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Posted: 7/23/2011 7:52:28 PM EST
If someone built a modern reproduction of one would you buy one?
here's a pic of a T20 ( Garand with BAR mag for reference) 
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Posted: 7/23/2011 7:54:08 PM EST
[#1]
If it was reasonably priced, hell freakin yeah I would!
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Posted: 7/23/2011 7:56:52 PM EST
[#2]
I'll pass. I'm not a hater, but the Garand doesn't excite me all that much. It's neat for historic purposes, but there are lots of other rifles I'd like to have instead.
Also- based on what I've seen battered Garands selling for, I imagine that would cost about $4k  -more than I'd be willing to pay for sure.
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Posted: 7/23/2011 7:59:33 PM EST
[#3]
You mean a BM59?
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:03:01 PM EST
[#4]
Depends on price point. If made for the same price, or more, than an M1A and I'll buy the M1A.
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:08:19 PM EST
[#5]
Yes. I've been wanting one for years. Springfield Armory National Historic Site will not let you blueprint the one they have.
The Armory had trouble with reliable feeding when fired in the full automatic mode. The bolt moved too quick for the magazine spring to push a fresh cartridge up. Garand's solution was to lengthen the receiver by 1/4" to allow for more rearward travel and this would give the magazine spring enough time to get the next cartridge ready. This was rejected by the Army since it would introduce a new receiver into the logistical train. The same reason was cited for not modifying the BAR magazine with a stronger spring. The best solution came from Illion where the Remington engineers put an impeder into the op-rod spring, slowing the return ejection (and rearward movement of the bolt) enough for the magazine to do its job. Unfortunately, the Army for some reason didn't want the Remington solution either. The trouble with a lot of gunsmith modifications is that to fit the BAR magazine, so much metal is removed from the receiver that it substantially weakens it. That's why it's important to examine the actual gun at Springfield Armory to learn how they modified the receiver without compromising its strength. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:10:21 PM EST
[#6]
Quoted:
If someone built a modern reproduction of one would you buy one? here's a pic of a T20 ( Garand with BAR mag for reference) http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2W3Zu51Sj68/TY_5qEa6GAI/AAAAAAAAABc/HdhUszCdzRg/s1600/t20_8ld3fj9a.jpg It didn't work very well back then, it has been tried since and didn't work well on that go around either. The BAR magazine isn't optimized for the timing of the M1. A new magazine design would have to be incorporated and at todays pricing for R&D the end result consumer cost would be too damn high to sell enough to justify the trouble, |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:11:19 PM EST
[#7]
Saw someone at the NRA convention that makes one in 30-06 that takes BAR mags. Can't remember the company though.
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:14:15 PM EST
[#8]
Quoted:
I'll pass. I'm not a hater, but the Garand doesn't excite me all that much. It's neat for historic purposes, but there are lots of other rifles I'd like to have instead. Also- based on what I've seen battered Garands selling for, I imagine that would cost about $4k -more than I'd be willing to pay for sure. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:15:57 PM EST
[#9]
I think its cool, but I can't really see a use for it.
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:16:17 PM EST
[#10]
Quoted:
Saw someone at the NRA convention that makes one in 30-06 that takes BAR mags. Can't remember the company though. There's a similar thread at THR on a detachable magazine Garand. Link From it I learned of a 15 shot detachable magazine Garand achieved with a modified trigger housing by Crawford County Armory. Link II |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:19:10 PM EST
[#11]
Quoted:
You mean a BM59? This is what I think every time this subject (or laments of the lack of a detachable mag Garand) come up. Is the BM59 just that obscure? |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:20:39 PM EST
[#12]
If you want one, call Tim Shufflin.
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:21:12 PM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You mean a BM59? This is what I think every time this subject (or laments of the lack of a detachable mag Garand) come up. Is the BM59 just that obscure? Sarco even has the parts kits for the BM-59E, i.e. the Garand converted to .308 with the box mag but otherwise in the same configuration. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:25:47 PM EST
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You mean a BM59? This is what I think every time this subject (or laments of the lack of a detachable mag Garand) come up. Is the BM59 just that obscure? BM59 is chambered in 7.62x51 though, I'd be interested in 30-06 granted I already have a H&R Garand and a M1A, still I think the concept would be pretty cool |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 8:33:22 PM EST
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You mean a BM59? This is what I think every time this subject (or laments of the lack of a detachable mag Garand) come up. Is the BM59 just that obscure? BM59 is chambered in 7.62x51 though, I'd be interested in 30-06 granted I already have a H&R Garand and a M1A, still I think the concept would be pretty cool That must be the reason. I keep "forgetting" that it was a 7.62x51 gun. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:25:24 PM EST
[#16]
Price / Caliber ?
I'd consider it if they were the same price as the Garands available from CMP currently ... meaning surplus. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:35:25 PM EST
[#17]
its cool but what does it do that the M1A dosent?
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:37:10 PM EST
[#18]
Quoted:
its cool but what does it do that the M1A dosent? pretty much absolutely nothing, except 20rds of 30-06 |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:38:44 PM EST
[#19]
Still has the whole thumb issue.
