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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:19:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like how everyone thinks that a car with terrible handling characteristics makes it a good car.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Porsche has always kneecapped the Cayman/Boxster so the 911 would remain King. The mid engine design is more balanced, and is a better sports car design. If they put a bigger engine in the Cayman it would outperform the 911. But because they have never done that, and will never do that, the 911 is arguably "better". However, the rear engine design is flawed in a high performance sports car, especially for novice driver's who may panic and hit the brakes in high speed turns and throw the 911 into a spin. But they are both great cars, it's subjective. Personally, I'd rather have an air cooled 911 Targa. Initially they hamstrung the Cayman but the GTS 4.0 and GT4 changed that. I’m going to disagree about the rear engine design being flawed and point back to the fact the 911 is the winningest sports car of all time and has won across far more racing disciplines than anything else. There are some real advantages to the rear engine layout, braking and traction out of corners for example. You are right about the danger with a novice behind the wheel but a good driver can use that pendulum effect to his advantage Here’s a great video of a really good driver showing you how to drive a 911.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_YDSgRa1UI like how everyone thinks that a car with terrible handling characteristics makes it a good car. I like how you think the most prolific sports car of all time that’s been winning all kinds of races for almost 60 years has “terrible handling characteristics”. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:21:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like how you think the most prolific sports car of all time that’s been winning all kinds of races for almost 60 years has “terrible handling characteristics”. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Porsche has always kneecapped the Cayman/Boxster so the 911 would remain King. The mid engine design is more balanced, and is a better sports car design. If they put a bigger engine in the Cayman it would outperform the 911. But because they have never done that, and will never do that, the 911 is arguably "better". However, the rear engine design is flawed in a high performance sports car, especially for novice driver's who may panic and hit the brakes in high speed turns and throw the 911 into a spin. But they are both great cars, it's subjective. Personally, I'd rather have an air cooled 911 Targa. Initially they hamstrung the Cayman but the GTS 4.0 and GT4 changed that. I’m going to disagree about the rear engine design being flawed and point back to the fact the 911 is the winningest sports car of all time and has won across far more racing disciplines than anything else. There are some real advantages to the rear engine layout, braking and traction out of corners for example. You are right about the danger with a novice behind the wheel but a good driver can use that pendulum effect to his advantage Here’s a great video of a really good driver showing you how to drive a 911. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_YDSgRa1UI like how everyone thinks that a car with terrible handling characteristics makes it a good car. I like how you think the most prolific sports car of all time that’s been winning all kinds of races for almost 60 years has “terrible handling characteristics”. it does...I never said it wasn't fast...but it's handling characteristics are terrible. For example, a GT-R is probably the easiest car to drive fast as fuck on a track without being an actual real race car driver. Does what it's supposed to and doesn't try to kill you. The same can not be said for the 911. And if the 911 was that great of a car, they would be winning NASCAR!!!! |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:22:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My gayman spec I'm considering. Less gay since it's manual.  https://configurator.porsche.com/porsche-code/PRGX6182 I'd want to see that green metallic in person before ordering. But the blue metallic looks nice. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:24:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd want to see that green metallic in person before ordering. But the blue metallic looks nice. Yeah of course I'll see as much as I can first. It's between this and the blue. I've had a lot of blue cars. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:25:01 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm currently considering a cayman or boxster for my next car. I'd prefer the older flat 6 to the new turbo 4, but I need to test drive both to see if the 4 is as bad as I think it is.
It could only be SO bad. 911/etc is out of my price range, since I'm a humble civil servant/poor. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:27:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah of course I'll see as much as I can first. It's between this and the blue. I've had a lot of blue cars. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd want to see that green metallic in person before ordering. But the blue metallic looks nice. Yeah of course I'll see as much as I can first. It's between this and the blue. I've had a lot of blue cars. What the lead time on build to order? |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:27:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Cayman vs 911 and Why? I choose Cayman if I were a big spender. Edited for spelling. There is only one answer. 
