User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:27:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just a reminder that the land cruiser is the master race in the US. (i said the US for the Hilux guys i see you). It's shaping up to be a bit of a hierarchy, with the 4Runner likely being the most budget option and the GX550 giving you the most if you can pay for it, with some overlap in between. Not that I'm sitting here wishing for less things, but I'd hope there would be some sort of difference between the Land Cruiser and the 4Runner other than the rear window goes down. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:29:21 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD's idea of "towing" involves goosenecks, 30' campers, etc lol. For 98% of people, the 5k capability of the T4R is all most will ever need. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, towing has never been the 4Runner’s strong suit. It's a question of needs and expectations. Towing is a primary reason I chose the 4Runner and its body on frame architecture. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/257918/IMG_9585-3161854.jpg That trailer has a 3k GVWR. I routinely put 1,000-1,500 pounds on it, and I've overloaded it a time or two. The 4R handles it well (that's only 60% of the vehicle's rated capacity), and it will most likely do so for years and years until it loses the battle against oxidation. I realize those are modest numbers compared to modern truck marketing standards, but I don't have a skid steer, cattle, or a tandem axle travel trailer. A 15k+ towing capacity does nothing for me, at least until something changes in my life. Quoted: Makes sense as that’s not the class of vehicles I would chose if towing was a priority. I think all of those midsize trucks are rated to tow 7k+ these days. For a lot of people, that's plenty. GD's idea of "towing" involves goosenecks, 30' campers, etc lol. For 98% of people, the 5k capability of the T4R is all most will ever need. Big trucks are cool and fun to play with, and towing can be pretty fun, too. Thing is, I'm in no hurry to take my own money and buy a $65k+ truck that gets 12 MPG unloaded or to spend $10k on a trailer unless I'm getting paid to do so. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:32:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hope my gen 5 doesn't take too much of a value hit in the next 6 months, thinking about getting rid of it even though I've only had it for a year. Probably the opposite once pricing drops on the 6th gen. The tacoma pricing has not been received well in the taco community. Lots of "what do I need to plan for to take this to 200/300k vs buying a new one" threads out there. Oddly enough demand is higher on the 12-15 trims (again with 4.0) than 16-17 models, at least locally and amongst folks I know in the market looking for a new base to build on. I know more buying before the turnover vs wanting the new model. The 1GR-FE is a beast, runs forever, and has like a billion miles on it globally. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:34:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The GX550 (LC250) is 83.22" wide (no idea if that is including mirrors extended)... To put that in perspective, a 2024 F150 is 79.9" wide, 95" wide with standard mirrors extended (that number seems fucky). A 2024 Taco is (depending on model) 76.9/77.9/80.1 (the latter being the Pro). I used self-checkout at Target yesterday, so my expert opinion is that the next Gen 4R will follow the Taco width. I tried to dig through some dimensions, nothing out there about the new 4r obviously. I found similar answers, the new LC is 2” longer but 10” wider than the current 4r. Theres no way that’s track width, so mirrors? 2 different measurements? With the small LC/GX, the Sequoia being less minivan, the new 4r somewhere in the low end, seems like a very crowded space. We have a ‘23 Tundra Platinum. The big screen is great and turns off easily. I like the 3 window CarPlay screen, works well. There are physical buttons for nearly everything, I wish the steering heels buttons were more intuitive but I’m spoiled by current Benz stuff. I bought our LR4 to have a “small” suv with a 3rd row when needed and power. I haven’t driven any of the new i4 turbo trucks, seriously considering waiting for a LC or bailing and buying an older G500. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:35:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? they are more powerful, more efficient and get better gas mileage. also, the larger screen is fucking awesome. stop hating things that i like! One of the primary reasons people buy 4runners is reliability. Turbos add complication and possibly reduce reliability. Same reason that I don't want start-stop and a bunch of other safety/convenience/tech features. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:36:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 5th gen has always had speakers on the interior of the back hatch. I believe TZLVredmist was referring to the area on either side of the Toyota logo with the odd texture. Seems like an odd place to add a different texture. That area wouldn't normally be used to open or close the hatch. @jafrush speculated party mode is coming back |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:36:49 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's shaping up to be a bit of a hierarchy, with the 4Runner likely being the most budget option and the GX550 giving you the most if you can pay for it, with some overlap in between. Not that I'm sitting here wishing for less things, but I'd hope there would be some sort of difference between the Land Cruiser and the 4Runner other than the rear window goes down. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just a reminder that the land cruiser is the master race in the US. (i said the US for the Hilux guys i see you). It's shaping up to be a bit of a hierarchy, with the 4Runner likely being the most budget option and the GX550 giving you the most if you can pay for it, with some overlap in between. Not that I'm sitting here wishing for less things, but I'd hope there would be some sort of difference between the Land Cruiser and the 4Runner other than the rear window goes down. Given the similarities in Platform, Powertrains and shared Systems, differentiation will primarily be packaging (size and seats), features and quality of appointments. Same thing VAGs been doing for years (ie Tuareg, Audi Q, Cayenne, Bentley, Urus - but a more proletarian adaptation) |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:37:15 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you press and hold you can open and close the rear window with the buttons, too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My 2020 has a speaker in the back hatch (I think) and the buttons are for lock and unlock while the FOB is on you. You can also just grab the hatch and it will unlock similar to the front doors unlocking when it senses the FOB. If you press and hold you can open and close the rear window with the buttons, too. I learned something new today, thank you. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:38:07 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just a reminder that the land cruiser is the master race in the US. (i said the US for the Hilux guys i see you). And the last one you can get is a 200. We are getting a rebadged Prado and not the 300. I blame the Sequoia and the need to compete with the Tahoe / Armada. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:38:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably the opposite once pricing drops on the 6th gen. The tacoma pricing has not been received well in the taco community. Lots of "what do I need to plan for to take this to 200/300k vs buying a new one" threads out there. Oddly enough demand is higher on the 12-15 trims (again with 4.0) that 16-17 models, at least locally and amongst folks I know in the market looking for a new base to build on. I know more buying before the turnover vs wanting the new model. The 1GR-FE is a beast, runs forever, and has like a billion miles on it globally. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hope my gen 5 doesn't take too much of a value hit in the next 6 months, thinking about getting rid of it even though I've only had it for a year. Probably the opposite once pricing drops on the 6th gen. The tacoma pricing has not been received well in the taco community. Lots of "what do I need to plan for to take this to 200/300k vs buying a new one" threads out there. Oddly enough demand is higher on the 12-15 trims (again with 4.0) that 16-17 models, at least locally and amongst folks I know in the market looking for a new base to build on. I know more buying before the turnover vs wanting the new model. The 1GR-FE is a beast, runs forever, and has like a billion miles on it globally. Once you got the superseded head gasket, they've been solid. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:43:07 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once you got the superseded head gasket, they've been solid. Early in the run no? Like 2007? 2009? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:44:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the last one you can get is a 200. We are getting a rebadged Prado and not the 300. I blame the Sequoia and the need to compete with the Tahoe / Armada. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just a reminder that the land cruiser is the master race in the US. (i said the US for the Hilux guys i see you). And the last one you can get is a 200. We are getting a rebadged Prado and not the 300. I blame the Sequoia and the need to compete with the Tahoe / Armada. I blame decades of slow sales, the last normally a third of Sequoia which wasn't setting thr world on fire (roughly 3500 avg) . What's the core improvements on the J300 over the J250 now? Besides foreign engines the States weren't getting anyway and packages like the GR Sport with lockers which wasn't likely with TMNA either, I'm curious. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:45:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Early in the run no? Like 2007? 2009? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Once you got the superseded head gasket, they've been solid. Early in the run no? Like 2007? 2009? Yep very limited and solid since, but for a bit it was a thing and peeps like to pile on when Toyota missteps. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:46:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably the opposite once pricing drops on the 6th gen. The tacoma pricing has not been received well in the taco community. Lots of "what do I need to plan for to take this to 200/300k vs buying a new one" threads out there. Oddly enough demand is higher on the 12-15 trims (again with 4.0) than 16-17 models, at least locally and amongst folks I know in the market looking for a new base to build on. I know more buying before the turnover vs wanting the new model. The 1GR-FE is a beast, runs forever, and has like a billion miles on it globally. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hope my gen 5 doesn't take too much of a value hit in the next 6 months, thinking about getting rid of it even though I've only had it for a year. Probably the opposite once pricing drops on the 6th gen. The tacoma pricing has not been received well in the taco community. Lots of "what do I need to plan for to take this to 200/300k vs buying a new one" threads out there. Oddly enough demand is higher on the 12-15 trims (again with 4.0) than 16-17 models, at least locally and amongst folks I know in the market looking for a new base to build on. I know more buying before the turnover vs wanting the new model. The 1GR-FE is a beast, runs forever, and has like a billion miles on it globally. There's nothing odd about that, at least to me. I'm not sure the 3rd gen Tacoma will be remembered kindly, and it makes sense that some buyers will prefer the newest and best 2nd gens over the oldest and worst 3rd gens. The last 3rd gens will probably always have an appeal for being the last of the V6s. I'm curious what the longevity of the 1GR-FE is going to be for the later production engine. My understanding is they do eventually spin bearings, but some say that's a danger at 250k miles and others put it closer to 400k. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:47:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's been a number of Lexus models that don't require premium. Recent NX250, ES, ESh, UXh spec 87. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lexus always calls for 91 I believe. Let's ask expert @amped You are correct. There's been a number of Lexus models that don't require premium. Recent NX250, ES, ESh, UXh spec 87. My 2021 UX250h takes regular gas (85 octane here in Colorado, 87 at sea level) |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:49:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the primary reasons people buy 4runners is reliability. Turbos add complication and possibly reduce reliability. Same reason that I don't want start-stop and a bunch of other safety/convenience/tech features. Not to mention that toyota's solution to address carbon buildup on valves due to direct injection that they added back multiport as well, So now you have an even more compex fuel delivery system. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15342328/explained-why-some-engines-have-both-port-and-direct-injection/ |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:51:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: gayer than 2 dudes sucking each other off Why does that comparison jump into your mind? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 10:52:03 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I blame decades of slow sales, the last normally a third of Sequoia which wasn't setting thr world on fire (roughly 3500 avg) . What's the core improvements on the J300 over the J250 now? Besides foreign engines the States weren't getting anyway and packages like the GR Sport with lockers which wasn't likely with TMNA either, I'm curious. I just want the GR Sport  Really after this build series  ?? 300 SERIES LANDCRUISER: Phase 1 BEAST MODE complete ?? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 11:01:09 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It looks great. I purchased a ‘18 brand new, and haven’t had a moments trouble with it. Love it. Been considering trading it for the new gen, if it ain’t all Tundra’d up with a gigantic grill, and such shit. What’s the old saying about new gen vehicles? … what until at least the 2nd model year, so the bugs can get worked out by the 1st year buyers. I'm right there with you. I bought my ORP in late '18, it's the '19 model year, but have put a grand total of 37K miles (retired  ). Nothing has broken, it stays garaged and it's just about perfect for what I ask it to do here in N. Idaho...I figured out the other day that at my current yearly mileage I can drive it for 22 more years before hitting 200K, which most of the 4.0s will easily do if they're maintained. Y'all pile in the new T4R/LRs and report back, but I won't be buying a tiny turbo'd engine the second year, either. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 11:04:01 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did toyota add a third fuel injection system to fix the detriments of the other 2? Quote HistoryQuoted: Did toyota add a third fuel injection system to fix the detriments of the other 2? Quoted: Not to mention that toyota's solution to address carbon buildup on valves due to direct injection that they added back multiport as well, So now you have an even more compex fuel delivery system. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15342328/explained-why-some-engines-have-both-port-and-direct-injection/ Of all the modern engineering complications being put in cars, dual injection is probably the dumbest one to be triggered about. Direct injection isn't directly mandated by law, but it might as well be at this point. It makes a huge difference in CAFE compliance numbers, so port injection engines are being quickly replaced in everything half ton and smaller. The downsides are that DI fouls up intake valves and doesn't perform well in many situations, and the failure rate tends to be higher, but again, manufacturers have to use it for government compliance. That article you posted is from 2017... 7 years ago. Toyota has been using dual injection in the Lexus line since 2006... 18 years ago. Dual injection has been a non-issue, and dual injection engines are objectively superior to direct injection only engines. It makes sense to be critical of cylinder deactivation, auto start stop, active electronic cooling, spray on cylinder liners, belt driven oil pumps, and other things of that nature, but I wouldn't put dual injection in this group, and I'd have zero hesitation in purchasing a vehicle with it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 11:15:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of all the modern engineering complications being put in cars, dual injection is probably the dumbest one to be triggered about. Direct injection isn't directly mandated by law, but it might as well be at this point. It makes a huge difference in CAFE compliance numbers, so port injection engines are being quickly replaced in everything half ton and smaller. The downsides are that DI fouls up intake valves and doesn't perform well in many situations, and the failure rate tends to be higher, but again, manufacturers have to use it for government compliance. That article you posted is from 2017... 7 years ago. Toyota has been using dual injection in the Lexus line since 2006... 18 years ago. Dual injection has been a non-issue, and dual injection engines are objectively superior to direct injection only engines. It makes sense to be critical of cylinder deactivation, auto start stop, active electronic cooling, spray on cylinder liners, belt driven oil pumps, and other things of that nature, but I wouldn't put dual injection in this group, and I'd have zero hesitation in purchasing a vehicle with it. Add turbos to the “not to be scared of” list as well. I’ve been working on turbocharged cars for 20 years, the number we’ve replaced is very very small. The number I’ve replaced for actual mechanical turbo failure is somewhere around 3. Turbos are fine. Calm down. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 11:23:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why does that comparison jump into your mind?  GOTEEM |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 11:29:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lexus always calls for 91 I believe. Let's ask expert @amped |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 11:29:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the last one you can get is a 200. We are getting a rebadged Prado and not the 300. I blame the Sequoia and the need to compete with the Tahoe / Armada. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just a reminder that the land cruiser is the master race in the US. (i said the US for the Hilux guys i see you). And the last one you can get is a 200. We are getting a rebadged Prado and not the 300. I blame the Sequoia and the need to compete with the Tahoe / Armada. All in all, I'm disappointed in the new LC250. And if they put the 9.5in diff on a Trailhunter 4Runner, there's no point to the LC250 at all. Not only that, but the 91 octane requirement for the LC250 essentially negates any fuel savings with the hybrid drivetrain. I won't be a buyer for another 4-5 years, but at this point I'm either getting an LC200 of some sorts or importing one from Japan when I go visit family there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 12:01:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Add turbos to the “not to be scared of” list as well. I’ve been working on turbocharged cars for 20 years, the number we’ve replaced is very very small. The number I’ve replaced for actual mechanical turbo failure is somewhere around 3. Turbos are fine. Calm down. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Of all the modern engineering complications being put in cars, dual injection is probably the dumbest one to be triggered about. Direct injection isn't directly mandated by law, but it might as well be at this point. It makes a huge difference in CAFE compliance numbers, so port injection engines are being quickly replaced in everything half ton and smaller. The downsides are that DI fouls up intake valves and doesn't perform well in many situations, and the failure rate tends to be higher, but again, manufacturers have to use it for government compliance. That article you posted is from 2017... 7 years ago. Toyota has been using dual injection in the Lexus line since 2006... 18 years ago. Dual injection has been a non-issue, and dual injection engines are objectively superior to direct injection only engines. It makes sense to be critical of cylinder deactivation, auto start stop, active electronic cooling, spray on cylinder liners, belt driven oil pumps, and other things of that nature, but I wouldn't put dual injection in this group, and I'd have zero hesitation in purchasing a vehicle with it. Add turbos to the “not to be scared of” list as well. I’ve been working on turbocharged cars for 20 years, the number we’ve replaced is very very small. The number I’ve replaced for actual mechanical turbo failure is somewhere around 3. Turbos are fine. Calm down. I think this is mostly a question of application and packaging. Turbos make a lot of sense in engines that will be in an unloaded state most of the time. You get great gas mileage, and you have a whole bunch of power on tap when you want it to go fast or to pull the odd load. In engines that will be under load often, they make a lot less sense. Small displacement engines burn MORE fuel than larger, naturally aspirated engines when under load, and they run a whole lot hotter. Frequent towing has caused increased issues with EcoBoost F-150s. I'm not sure exactly where that puts a vehicle like the 4Runner. Obviously, it's fine in stock form and normal driving, but what happens when you lift it, put huge tires on it, and hang 700+ pounds of accessories on it? As for the packaging issue, the new Tundra is probably a good example of what not to do. Those have/had turbo issues, and fixing them is a cab-off affair. That's a hard pass for me. I would like to think the I4 vehicles like the Tacoma and 4R have more friendly packaging, but I don't know the answer to that question. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 12:05:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think this is mostly a question of application and packaging. Turbos make a lot of sense in engines that will be in an unloaded state most of the time. You get great gas mileage, and you have a whole bunch of power on tap when you want it to go fast or to pull the odd load. In engines that will be under load often, they make a lot less sense. Small displacement engines burn MORE fuel than larger, naturally aspirated engines when under load, and they run a whole lot hotter. Frequent towing has caused increased issues with EcoBoost F-150s. I'm not sure exactly where that puts a vehicle like the 4Runner. Obviously, it's fine in stock form and normal driving, but what happens when you lift it, put huge tires on it, and hang 700+ pounds of accessories on it? As for the packaging issue, the new Tundra is probably a good example of what not to do. Those have/had turbo issues, and fixing them is a cab-off affair. That's a hard pass for me. I would like to think the I4 vehicles like the Tacoma and 4R have more friendly packaging, but I don't know the answer to that question. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Of all the modern engineering complications being put in cars, dual injection is probably the dumbest one to be triggered about. Direct injection isn't directly mandated by law, but it might as well be at this point. It makes a huge difference in CAFE compliance numbers, so port injection engines are being quickly replaced in everything half ton and smaller. The downsides are that DI fouls up intake valves and doesn't perform well in many situations, and the failure rate tends to be higher, but again, manufacturers have to use it for government compliance. That article you posted is from 2017... 7 years ago. Toyota has been using dual injection in the Lexus line since 2006... 18 years ago. Dual injection has been a non-issue, and dual injection engines are objectively superior to direct injection only engines. It makes sense to be critical of cylinder deactivation, auto start stop, active electronic cooling, spray on cylinder liners, belt driven oil pumps, and other things of that nature, but I wouldn't put dual injection in this group, and I'd have zero hesitation in purchasing a vehicle with it. Add turbos to the “not to be scared of” list as well. I’ve been working on turbocharged cars for 20 years, the number we’ve replaced is very very small. The number I’ve replaced for actual mechanical turbo failure is somewhere around 3. Turbos are fine. Calm down. I think this is mostly a question of application and packaging. Turbos make a lot of sense in engines that will be in an unloaded state most of the time. You get great gas mileage, and you have a whole bunch of power on tap when you want it to go fast or to pull the odd load. In engines that will be under load often, they make a lot less sense. Small displacement engines burn MORE fuel than larger, naturally aspirated engines when under load, and they run a whole lot hotter. Frequent towing has caused increased issues with EcoBoost F-150s. I'm not sure exactly where that puts a vehicle like the 4Runner. Obviously, it's fine in stock form and normal driving, but what happens when you lift it, put huge tires on it, and hang 700+ pounds of accessories on it? As for the packaging issue, the new Tundra is probably a good example of what not to do. Those have/had turbo issues, and fixing them is a cab-off affair. That's a hard pass for me. I would like to think the I4 vehicles like the Tacoma and 4R have more friendly packaging, but I don't know the answer to that question. Turbos under load power the economy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 12:19:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of all the modern engineering complications being put in cars, dual injection is probably the dumbest one to be triggered about. Direct injection isn't directly mandated by law, but it might as well be at this point. It makes a huge difference in CAFE compliance numbers, so port injection engines are being quickly replaced in everything half ton and smaller. The downsides are that DI fouls up intake valves and doesn't perform well in many situations, and the failure rate tends to be higher, but again, manufacturers have to use it for government compliance. That article you posted is from 2017... 