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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:33:10 PM EST
[#1]
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Smith and Wesson. Because you suck, and we hate you. because you cant read |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:37:20 PM EST
[#2]
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I now have no idea whats going on Then you should start hating on S&W. That's what the other clueless dipshits are doing. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:40:22 PM EST
[#3]
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oh yeah it's a [piece of shit,the only reason it works now is b/c he changed fucking everything on it Quote HistoryQuoted:
oh yeah it's a [piece of shit,the only reason it works now is b/c he changed fucking everything on it That sounds uncomfortable |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:40:43 PM EST
[#4]
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http://www.recoilweb.com/sw-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-custom-gunsmiths-80507.html Here you go guys! Enjoy! Like I said, they were intentionally holding key pieces of information in an attempt to sway popular opinion against Smith. That is the liberal thing to do. Good job SSVI. Tempest in a tea pot; this legal action has nothing to do with end users modifying their guns or having paying others do it for them. Nor are they demanding that companies cease and desist from selling aftermarket parts. Smith & Wesson is perfectly justified in taking this legal action to protect their trademark as well as for liability issues, since S&W would incur liability in the event of any injuries if it could be proven that S&W knew about these "M&P Dream Guns" and took no action, thereby giving it's implied consent to the guns in fact, being authentic Smith and Wesson products. ARFcom protects it's trademark aggressively as well; it's a proper and entirely legitimate business practice. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:40:47 PM EST
[#5]
i don't like this one bit.. no sir i don't
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:40:52 PM EST
[#6]
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http://www.recoilweb.com/sw-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-custom-gunsmiths-80507.html Here you go guys! Enjoy! Like I said, they were intentionally holding key pieces of information in an attempt to sway popular opinion against Smith. That is the liberal thing to do. Good job SSVI. Copied from the article: The demands are listed thusly: These intellectual property and safety and quality concerns are extremely serious and demand your immediate attention. Accordingly, we demand that you: 1. Confirm in writing that neither you nor any third party will display the Infringing Product, or any similar product, at the 2016 SHOT Show or make any other commercial display or promotion of such Infringing Product; 2. Cease the sale of any firearm modified by you or any other third party that bears any Smith & Wesson trademark, including, but not limited to the S&W® Marks or the M&P® Marks; and 3. Turn over to Smith & Wesson your inventory of the Infringing Product, or any Smith & Wesson product modified by you in the first instance that bears any mark owned by Smith & Wesson. If we do not hear from you by January 5, 2015, Smith & Wesson will pursue its rights and remedies to the fullest extent permitted by law without further notice to you. Read more: http://www.recoilweb.com/sw-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-custom-gunsmiths-80507.html#ixzz3v5HtSuN8 |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:43:08 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tempest in a tea pot; this legal action has nothing to do with end users modifying their guns or having paying others do it for them. Nor are they demanding that companies cease and desist from selling aftermarket parts. Smith & Wesson is perfectly justified in taking this legal action to protect their trademark as well as for liability issues, since S&W would incur liability in the event of any injuries if it could be proven that S&W knew about these "M&P Dream Guns" and took no action, thereby giving it's implied consent to the guns in fact, being authentic Smith and Wesson products. ARFcom protects it's trademark aggressively as well; it's a proper and entirely legitimate business practice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.recoilweb.com/sw-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-custom-gunsmiths-80507.html Here you go guys! Enjoy! Like I said, they were intentionally holding key pieces of information in an attempt to sway popular opinion against Smith. That is the liberal thing to do. Good job SSVI. Tempest in a tea pot; this legal action has nothing to do with end users modifying their guns or having paying others do it for them. Nor are they demanding that companies cease and desist from selling aftermarket parts. Smith & Wesson is perfectly justified in taking this legal action to protect their trademark as well as for liability issues, since S&W would incur liability in the event of any injuries if it could be proven that S&W knew about these "M&P Dream Guns" and took no action, thereby giving it's implied consent to the guns in fact, being authentic Smith and Wesson products. ARFcom protects it's trademark aggressively as well; it's a proper and entirely legitimate business practice. I'm not so sure about that after reading their complaint. They are not only demanding the "offending" companies stop marketing a "Dream Gun", they're also demanding they turn in their S&W product! Edit: Now, if I was Smith, I'd say "hey guys, you want to modify our guns? Okay, no problem - but WARRANTY VOIDED." That's it. And that companies modding guns in functional ways - lighter triggers, that kind of thing - assume liability if issues arise from those mods. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:49:42 PM EST