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:29:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What the lead time on build to order? Hoping to find out tomorrow. My guy thinks they have a slot for GTS. If not, I'll get on the list and wait. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:39:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hoping to find out tomorrow. My guy thinks they have a slot for GTS. If not, I'll get on the list and wait. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What the lead time on build to order? Hoping to find out tomorrow. My guy thinks they have a slot for GTS. If not, I'll get on the list and wait. You picked a good one. GTS! Good luck! |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:43:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: it does...I never said it wasn't fast...but it's handling characteristics are terrible. For example, a GT-R is probably the easiest car to drive fast as fuck on a track without being an actual real race car driver. Does what it's supposed to and doesn't try to kill you. The same can not be said for the 911. And if the 911 was that great of a car, they would be winning NASCAR!!!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Porsche has always kneecapped the Cayman/Boxster so the 911 would remain King. The mid engine design is more balanced, and is a better sports car design. If they put a bigger engine in the Cayman it would outperform the 911. But because they have never done that, and will never do that, the 911 is arguably "better". However, the rear engine design is flawed in a high performance sports car, especially for novice driver's who may panic and hit the brakes in high speed turns and throw the 911 into a spin. But they are both great cars, it's subjective. Personally, I'd rather have an air cooled 911 Targa. Initially they hamstrung the Cayman but the GTS 4.0 and GT4 changed that. I’m going to disagree about the rear engine design being flawed and point back to the fact the 911 is the winningest sports car of all time and has won across far more racing disciplines than anything else. There are some real advantages to the rear engine layout, braking and traction out of corners for example. You are right about the danger with a novice behind the wheel but a good driver can use that pendulum effect to his advantage Here’s a great video of a really good driver showing you how to drive a 911. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_YDSgRa1UI like how everyone thinks that a car with terrible handling characteristics makes it a good car. I like how you think the most prolific sports car of all time that’s been winning all kinds of races for almost 60 years has “terrible handling characteristics”. it does...I never said it wasn't fast...but it's handling characteristics are terrible. For example, a GT-R is probably the easiest car to drive fast as fuck on a track without being an actual real race car driver. Does what it's supposed to and doesn't try to kill you. The same can not be said for the 911. And if the 911 was that great of a car, they would be winning NASCAR!!!! If it had terrible handling it wouldn’t be fast. A 992 GT3 mops the floor with a GTR and has less HP, must make up for it with terrible handling. The whole “trying to kill you” “widow maker” thing has been a myth since the late 60’s when they lengthened the wheelbase. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:46:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quit fucking around and just get an AMG SL This. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:46:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like how everyone thinks that a car with terrible handling characteristics makes it a good car. I have been club racing 911's on and off for the last 30 years. No way in hell I could come close to my own lap times driving something else. Porsche has won more races with the 911 than any other car manufacturer PERIOD. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:48:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You picked a good one. GTS! Good luck! Thank you! 
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Posted: 8/31/2023 12:25:07 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is Eurofag crap and you know it. I will get some better proganda than that hold on Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Manual or PDK? I'm a diehard manual guy, but I hear PDK is amazing. The only real reason manual was "better" in a sporty car in the past was because it allowed for faster shifting and more control than an automatic. The PDK shifts faster than a manual and it allows for more control. It is not an automatic - it is an improved manual, which gives you the option of letting the computer control it. So if you are all about nostalgia, and churn your own butter, and wish cars still had hand crank starters ... then by all means get a manual. But if you are getting a Porsche because you want to drive fast and have as much control over your driving experience as possible, then the choice should definitely be PDK. This is Eurofag crap and you know it. I will get some better proganda than that hold on I submit to you that you CANNOT have your opinion about 911s and at the same time hate the 911. It is logically inconsistent. I am guessing the reason you do not want to borrow my 911 for a day is that you fear that you would realize how superior the PDK is!  The Porsche engineers who design the 911 to be the best sports/racing car in the world have concluded that the PDK is a superior transmission and that it makes the 911 better, and essentially consider the manual transmission to be obsolete. Literally the ONLY reason they still offer the manual transmission in the 911 lineup is that they are happy to overcharge nostalgia-driven customers for an inferior car. If enough people wanted to overpay for an air-cooled 911 that couldn't go faster than 100 mph, Porsche would probably build it, but that wouldn't mean its a better 911 - it would just mean that Porsche likes making money. 