7 years ago. Toyota has been using dual injection in the Lexus line since 2006... 18 years ago. Dual injection has been a non-issue, and dual injection engines are objectively superior to direct injection only engines. It makes sense to be critical of cylinder deactivation, auto start stop, active electronic cooling, spray on cylinder liners, belt driven oil pumps, and other things of that nature, but I wouldn't put dual injection in this group, and I'd have zero hesitation in purchasing a vehicle with it. I know why it is being used. I know its benefits and short comings. I wasnt commenting on all the other tech and safety "features" that are being shoved down our throats that are bullshit. Those weren't mentioned in the post I was responding to. Moar complexity is more complexity. Add back mutli port to fix DI. Add high pressure GDI. Add higher pressure cylinder compression. Add turbos. Add radar. Add easily hacked RFID push to start. I would happily buy a brand new Gen 4 4Runner V6 or V8. Its all the tech I need. All the HP I need. You do you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 12:20:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Turbos under load power the economy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Of all the modern engineering complications being put in cars, dual injection is probably the dumbest one to be triggered about. Direct injection isn't directly mandated by law, but it might as well be at this point. It makes a huge difference in CAFE compliance numbers, so port injection engines are being quickly replaced in everything half ton and smaller. The downsides are that DI fouls up intake valves and doesn't perform well in many situations, and the failure rate tends to be higher, but again, manufacturers have to use it for government compliance. That article you posted is from 2017... 7 years ago. Toyota has been using dual injection in the Lexus line since 2006... 18 years ago. Dual injection has been a non-issue, and dual injection engines are objectively superior to direct injection only engines. It makes sense to be critical of cylinder deactivation, auto start stop, active electronic cooling, spray on cylinder liners, belt driven oil pumps, and other things of that nature, but I wouldn't put dual injection in this group, and I'd have zero hesitation in purchasing a vehicle with it. Add turbos to the “not to be scared of” list as well. I’ve been working on turbocharged cars for 20 years, the number we’ve replaced is very very small. The number I’ve replaced for actual mechanical turbo failure is somewhere around 3. Turbos are fine. Calm down. I think this is mostly a question of application and packaging. Turbos make a lot of sense in engines that will be in an unloaded state most of the time. You get great gas mileage, and you have a whole bunch of power on tap when you want it to go fast or to pull the odd load. In engines that will be under load often, they make a lot less sense. Small displacement engines burn MORE fuel than larger, naturally aspirated engines when under load, and they run a whole lot hotter. Frequent towing has caused increased issues with EcoBoost F-150s. I'm not sure exactly where that puts a vehicle like the 4Runner. Obviously, it's fine in stock form and normal driving, but what happens when you lift it, put huge tires on it, and hang 700+ pounds of accessories on it? As for the packaging issue, the new Tundra is probably a good example of what not to do. Those have/had turbo issues, and fixing them is a cab-off affair. That's a hard pass for me. I would like to think the I4 vehicles like the Tacoma and 4R have more friendly packaging, but I don't know the answer to that question. Turbos under load power the economy. Sure. In diesels. But there are reasons turbocharged gasoline engines haven't found a market in actual work trucks, and that won't happen until government regulation forces it to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 12:21:00 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Turbos under load power the economy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 12:23:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @jafrush speculated party mode is coming back Good call, that would make sense. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 12:34:31 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know why it is being used. I know its benefits and short comings. I wasnt commenting on all the other tech and safety "features" that are being shoved down our throats that are bullshit. Those weren't mentioned in the post I was responding to. Moar complexity is more complexity. Add back mutli port to fix DI. Add high pressure GDI. Add higher pressure cylinder compression. Add turbos. Add radar. Add easily hacked RFID push to start. I would happily buy a brand new Gen 4 4Runner V6 or V8. Its all the tech I need. All the HP I need. You do you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Of all the modern engineering complications being put in cars, dual injection is probably the dumbest one to be triggered about. Direct injection isn't directly mandated by law, but it might as well be at this point. It makes a huge difference in CAFE compliance numbers, so port injection engines are being quickly replaced in everything half ton and smaller. The downsides are that DI fouls up intake valves and doesn't perform well in many situations, and the failure rate tends to be higher, but again, manufacturers have to use it for government compliance. That article you posted is from 2017... 7 years ago. Toyota has been using dual injection in the Lexus line since 2006... 