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Posted: 2/17/2022 9:41:26 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This topic has degraded into the most far fetched nonsense ever. |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 9:46:24 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a lot of words to say you can't come up with a single time it's ever happened. Even though, fun topic of discussion. Say a guy justifiably shoots a home intruder and then in the 20 minutes it takes the cops to get there, he takes the suppressor, optics, lights, IR, sling, etc off his rifle. Firstly, is the investigation team even going to look at that? Second, how would they even go about collecting the evidence to prove that? And then in an alternate scenario, what if the above guy puts his $6k rifle back in the safe and gets out a $300 BCA junker that's been sitting in his safe uncleaned since the last range day. Same questions- are they even going to care enough to look into it in a justified home defense shooting, and then are they even going to be able to come up with enough evidence to charge the guy, let alone get a jury conviction? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Point me to one single example anyone has ever even been charged with this, let alone being convicted. I'll wait. @JohnAdamsIII People tamper with gun evidence all the time and catch a charge for it. It's pretty common in fact for gangbanger murders. I've seen a tampering charge upheld where the guy rinsed his SKS off in the shower. (Blood and brain matter on the barrel and stock) Obviously we were talking about self defense or home defense shootings. Most people aren't stupid enough to tamper with key evidence in justifiable homicide shootings. That's a lot of words to say you can't come up with a single time it's ever happened. Even though, fun topic of discussion. Say a guy justifiably shoots a home intruder and then in the 20 minutes it takes the cops to get there, he takes the suppressor, optics, lights, IR, sling, etc off his rifle. Firstly, is the investigation team even going to look at that? Second, how would they even go about collecting the evidence to prove that? And then in an alternate scenario, what if the above guy puts his $6k rifle back in the safe and gets out a $300 BCA junker that's been sitting in his safe uncleaned since the last range day. Same questions- are they even going to care enough to look into it in a justified home defense shooting, and then are they even going to be able to come up with enough evidence to charge the guy, let alone get a jury conviction? If you think they don't check ballistics then I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you. Not to mention once you get caught in a lie, don't expect them to believe you on anything. |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 10:35:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a lot of words to say you can't come up with a single time it's ever happened. Even though, fun topic of discussion. Say a guy justifiably shoots a home intruder and then in the 20 minutes it takes the cops to get there, he takes the suppressor, optics, lights, IR, sling, etc off his rifle. Firstly, is the investigation team even going to look at that? Second, how would they even go about collecting the evidence to prove that? And then in an alternate scenario, what if the above guy puts his $6k rifle back in the safe and gets out a $300 BCA junker that's been sitting in his safe uncleaned since the last range day. Same questions- are they even going to care enough to look into it in a justified home defense shooting, and then are they even going to be able to come up with enough evidence to charge the guy, let alone get a jury conviction? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Point me to one single example anyone has ever even been charged with this, let alone being convicted. I'll wait. @JohnAdamsIII People tamper with gun evidence all the time and catch a charge for it. It's pretty common in fact for gangbanger murders. I've seen a tampering charge upheld where the guy rinsed his SKS off in the shower. (Blood and brain matter on the barrel and stock) Obviously we were talking about self defense or home defense shootings. Most people aren't stupid enough to tamper with key evidence in justifiable homicide shootings. That's a lot of words to say you can't come up with a single time it's ever happened. Even though, fun topic of discussion. Say a guy justifiably shoots a home intruder and then in the 20 minutes it takes the cops to get there, he takes the suppressor, optics, lights, IR, sling, etc off his rifle. Firstly, is the investigation team even going to look at that? Second, how would they even go about collecting the evidence to prove that? And then in an alternate scenario, what if the above guy puts his $6k rifle back in the safe and gets out a $300 BCA junker that's been sitting in his safe uncleaned since the last range day. Same questions- are they even going to care enough to look into it in a justified home defense shooting, and then are they even going to be able to come up with enough evidence to charge the guy, let alone get a jury conviction? Or do they just get a search warrant and seize every firearm in the home after the shooting |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 10:41:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Lol wow! Page 13
