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Quoted: Out of all the P320s sold, this somehow only happens to cops? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/146/not-bug-it-feature-2826129.jpg View Quote Well if you're looking for a payday as a lawyer in front of an uneducated jury.... Do you choose Joe Shmoe, or the "trained professional"? |
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Quoted: There's a video of a plain clothes police officer getting out is a car and his p320 fires. It's not a high quality video but the guy just exits the back of a car and his holstered gun fires View Quote Did he draw it in the car for some finger-fuckin' in the vehicle, then holster it while seated with his jacket in the trigger guard? Kharn |
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Quoted: Ok. But again... knowing what they do and what they're tasked with, do you think they would carry a gun that could "just go off"? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: P320s aren't "just going off" either. Here is a question for the "just goes off" people. Do you think a NMF/SMU would carry a P320 if it "just goes off"? A what? I do not understand your acronyms. National Missions Force or Special Missions Unit. I'd take it as more than 'not an endorsement' but less than 'an endorsement'. Those groups have budget and time for training, (excessive) practice, and maintenance. Police don't and most of the gun buying public is even worse. Ok. But again... knowing what they do and what they're tasked with, do you think they would carry a gun that could "just go off"? Probably not. Are they not using the thumb saftey variant/M17? If I won a raffle or something and had my pick of 320s, that is what I'd choose. |
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Quoted: Well if you're looking for a payday as a lawyer in front of an uneducated jury.... Do you choose Joe Shmoe, or the "trained professional"? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Out of all the P320s sold, this somehow only happens to cops? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/146/not-bug-it-feature-2826129.jpg Well if you're looking for a payday as a lawyer in front of an uneducated jury.... Do you choose Joe Shmoe, or the "trained professional"? That is a bingo |
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Quoted: Police had MORE NDs when we issued DA revolvers. Training up in to the 1990's advocated "staging" the trigger on the draw. View Quote A few years back before the 320 Sig training also endorsed this on their 226 or whatever DA/SA duty weapon. Seems perfectly reasonable in a life or death situation but what do I know. |
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Quoted: The important question is why are all these municipal police departments having issues where Texas DPS has purchased over 4000 P320's, of which 2800 are carried by uniformed Troopers, and no issues? I keep repeating myself. The P320 will not fire without the trigger being pulled. View Quote False. They will not fire unless the trigger moves to the rear. But you don’t have to “pull” the trigger to move it to the rear. Inertia will move the trigger enough on the early versions |
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Quoted: In the article they site no trigger tab safety being the problem. Ok so which is it? Did it spontaneously fire or was the trigger pulled. Also doesn't Sig offer the 320 in both a safety and non safety version? Also why aren't NDs happening left and right at the Sig Academy? I've been there many times and never heard of or saw anyone have an ND which seems odd because their class loaner guns are pretty beat to shit and used every day. View Quote The gun spontaneously fired when the trigger MOVED without user input. Other makes have the trigger safety to prevent such uncommanded firings. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Has a single 320 that’s claimed to have just gone off ever been able to have the issue replicated? Yes. I’m unaware of this. Cite? You’re aware of it. You just refuse to consider that the issue was never fully corrected due to the lack of a recall. |
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This isn't related to the ND issue, but more debunking the latest round of information warfare against the P320 (pun intended).
Grayguns P320 Blowback explosion? |
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Am I Nb4 all the Sig retards frothing at the mouth in defense of their shitty flawed design abortion of a pistol?