[#8]
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is there a clause when buying an m&p that says you can't alter it and resell it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The plot thickens..... S&W "M&P Dream Gun" offered with altered parts and still exhibiting the S&W and M&P trade marks... https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1934597_10204099808133979_4312216293917758907_n.jpg?oh=d6fb300a561bdee6dc4e2dfec65490de&oe=570D8406 They are selling a new pistol that they alter as a smith....... This actually probably is a direct violation of US trademark/patent law and Smith isn't really saying much about personally owned weapons modified after it seems. Or maybe this is only part of their grievance. This should be inserted in OP. Looks like Apex et al done fucked up is there a clause when buying an m&p that says you can't alter it and resell it? As a business, you can't upgrade firearms (new or used) for resale without a Type 07 FFL and engraving your name, city, and state on it as the manufacturer so 1) ATF is kept happy, 2) people know exactly what they're buying, and 3) owners know who to contact about warranty issues. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:50:37 PM EST
[#9]
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That will not go as planned for S&W Yup. Just another reason I want rid of my M&P9 |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:51:02 PM EST
[#10]
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As a business, you can't upgrade firearms (new or used) for resale without a Type 07 FFL and engraving your name, city, and state on it as the manufacturer so 1) ATF is kept happy, 2) people know exactly what they're buying, and 3) owners know who to contact about warranty issues. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The plot thickens..... S&W "M&P Dream Gun" offered with altered parts and still exhibiting the S&W and M&P trade marks... https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1934597_10204099808133979_4312216293917758907_n.jpg?oh=d6fb300a561bdee6dc4e2dfec65490de&oe=570D8406 They are selling a new pistol that they alter as a smith....... This actually probably is a direct violation of US trademark/patent law and Smith isn't really saying much about personally owned weapons modified after it seems. Or maybe this is only part of their grievance. This should be inserted in OP. Looks like Apex et al done fucked up is there a clause when buying an m&p that says you can't alter it and resell it? As a business, you can't upgrade firearms (new or used) for resale without a Type 07 FFL and engraving your name, city, and state on it as the manufacturer so 1) ATF is kept happy, 2) people know exactly what they're buying, and 3) owners know who to contact about warranty issues. this still has nothing to do with the letter. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:52:00 PM EST
[#11]
They're not selling the "Dream Gun", its for display only to showcase features of aftermarket mods.
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:53:36 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I've read so far, the above seems correct. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ok, I changed the OP and I think I'm understanding this now. It looks like Smith and Wesson have good reason to issue this cease and desist for that particular gun, and are not asking them to stop modifying customers guns. Have I got all this right? From what I've read so far, the above seems correct. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:54:02 PM EST
[#13]
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They're not selling the "Dream Gun", its for display only to showcase features of aftermarket mods. legally, that doesn't matter. They are still profiting off of it. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:54:29 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not so sure about that after reading their complaint. They are not only demanding the "offending" companies stop marketing a "Dream Gun", they're also demanding they turn in their S&W product! Edit: Now, if I was Smith, I'd say "hey guys, you want to modify our guns? Okay, no problem - but WARRANTY VOIDED." That's it. And that companies modding guns in functional ways - lighter triggers, that kind of thing - assume liability if issues arise from those mods. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.recoilweb.com/sw-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-custom-gunsmiths-80507.html Here you go guys! Enjoy! Like I said, they were intentionally holding key pieces of information in an attempt to sway popular opinion against Smith. That is the liberal thing to do. Good job SSVI. Tempest in a tea pot; this legal action has nothing to do with end users modifying their guns or having paying others do it for them. Nor are they demanding that companies cease and desist from selling aftermarket parts. Smith & Wesson is perfectly justified in taking this legal action to protect their trademark as well as for liability issues, since S&W would incur liability in the event of any injuries if it could be proven that S&W knew about these "M&P Dream Guns" and took no action, thereby giving it's implied consent to the guns in fact, being authentic Smith and Wesson products. ARFcom protects it's trademark aggressively as well; it's a proper and entirely legitimate business practice. I'm not so sure about that after reading their complaint. They are not only demanding the "offending" companies stop marketing a "Dream Gun", they're also demanding they turn in their S&W product! Edit: Now, if I was Smith, I'd say "hey guys, you want to modify our guns? Okay, no problem - but WARRANTY VOIDED." That's it. And that companies modding guns in functional ways - lighter triggers, that kind of thing - assume liability if issues arise from those mods. That doesn't shield S&W against 3rd party liability suits in the event of injury, because in the event the company allowed the sales of the modified guns to go forward under their company trademark, they would be deemed to be complicit in the sale of a hazardous/defective product. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:54:51 PM EST
[#15]
Whoa everybody. The deal on this seems to arise over the M&P " Dream Gun" being touted by Brownell's and Apex -
http://www.apextactical.com/blog/index.php/apex-news/apex-teams-with-top-custom-builders-on-brownells-dream-gun/ |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:55:21 PM EST
[#16]
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First the Sigma, now this. Don't forget the integrated locks. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:55:51 PM EST
[#17]
I know you lawyers live for this kind of sh*t, but it looks heavy-handed and petty to the rest of us.
Just so you know. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:56:51 PM EST
[#18]
-nevermind-
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:57:03 PM EST
[#19]
-nevermind-
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:57:06 PM EST
[#20]
So, to recap...
Part of a letter sent from S&W to companies who alter firearms and resell them got posted and everyone thought they were saying no more aftermarket parts, which is dumb. Hooray reading. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 3:58:31 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would have to respectfully disagree with you there. S&W started going downhill after their 3rd gen pistols, I owned 4 of them and still own 1. I bought a shield this spring (after a long debate over the shield or getting a G26 or the 43) that was total crap and took 2 trips back for them to fix it. Once I was satisfied that I could sell it in good faith I dumped it and went back to another Glock. Their customer service is crap and they don't give a shit. They're riding on their name and putting out a shit product. Their M&P's need a $100 upgrade to get a decent trigger? No thanks....  Google shield FTE and see all the issues with them or just look in the S&W forum.Here is my story of my cluster with them... S&W of today is nothing like the company or products they used to be. I don't ever see myself buying another S&W again  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think I'm going to wait until this proves to be real until I break out the torch and pitchfork. A move like this from S&W makes zero sense... and they have been making pretty good decisions the last few years. I would have to respectfully disagree with you there. S&W started going downhill after their 3rd gen pistols, I owned 4 of them and still own 1. I bought a shield this spring (after a long debate over the shield or getting a G26 or the 43) that was total crap and took 2 trips back for them to fix it. Once I was satisfied that I could sell it in good faith I dumped it and went back to another Glock. Their customer service is crap and they don't give a shit. They're riding on their name and putting out a shit product. Their M&P's need a $100 upgrade to get a decent trigger? No thanks.... Google shield FTE and see all the issues with them or just look in the S&W forum.Here is my story of my cluster with them... S&W of today is nothing like the company or products they used to be. I don't ever see myself buying another S&W again Correct, S&W is a shadow of their former self. Their quality control is horrible, they lack of innovation is horrible, and their products are crap. Even the Performance Center today is a joke. What is a PC Gun today in terms of "quality and work" would have been a standard production gun back in the 3rd Gen Days. Their revolvers of today are shit too. Two piece barrels, frame mounted firing pins, lawyer locks, MIM parts. And they have the nerve to charge $1,000 and claim that they're the same as before. Plus when their used models actually go for more. That is whay I call a clue. When a used Model 686 goes for more than a new Model 686... that says a lot. S&W is now being driven by Shareholders and yeah, they have to make a buck. But to make a buck, they cut a lot of corners. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:00:14 PM EST
[#22]
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Whoa everybody. The deal on this seems to arise over the M&P " Dream Gun" being touted by Brownell's and Apex - http://www.apextactical.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/DreamGunOWDN-2-600x449.jpg http://www.apextactical.com/blog/index.php/apex-news/apex-teams-with-top-custom-builders-on-brownells-dream-gun/ I wonder what other manufacturers of "dream guns" have sent similar C&D Letters |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:01:05 PM EST
[#23]
S&W suing someone?