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Posted: 8/31/2023 12:28:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: it does...I never said it wasn't fast...but it's handling characteristics are terrible. For example, a GT-R is probably the easiest car to drive fast as fuck on a track without being an actual real race car driver. Does what it's supposed to and doesn't try to kill you. The same can not be said for the 911. And if the 911 was that great of a car, they would be winning NASCAR!!!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Porsche has always kneecapped the Cayman/Boxster so the 911 would remain King. The mid engine design is more balanced, and is a better sports car design. If they put a bigger engine in the Cayman it would outperform the 911. But because they have never done that, and will never do that, the 911 is arguably "better". However, the rear engine design is flawed in a high performance sports car, especially for novice driver's who may panic and hit the brakes in high speed turns and throw the 911 into a spin. But they are both great cars, it's subjective. Personally, I'd rather have an air cooled 911 Targa. Initially they hamstrung the Cayman but the GTS 4.0 and GT4 changed that. I’m going to disagree about the rear engine design being flawed and point back to the fact the 911 is the winningest sports car of all time and has won across far more racing disciplines than anything else. There are some real advantages to the rear engine layout, braking and traction out of corners for example. You are right about the danger with a novice behind the wheel but a good driver can use that pendulum effect to his advantage Here’s a great video of a really good driver showing you how to drive a 911. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_YDSgRa1UI like how everyone thinks that a car with terrible handling characteristics makes it a good car. I like how you think the most prolific sports car of all time that’s been winning all kinds of races for almost 60 years has “terrible handling characteristics”. it does...I never said it wasn't fast...but it's handling characteristics are terrible. For example, a GT-R is probably the easiest car to drive fast as fuck on a track without being an actual real race car driver. Does what it's supposed to and doesn't try to kill you. The same can not be said for the 911. And if the 911 was that great of a car, they would be winning NASCAR!!!! That's just lazy trolling. We all know you can do better. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 12:30:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I submit to you that you CANNOT have your opinion about 911s and at the same time hate the 911. It is logically inconsistent. I am guessing the reason you do not want to borrow my 911 for a day is that you fear that you would realize how superior the PDK is! The Porsche engineers who design the 911 to be the best sports/racing car in the world have concluded that the PDK is a superior transmission and that it makes the 911 better, and essentially consider the manual transmission to be obsolete. Literally the ONLY reason they still offer the manual transmission in the 911 lineup is that they are happy to overcharge nostalgia-driven customers for an inferior car. If enough people wanted to overpay for an air-cooled 911 that couldn't go faster than 100 mph, Porsche would probably build it, but that wouldn't mean its a better 911 - it would just mean that Porsche likes making money. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Manual or PDK? I'm a diehard manual guy, but I hear PDK is amazing. The only real reason manual was "better" in a sporty car in the past was because it allowed for faster shifting and more control than an automatic. The PDK shifts faster than a manual and it allows for more control. It is not an automatic - it is an improved manual, which gives you the option of letting the computer control it. So if you are all about nostalgia, and churn your own butter, and wish cars still had hand crank starters ... then by all means get a manual. But if you are getting a Porsche because you want to drive fast and have as much control over your driving experience as possible, then the choice should definitely be PDK. This is Eurofag crap and you know it. I will get some better proganda than that hold on I submit to you that you CANNOT have your opinion about 911s and at the same time hate the 911. It is logically inconsistent. I am guessing the reason you do not want to borrow my 911 for a day is that you fear that you would realize how superior the PDK is! The Porsche engineers who design the 911 to be the best sports/racing car in the world have concluded that the PDK is a superior transmission and that it makes the 911 better, and essentially consider the manual transmission to be obsolete. Literally the ONLY reason they still offer the manual transmission in the 911 lineup is that they are happy to overcharge nostalgia-driven customers for an inferior car. If enough people wanted to overpay for an air-cooled 911 that couldn't go faster than 100 mph, Porsche would probably build it, but that wouldn't mean its a better 911 - it would just mean that Porsche likes making money. They did but called it the 912. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 12:48:21 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If enough people wanted to overpay for an air-cooled 911 that couldn't go faster than 100 mph, Porsche would probably build it, Singer is rebuilding them for 500K, with a long waiting list.  Attached FileAlso an air cooled 98 turbo S is twice as fast as 100MPH. Factory publishes 184mph but I had one up to 200 in stock form. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:27:34 AM EDT
[#18]
I'd just get a 356 , 2.4 liter , vvt on pushrods , 5-speed subaru transaxle , carb cheater . Keep it simple and light .