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Posted: 2/17/2022 10:43:53 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a lot of words to say you can't come up with a single time it's ever happened. Even though, fun topic of discussion. Say a guy justifiably shoots a home intruder and then in the 20 minutes it takes the cops to get there, he takes the suppressor, optics, lights, IR, sling, etc off his rifle. Firstly, is the investigation team even going to look at that? Second, how would they even go about collecting the evidence to prove that? And then in an alternate scenario, what if the above guy puts his $6k rifle back in the safe and gets out a $300 BCA junker that's been sitting in his safe uncleaned since the last range day. Same questions- are they even going to care enough to look into it in a justified home defense shooting, and then are they even going to be able to come up with enough evidence to charge the guy, let alone get a jury conviction? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Point me to one single example anyone has ever even been charged with this, let alone being convicted. I'll wait. @JohnAdamsIII People tamper with gun evidence all the time and catch a charge for it. It's pretty common in fact for gangbanger murders. I've seen a tampering charge upheld where the guy rinsed his SKS off in the shower. (Blood and brain matter on the barrel and stock) Obviously we were talking about self defense or home defense shootings. Most people aren't stupid enough to tamper with key evidence in justifiable homicide shootings. That's a lot of words to say you can't come up with a single time it's ever happened. Even though, fun topic of discussion. Say a guy justifiably shoots a home intruder and then in the 20 minutes it takes the cops to get there, he takes the suppressor, optics, lights, IR, sling, etc off his rifle. Firstly, is the investigation team even going to look at that? Second, how would they even go about collecting the evidence to prove that? And then in an alternate scenario, what if the above guy puts his $6k rifle back in the safe and gets out a $300 BCA junker that's been sitting in his safe uncleaned since the last range day. Same questions- are they even going to care enough to look into it in a justified home defense shooting, and then are they even going to be able to come up with enough evidence to charge the guy, let alone get a jury conviction? Go for it. No skin off my back. Things tend to get messy, in ways you can't predict. Maybe the intruder has a cousin who's a lawyer. Maybe the local prosecutor is under pressure to crack down. Maybe the cops talk to your neighbors and they'll swear on a bible they never heard a single shot at the time you claim you shot him. Maybe your 5 year old daughter blurts out to the police that she saw daddy taking his gun apart after he shot the bad man. Maybe the cops ask you why you have a silencer mount on your gun but no silencer. Our world is governed by chaos. You can't possibly predict and control what happens. The best practice is to keep things as simple as possible. |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 12:12:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you think they don't check ballistics then I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you. Not to mention once you get caught in a lie, don't expect them to believe you on anything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Point me to one single example anyone has ever even been charged with this, let alone being convicted. I'll wait. @JohnAdamsIII People tamper with gun evidence all the time and catch a charge for it. It's pretty common in fact for gangbanger murders. I've seen a tampering charge upheld where the guy rinsed his SKS off in the shower. (Blood and brain matter on the barrel and stock) Obviously we were talking about self defense or home defense shootings. Most people aren't stupid enough to tamper with key evidence in justifiable homicide shootings. That's a lot of words to say you can't come up with a single time it's ever happened. Even though, fun topic of discussion. Say a guy justifiably shoots a home intruder and then in the 20 minutes it takes the cops to get there, he takes the suppressor, optics, lights, IR, sling, etc off his rifle. Firstly, is the investigation team even going to look at that? Second, how would they even go about collecting the evidence to prove that? And then in an alternate scenario, what if the above guy puts his $6k rifle back in the safe and gets out a $300 BCA junker that's been sitting in his safe uncleaned since the last range day. Same questions- are they even going to care enough to look into it in a justified home defense shooting, and then are they even going to be able to come up with enough evidence to charge the guy, let alone get a jury conviction? If you think they don't check ballistics then I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you. Not to mention once you get caught in a lie, don't expect them to believe you on anything. They check ballistics on a justified home defense shooting? I guess it's location dependent. Also, how accurate is ballistic testing? If you shoot someone with an AR at 10 feet, can they recover enough good material to match it to a specific barrel? What about a shotgun, how do they match buckshot to a specific shotgun? |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 12:15:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a lot of words to say you can't come up with a single time it's ever happened. Even though, fun topic of discussion. Say a guy justifiably shoots a home intruder and then in the 20 minutes it takes the cops to get there, he takes the suppressor, optics, lights, IR, sling, etc off his rifle. Firstly, is the investigation team even going to look at that? Second, how would they even go about collecting the evidence to prove that? And then in an alternate scenario, what if the above guy puts his $6k rifle back in the safe and gets out a $300 BCA junker that's been sitting in his safe uncleaned since the last range day. Same questions- are they even going to care enough to look into it in a justified home defense shooting, and then are they even going to be able to come up with enough evidence to charge the guy, let alone get a jury conviction? 
