets) 7.) 2.18 Misses: 1c 1b Total Points: 96 Total Time: 16.94 Hit Factor: 5.667 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Alright you shotgunning homos. How many shots can you get off in 2.5 seconds, and how many home invaders do you anticipate? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1748304__ARCHIVED_THREAD____The_Official_Drill_of_the_Week_2016_Edition_All_drills_are_up_for_the_year_.html&page=10 BSAT Shotgun Standards (Slugs) 1- Low Ready, 1 shot 1 target 7 yards 0.75 2- Low Ready, 2 shots 1 target 7 yards 1.41 (.88 first shot) 3- Low Ready, 5 body shots, 1 head shot 1 target 7 yards 3.61 2c (0.88, 1.41, 1.86, 2.29, 2.73, 3.61) 4- Low Ready, 2 shots per target 2 targets 7 yards 2.01 1c 1d (0.65, 1.13, 1.58, 2.01) 5- Low Ready, 1 shot Reload 1 shot 1 target 7 yards 3.86 (0.74, 3.86, RL 3.12) 6- Low Ready, 2 shots Reload 2 shots 2 targets 7 yards 7.58 1b 1d (0.69, 1.22) RL 5.91 (7.13, 7.58) 7- Low Ready Standing-Kneeling 1 shot 1 target 25 yards 2.56 Total Time: 21.78 Points: 86/100 HF: 3.95 COLD RUN 1.) 0.69 2.) 1.43 (0.75 first shot) 1c 3.) 3.2 (0.71, 1.17, 1.69, 2.12, 2.54, 3.2) 4.) 2.12 (0.62, 1.08, 1.7 2.12) 1c 1d 5.) 4.03 (0.66 [RL 3.32] 4.03) 1c 6.) 8.62 (0.67, 1.22 [RL 6.79] 8.01, 8.62) 1c 7.) 2.48 Total Time: 22.57 Points: 89/100 HF: 3.943 Now for pure speed using birdshot so all just counted as "A's". 1.) 0.62 2.) 0.93 (0.6 first shot) 3.) 4.01 (0.49, 0.82, 1.66, 2.07, 2.43, 4.01) 4.) 2.32 (1.06, 1.46, 1.93, 2.32) 5.) 3.29 (0.76 [RL 2.53] 3.29) 6.) 7.93 (0.63, 1.02 [RL 5.75] 6.77, 7.93) 7.) 1.92 Total Time: 21.02 Points: 100 (for HF purposes)** HF: 4.757 1.) 0.53 2.) 0.99 (0.56 first shot) 3.) 3.42 (0.56, 1.34, 1.69, 2.0, 2.7, 3.42) 4.) 1.73 (0.58, 0.94, 1.36, 1.73) 5.) 3.7 (0.55 [RL 3.15] 3.7) 6.) 7.61 (0.55, 0.91 [RL 6.33] 7.24, 7.61) 7.) 2.27 Total Time: 20.25 Points: 100 ** HF: 4.9382 1.) 0.53 2.) 0.9 (0.6 first shot) 3.) 3.1 (0.58, 0.89, 1.52, 1.9, 2.54, 3.1) 4.) 1.98 (0.6, 0.9, 1.64, 1.98) 5.) 3.33 (0.55 [RL 2.78] 3.33) 6.) 8.07 (0.57, 0.9 [RL 6.81] 7.71, 8.07) 7.) 2.18 Total Time: 20.09 Points: 100** HF: 4.9776 My run/time: 1.) 0.55 2.) 0.95 3.) 3.37 4.) 1.91 5.) 2.53 6.) 5.45 (here you can see 3 pieces of tape fall off the targets) 7.) 2.18 Misses: 1c 1b Total Points: 96 Total Time: 16.94 Hit Factor: 5.667 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:09:22 AM EDT
[#31]
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It means you're either lazy or you're reading comprehension is somewhat poor. And I know you're reading comprehension isn't poor. Is it lazy if I don't want to read all of that for the answer? I think I found this. 0.88, 1.41, 1.86, 2.29 - so 4 shots. How many shots does the gun have? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:10:08 AM EDT
[#32]
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Alright you shotgunning homos. How many shots can you get off in 2.5 seconds, and how many home invaders do you anticipate? Saturday I had no trouble engaging 3 consecutive steel silhouette targets at 15 yards in under 2.5 seconds with my 1301 with aimed fire. I don't anticipate more than 5 home invaders. If there are more, I doubt they will stick around once I've killed the first five. With my 870 I might be a bit slower. ...but running the shotgun fast is all about technique. Get the push-pull going and it really limits recoil and lets you transition between targets well. With the 1301 it's easy mode when you get push-pull working. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:11:22 AM EDT
[#33]
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But then I'm not quite like you guys... 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:11:40 AM EDT
[#34]
Birdshot is the best!