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Posted: 8/31/2023 8:23:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Coming from a 392 Charger......They weigh too much & all that massive power SUCKS getting to the ground. Quote HistoryQuoted: Wanna real muscle car? Get a Dodge SRT Challenger - a Hellcat or a 392. Coming from a 392 Charger......They weigh too much & all that massive power SUCKS getting to the ground. To some extent that’s true … My buddy’s 2020 Charger Hellcat weighed 4500+lbs. But that’s a 4-dr sedan. REAL muscle cars were, historically, 2-dr coupes. In fact during the first muscle car era (circa ‘68-‘73) a Dodge Charger was a 2-dr ride. As far as weight per se, it’s actually a benefit. When I hit 151mph in my Challenger Hellcat, all its 4400lbs of weight kept it glued to the road against the downforce. Another buddy’s got a cute little Lotus. That leaf would’ve gone airborne at that speed or even at much less speed if any sudden cross-wind had hit it. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 8:53:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To some extent that’s true … My buddy’s 2020 Charger Hellcat weighed 4500+lbs. But that’s a 4-dr sedan. REAL muscle cars were, historically, 2-dr coupes. In fact during the first muscle car era (circa ‘68-‘73) a Dodge Charger was a 2-dr ride. As far as weight per se, it’s actually a benefit. When I hit 151mph in my Challenger Hellcat, all its 4400lbs of weight kept it glued to the road against the downforce. Another buddy’s got a cute little Lotus. That leaf would’ve gone airborne at that speed or even at much less speed if any sudden cross-wind had hit it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wanna real muscle car? Get a Dodge SRT Challenger - a Hellcat or a 392. Coming from a 392 Charger......They weigh too much & all that massive power SUCKS getting to the ground. To some extent that’s true … My buddy’s 2020 Charger Hellcat weighed 4500+lbs. But that’s a 4-dr sedan. REAL muscle cars were, historically, 2-dr coupes. In fact during the first muscle car era (circa ‘68-‘73) a Dodge Charger was a 2-dr ride. As far as weight per se, it’s actually a benefit. When I hit 151mph in my Challenger Hellcat, all its 4400lbs of weight kept it glued to the road against the downforce. Another buddy’s got a cute little Lotus. That leaf would’ve gone airborne at that speed or even at much less speed if any sudden cross-wind had hit it. 
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Posted: 8/31/2023 9:03:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Cayman vs 911
Camaro vs Corvette Challenger vs Viper |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 9:06:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's just lazy trolling. We all know you can do better. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Porsche has always kneecapped the Cayman/Boxster so the 911 would remain King. The mid engine design is more balanced, and is a better sports car design. If they put a bigger engine in the Cayman it would outperform the 911. But because they have never done that, and will never do that, the 911 is arguably "better". However, the rear engine design is flawed in a high performance sports car, especially for novice driver's who may panic and hit the brakes in high speed turns and throw the 911 into a spin. But they are both great cars, it's subjective. Personally, I'd rather have an air cooled 911 Targa. Initially they hamstrung the Cayman but the GTS 4.0 and GT4 changed that. I’m going to disagree about the rear engine design being flawed and point back to the fact the 911 is the winningest sports car of all time and has won across far more racing disciplines than anything else. There are some real advantages to the rear engine layout, braking and traction out of corners for example. You are right about the danger with a novice behind the wheel but a good driver can use that pendulum effect to his advantage Here’s a great video of a really good driver showing you how to drive a 911. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_YDSgRa1UI like how everyone thinks that a car with terrible handling characteristics makes it a good car. I like how you think the most prolific sports car of all time that’s been winning all kinds of races for almost 60 years has “terrible handling characteristics”. it does...I never said it wasn't fast...but it's handling characteristics are terrible. For example, a GT-R is probably the easiest car to drive fast as fuck on a track without being an actual real race car driver. Does what it's supposed to and doesn't try to kill you. The same can not be said for the 911. And if the 911 was that great of a car, they would be winning NASCAR!!!! That's just lazy trolling. We all know you can do better. seriously though speaking of the Porsche tax Is it me or the parts more expensive just to be more expsnvie? I was looking at clutches for 996 and 991s, and they seemed expensive for somthing that isn't anything special. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 9:09:02 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Manual or PDK? I'm a diehard manual guy, but I hear PDK is amazing. Trust. Me. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 9:11:51 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: PDK. Trust. Me. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 9:23:09 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To some extent that’s true … My buddy’s 2020 Charger Hellcat weighed 4500+lbs. But that’s a 4-dr sedan. REAL muscle cars were, historically, 2-dr coupes. In fact during the first muscle car era (circa ‘68-‘73) a Dodge Charger was a 2-dr ride. As far as weight per se, it’s actually a benefit. When I hit 151mph in my Challenger Hellcat, all its 4400lbs of weight kept it glued to the road against the downforce. Another buddy’s got a cute little Lotus. That leaf would’ve gone airborne at that speed or even at much less speed if any sudden cross-wind had hit it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wanna real muscle car? Get a Dodge SRT Challenger - a Hellcat or a 392. Coming from a 392 Charger......They weigh too much & all that massive power SUCKS getting to the ground. To some extent that’s true … My buddy’s 2020 Charger Hellcat weighed 4500+lbs. But that’s a 4-dr sedan. REAL muscle cars were, historically, 2-dr coupes. In fact during the first muscle car era (circa ‘68-‘73) a Dodge Charger was a 2-dr ride. As far as weight per se, it’s actually a benefit. When I hit 151mph in my Challenger Hellcat, all its 4400lbs of weight kept it glued to the road against the downforce. Another buddy’s got a cute little Lotus. That leaf would’ve gone airborne at that speed or even at much less speed if any sudden cross-wind had hit it. No it isn’t. Weight is the enemy of performance. You are comparing apples to oranges. Muscle cars were designed to be fast in a straight line, Porsches are designed to be fast everywhere. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 9:49:00 AM EDT
[#26]
The 911 has grown too large. The cayman is closer to the size a 911 should be.
The last 911 I owned was an SC. I had the urge to build it in to a safari tribute. It was too nice of a car for that so I sold it. I'm still planning on buying a chassis better suited for the conversion. The air cooled 911 market being what it is, I haven't found anything. Porsche introduced the Cayman. I bought one of those and still have it. That makes my answer to your question; short term is Cayman, long term its "get both." Just not a new 911, the car doesn't work for me. If you were only going to have one fun car or had track plans I can see chasing the new GT cars, 911 or Cayman. I have more than one fun car and my interests and priorities are likely different than most. I also like mid engine cars. If only the C8 was available with 3 pedals... |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 10:02:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cross-shopped the 911 and Cayman in 2014. I also did several PSDS courses so I got to learn how to race the Porsche lineup from Porsche professionals. My take:
Even with the 4 cyl base 718 engine? I'm in the market and looking at 718s and F-types. I think I'd have to get the 6 cyl 718 though. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 10:24:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They did but called it the 912. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Manual or PDK? I'm a diehard manual guy, but I hear PDK is amazing. The only real reason manual was "better" in a sporty car in the past was because it allowed for faster shifting and more control than an automatic. The PDK shifts faster than a manual and it allows for more control. It is not an automatic - it is an improved manual, which gives you the option of letting the computer control it. So if you are all about nostalgia, and churn your own butter, and wish cars still had hand crank starters ... then by all means get a manual. But if you are getting a Porsche because you want to drive fast and have as much control over your driving experience as possible, then the choice should definitely be PDK. This is Eurofag crap and you know it. I will get some better proganda than that hold on I submit to you that you CANNOT have your opinion about 911s and at the same time hate the 911. It is logically inconsistent. I am guessing the reason you do not want to borrow my 911 for a day is that you fear that you would realize how superior the PDK is! The Porsche engineers who design the 911 to be the best sports/racing car in the world have concluded that the PDK is a superior transmission and that it makes the 911 better, and essentially consider the manual transmission to be obsolete. Literally the ONLY reason they still offer the manual transmission in the 911 lineup is that they are happy to overcharge nostalgia-driven customers for an inferior car. If enough people wanted to overpay for an air-cooled 911 that couldn't go faster than 100 mph, Porsche would probably build it, but that wouldn't mean its a better 911 - it would just mean that Porsche likes making money. They did but called it the 912. A local car collector here has a number of Porsches and other makes. . . 