Damn I wish the Glock lawsuit bankrupted them.... not to mention S&W having to copy the 1911 & AR designs pot calling kettle black fuck S&W yet again |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:02:10 PM EST
[#24]
Could modifying the factory parts for resale be issue
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:02:54 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got some M&Ps that would beg to differ. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is a huge mistake for S&W. The best way to "win" most anything is to make your idea the most ubiquitous thing around ... That means not suing people customizing your excellent guns, S&W. M&P is shit Their revolvers are now shit Even their Performance Center is shit S&W stopped making good guns when they did lawyer locks, two piece barrels, and frame mounted firing pins along with ceasing production of the 3rd Gen Autos. I've got some M&Ps that would beg to differ. My .45 had a shit trigger and my 9mm had shit accuracy due to crappy sized barrel hoods on top of the shit trigger. Oh, the rust too.... so much for a Melonite finish that rivals Glock's Tennifer. My 4506-1 is still going strong and so is my 5926. Both early 90s production guns. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:03:27 PM EST
[#26]
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So, to recap... Part of a letter sent from S&W to companies who alter firearms and resell them got posted and everyone thought they were saying no more aftermarket parts, which is dumb. Hooray reading. yes, it was intentionally posted like that. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:04:08 PM EST
[#27]
Apex, Brownells, SSVI and blowndeadline should borrow a line from General McAuliffe. That letter only needs a one word response.
Nuts! |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:04:14 PM EST
[#28]
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S&W suing someone? Damn I wish the Glock lawsuit bankrupted them.... pot calling kettle black fuck S&W yet again FUCK READING! AMERICA! |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:04:21 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, to recap... Part of a letter sent from S&W to companies who alter firearms and resell them got posted and everyone thought they were saying no more aftermarket parts, which is dumb. Hooray reading. Pretty much. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:04:33 PM EST
[#30]
My guess is S&W didn't have a problem with them making trigger parts but when Apex decided to heavily modify a M&P and market it as a "Dream M&P" with all the S&W and other logos intact then the legal department decided to send a letter. You can debate the business aspect of this decision but from a pure trademark and consumer confusion perspective they have a case.
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:05:33 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My M&Ps were shit... hence why I sold them. I really tried to love the guns and I'm a huge S&W fan but they sucked ass. My .45 had a shit trigger and my 9mm had shit accuracy due to crappy sized barrel hoods on top of the shit trigger. Oh, the rust too.... so much for a Melonite finish that rivals Glock's Tennifer. My 4506-1 is still going strong and so is my 5926. Both early 90s production guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is a huge mistake for S&W. The best way to "win" most anything is to make your idea the most ubiquitous thing around ... That means not suing people customizing your excellent guns, S&W. M&P is shit Their revolvers are now shit Even their Performance Center is shit S&W stopped making good guns when they did lawyer locks, two piece barrels, and frame mounted firing pins along with ceasing production of the 3rd Gen Autos. I've got some M&Ps that would beg to differ. My .45 had a shit trigger and my 9mm had shit accuracy due to crappy sized barrel hoods on top of the shit trigger. Oh, the rust too.... so much for a Melonite finish that rivals Glock's Tennifer. My 4506-1 is still going strong and so is my 5926. Both early 90s production guns. Could be your acidic sweat, APEX triggers work wonders, and S&W was making right on the 9mms with bad accuracy by replacing the barrel with the newer generation with a faster twist and tighter lockup. Both my MP45 and MP9 are going strong and are plenty accurate with a good trigger and good sights. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:05:58 PM EST
[#32]