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Quoted: There are four separate steps that have to be overcome to have the pistol fire. A failure at any point renders it unable to do so. The trigger must be pulled fully rearward to enable this sequence to progress, and allow the striker to travel forward with enough force to discharge a round. They showed some of the bodycam that they were able to compile in regards to AD’s and when dissected they all show negligence on the part of the complainant. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Having been through the P320 armorers course Nope. @Natty_Bumppo - I've never taken one apart. What safety features prevents it? There are four separate steps that have to be overcome to have the pistol fire. A failure at any point renders it unable to do so. The trigger must be pulled fully rearward to enable this sequence to progress, and allow the striker to travel forward with enough force to discharge a round. They showed some of the bodycam that they were able to compile in regards to AD’s and when dissected they all show negligence on the part of the complainant. The trigger does not need to be “pulled” or pressed to move rearward far enough to fire the gun. How it gets there doesn’t matter to the gun, only that it gets there. |
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Quoted: You’re aware of it. You just refuse to consider that the issue was never fully corrected due to the lack of a recall. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Has a single 320 that’s claimed to have just gone off ever been able to have the issue replicated? Yes. I’m unaware of this. Cite? You’re aware of it. You just refuse to consider that the issue was never fully corrected due to the lack of a recall. You’re talking about the drop safe thing? Oh, ok. |
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Quoted: lol you’re being deliberately obtuse. The gun can be working just fine as designed and still contribute to a problem. Kind of like why there are anti kickback chains on chainsaws, mowers have decks around the spinning blades etc. It’d be nice to see an ACCURATE list of accidental discharges by firearm type and their attributed causes. I have seen oopsies in all groups, mil, LE, hunters, target shooters. I used to investigate the hunting accidents for a living. There are all sorts of factors that may or may not contribute to an incident. why is it so objectionable to look at things that can contribute to an ND and try to minimize them? Yea training and safety mindset are vitally important. If 90% of these could be shown to be prevented by a wider trigger guard, narrower trigger and or 5 oz more resistance to the trigger pull.....would it be a good thing for duty usage? I can give two shits about the 320. I don’t own one but don’t hate it. In fact they feel pretty good in hand. I retired recently and missed out on the rollout of flashlights on the handguns. The new kids were getting them but they weren’t outfitting us old farts with new holsters. I have a light on a couple guns but they’re not daily carry guns for me. The right holster selection sounds like it is of critical importance, I get that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: You joking? You ever work with rank and file police officers? I mean non-gun people. I knew a now retired nearly 40-year officer who used to preach "start pulling the trigger as soon as you draw the gun" in order to qualify faster. He would go around telling the newer officers this to help them qual. ETA: Nevermind. You aren't joking. Saw your other posts. Maybe issue Nerf guns so nobody will get hurt? I mean since it's not a training issue. lol you’re being deliberately obtuse. The gun can be working just fine as designed and still contribute to a problem. Kind of like why there are anti kickback chains on chainsaws, mowers have decks around the spinning blades etc. It’d be nice to see an ACCURATE list of accidental discharges by firearm type and their attributed causes. I have seen oopsies in all groups, mil, LE, hunters, target shooters. I used to investigate the hunting accidents for a living. There are all sorts of factors that may or may not contribute to an incident. why is it so objectionable to look at things that can contribute to an ND and try to minimize them? Yea training and safety mindset are vitally important. If 90% of these could be shown to be prevented by a wider trigger guard, narrower trigger and or 5 oz more resistance to the trigger pull.....would it be a good thing for duty usage? I can give two shits about the 320. I don’t own one but don’t hate it. In fact they feel pretty good in hand. I retired recently and missed out on the rollout of flashlights on the handguns. The new kids were getting them but they weren’t outfitting us old farts with new holsters. I have a light on a couple guns but they’re not daily carry guns for me. The right holster selection sounds like it is of critical importance, I get that. How many hunting shootings are actually negligence vs "negligence"? |
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Quoted: Back again I see. Username: Check You cannot control your fanboism. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Am I Nb4 all the Sig retards frothing at the mouth in defense of their shitty flawed design abortion of a pistol? Back again I see. Username: Check You cannot control your fanboism. Some people don't think projecting their down syndrome into others be like it is, but it do. Plus he's trying to insult, it's what the emotionally weak do when they cannot form a rational well thought out argument like all the rest of the low emotional intelligent persons; your typical toxic glocker fandom. Fun fact: High emotional intelligent persons have empathy and think about their thinking before saying things that could be problematic and insulting. |
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Taurus has entered the chat |
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Quoted: I wouldn’t own one and I own SIGs. They should’ve just stayed with the tried and true (and safe) SP2022 and developed it further. Dumb. View Quote I have a P229 and a P320. That P320 is extremely innovative. The FCU being the firearm, that almost single action trigger pull. And my example is very accurate. That said, I would not load it with a round in the chamber, and stick it in an inside the waistband holster and carry it. Fuck no. Until I finish vetting my newest Dagger, it's my nightstand pistol. The Dagger will replace it eventually. |
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Quoted: I have a P229 and a P320. That P320 is extremely innovative. The FCU being the firearm, that almost single action trigger pull. And my example is very accurate. That said, I would not load it with a round in the chamber, and stick it in an inside the waistband holster and carry it. Fuck no. Until I finish vetting my newest Dagger, it's my nightstand pistol. The Dagger will replace it eventually. View Quote I considered OWB carry only for my 320. But OWB carried guns get bumped into stuff all the time. I just sold the gun instead. |