54 Speedster, ‘89 Speedster, Ford GT, Ferrari, etc. His favorite car is the 912 and that’s the one he takes out the most on weekend drives. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 11:19:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A local car collector here has a number of Porsches and other makes. . . 54 Speedster, ‘89 Speedster, Ford GT, Ferrari, etc. His favorite car is the 912 and that’s the one he takes out the most on weekend drives. I posted yesterday(?) in the "Forgotten cars from the 70s/80s" thread about a pristine white 912 that was sitting outside the marina restaurant a few days ago. I wasn't familiar with that model, had to go home and look it up. Several articles used the word "cult" in talking about the current collectors, and I guess prices are starting to reflect. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 11:27:46 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I posted yesterday(?) in the "Forgotten cars from the 70s/80s" thread about a pristine white 912 that was sitting outside the marina restaurant a few days ago. I wasn't familiar with that model, had to go home and look it up. Several articles used the word "cult" in talking about the current collectors, and I guess prices are starting to reflect. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A local car collector here has a number of Porsches and other makes. . . 54 Speedster, ‘89 Speedster, Ford GT, Ferrari, etc. His favorite car is the 912 and that’s the one he takes out the most on weekend drives. I posted yesterday(?) in the "Forgotten cars from the 70s/80s" thread about a pristine white 912 that was sitting outside the marina restaurant a few days ago. I wasn't familiar with that model, had to go home and look it up. Several articles used the word "cult" in talking about the current collectors, and I guess prices are starting to reflect. We have a couple die hard 912 guys locally. I think the pricing is case of rising tides lifting all ships combined with the fact the fate of just about every 912 for decades was to be parted out to keep 911s on the road or have 6cyl engines dropped in the back. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 11:51:01 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have a couple die hard 912 guys locally. I think the pricing is case of rising tides lifting all ships combined with the fact the fate of just about every 912 for decades was to be parted out to keep 911s on the road or have 6cyl engines dropped in the back. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: A local car collector here has a number of Porsches and other makes. . . 54 Speedster, ‘89 Speedster, Ford GT, Ferrari, etc. His favorite car is the 912 and that’s the one he takes out the most on weekend drives. I posted yesterday(?) in the "Forgotten cars from the 70s/80s" thread about a pristine white 912 that was sitting outside the marina restaurant a few days ago. I wasn't familiar with that model, had to go home and look it up. Several articles used the word "cult" in talking about the current collectors, and I guess prices are starting to reflect. We have a couple die hard 912 guys locally. I think the pricing is case of rising tides lifting all ships combined with the fact the fate of just about every 912 for decades was to be parted out to keep 911s on the road or have 6cyl engines dropped in the back. Sorry for the slight derail. These cars were super cheap to buy 20 years ago. I would love a long hood. . .There’s definitely more room in the back of his 912 with two less cylinders:  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 11:59:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To some extent that’s true … My buddy’s 2020 Charger Hellcat weighed 4500+lbs. But that’s a 4-dr sedan. REAL muscle cars were, historically, 2-dr coupes. In fact during the first muscle car era (circa ‘68-‘73) a Dodge Charger was a 2-dr ride. As far as weight per se, it’s actually a benefit. When I hit 151mph in my Challenger Hellcat, all its 4400lbs of weight kept it glued to the road against the downforce. Another buddy’s got a cute little Lotus. That leaf would’ve gone airborne at that speed or even at much less speed if any sudden cross-wind had hit it. So much bullshit I can’t digest it all. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 12:04:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry for the slight derail. These cars were super cheap to buy 20 years ago. I would love a long hood. . .There’s definitely more room in the back of his 912 with two less cylinders: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/309803/IMG_2536_jpeg-2938315.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A local car collector here has a number of Porsches and other makes. . . 