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Posted: 2/17/2022 12:24:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They check ballistics on a justified home defense shooting? I guess it's location dependent. Also, how accurate is ballistic testing? If you shoot someone with an AR at 10 feet, can they recover enough good material to match it to a specific barrel? What about a shotgun, how do they match buckshot to a specific shotgun? Just how old are you?
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Posted: 2/17/2022 12:26:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Obviously we were talking about self defense or home defense shootings. All shootings are approached the same. |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 12:30:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or do they just get a search warrant and seize every firearm in the home after the shooting Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Point me to one single example anyone has ever even been charged with this, let alone being convicted. I'll wait. @JohnAdamsIII People tamper with gun evidence all the time and catch a charge for it. It's pretty common in fact for gangbanger murders. I've seen a tampering charge upheld where the guy rinsed his SKS off in the shower. (Blood and brain matter on the barrel and stock) Obviously we were talking about self defense or home defense shootings. Most people aren't stupid enough to tamper with key evidence in justifiable homicide shootings. That's a lot of words to say you can't come up with a single time it's ever happened. Even though, fun topic of discussion. Say a guy justifiably shoots a home intruder and then in the 20 minutes it takes the cops to get there, he takes the suppressor, optics, lights, IR, sling, etc off his rifle. Firstly, is the investigation team even going to look at that? Second, how would they even go about collecting the evidence to prove that? And then in an alternate scenario, what if the above guy puts his $6k rifle back in the safe and gets out a $300 BCA junker that's been sitting in his safe uncleaned since the last range day. Same questions- are they even going to care enough to look into it in a justified home defense shooting, and then are they even going to be able to come up with enough evidence to charge the guy, let alone get a jury conviction? Or do they just get a search warrant and seize every firearm in the home after the shooting They'll use DrugFire to check the gun against the recovered casing(s) and bullet(s). Takes less than 24 hours to match it all up. I've had recovered firearms matched to homicides less than 48 hours earlier from a separate scene that we didn't even know about. Right or wrong, I would expect a number of your guns to be seized under a warrant if you made a false statement to police about which gun was used since these types of shootings generally go to Grand Jury. In decades past, the Grand Jury was a good thing. Pretty much rubber stamping good HD shootings here. We even had local LEO's on the GJs. Now the DA's office is run by Soros so you'd better start stretching that anus if you make a materially false statement to local LE about which gun was used. |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 12:50:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every Shotgun HD thread does eventually lol. This is true... Its rather amusing to watch and be a part of... We went from Shotguns suck, to some how the AR15 is better, but when we use it, we field strip it afterward so we dont lose our fancy doodads in the evidence room...
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Posted: 2/17/2022 12:51:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This topic has degraded into the most far fetched nonsense ever. Yeah.... Mossberg 590 Mariner - rust isnt really an issue. When it comes to home defense you want a couple tools in your tool box. First go to is pistol with light mounted in a easy access safe, good for room clearing and rounding up kits, easy to tuck in your waste band if there isnt a threat and its just a neighbor or cop. A shotgun loaded with the pdx hybrid rounds is a good tool to have. You can give it to a relatively untrained spouse and tell her to point it at the door, if door opens pull trigger. Also not a bad idea to barricade yourself in similar matter if you know there are multiple hostiles in your house |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 12:53:54 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 2/17/2022 1:11:37 PM EDT
[#14]
If you are unfortunate enough to be in a shooting in your home, and you do anything other than lay the weapon down on your kitchen table when it is over, you are an idiot.