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Quoted: After seeing the 2 actually videos of officers holding stuff in both hands and the gun discharges. Won't touch one with a 12 foot pole. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Shitty holsters and poor wpns handling. The .mil carries them worldwide daily with no problems. The USAF doesn’t use the safety so don’t state that is a difference. After seeing the 2 actually videos of officers holding stuff in both hands and the gun discharges. Won't touch one with a 12 foot pole. Links? |
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Quoted: The gun spontaneously fired when the trigger MOVED without user input. Other makes have the trigger safety to prevent such uncommanded firings. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: In the article they site no trigger tab safety being the problem. Ok so which is it? Did it spontaneously fire or was the trigger pulled. Also doesn't Sig offer the 320 in both a safety and non safety version? Also why aren't NDs happening left and right at the Sig Academy? I've been there many times and never heard of or saw anyone have an ND which seems odd because their class loaner guns are pretty beat to shit and used every day. The gun spontaneously fired when the trigger MOVED without user input. Other makes have the trigger safety to prevent such uncommanded firings. You are referring to it not being drop safe? |
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Quoted: You are referring to it not being drop safe? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In the article they site no trigger tab safety being the problem. Ok so which is it? Did it spontaneously fire or was the trigger pulled. Also doesn't Sig offer the 320 in both a safety and non safety version? Also why aren't NDs happening left and right at the Sig Academy? I've been there many times and never heard of or saw anyone have an ND which seems odd because their class loaner guns are pretty beat to shit and used every day. The gun spontaneously fired when the trigger MOVED without user input. Other makes have the trigger safety to prevent such uncommanded firings. You are referring to it not being drop safe? The uncommanded firings are all due to trigger movement. Lots of things can result in a handgun not being “drop” safe. A trigger safety prevents uncommanded trigger movement. |
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Quoted: When a finger or foreign object move the trigger.. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @SteveH still no links to this repeatable discharging? I know you’ve already seen and discounted the videos. When a finger or foreign object move the trigger.. I know you’ve already seen videos of sigs discharging without anything touching the trigger. I know you also discount them because some parts were changed later in some of the affected guns |
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Quoted: I know you’ve already seen videos of sigs discharging without anything touching the trigger. I know you also discount them because some parts were changed later in some of the affected guns View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @SteveH still no links to this repeatable discharging? I know you’ve already seen and discounted the videos. When a finger or foreign object move the trigger.. I know you’ve already seen videos of sigs discharging without anything touching the trigger. I know you also discount them because some parts were changed later in some of the affected guns Proof nothing touched the trigger? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @SteveH still no links to this repeatable discharging? I know you’ve already seen and discounted the videos. When a finger or foreign object move the trigger.. I know you’ve already seen videos of sigs discharging without anything touching the trigger. I know you also discount them because some parts were changed later in some of the affected guns Proof nothing touched the trigger? Your better informed than this. You’ve seen the videos. You just wrongly believe the problem has been fixed |
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Mine shot me through the nightstand drawer. Crazy. These things are the debil!
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Quoted: Your better informed than this. You’ve seen the videos. You just wrongly believe the problem has been fixed View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @SteveH still no links to this repeatable discharging? I know you’ve already seen and discounted the videos. When a finger or foreign object move the trigger.. I know you’ve already seen videos of sigs discharging without anything touching the trigger. I know you also discount them because some parts were changed later in some of the affected guns Proof nothing touched the trigger? Your better informed than this. You’ve seen the videos. You just wrongly believe the problem has been fixed I have seen videos making claims of nothing touching the trigger, also watched the videos that show the safeties and why the gun will not go off unless the trigger is pulled. |
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Quoted: I have seen videos making claims of nothing touching the trigger, also watched the videos that show the safeties and why the gun will not go off unless the trigger is pulled. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @SteveH still no links to this repeatable discharging? I know you’ve already seen and discounted the videos. When a finger or foreign object move the trigger.. I know you’ve already seen videos of sigs discharging without anything touching the trigger. I know you also discount them because some parts were changed later in some of the affected guns Proof nothing touched the trigger? Your better informed than this. You’ve seen the videos. You just wrongly believe the problem has been fixed I have seen videos making claims of nothing touching the trigger, also watched the videos that show the safeties and why the gun will not go off unless the trigger is pulled. You’ve also seen videos of the 320 firing when dropped or struck with a hard object. Glocks use a trigger safety to prevent this. Sig tried to tried to “fix” it by replacing the triggers of some (not all affected) 320s. Why you playing ignorant? You’re better informed than this |
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Quoted: I know you’ve already seen videos of sigs discharging without anything touching the trigger. I know you also discount them because some parts were changed later in some of the affected guns View Quote That's when you should have shown the white flag and surrendered your agenda to the trash bin where it belongs. |
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I wonder if any of these have happened on a 320 with a manual safety?