54 Speedster, ‘89 Speedster, Ford GT, Ferrari, etc. His favorite car is the 912 and that’s the one he takes out the most on weekend drives. I posted yesterday(?) in the "Forgotten cars from the 70s/80s" thread about a pristine white 912 that was sitting outside the marina restaurant a few days ago. I wasn't familiar with that model, had to go home and look it up. Several articles used the word "cult" in talking about the current collectors, and I guess prices are starting to reflect. We have a couple die hard 912 guys locally. I think the pricing is case of rising tides lifting all ships combined with the fact the fate of just about every 912 for decades was to be parted out to keep 911s on the road or have 6cyl engines dropped in the back. Sorry for the slight derail. These cars were super cheap to buy 20 years ago. I would love a long hood. . .There’s definitely more room in the back of his 912 with two less cylinders: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/309803/IMG_2536_jpeg-2938315.JPG It’s still by far the cheapest path to a short wheelbase 911. I’d be that asshole and put a 6cyl in the back though( unless I was rich then I’d go for a Polo 4cyl)  To stay on topic the 4cyl 718 is the natural successor to the 912. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 12:23:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 911 has grown too large. The cayman is closer to the size a 911 should be. That is a good point. The modern 911 is huge compared to old-school models. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 12:29:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a good point. The modern 911 is huge compared to old-school models. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The 911 has grown too large. The cayman is closer to the size a 911 should be. That is a good point. The modern 911 is huge compared to old-school models. All cars are too big now. The price you pay for safety and technology. 
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Posted: 8/31/2023 12:47:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Coming from a 392 Charger......They weigh too much & all that massive power SUCKS getting to the ground. not with 305 Michelin Pilot sports. My 392 puts it down pretty well. I think both cars are cool, not the same things though. Agree one is a muscle car and the other is a sports car. Both have their place in my heart. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 12:54:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not with 305 Michelin Pilot sports. My 392 puts it down pretty well. I think both cars are cool, not the same things though. Agree one is a muscle car and the other is a sports car. Both have their place in my heart. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Coming from a 392 Charger......They weigh too much & all that massive power SUCKS getting to the ground. not with 305 Michelin Pilot sports. My 392 puts it down pretty well. I think both cars are cool, not the same things though. Agree one is a muscle car and the other is a sports car. Both have their place in my heart. There is a reason no super cars or race cars use a front engine rear drive layout anymore. Even GM saw the light with the C8 Corvette and rumor has it the Mustang may go mid engine and that’s a lowly secretary’s car. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:00:00 PM EDT
[#38]
another thing I really don't understand is why air cooled 911 engines are so expensive to make big power?
the only thing I can see is taking the heat out the engine, and if that's the biggest issue...fuck...just add giant oil coolers and extra oil capacity. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:01:08 PM EDT
[#39]
For the experts here: if I wanted a 911 to buy used for a short work commute (approx 10 miles each way) and weekends- what years to look for and not spend a ton. I have a great independent shop for German car maintenance. Thanks.
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:09:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the experts here: if I wanted a 911 to buy used for a short work commute (approx 10 miles each way) and weekends- what years to look for and not spend a ton. I have a great independent shop for German car maintenance. Thanks. I’m far from an expert but were you looking for an air cooled 911? I’d look for a ‘78-‘83 911SC Coupe with a 3.0L and 915 transmission that has had the head studs replaced. A step up would be ‘84-‘86 3.2L Carrera. The ‘86 was the last year of the 915 transmission. For an impact bumper G-body with the G50 transmission, that’d be ‘87-‘89 and those bring a premium. G50’s were used for the 964 and 993 but those have become ridiculously expensive for clean examples. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:18:10 PM EDT
[#41]
There is no question that the 911 is an exceptional car but they look like a kid's toy. The front end especially is god awful.