Tamper, swap out guns? You will go to jail. |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 5:18:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A parkerized 590 rusts the same as any m16. I've carried both patrolling in the Philippines, Hawaii, and oki and on a commercial fishing both conus.I rock blued shotguns, so I'll take your word for it |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 5:26:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are unfortunate enough to be in a shooting in your home, and you do anything other than lay the weapon down on your kitchen table when it is over, you are an idiot. Tamper, swap out guns? You will go to jail. Listen to this man. |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 5:44:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My earlier point being what do you want thrown into an evidence room, a $300-$500 shotgun or a $3000+ ar setup? It is not going to be taken care of or babied. And if you think you're taking accessories off after the shooting and putting them away you're just going to rack up tampering charges too. Or stop being poor and realize that having the proper tools might cost money. It's an investment in your personal preparedness. |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 5:46:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of GD believe they will be involved in a small invasion upon their home where plates,NV, and SBR’s will be deployed fending off waves of paramilitary units..reality doesn’t exist here Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Pretty sure my 8 shot mossberg loaded with #1 LE buck will pretty much fuck anybodys day up. Crack shot,and I really don't believe you're gonna have a home invasion by more than 3-4 guys unless you're Tony Montana. Most of GD believe they will be involved in a small invasion upon their home where plates,NV, and SBR’s will be deployed fending off waves of paramilitary units..reality doesn’t exist here So your contention is there is no evidence available to indicate home invasions can possibly involve more than one person? |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 5:55:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My earlier point being what do you want thrown into an evidence room, a $300-$500 shotgun or a $3000+ ar setup? If that $3000 AR saves me and my family's life, then I don't care. It was $3000 well spent. I don't think this argument about "they're gonna keep your weapon" is well thought out. |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 6:04:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that $3000 AR saves me and my family's life, then I don't care. It was $3000 well spent. I don't think this argument about "they're gonna keep your weapon" is well thought out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My earlier point being what do you want thrown into an evidence room, a $300-$500 shotgun or a $3000+ ar setup? If that $3000 AR saves me and my family's life, then I don't care. It was $3000 well spent. I don't think this argument about "they're gonna keep your weapon" is well thought out. Exactly. I have never bought in to the "I don't carry an expensive gun because it will rust in the evidence room" nonsense. Who cares? If a shooting happens, the cost of the firearm you may or may not get back is almost ZERO on the list of things that matter.... |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 6:10:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that $3000 AR saves me and my family's life, then I don't care. It was $3000 well spent. I don't think this argument about "they're gonna keep your weapon" is well thought out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My earlier point being what do you want thrown into an evidence room, a $300-$500 shotgun or a $3000+ ar setup? If that $3000 AR saves me and my family's life, then I don't care. It was $3000 well spent. I don't think this argument about "they're gonna keep your weapon" is well thought out. |
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Posted: 2/17/2022 7:06:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So your contention is there is no evidence available to indicate home invasions can possibly involve more than one person? I don’t care how many there are…I’m still comfortable with a pump shotgun to protect my family and myself inside my home |
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Posted: 3/12/2022 7:32:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. I have never bought in to the "I don't carry an expensive gun because it will rust in the evidence room" nonsense. Who cares? If a shooting happens, the cost of the firearm you may or may not get back is almost ZERO on the list of things that matter.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My earlier point being what do you want thrown into an evidence room, a $300-$500 shotgun or a $3000+ ar setup? If that $3000 AR saves me and my family's life, then I don't care. It was $3000 well spent. I don't think this argument about "they're gonna keep your weapon" is well thought out. Exactly. I have never bought in to the "I don't carry an expensive gun because it will rust in the evidence room" nonsense. Who cares? If a shooting happens, the cost of the firearm you may or may not get back is almost ZERO on the list of things that matter.... People need to prioritize more thoughtfully. |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 1:48:13 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are unfortunate enough to be in a shooting in your home, and you do anything other than lay the weapon down on your kitchen table when it is over, you are an idiot. Tamper, swap out guns? You will go to jail. This is why you put QD mounts on your optics. "I used Irons Officer I swear!" |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 9:29:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is why you put QD mounts on your optics. "I used Irons Officer I swear!" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you are unfortunate enough to be in a shooting in your home, and you do anything other than lay the weapon down on your kitchen table when it is over, you are an idiot. Tamper, swap out guns? You will go to jail. This is why you put QD mounts on your optics. "I used Irons Officer I swear!" Anyone that would risk going to jail for any optic has not thought this through very well. |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 9:38:32 AM EDT
[#26]
I used to wonder at how many people apparently say stupid things to the cops after a shooting.