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Tempest in a tea pot; this legal action has nothing to do with end users modifying their guns or having paying others do it for them. Nor are they demanding that companies cease and desist from selling aftermarket parts. Smith & Wesson is perfectly justified in taking this legal action to protect their trademark as well as for liability issues, since S&W would incur liability in the event of any injuries if it could be proven that S&W knew about these "M&P Dream Guns" and took no action, thereby giving it's implied consent to the guns in fact, being authentic Smith and Wesson products. ARFcom protects it's trademark aggressively as well; it's a proper and entirely legitimate business practice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.recoilweb.com/sw-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-custom-gunsmiths-80507.html Here you go guys! Enjoy! Like I said, they were intentionally holding key pieces of information in an attempt to sway popular opinion against Smith. That is the liberal thing to do. Good job SSVI. Tempest in a tea pot; this legal action has nothing to do with end users modifying their guns or having paying others do it for them. Nor are they demanding that companies cease and desist from selling aftermarket parts. Smith & Wesson is perfectly justified in taking this legal action to protect their trademark as well as for liability issues, since S&W would incur liability in the event of any injuries if it could be proven that S&W knew about these "M&P Dream Guns" and took no action, thereby giving it's implied consent to the guns in fact, being authentic Smith and Wesson products. ARFcom protects it's trademark aggressively as well; it's a proper and entirely legitimate business practice. Arfcom sells complete AR15.com rifles. I don't see them suing people that modify them. The liability issue your're talking about is pretty weak. Look into Subsequent Modification case law, and I don't think you're going to see an argument where failing to enforce a trademark gets liability back to the manufacturer. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:06:02 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That will not go as planned for S&W Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:06:42 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FUCK READING! AMERICA! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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S&W suing someone? Damn I wish the Glock lawsuit bankrupted them.... pot calling kettle black fuck S&W yet again FUCK READING! AMERICA! I did read the legal complaint did you COMPREHEND it? Try THINKING about the following two demands and the impact 2. Cease the sale of any firearm modified by you or any other third party that bears any Smith & Wesson trademark, including, but not limited to the S&W® Marks or the M&P® Marks; and 3. Turn over to Smith & Wesson your inventory of the Infringing Product, or any Smith & Wesson product modified by you in the first instance that bears any mark owned by Smith & Wesson. Read more: http://www.recoilweb.com/sw-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-custom-gunsmiths-80507.html#ixzz3v5Op11Ah |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:06:55 PM EST
[#35]
Yawn, something new for people to be outraged about.
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:08:48 PM EST
[#36]
Panic bought an Apex trigger
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:11:21 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did read the legal complaint did you COMPREHEND it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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S&W suing someone? Damn I wish the Glock lawsuit bankrupted them.... pot calling kettle black fuck S&W yet again FUCK READING! AMERICA! I did read the legal complaint did you COMPREHEND it? No you didn't. If you did, you would have seen that they are NOT suing anyone. Try again? |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:13:17 PM EST
[#38]
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No you didn't. If you did, you would have seen that they are NOT suing anyone. Try again? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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S&W suing someone? Damn I wish the Glock lawsuit bankrupted them.... pot calling kettle black fuck S&W yet again FUCK READING! AMERICA! I did read the legal complaint did you COMPREHEND it? No you didn't. If you did, you would have seen that they are NOT suing anyone. Try again? They issued a demand letter with a deadline of Jan 5th. I was referring to PAST incidents when S&W either sued or was sued. S&W should focus on making quality innovative firearms instead of suing and copying as they have done in the past. S&W still sucks ass |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:16:42 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That doesn't shield S&W against 3rd party liability suits in the event of injury, because in the event the company allowed the sales of the modified guns to go forward under their company trademark, they would be deemed to be complicit in the sale of a hazardous/defective product. Why would S&W be liable for any hazardous/defective product due to aftermarket modifications? 