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:12:17 AM EDT
[#35]
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Saturday I had no trouble engaging 3 consecutive steel silhouette targets at 15 yards in under 2.5 seconds with my 1301. I don't anticipate more than 5 home invaders. If there are more, I doubt they will stick around once I've killed the first five. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Alright you shotgunning homos. How many shots can you get off in 2.5 seconds, and how many home invaders do you anticipate? Saturday I had no trouble engaging 3 consecutive steel silhouette targets at 15 yards in under 2.5 seconds with my 1301. I don't anticipate more than 5 home invaders. If there are more, I doubt they will stick around once I've killed the first five. Hush you. I'm picking on the noobs. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:12:51 AM EDT
[#36]
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We know. We try to keep things simple to understand, even for those who are "special", but sometimes I know we go a bit over your heads. As for shotguns being sub-optimal in the HD role, and inferior to a good carbine (particularly an AR), of course we're serious. We also speak about this serious topic with a joking mein, because we're fun like that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That bit in red. No one says that, in these threads. And "wall of shotgun blast" is as dumb a phrase as the whole "meat from bone", or "all a matter of degree", or the perennial favorite, "screaming fucking nightmare". There, I broke it down, Barney simple, for you. Thanks for breaking it down for me ... im to to tu tju stoo stoo stoopid. You DID, after all, use one of those classic, deceptive arguments, claiming that people in these discussions claim that shotguns are totally ineffective, so I don't even feel the remotest bit bad about mocking you. This thread is a joke isn't it or are you serious? I think it's funny... But then I'm not quite like you guys... As for shotguns being sub-optimal in the HD role, and inferior to a good carbine (particularly an AR), of course we're serious. We also speak about this serious topic with a joking mein, because we're fun like that. You are serious! Holy shit! |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:15:57 AM EDT
[#37]
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When I read these threads I often wonder how many people here have actually seen someone who has been shot, much less with various shotgun loads. Just for fun, do a google image search for buckshot wounds and you'll get an idea what a load of buckshot will do. I'm not saying it's the best/ideal load, I don't think there really is a "best" load, they're all compromises in some way, but at the distances within a house it's certainly not "ineffective", not that I would want to be downrange any round for that matter. That's not why people chose rifles over shotguns. In general, 556 and 00 buck will penetrate roughly equal amounts. According to what tests? O_P I thought he found that 5.56 started tumbling through the sheetrock after a couple walls where the pistol and 00 kept going? Am I remembering that wrong? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:17:41 AM EDT
[#38]
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Hush you. I'm picking on the noobs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Alright you shotgunning homos. How many shots can you get off in 2.5 seconds, and how many home invaders do you anticipate? Saturday I had no trouble engaging 3 consecutive steel silhouette targets at 15 yards in under 2.5 seconds with my 1301. I don't anticipate more than 5 home invaders. If there are more, I doubt they will stick around once I've killed the first five. Hush you. I'm picking on the noobs. Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:19:25 AM EDT
[#39]
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Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:19:50 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are serious! Holy shit! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You DID, after all, use one of those classic, deceptive arguments, claiming that people in these discussions claim that shotguns are totally ineffective, so I don't even feel the remotest bit bad about mocking you. This thread is a joke isn't it or are you serious? I think it's funny... But then I'm not quite like you guys... As for shotguns being sub-optimal in the HD role, and inferior to a good carbine (particularly an AR), of course we're serious. We also speak about this serious topic with a joking mein, because we're fun like that. You are serious! Holy shit! ETA: I should clarify, because of your demonstrated reading comprehension, why would you think we're not serious about that? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:20:39 AM EDT
[#41]
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Hush you. I'm picking on the noobs. 