After reading this thread, it all makes a lot more sense. |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 9:56:39 AM EDT
[#27]
They have their place ..
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Posted: 3/13/2022 10:55:01 AM EDT
[#28]
If they would have used a shotgun to kill this thread, it wouldn’t have resurrected.
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Posted: 3/13/2022 11:05:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Who's the trolling tool who resurrected it? Definitely a ban from thread worthy course of action.
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Posted: 3/13/2022 12:45:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone that would risk going to jail for any optic has not thought this through very well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are unfortunate enough to be in a shooting in your home, and you do anything other than lay the weapon down on your kitchen table when it is over, you are an idiot. Tamper, swap out guns? You will go to jail. This is why you put QD mounts on your optics. "I used Irons Officer I swear!" Anyone that would risk going to jail for any optic has not thought this through very well. I actually don't have an issue with removing an optic or "other" accessory before PD arrives, but I was never of the mindset to fuck over some homeowner defending their family and homestead. Come September might be a few loose pistol braces that fall off a gun before the PD arrives. It wouldn't be tampering with evidence based upon Texas law to remove an optic. Questions about the optic likely wouldn't be material to the investigation and therefore couldn't draw a perjury or false statement charge either. Maybe one of the lawyers here can concoct a scenario where questions over the optic might be material to the investigation. |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 4:29:04 PM EDT
[#31]
We just shot an "Outlaw" match today at our gun club. Kind of a hybrid Steel Challenge and IDPA with shotguns.
I shot an old refurbished Remington 870 Police Magnum. It ran flawlessly. Reloading was eye opening. Here are my observations: Hits were easy, but we were shooting bird shot at 50 feet max on steel and stationary clay birds. Pump guns work. I saw no pump guns jam up or otherwise fail. Semi autos are lightening fast but they will jam when you don't need them to. I saw LOTS of FTF's with semi autos. Reloading is a skill all on it's own. There were a couple guys with shell holders that were ok at dual loading shells. Most of us wore our hunting coat and had shells in the pocket. Reloading is the weak point of a shotgun, IMHO. Before you laugh at us regarding the hunting coats...if I were to get in a gunfight I will probably not be decked out in a 3 gun rig. I purposely wore the coat I wear most, and fed the gun from the right side pocket like I do when hunting. Not 3 Gun Nation Tacticool, but pretty real world. I was happy with my reloading ability, but it was definitely the slowest part of the process. Familiarity matters. I have shot pump action shotguns all my life, thousands of rounds. I was no John Wick, but I am able to load and manipulate the gun while looking for targets. Guys that don't....they struggled. Buying a shotgun and sticking it in the corner is a bad idea. Whatever you choose....practice. This was an awesome match, and we ill do it again. But it reinforced my opinion....a rifle is better. If not for the ballistic difference, I might go so far as to say that even a handgun you are well trained with is better. |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 4:34:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistorySuper sweet! |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 4:39:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that $3000 AR saves me and my family's life, then I don't care. It was $3000 well spent. I don't think this argument about "they're gonna keep your weapon" is well thought out. Yup. If you’re having enough HD shootings for this to impact your finances in a substantive way you have other problems. |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 6:10:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they would have used a shotgun to kill this thread, it wouldn’t have resurrected. 