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Quoted: No mechanical device will prevent all stupidity, obviously. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: @StevenH Why did the Glock dingus not prevent Glock Leg? No mechanical device will prevent all stupidity, obviously. You're disproving your own argument against the 320 by saying that. Thank you for making this one easy. |
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Quoted: Shitty holsters and poor wpns handling. The .mil carries them worldwide daily with no problems. The USAF doesn’t use the safety so don’t state that is a difference. View Quote I don’t frankly give a fuck about the 320 but saying the Air Force does anything with a firearm is a clear indication that anything said there after should be dismissed. The Air Force didn’t even Cary rifles in Baghdad. I’ve seen your security forces, I’d rather go into combat with a section of cooks. |
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Quoted: You’ve also seen videos of the 320 firing when dropped or struck with a hard object. Glocks use a trigger safety to prevent this. Sig tried to tried to “fix” it by replacing the triggers of some (not all affected) 320s. Why you playing ignorant? You’re better informed than this View Quote Quoted: No mechanical device will prevent all stupidity, obviously. View Quote Today: StevenH vs StevenH |
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Quoted: Is this true? One of America’s most popular handguns is allegedly firing on its own, leaving dozens of cops injured: suit One of America’s most popular guns is a “ticking time bomb” that allegedly fires spontaneously and has injured dozens of cops. The SIG Sauer P320 semi-automatic handgun is used by some 1,000 law enforcement agencies from the local to the federal level, as well as being a popular civilian purchase. But its manufacturer is facing a slew of lawsuits alleging that it can fire even when holstered, even when the trigger isn’t pulled, and even when it is just sitting at rest, lawyers allege. According to the suits against SIG Sauer, some 150 people claim to have suffered injuries, or frightening near misses, when their department-issued P320 went off on its own. One law enforcement source told The Post, “The P320 isn’t just a gun, it’s a ticking time bomb.” And one of the attorneys handling the many cases calls the P320 “America’s most dangerously defective gun.” The Sig Sauer company, based in Newington, New Hampshire, did not respond to requests for comment. The cases center on the P320 not having an external manual safety, known as a tab trigger. Attorneys bringing the cases say it is a crucial design flaw that makes the gun liable to fire spontaneously, with disastrous consequences. They say that although nobody has been killed, many have been injured. Those include Sgt. Ashley Catatao, 35, a single mother of a young son and an officer in the Somerville, Mass., Police Department. The 12-year veteran was beginning a typical night shift patrol — 4 p.m. to midnight — in the sector cruiser on April 6, 2022, as the third-most senior officer on the block. She parked her car and walked toward her cruiser, “when I heard a loud bang and I felt this sharp pain in my upper right thigh,” she told The Post. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259519/6791E63F-A1A5-4417-BAD8-43AE099FEA1F_jpe-2826104.JPG Her immediate thought was, “’Someone has shot me,’ and I tried to run for cover, and as I started to run, I looked down and I saw that there was a hole in my pants.” But there was nobody trying to gun her down: Instead, she had been wounded from a bullet fired from her holstered service gun, a SIG Sauer P320. “I never would have expected that my own gun would go off and shoot me,” she said. The startling episode was captured in black and white video by a police security camera that overlooked the lot. Sgt. Michael Colwell was 31, with a bachelor’s degree in psychology, when he went through the police academy in 2009 and joined the Troy, New York, Police Department. His uncle was a retired K9 officer and always had great law enforcement stories to tell, so “police work was something I was kind of interested in, and I decided to give it a shot,” Colwell told The Post. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259519/FA970C18-BE8C-4C7F-990D-299928B7CE8B_jpe-2826105.JPG At the academy, he scored well, even winning an award for his shooting skill. “That was pretty neat to get that recognition,” he says, “to have that accolade.” He was always a “patrol guy” and was promoted to sergeant in 2015. And in all that time, he had never shot anyone or been shot at. That is until June 2, 2021, on the range when he was shot, like Catatao, by his SIG Sauer P320. “I had holstered my duty weapon, tucked it away when we heard a pop. We knew it was a gun that went off and we didn’t know if it was another officer participating in the [range practice] scenario,” he said. “The next thing, the firearms instructor who was monitoring looked at me and said, ‘Is that your gun? Are you hit?’ “I didn’t know. And then with disbelief and adrenaline rushing through me, I realized that a bullet kind of came crushing through my leg, and sure enough, there was a hole in my pants and that’s when the reality and panic set in on my part because the hole wasn’t there when I started the day.” Catatao and Colwell are just two of the 82 cases, most of them involving law enforcement, being brought by personal injury attorney Robert Zimmerman, with the Philadelphia law firm Saltz Mongeluzzi Barrett and Bendesky. He has filed 52 cases and another 30 are being prepared. More at link. View Quote U gun uh pizuff da zig guisse. |
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