Has anyone successfully sued Ford or Chevy for a malfunctioning lift kit or oversize wheels/tires? I can't imagine any judge would uphold a lawsuit against a company after modifications were made and the warranty voided. Just because the manufacturer's logo is still on the product, doesn't mean they're liable for problems caused by aftermarket mods. I'm no lawyer, and I can understand them voiding warranties on modified guns, but trying to keep someone from modifying your guns to resell seems far fetched. Where is the line? Can they claim that anyone reselling a modified M&P is violating their trademark because it still has the logo on it? Can a small time shop sell an M&P with aftermarket sights installed, or an Apex trigger? At what point is the gun so heavily modified that the warranty is voided and the seller is infringing on their trademark? Regardless of whether it holds up to legal scrutiny, this has to be a horrible PR decision for S&W. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:18:34 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That doesn't shield S&W against 3rd party liability suits in the event of injury, because in the event the company allowed the sales of the modified guns to go forward under their company trademark, they would be deemed to be complicit in the sale of a hazardous/defective product. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm not so sure about that after reading their complaint. They are not only demanding the "offending" companies stop marketing a "Dream Gun", they're also demanding they turn in their S&W product! Edit: Now, if I was Smith, I'd say "hey guys, you want to modify our guns? Okay, no problem - but WARRANTY VOIDED." That's it. And that companies modding guns in functional ways - lighter triggers, that kind of thing - assume liability if issues arise from those mods. That doesn't shield S&W against 3rd party liability suits in the event of injury, because in the event the company allowed the sales of the modified guns to go forward under their company trademark, they would be deemed to be complicit in the sale of a hazardous/defective product. Smith wouldn't necessarily know their product is being sold specifically to be modified... But that's not what you were referring to before, is it? Kindly let's not move goalposts. This is a legal "CYA" maneuver that still comes across, well, badly in this day and age. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:18:48 PM EST
[#41]
That letter is bullshit.
It would be like demanding that an aftermarket wheel company not sell Toyota wheels, or an exhaust company not sell mufflers for Chevys. Ridiculous. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:20:27 PM EST
[#42]
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I know you lawyers live for this kind of sh*t, but it looks heavy-handed and petty to the rest of us. Just so you know. just pissing in shoes. LoL |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:22:46 PM EST
[#43]
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Arfcom sells complete AR15.com rifles. I don't see them suing people that modify them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.recoilweb.com/sw-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-custom-gunsmiths-80507.html Here you go guys! Enjoy! Like I said, they were intentionally holding key pieces of information in an attempt to sway popular opinion against Smith. That is the liberal thing to do. Good job SSVI. Tempest in a tea pot; this legal action has nothing to do with end users modifying their guns or having paying others do it for them. Nor are they demanding that companies cease and desist from selling aftermarket parts. Smith & Wesson is perfectly justified in taking this legal action to protect their trademark as well as for liability issues, since S&W would incur liability in the event of any injuries if it could be proven that S&W knew about these "M&P Dream Guns" and took no action, thereby giving it's implied consent to the guns in fact, being authentic Smith and Wesson products. ARFcom protects it's trademark aggressively as well; it's a proper and entirely legitimate business practice. Arfcom sells complete AR15.com rifles. I don't see them suing people that modify them. What if someone owned a small business and purchased the AR15.com rifle direct from Arfcom and decked it head to toe in Tapco, and resold it thru their business as the "ARFCOM Dream Rifle?" |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:25:04 PM EST
[#44]
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What if someone owned a small business and purchased the AR15.com rifle direct from Arfcom and decked it head to toe in Tapco, and resold it thru their business as the "ARFCOM Dream Rifle?" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.recoilweb.com/sw-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-custom-gunsmiths-80507.html Here you go guys! Enjoy! Like I said, they were intentionally holding key pieces of information in an attempt to sway popular opinion against Smith. That is the liberal thing to do. Good job SSVI. Tempest in a tea pot; this legal action has nothing to do with end users modifying their guns or having paying others do it for them. Nor are they demanding that companies cease and desist from selling aftermarket parts. Smith & Wesson is perfectly justified in taking this legal action to protect their trademark as well as for liability issues, since S&W would incur liability in the event of any injuries if it could be proven that S&W knew about these "M&P Dream Guns" and took no action, thereby giving it's implied consent to the guns in fact, being authentic Smith and Wesson products. ARFcom protects it's trademark aggressively as well; it's a proper and entirely legitimate business practice. Arfcom sells complete AR15.com rifles. I don't see them suing people that modify them. What if someone owned a small business and purchased the AR15.com rifle direct from Arfcom and decked it head to toe in Tapco, and resold it thru their business as the "ARFCOM Dream Rifle?" The wheels came off your argument at "tapco". |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:25:05 PM EST
[#45]
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They issued a demand letter with a deadline of Jan 5th. I was referring to PAST incidents when S&W either sued or was sued. S&W should focus on making quality innovative firearms instead of suing and copying as they have done in the past. S&W still sucks ass Quote HistoryQuoted:
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S&W suing someone? Damn I wish the Glock lawsuit bankrupted them.... pot calling kettle black fuck S&W yet again FUCK READING! AMERICA! I did read the legal complaint did you COMPREHEND it? No you didn't. If you did, you would have seen that they are NOT suing anyone. Try again? They issued a demand letter with a deadline of Jan 5th. I was referring to PAST incidents when S&W either sued or was sued. S&W should focus on making quality innovative firearms instead of suing and copying as they have done in the past. S&W still sucks ass What?