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Posted: 3/13/2022 7:58:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We just shot an "Outlaw" match today at our gun club. Kind of a hybrid Steel Challenge and IDPA with shotguns. I shot an old refurbished Remington 870 Police Magnum. It ran flawlessly. Reloading was eye opening. Here are my observations: Hits were easy, but we were shooting bird shot at 50 feet max on steel and stationary clay birds. Pump guns work. I saw no pump guns jam up or otherwise fail. Semi autos are lightening fast but they will jam when you don't need them to. I saw LOTS of FTF's with semi autos. Reloading is a skill all on it's own. There were a couple guys with shell holders that were ok at dual loading shells. Most of us wore our hunting coat and had shells in the pocket. Reloading is the weak point of a shotgun, IMHO. Before you laugh at us regarding the hunting coats...if I were to get in a gunfight I will probably not be decked out in a 3 gun rig. I purposely wore the coat I wear most, and fed the gun from the right side pocket like I do when hunting. Not 3 Gun Nation Tacticool, but pretty real world. I was happy with my reloading ability, but it was definitely the slowest part of the process. Familiarity matters. I have shot pump action shotguns all my life, thousands of rounds. I was no John Wick, but I am able to load and manipulate the gun while looking for targets. Guys that don't....they struggled. Buying a shotgun and sticking it in the corner is a bad idea. Whatever you choose....practice. This was an awesome match, and we ill do it again. But it reinforced my opinion....a rifle is better. If not for the ballistic difference, I might go so far as to say that even a handgun you are well trained with is better. Reloading is certainly the weak link. With that said it can be made substantially better through practice and is also not a need in the typical scenario not to say it’s not a skill you should work on mastering or that it’s the right tool for every job. It’s certainly an adequate tool for most of them. |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 8:51:57 PM EDT
[#36]
After reading this thread, If all I have is a shotgun when someone breaks into my house, Ill just use it on myself and save all the hassle.
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Posted: 3/13/2022 8:59:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reloading is certainly the weak link. With that said it can be made substantially better through practice and is also not a need in the typical scenario not to say it’s not a skill you should work on mastering or that it’s the right tool for every job. It’s certainly an adequate tool for most of them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We just shot an "Outlaw" match today at our gun club. Kind of a hybrid Steel Challenge and IDPA with shotguns. I shot an old refurbished Remington 870 Police Magnum. It ran flawlessly. Reloading was eye opening. Here are my observations: Hits were easy, but we were shooting bird shot at 50 feet max on steel and stationary clay birds. Pump guns work. I saw no pump guns jam up or otherwise fail. Semi autos are lightening fast but they will jam when you don't need them to. I saw LOTS of FTF's with semi autos. Reloading is a skill all on it's own. There were a couple guys with shell holders that were ok at dual loading shells. Most of us wore our hunting coat and had shells in the pocket. Reloading is the weak point of a shotgun, IMHO. Before you laugh at us regarding the hunting coats...if I were to get in a gunfight I will probably not be decked out in a 3 gun rig. I purposely wore the coat I wear most, and fed the gun from the right side pocket like I do when hunting. Not 3 Gun Nation Tacticool, but pretty real world. I was happy with my reloading ability, but it was definitely the slowest part of the process. Familiarity matters. I have shot pump action shotguns all my life, thousands of rounds. I was no John Wick, but I am able to load and manipulate the gun while looking for targets. Guys that don't....they struggled. Buying a shotgun and sticking it in the corner is a bad idea. Whatever you choose....practice. This was an awesome match, and we ill do it again. But it reinforced my opinion....a rifle is better. If not for the ballistic difference, I might go so far as to say that even a handgun you are well trained with is better. Reloading is certainly the weak link. With that said it can be made substantially better through practice and is also not a need in the typical scenario not to say it’s not a skill you should work on mastering or that it’s the right tool for every job. It’s certainly an adequate tool for most of them. We rigged all of these scenarios so that we had to reload. All I could think of was "I'm glad no one is shooting at me" as I stuffed shells into the tube.... |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 9:00:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After