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:38:46 PM EST
[#20]
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:40:26 PM EST
[#21]
Double Tap
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:41:16 PM EST
[#22]
I have a 30-06 beretta garand that uses 20 round BAR mags.
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:43:27 PM EST
[#23]
Quoted:
I have a 30-06 beretta garand that uses 20 round BAR mags. how do you like it? |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:46:16 PM EST
[#24]
If there was a conversion that wasn't rape I would get one of mine done.
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:47:23 PM EST
[#25]
Quoted:
I have a 30-06 beretta garand that uses 20 round BAR mags. pics? |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:47:59 PM EST
[#26]
One in the kind of quality that I would expect, would probably be priced higher that I'd be willing to pay for it.
While probably out of my range for now, it would be nice to have them out there. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:48:11 PM EST
[#27]
Quoted: Still has the whole thumb issue. Only for dumbasses that don't know how to do it right. Then again, I'm still trying to figure out why you would have your thumb in the way of the bolt while using a detachable magazine. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:52:55 PM EST
[#28]
Quoted:
Yes. I've been wanting one for years. Springfield Armory National Historic Site will not let you blueprint the one they have. The Armory had trouble with reliable feeding when fired in the full automatic mode. The bolt moved too quick for the magazine spring to push a fresh cartridge up. Garand's solution was to lengthen the receiver by 1/4" to allow for more rearward travel and this would give the magazine spring enough time to get the next cartridge ready. This was rejected by the Army since it would introduce a new receiver into the logistical train. The same reason was cited for not modifying the BAR magazine with a stronger spring. The best solution came from Illion where the Remington engineers put an impeder into the op-rod spring, slowing the return ejection (and rearward movement of the bolt) enough for the magazine to do its job. Unfortunately, the Army for some reason didn't want the Remington solution either. The trouble with a lot of gunsmith modifications is that to fit the BAR magazine, so much metal is removed from the receiver that it substantially weakens it. That's why it's important to examine the actual gun at Springfield Armory to learn how they modified the receiver without compromising its strength. The wikipedia article (I know, I know) mentions that T20E2 mags fit in the BAR, but BAR mags wouldn't fit the T20E2. If that's accurate, it could explain how they managed it, and does make a quirky kind of sense. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 9:59:44 PM EST
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Still has the whole thumb issue. Only for dumbasses that don't know how to do it right. Then again, I'm still trying to figure out why you would have your thumb in the way of the bolt while using a detachable magazine. Charger guide like the BM-59's or M-14's except for Springfield chargers? Outside of that I got nothin'. |
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Posted: 7/23/2011 10:45:39 PM EST
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a 30-06 beretta garand that uses 20 round BAR mags. pics? Mine works fine. It has a 3 digit serial number. I don't know if that means anything. I was told that it was altered in the US by a company back in the early 70's. 
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Posted: 7/23/2011 11:12:16 PM EST
[#31]
So that's why we can't get the Korean garands.
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Posted: 7/24/2011 12:59:33 PM EST
[#32]
Thanks Arashi for the pics. It appears that the guide ribs have been machined down and the trigger unit modified to take a magazine release paddle. Can you dissemble and it post-pics?
Please pay particular attention to the receiver where the magazine reaches the top. I'd like to know how much metal was machined off. BTW, I'm envious. |
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Posted: 7/24/2011 9:33:20 PM EST
[#33]
OK, I took a normal HRA Garand and the Beretta apart to compare and take pics.
Some material below the right locking lug area and some of the right, middle of the bolt has also been removed to allow the bolt to rotate and not hit the magazine. None of the locking lug areas have been altered. BAR Garand 
Normal Garand 
BAR Garand 
M1A for comparison (they have magazine cuts like the Beretta) 
Here is a link to the rest of the pics: https://picasaweb.google.com/aramail/20rndGarand?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPr29rD_-pubEg&feat=directlink |
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Posted: 7/24/2011 9:35:58 PM EST
[#34]
Quoted:
Yes. I've been wanting one for years. Springfield Armory National Historic Site will not let you blueprint the one they have. The Armory had trouble with reliable feeding when fired in the full automatic mode. The bolt moved too quick for the magazine spring to push a fresh cartridge up. Garand's solution was to lengthen the receiver by 1/4" to allow for more rearward travel and this would give the magazine spring enough time to get the next cartridge ready. This was rejected by the Army since it would introduce a new receiver into the logistical train. The same reason was cited for not modifying the BAR magazine with a stronger spring. The best solution came from Illion where the Remington engineers put an impeder into the op-rod spring, slowing the return ejection (and rearward movement of the bolt) enough for the magazine to do its job. Unfortunately, the Army for some reason didn't want the Remington solution either. The trouble with a lot of gunsmith modifications is that to fit the BAR magazine, so much metal is removed from the receiver that it substantially weakens it. That's why it's important to examine the actual gun at Springfield Armory to learn how they modified the receiver without compromising its strength. The M1's receiver is pretty open on the bottom. What would they have to remove to add a detachable box magazine? 