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:22:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a reason no super cars or race cars use a front engine rear drive layout anymore. Even GM saw the light with the C8 Corvette and rumor has it the Mustang may go mid engine and that’s a lowly secretary’s car. agree, and I've been window shopping Caymans. I still love driving my boat though.  |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:29:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no question that the 911 is an exceptional car but they look like a kid's toy. The front end especially is god awful. Hmmmm, I’m not sure what you mean by a god awful front end. Through ‘89, they used bushings and torsion bars ran through the control arms. A common upgrade was Turbo tie rods which eliminated some of the play. The brakes were always fantastic. Driving a well sorted, torsion bar equipped 911 is a lot of fun. Elephant Racing makes many aftermarket suspension upgrades if that’s what you’re after. Coilovers were introduced in the 964 in ‘90 which was a departure in what they had been using for decades. A friend of mine is restomodding a ‘72 from the ground up. It’ll have a 3.6L motor with 915 trans. He’s putting KW Suspension coilovers in. That car is going to be incredible when it’s done. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:58:43 PM EDT
[#44]
 Guentherworks, ahhhh yes. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 2:06:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Thanks!
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Posted: 8/31/2023 2:18:58 PM EDT
[#46]
How much do you Porsche aficionado’s earn?
Arfcom has a way of making me feel poor. 
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Posted: 8/31/2023 2:19:57 PM EDT
[#47]
I think my air-cooled is pretty cool. If I were to buy a late model today, given a budget, it would be a 718 GTS 4.0 or (my first choice) 992 911T w/manual.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 2:25:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like how you think the most prolific sports car of all time that’s been winning all kinds of races for almost 60 years has “terrible handling characteristics”. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Porsche has always kneecapped the Cayman/Boxster so the 911 would remain King. The mid engine design is more balanced, and is a better sports car design. If they put a bigger engine in the Cayman it would outperform the 911. But because they have never done that, and will never do that, the 911 is arguably "better". However, the rear engine design is flawed in a high performance sports car, especially for novice driver's who may panic and hit the brakes in high speed turns and throw the 911 into a spin. But they are both great cars, it's subjective. Personally, I'd rather have an air cooled 911 Targa. Initially they hamstrung the Cayman but the GTS 4.0 and GT4 changed that. I’m going to disagree about the rear engine design being flawed and point back to the fact the 911 is the winningest sports car of all time and has won across far more racing disciplines than anything else. There are some real advantages to the rear engine layout, braking and traction out of corners for example. You are right about the danger with a novice behind the wheel but a good driver can use that pendulum effect to his advantage Here’s a great video of a really good driver showing you how to drive a 911. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_YDSgRa1UI like how everyone thinks that a car with terrible handling characteristics makes it a good car. I like how you think the most prolific sports car of all time that’s been winning all kinds of races for almost 60 years has “terrible handling characteristics”. Midcap thinks Fat chicks have good handling characteristics.. sooo, I’m not sure his opinion on “handling characteristics” has a lot of validity? 
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Posted: 8/31/2023 2:31:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, but also You think Fat chicks have good handling characteristics.. sooo, I’m not sure your opinion on “handling characteristics” has a lot of validity? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Porsche has always kneecapped the Cayman/Boxster so the 911 would remain King. The mid engine design is more balanced, and is a better sports car design. If they put a bigger engine in the Cayman it would outperform the 911. But because they have never done that, and will never do that, the 911 is arguably "better". However, the rear engine design is flawed in a high performance sports car, especially for novice driver's who may panic and hit the brakes in high speed turns and throw the 911 into a spin. But they are both great cars, it's subjective. Personally, I'd rather have an air cooled 911 Targa. Initially they hamstrung the Cayman but the GTS 4.0 and GT4 changed that. I’m going to disagree about the rear engine design being flawed and point back to the fact the 911 is the winningest sports car of all time and has won across far more racing disciplines than anything else. There are some real advantages to the rear engine layout, braking and traction out of corners for example. You are right about the danger with a novice behind the wheel but a good driver can use that pendulum effect to his advantage Here’s a great video of a really good driver showing you how to drive a 911. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q_YDSgRa1UI like how everyone thinks that a car with terrible handling characteristics makes it a good car. I like how you think the most prolific sports car of all time that’s been winning all kinds of races for almost 60 years has “terrible handling characteristics”. Yeah, but also You think Fat chicks have good handling characteristics.. sooo, I’m not sure your opinion on “handling characteristics” has a lot of validity? I don’t think a Midcap sized woman could fit in a 911 to be perfectly honest. It’s a moot point. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 2:38:35 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOrder placed |
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