reading this thread, If all I have is a shotgun when someone breaks into my house, Ill just use it on myself and save all the hassle. Messy.... |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 9:07:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We just shot an "Outlaw" match today at our gun club. Kind of a hybrid Steel Challenge and IDPA with shotguns. I shot an old refurbished Remington 870 Police Magnum. It ran flawlessly. Reloading was eye opening. Here are my observations: Hits were easy, but we were shooting bird shot at 50 feet max on steel and stationary clay birds. Pump guns work. I saw no pump guns jam up or otherwise fail. Semi autos are lightening fast but they will jam when you don't need them to. I saw LOTS of FTF's with semi autos. Reloading is a skill all on it's own. There were a couple guys with shell holders that were ok at dual loading shells. Most of us wore our hunting coat and had shells in the pocket. Reloading is the weak point of a shotgun, IMHO. Before you laugh at us regarding the hunting coats...if I were to get in a gunfight I will probably not be decked out in a 3 gun rig. I purposely wore the coat I wear most, and fed the gun from the right side pocket like I do when hunting. Not 3 Gun Nation Tacticool, but pretty real world. I was happy with my reloading ability, but it was definitely the slowest part of the process. Familiarity matters. I have shot pump action shotguns all my life, thousands of rounds. I was no John Wick, but I am able to load and manipulate the gun while looking for targets. Guys that don't....they struggled. Buying a shotgun and sticking it in the corner is a bad idea. Whatever you choose....practice. This was an awesome match, and we ill do it again. But it reinforced my opinion....a rifle is better. If not for the ballistic difference, I might go so far as to say that even a handgun you are well trained with is better. That’s why 3-gun is referred to as a shotgun loading competition. |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 9:13:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s why 3-gun is referred to as a shotgun loading competition. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We just shot an "Outlaw" match today at our gun club. Kind of a hybrid Steel Challenge and IDPA with shotguns. I shot an old refurbished Remington 870 Police Magnum. It ran flawlessly. Reloading was eye opening. Here are my observations: Hits were easy, but we were shooting bird shot at 50 feet max on steel and stationary clay birds. Pump guns work. I saw no pump guns jam up or otherwise fail. Semi autos are lightening fast but they will jam when you don't need them to. I saw LOTS of FTF's with semi autos. Reloading is a skill all on it's own. There were a couple guys with shell holders that were ok at dual loading shells. Most of us wore our hunting coat and had shells in the pocket. Reloading is the weak point of a shotgun, IMHO. Before you laugh at us regarding the hunting coats...if I were to get in a gunfight I will probably not be decked out in a 3 gun rig. I purposely wore the coat I wear most, and fed the gun from the right side pocket like I do when hunting. Not 3 Gun Nation Tacticool, but pretty real world. I was happy with my reloading ability, but it was definitely the slowest part of the process. Familiarity matters. I have shot pump action shotguns all my life, thousands of rounds. I was no John Wick, but I am able to load and manipulate the gun while looking for targets. Guys that don't....they struggled. Buying a shotgun and sticking it in the corner is a bad idea. Whatever you choose....practice. This was an awesome match, and we ill do it again. But it reinforced my opinion....a rifle is better. If not for the ballistic difference, I might go so far as to say that even a handgun you are well trained with is better. That’s why 3-gun is referred to as a shotgun loading competition.  I can see that |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 9:22:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shotguns are fine. MAC sucks. |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 10:58:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone that would risk going to jail for any optic has not thought this through very well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are unfortunate enough to be in a shooting in your home, and you do anything other than lay the weapon down on your kitchen table when it is over, you are an idiot. Tamper, swap out guns? You will go to jail. This is why you put QD mounts on your optics. "I used Irons Officer I swear!" Anyone that would risk going to jail for any optic has not thought this through very well.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/14/2022 1:01:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We rigged all of these scenarios so that we had to reload. All I could think of was "I'm glad no one is shooting at me" as I stuffed shells into the tube.