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Posted: 7/24/2011 9:39:43 PM EST
[#35]
Tagscribed.
Very interested in this. |
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Posted: 7/25/2011 4:51:34 AM EST
[#36]
Thanks Arashi - the trigger housing has also been modified, hasn't it? I suppose they cut away the metal from the bottom of the housing to make space for the BAR magazine. Is the magazine release on the BAR exactly like the one on the M-14?
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Posted: 7/25/2011 4:59:35 AM EST
[#37]
I'd buy one in a heart beat.
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Posted: 7/25/2011 5:14:46 AM EST
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a 30-06 beretta garand that uses 20 round BAR mags. pics? Mine works fine. It has a 3 digit serial number. I don't know if that means anything. I was told that it was altered in the US by a company back in the early 70's. http://i52.tinypic.com/eq3w5t.jpg http://i56.tinypic.com/qxuz4n.jpg http://i53.tinypic.com/nlahjr.jpg I am going to have to buy another CMP Garand and find someone who can make one of those! |
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Posted: 7/25/2011 5:26:32 AM EST
[#39]
Arashi - can you remove the trigger housing and take pictures of how the magazine release has been set up? If you have calipers, can you take measurements of the receiver? How far down from the top is the receiver cut and how thin are the clip guides?
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Posted: 7/25/2011 5:40:58 AM EST
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a 30-06 beretta garand that uses 20 round BAR mags. pics? Mine works fine. It has a 3 digit serial number. I was told that it was altered in the US by a company back in the early 70's. It's a guess but I'm thinking Valley Ordnance Co. (Wilkes-Barre, PA) could have done this conversion. |
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Posted: 7/25/2011 5:43:11 AM EST
[#41]
So it's a .30-06 M14?
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Posted: 7/25/2011 5:52:17 AM EST
[#42]
Quoted:
So it's a .30-06 M14? No, it's a Garand that takes a BAR magazine. |
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Posted: 7/25/2011 5:54:05 AM EST
[#43]
If I had that I'd rub myself with bacon and go into the woods trolling for grizzly bears
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Posted: 7/25/2011 6:00:50 AM EST
[#44]
Count me in for the group buy....
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Posted: 7/25/2011 6:19:51 AM EST
[#45]
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
They modified a motherfucking Garand and ARFtards are ok with it? I mean, we're talking about a rifle designed by fucking Jesus Christ himself here.  |
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Posted: 7/25/2011 6:21:00 AM EST
[#46]
Quoted:
You mean a BM59? This...It's been done. Heck, now that some here won't by Italian weapons anymore I guess the BM is a non-starter to bring back into production. Butt-hurt and all I suspect it would be a good seller if the price-point was less than a M1A.. |
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Posted: 7/25/2011 6:46:05 AM EST
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If someone built a modern reproduction of one would you buy one? here's a pic of a T20 ( Garand with BAR mag for reference) http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2W3Zu51Sj68/TY_5qEa6GAI/AAAAAAAAABc/HdhUszCdzRg/s1600/t20_8ld3fj9a.jpg It didn't work very well back then, it has been tried since and didn't work well on that go around either. The BAR magazine isn't optimized for the timing of the M1. A new magazine design would have to be incorporated and at todays pricing for R&D the end result consumer cost would be too damn high to sell enough to justify the trouble, Is the weak spring a problem with semi-auto fire? |
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Posted: 7/25/2011 6:46:49 AM EST
[#48]
I used to have a tanker Garand in .308 with a BM59 kit on it. It was built on a reweld receiver and would never run right. After I traded it off, I found out that it really did need BM59 magazines instead of the M14 mags it came with. I bought it for a good price and got a great trade for it so I never regretted the decision to get rid of it. I would someday like to get another. So the answer would be yes.
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Posted: 7/25/2011 6:49:39 AM EST
[#49]
Quoted:
I have a 30-06 beretta garand that uses 20 round BAR mags. So, there were two versions of the BM-59? The BM-59 was 30-06 and the BM-59e was 7.62x51? |
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Posted: 7/25/2011 7:19:08 AM EST
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If someone built a modern reproduction of one would you buy one? here's a pic of a T20 ( Garand with BAR mag for reference) http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2W3Zu51Sj68/TY_5qEa6GAI/AAAAAAAAABc/HdhUszCdzRg/s1600/t20_8ld3fj9a.jpg It didn't work very well back then, it has been tried since and didn't work well on that go around either. The BAR magazine isn't optimized for the timing of the M1. A new magazine design would have to be incorporated and at todays pricing for R&D the end result consumer cost would be too damn high to sell enough to justify the trouble, Is the weak spring a problem with semi-auto fire? Feeding problems only arose when the Army attempted to convert the Garand to selective fire. The magazine spring wasn't strong enough for the Garand's light bolt. That's why Garand wanted to lengthen the receiver to give it more travel and thus more time to pick up a fresh cartridge. It won't be a problem with the semi-auto that we're talking about here. |
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