Behold the magnificence of my 1301 and despair, infidel! So as to the TAP comment I made earlier: 
Most of the pellets that you see missing the bad guy on that target came from the TAP round. The ones inside the bad guy came from the Fiocci buckshot, which performed far better than I had imagined it would. Shooting was done at 25 yards, and point of aim was the button on Jihad Johnny's shirt just above the AK. Big holes are from the slugs. The bulk 3gun slugs I bought shoot just a tad high at 25. I can live with that. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:20:56 AM EDT
[#42]
In this thread we find out who is terrified of a shotgun.
I keep three ready in different locations in the house. I don't care about the walls, neighbors, magazine capacity etc, and can make followup shots just fine. I've been a shotgun instructor since the early 90's and have seen firsthand what buckshot does to people. I'm sold. 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:21:24 AM EDT
[#43]
I use .410 birdshot out of my Taurus judge. i dont even have to aim, just point it down the hallway and it will hit everything
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:21:28 AM EDT
[#44]
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I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:22:46 AM EDT
[#45]
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I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) Is "I just like them and shoot them VERY well" not a valid reason? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:23:26 AM EDT
[#46]
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Why not an automatic shotty? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Depending on the laws in your area a shotgun maybe your best option. When guns using standard size detachable mags aren't an option a pump action is likely your most viable alternative. Why not an automatic shotty? Places that outlaw things like AR's seem more likely to place restrictions on semi auto shotguns as well. But if there aren't local laws restricting semi auto shotguns and you have a gun and ammo combination that works then it's probably a fine option. I'm partial to pump actions because they generally work well with any type of shell you want to fire and there usually aren't many laws that apply to manually operated guns. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:23:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Reduced recoil flight control 1B
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:23:50 AM EDT
[#48]
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In this thread we find out who is terrified of a shotgun.
I keep three ready in different locations in the house. I don't care about the walls, neighbors, magazine capacity etc, and can make followup shots just fine. I've been a shotgun instructor since the early 90's and have seen firsthand what buckshot does to people. I'm sold. I know a number of folks who have used a shotgun in LE work, and to a man they all lauded its ability to handle a problem. To quote Tom Givens "When you shoot someone with a shotgun, they stay shot." |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:24:45 AM EDT
[#49]
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Is it lazy if I don't want to read all of that for the answer? I think I found this. 0.88, 1.41, 1.86, 2.29 - so 4 shots. How many shots does the gun have? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It means you're either lazy or you're reading comprehension is somewhat poor. And I know you're reading comprehension isn't poor. Is it lazy if I don't want to read all of that for the answer? I think I found this. 0.88, 1.41, 1.86, 2.29 - so 4 shots. How many shots does the gun have? 7+1 21 on and in the gun total. The BSAT doesn't have any Bill Drill like iteration. Closest is #3 which is the 5 body + 1 to the head. Which is typically in the mid 3 second range. With splits around 0.5 seconds. #4 is 2 shots on 2 targets. 4 shots total. Right around 2 seconds. Sometimes under 2 seconds always under 2.5 seconds. ETA: for the record I keep a loaded shotgun in the safe, next to my ready AR15... I simply know exactly what I'm capable of with ALL my guns
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:25:47 AM EDT
[#50]
8+1 dragon's breath... I can unload the whole tube in .87 seconds with my Benelli M4.
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