18 years ago. Dual injection has been a non-issue, and dual injection engines are objectively superior to direct injection only engines. It makes sense to be critical of cylinder deactivation, auto start stop, active electronic cooling, spray on cylinder liners, belt driven oil pumps, and other things of that nature, but I wouldn't put dual injection in this group, and I'd have zero hesitation in purchasing a vehicle with it. I know why it is being used. I know its benefits and short comings. I wasnt commenting on all the other tech and safety "features" that are being shoved down our throats that are bullshit. Those weren't mentioned in the post I was responding to. Moar complexity is more complexity. Add back mutli port to fix DI. Add high pressure GDI. Add higher pressure cylinder compression. Add turbos. Add radar. Add easily hacked RFID push to start. I would happily buy a brand new Gen 4 4Runner V6 or V8. Its all the tech I need. All the HP I need. You do you. That's cool, and if you want a 5th gen 4Runner with port injection only, they're still available for a little while. Neither Toyota nor any other manufacturer get to decide what the government enforces. If they did, Toyota would probably be selling Series 70 stuff here, Stellantis would keep selling Hemis, GM wouldn't be ruining their V8s with AFM/DFM, etc. But here we are. I see dual injection as a positive in the context of today's vehicles. It's been in use for a long time, it brings real world benefits to the consumer, and it doesn't cause many headaches. I'll take a dual injection engine over a direct injection engine every time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 12:47:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Diesel maybe. That's a whole different discussion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Turbos under load power the economy. You could argue professional grade components/design, but the engineering fundamentals aren’t light years apart. It’s still a turbo operating at similar pressure levels pumping air into an engine. The trick, which is really more about economics rather than knowledge, is how to balance the lessons learned over decades in commercial/racing applications into high volume consumer applications (and that includes all down stream effects and requirements). |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 12:58:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's cool, and if you want a 5th gen 4Runner with port injection only, they're still available for a little while. Neither Toyota nor any other manufacturer get to decide what the government enforces. If they did, Toyota would probably be selling Series 70 stuff here, Stellantis would keep selling Hemis, GM wouldn't be ruining their V8s with AFM/DFM, etc. But here we are. I see dual injection as a positive in the context of today's vehicles. It's been in use for a long time, it brings real world benefits to the consumer, and it doesn't cause many headaches. I'll take a dual injection engine over a direct injection engine every time. Fair enough. I get it that my desires are not all desires. Toyota could offer a high performance version, but like you said, its gov regulations driving a lot of this complexity. And the gov knows best. And I currently own a 2022 TRD OR. I disabled lane alert and radar cruise. Radar cruise control is the debil. Partner owns a 2017 acura rdx. Last of the V6's in that model. Options are great, mandates are not. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:00:31 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of all the modern engineering complications being put in cars, dual injection is probably the dumbest one to be triggered about. Direct injection isn't directly mandated by law, but it might as well be at this point. It makes a huge difference in CAFE compliance numbers, so port injection engines are being quickly replaced in everything half ton and smaller. The downsides are that DI fouls up intake valves and doesn't perform well in many situations, and the failure rate tends to be higher, but again, manufacturers have to use it for government compliance. That article you posted is from 2017... 7 years ago. Toyota has been using dual injection in the Lexus line since 2006... 18 years ago. Dual injection has been a non-issue, and dual injection engines are objectively superior to direct injection only engines. It makes sense to be critical of cylinder deactivation, auto start stop, active electronic cooling, spray on cylinder liners, belt driven oil pumps, and other things of that nature, but I wouldn't put dual injection in this group, and I'd have zero hesitation in purchasing a vehicle with it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Did toyota add a third fuel injection system to fix the detriments of the other 2? Quoted: Not to mention that toyota's solution to address carbon buildup on valves due to direct injection that they added back multiport as well, So now you have an even more compex fuel delivery system. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15342328/explained-why-some-engines-have-both-port-and-direct-injection/ Of all the modern engineering complications being put in cars, dual injection is probably the dumbest one to be triggered about. Direct injection isn't directly mandated by law, but it might as well be at this point. It makes a huge difference in CAFE compliance numbers, so port injection engines are being quickly replaced in everything half ton and smaller. The downsides are that DI fouls up intake valves and doesn't perform well in many situations, and the failure rate tends to be higher, but again, manufacturers have to use it for government compliance. That article you posted is from 2017... 7 years ago. Toyota has been using dual injection in the Lexus line since 2006... 18 years ago. Dual injection has been a non-issue, and dual injection engines are objectively superior to direct injection only engines. It makes sense to be critical of cylinder deactivation, auto start stop, active electronic cooling, spray on cylinder liners, belt driven oil pumps, and other things of that nature, but I wouldn't put dual injection in this group, and I'd have zero hesitation in purchasing a vehicle with it. Thr idea seems to be complexity is bad. It can be. But doesn't hafta be. One reason some of Toyota's dev cycles are a bit (or in the case of the 8AR-FTS, damn extended) longer is due to increased quality management mostly manifested in durability testing and defect remedy. @networkguru Get your concern about complexity, but what ya got as far as indications of direct poorer quality outcomes due to this complexity, related to D4S since that's your focus here? Increased warranty cost? Widely known issues? System changes that speaks to identified defects then improvements? TSB, Customer Programs, Class Actions, Recalls? I'm interested. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:02:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You hit on something, wonder if this will lower the entry on late model 200 series? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:09:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the primary reasons people buy 4runners is reliability. Turbos add complication and possibly reduce reliability. Same reason that I don't want start-stop and a bunch of other safety/convenience/tech features. Exactly! I bought a ‘23 TRD Offrorad when I didn’t really need a new vehicle. I bought because of the rumors of what this be 4Runner will be. It has more than enough tech for me and at the same time is simple and rugged enough. I think Toyota is screwing up here and not reading the room. They have the RAV and Highlander for soccer moms. Why destroy all the 4Runner heritage? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:14:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thr idea seems to be complexity is bad. It can be. But doesn't hafta be. One reason some of Toyota's dev cycles are a bit (or in the case of the 8AR-FTS, damn extended) longer is due to increased quality management mostly manifested in durability testing and defect remedy. @networkguru Get your concern about complexity, but what ya got as far as indications of direct poorer quality outcomes due to this complexity, related to D4S since that's your focus here? Increased warranty cost? Widely known issues? System changes that speaks to identified defects then improvements? TSB, Customer Programs, Class Actions, Recalls? I'm interested. I work for a brand that’s 10-20 years ahead of Toyota as far as tech goes. Push button start since forever, big screens, radar everywhere etc. Complexity does add to issues, but the world is ending fear is completely unfounded. I’ve probably replaced 2 keys for push button start issues in 20 years. I’ve replaced hundreds of key in the hole ignition switches and the steering locks they require. Hundreds. It’s less complex and equally or harder to steal. The remote start people hacked the old system fine, they can’t get the new stuff. The remote start box has a key hidden inside of it  Remember when you needed a new $99 CD player every year or 3? The new stuff will be silly expensive, but when do you replace it? Never? I’ve owned it all and driven more. A gas engine with a turbo or two is fantastic in anything that isn’t towing 10k pounds. I barely know my 4000 lb boat with a sail of a tower is behind the Tundra. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:26:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's nothing odd about that, at least to me. I'm not sure the 3rd gen Tacoma will be remembered kindly, and it makes sense that some buyers will prefer the newest and best 2nd gens over the oldest and worst 3rd gens. The last 3rd gens will probably always have an appeal for being the last of the V6s. I'm curious what the longevity of the 1GR-FE is going to be for the later production engine. My understanding is they do eventually spin bearings, but some say that's a danger at 250k miles and others put it closer to 400k. I’ve never read that before? Any sources? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:38:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly! I bought a ‘23 TRD Offrorad when I didn’t really need a new vehicle. I bought because of the rumors of what this be 4Runner will be. It has more than enough tech for me and at the same time is simple and rugged enough. I think Toyota is screwing up here and not reading the room. They have the RAV and Highlander for soccer moms. Why destroy all the 4Runner heritage? The rear window goes down, seems like they read the room enough. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:42:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'mma just leave these here. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/69748/1000008888_jpg-3178475.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/69748/1000008889_jpg-3178476.JPG Not bad looking, but it kinda looks like a Bronco & Xterra love child. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:44:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just want the GR Sport Really after this build series  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAU7WLIKvncQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I blame decades of slow sales, the last normally a third of Sequoia which wasn't setting thr world on fire (roughly 3500 avg) . What's the core improvements on the J300 over the J250 now? Besides foreign engines the States weren't getting anyway and packages like the GR Sport with lockers which wasn't likely with TMNA either, I'm curious. I just want the GR Sport Really after this build series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAU7WLIKvncProlly the best appointed rig Toyota's had in a long time. Competent and comfortable. The work Toyota Auto Body has done at Dakar on the T2 class rigs to enable a production implementation and use benefit from what's learned from development for the race and the race itself. Much was implemented in the J300 dev, but also the additions in the GR Sport. Im with you entirely here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:45:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I tried to dig through some dimensions, nothing out there about the new 4r obviously. I found similar answers, the new LC is 2” longer but 10” wider than the current 4r. Theres no way that’s track width, so mirrors? 2 different measurements? With the small LC/GX, the Sequoia being less minivan, the new 4r somewhere in the low end, seems like a very crowded space. We have a ‘23 Tundra Platinum. The big screen is great and turns off easily. I like the 3 window CarPlay screen, works well. There are physical buttons for nearly everything, I wish the steering heels buttons were more intuitive but I’m spoiled by current Benz stuff. I bought our LR4 to have a “small” suv with a 3rd row when needed and power. I haven’t driven any of the new i4 turbo trucks, seriously considering waiting for a LC or bailing and buying an older G500. Strangely enough, the GX is actually wider than the LC300/LX600, go figure. Prado’s are typically 7/8th scale LC’s (they are LC’s anyway, but not the big’un). I want the GX550, the width appeals to me, and it’s shorter than my F150. I’m so used to a nice cabin, I couldn’t go back to the previous mid-size widths. They are obviously getting wider. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:50:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never read that before? Any sources? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's nothing odd about that, at least to me. I'm not sure the 3rd gen Tacoma will be remembered kindly, and it makes sense that some buyers will prefer the newest and best 2nd gens over the oldest and worst 3rd gens. The last 3rd gens will probably always have an appeal for being the last of the V6s. I'm curious what the longevity of the 1GR-FE is going to be for the later production engine. My understanding is they do eventually spin bearings, but some say that's a danger at 250k miles and others put it closer to 400k. I've never read that before? Any sources? Theres been a number of rod bearing threads on Tacoma sites, less so on FJ and others. Difficult for me to ascribe this to engineering or intrinsic design. At 250-400k there's much environmental that could impact. The paucity of high mileage examples complicates. As we see a larger pool clearer patterns may emerge |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 1:53:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I work for a brand that's 10-20 years ahead of Toyota as far as tech goes. Push button start since forever, big screens, radar everywhere etc. Complexity does add to issues, but the world is ending fear is completely unfounded. I've probably replaced 2 keys for push button start issues in 20 years. I've replaced hundreds of key in the hole ignition switches and the steering locks they require. Hundreds. It's less complex and equally or harder to steal. The remote start people hacked the old system fine, they can't get the new stuff. The remote start box has a key hidden inside of it Remember when you needed a new $99 CD player every year or 3? The new stuff will be silly expensive, but when do you replace it? Never? I've owned it all and driven more. A gas engine with a turbo or two is fantastic in anything that isn't towing 10k pounds. I barely know my 4000 lb boat with a sail of a tower is behind the Tundra. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thr idea seems to be complexity is bad. It can be. But doesn't hafta be. One reason some of Toyota's dev cycles are a bit (or in the case of the 8AR-FTS, damn extended) longer is due to increased quality management mostly manifested in durability testing and defect remedy. @networkguru Get your concern about complexity, but what ya got as far as indications of direct poorer quality outcomes due to this complexity, related to D4S since that's your focus here? Increased warranty cost? Widely known issues? System changes that speaks to identified defects then improvements? TSB, Customer Programs, Class Actions, Recalls? I'm interested. I work for a brand that's 10-20 years ahead of Toyota as far as tech goes. Push button start since forever, big screens, radar everywhere etc. Complexity does add to issues, but the world is ending fear is completely unfounded. I've probably replaced 2 keys for push button start issues in 20 years. I've replaced hundreds of key in the hole ignition switches and the steering locks they require. Hundreds. It's less complex and equally or harder to steal. The remote start people hacked the old system fine, they can't get the new stuff. The remote start box has a key hidden inside of it Remember when you needed a new $99 CD player every year or 3? The new stuff will be silly expensive, but when do you replace it? Never? I've owned it all and driven more. A gas engine with a turbo or two is fantastic in anything that isn't towing 10k pounds. I barely know my 4000 lb boat with a sail of a tower is behind the Tundra. Entirely fair. The concern that emerges for Toyota in this area is clearly not born out by any measure Hell look at MB recalls last 5 years compared to Toyota. Early adoption holds risks |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 2:07:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? they are more powerful, more efficient and get better gas mileage. This week I had a Toyota service manager tell me he's never seen the inside of the 4Runner 4.0L 1GR-FE V6. He has however, been intimate with several new Tundra iForce 3.4L V35-FTS V6. Which have been out since '21. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 2:15:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This week I had a Toyota service manager tell me he's never seen the inside of the 4Runner 4.0L 1GR-FE V6. He has however, been intimate with several new Tundra iForce 3.4L V35-FTS V6. Which have been out since '21. Ehh.... that seems like a bit of an exaggeration on the 4.0 part. I know my father has a cracked piston from a 4.0 that he saved from the scrap pile awhile back and that certainly wasn't his only 4.0 rebuild during his time as 'the' engine guy. I never even got that far in the business and have done head gaskets on a 4.0.  That isn't to say that they pop left and right, but I think if you've been doing the job long enough you'll eventually see failures in everything. For the record, he also isn't a fan of the new Tundra and would also be the guy to exaggerate so... did you by chance talk to this Toyota service manager at a Sams Club?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 2:19:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will forever miss my '03 4Runner Limited, 4.7 V8, had it 17 years  Same with my ‘99. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 2:28:20 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Entirely fair. The concern that emerges for Toyota in this area is clearly not born out by any measure Hell look at MB recalls last 5 years compared to Toyota. Early adoption holds risks Tell me about it… I think our Tundra is on recall #8. They can’t seem to get rid of the recall for a tonneau cover I don’t even have
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 2:36:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve never read that before? Any sources? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's nothing odd about that, at least to me. I'm not sure the 3rd gen Tacoma will be remembered kindly, and it makes sense that some buyers will prefer the newest and best 2nd gens over the oldest and worst 3rd gens. The last 3rd gens will probably always have an appeal for being the last of the V6s. I'm curious what the longevity of the 1GR-FE is going to be for the later production engine. My understanding is they do eventually spin bearings, but some say that's a danger at 250k miles and others put it closer to 400k. I’ve never read that before? Any sources? The spun bearings? It's only something I've read through forum chatter. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/5/2024 2:38:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the last one you can get is a 200. We are getting a rebadged Prado and not the 300. I blame the Sequoia and the need to compete with the Tahoe / Armada. Mine is a 62... a 1989.. Master race checking in. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