No, you were pointing out that S&W is suing someone, and that you wished Glock would have bankrupted them when Glock sued them for the Sigma. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:26:04 PM EST
[#46]
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I know you lawyers live for this kind of sh*t, but it looks heavy-handed and petty to the rest of us. Just so you know. I understand the legal side as well and feel the same way - even if S&W is legally 100% correct they fail in the PR war. I don't even see the gun for sale. To me it seems like it's for display purposes. I'll vote for how I feel with my wallet and refrain from buying anything from S&W. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:27:13 PM EST
[#47]
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That letter is bullshit. It would be like demanding that an aftermarket wheel company not sell Toyota wheels, or an exhaust company not sell mufflers for Chevys. Ridiculous. No, it would be like demanding an aftermarket wheel company not trick out a Toyota and sell it as a new Toyota, or an exhaust company not trick out a Chevy and sell it as a new Chevy. They're not forbidding people from selling aftermarket parts. They're forbidding them from modifying a factory gun and then selling it as a new M&P. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:28:11 PM EST
[#48]
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What if someone owned a small business and purchased the AR15.com rifle direct from Arfcom and decked it head to toe in Tapco, and resold it thru their business as the "ARFCOM Dream Rifle?" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.recoilweb.com/sw-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-custom-gunsmiths-80507.html Here you go guys! Enjoy! Like I said, they were intentionally holding key pieces of information in an attempt to sway popular opinion against Smith. That is the liberal thing to do. Good job SSVI. Tempest in a tea pot; this legal action has nothing to do with end users modifying their guns or having paying others do it for them. Nor are they demanding that companies cease and desist from selling aftermarket parts. Smith & Wesson is perfectly justified in taking this legal action to protect their trademark as well as for liability issues, since S&W would incur liability in the event of any injuries if it could be proven that S&W knew about these "M&P Dream Guns" and took no action, thereby giving it's implied consent to the guns in fact, being authentic Smith and Wesson products. ARFcom protects it's trademark aggressively as well; it's a proper and entirely legitimate business practice. Arfcom sells complete AR15.com rifles. I don't see them suing people that modify them. What if someone owned a small business and purchased the AR15.com rifle direct from Arfcom and decked it head to toe in Tapco, and resold it thru their business as the "ARFCOM Dream Rifle?" Sounds about right. 
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:30:37 PM EST
[#49]
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My guess is S&W didn't have a problem with them making trigger parts but when Apex decided to heavily modify a M&P and market it as a "Dream M&P" with all the S&W and other logos intact then the legal department decided to send a letter. You can debate the business aspect of this decision but from a pure trademark and consumer confusion perspective they have a case. You probably guess wrong. But not everything is posted on the internet. |
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Posted: 12/22/2015 4:33:23 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually, the CAI might work for denying the claim on the diffs... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is next? Ford sending tire shops letters to stop putting wheels and tires on F250's? lol Good luck with that. GM pretty much told us changing our own oil will void the warranty Friend of mine was denied warranty on his new Silverado's differentials because he put in a cold air intake. Actually, the CAI might work for denying the claim on the diffs... |
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