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: We just shot an "Outlaw" match today at our gun club. Kind of a hybrid Steel Challenge and IDPA with shotguns. I shot an old refurbished Remington 870 Police Magnum. It ran flawlessly. Reloading was eye opening. Here are my observations: Hits were easy, but we were shooting bird shot at 50 feet max on steel and stationary clay birds. Pump guns work. I saw no pump guns jam up or otherwise fail. Semi autos are lightening fast but they will jam when you don't need them to. I saw LOTS of FTF's with semi autos. Reloading is a skill all on it's own. There were a couple guys with shell holders that were ok at dual loading shells. Most of us wore our hunting coat and had shells in the pocket. Reloading is the weak point of a shotgun, IMHO. Before you laugh at us regarding the hunting coats...if I were to get in a gunfight I will probably not be decked out in a 3 gun rig. I purposely wore the coat I wear most, and fed the gun from the right side pocket like I do when hunting. Not 3 Gun Nation Tacticool, but pretty real world. I was happy with my reloading ability, but it was definitely the slowest part of the process. Familiarity matters. I have shot pump action shotguns all my life, thousands of rounds. I was no John Wick, but I am able to load and manipulate the gun while looking for targets. Guys that don't....they struggled. Buying a shotgun and sticking it in the corner is a bad idea. Whatever you choose....practice. This was an awesome match, and we ill do it again. But it reinforced my opinion....a rifle is better. If not for the ballistic difference, I might go so far as to say that even a handgun you are well trained with is better. Reloading is certainly the weak link. With that said it can be made substantially better through practice and is also not a need in the typical scenario not to say it’s not a skill you should work on mastering or that it’s the right tool for every job. It’s certainly an adequate tool for most of them. We rigged all of these scenarios so that we had to reload. All I could think of was "I'm glad no one is shooting at me" as I stuffed shells into the tube.... Precisely how one gets better at it. |
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Posted: 3/14/2022 1:15:18 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We rigged all of these scenarios so that we had to reload. All I could think of was "I'm glad no one is shooting at me" as I stuffed shells into the tube.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: We just shot an "Outlaw" match today at our gun club. Kind of a hybrid Steel Challenge and IDPA with shotguns. I shot an old refurbished Remington 870 Police Magnum. It ran flawlessly. Reloading was eye opening. Here are my observations: Hits were easy, but we were shooting bird shot at 50 feet max on steel and stationary clay birds. Pump guns work. I saw no pump guns jam up or otherwise fail. Semi autos are lightening fast but they will jam when you don't need them to. I saw LOTS of FTF's with semi autos. Reloading is a skill all on it's own. There were a couple guys with shell holders that were ok at dual loading shells. Most of us wore our hunting coat and had shells in the pocket. Reloading is the weak point of a shotgun, IMHO. Before you laugh at us regarding the hunting coats...if I were to get in a gunfight I will probably not be decked out in a 3 gun rig. I purposely wore the coat I wear most, and fed the gun from the right side pocket like I do when hunting. Not 3 Gun Nation Tacticool, but pretty real world. I was happy with my reloading ability, but it was definitely the slowest part of the process. Familiarity matters. I have shot pump action shotguns all my life, thousands of rounds. I was no John Wick, but I am able to load and manipulate the gun while looking for targets. Guys that don't....they struggled. Buying a shotgun and sticking it in the corner is a bad idea. Whatever you choose....practice. This was an awesome match, and we ill do it again. But it reinforced my opinion....a rifle is better. If not for the ballistic difference, I might go so far as to say that even a handgun you are well trained with is better. Reloading is certainly the weak link. With that said it can be made substantially better through practice and is also not a need in the typical scenario not to say it’s not a skill you should work on mastering or that it’s the right tool for every job. It’s certainly an adequate tool for most of them. We rigged all of these scenarios so that we had to reload. All I could think of was "I'm glad no one is shooting at me" as I stuffed shells into the tube.... In real life your moving and loading and it's not that big of a deal. |
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Posted: 3/14/2022 9:26:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who's the trolling tool who resurrected it? Definitely a ban from thread worthy course of action.  Attached File |
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