I went down the rabbit hole and did some google searching. Some it happened early on in mileage. Most are from poorly maintained engines from the pics I saw. Engines full of sludge. You would be surprised how many people don’t change their oil and then you factor in the toyota thing with them being called indestructible. We replaced a colorado engine for this guy. 3 years later he drops it off cause its running rough. It has timing codes and I notice it still has the same oil filter I installed. He tells me that he didn’t change it cause we changed it. Lol

Didn’t see it so much with the 4Runner but Camrys and Rav4s were common targets for the “but the salesman said it wouldn’t need anything” excuse after a blown engine due to lack of oil changes.

We had a Mercedes lock the engine at 40k. She “thought oil changes were something from the 70s”.

Bought it new, drove it till it locked up.

That’s definitely with the mirrors. My ‘24 Sequoia Pro is 79.9” wide. There’s no way the new GX is wider.

I take that back, it’s 81.5”

I'm 6'1" and drive one daily and for long trips.  No issues at all.

They looked at me like I was crazy when I brought mine in at 3k for its first oil change.  I told them I want this engine to last forever, I don't believe in 10k oil changes -- especially not for the first one.  I do them at 5k currently.

Probably because you don’t understand modern oil.

So we get to pick one feature out of dozens which make the 4Runner special and Toyota thinks there will be no pushback for turning their most iconic vehicle into soccer mom mobile. From the pics I’ve seen, they’ve  made it look like a new Defender or a Ford Escape from the 2000’s. Horrible!

What pics have you seen? The only ones that have been officially released are of the back hatch and it basically looks like an updated 5th Gen.

The unlabeled Land Cruiser pics have created confusion appears.

It's still going to be body on frame. Still going to have a good amount of clearance. Still going to have a locker, ATRAC, KDDS, and all the off road goodies that people want in a 4Runner. The 4.0 wasn't going to stick around and it's not like their newer V6s really got any love in the SUV/Truck market so let's not even pretend that people would be happy if they threw the 3.5 in.

Much like the new Tacoma, the biggest complaint (or push back in your words) will likely be price points once the packages start getting thrown in because Toyota seems to really be in a phase of throwing expensive packages as options into everything. It will be interesting to see how they plan to keep price in line with the Land Cruiser being a potential top end price cap, but it's months out before we'll get to that point.

As for the pics, 99% of them are AI generated click bait given Toyota has only released a handful of teasers. You could probably get a good guess by looking at Land Cruiser, GX550, and Tacoma and making an educated guess yourself but so far we just have a picture of a rear hatch to go off of. If you don't like the general style of any of their current redesigns then it's probably not going to be for you. As a personal fan of the pre facelift 5th gen and 4th gen the most, with a begrudging acceptance of the nightshade trim'd limited, I don't really get excited for a bunch of odd angles surrounding fog lights.

Agreed, that is a 250



All we've seen is the rear hatch and glimpse of interior.

People used to come in expecting one of their two free oil changes to be done at pre 10k miles and they'd usually be sent away because Toyota won't comp the dealer outside of their service intervals. Wasn't exactly the most friendly of policies.

It's not - my bet it's more franchise control than entirely bean counting.

But FWIW after a few UOA's I settled on 10k intervals on my LC100. Nothing esoteric just Mobil 1 Truck and OEM filters. When I let go it had 360k and a great UOA that greased the sale. The current owner is over half a mil, he kept the same OCI. My other UZs and current UR have seen similar patterns so I've kept them similar.

Other stuff, lol, yea those UOAs tell you 5k might be stretching it.

My bad

Phuzzy, I don't think you are ever the problem brother

They will sell like hotcakes.

Precisely why I recently bought a 14' Tacoma, I sold my 07 4runner with 330k to a friend and I also have a 17' TRD ORP 4runner. Safe to say I'm a fan of the 4.0. I may actually buy a little daily to keep the mileage down on the Taco which currently has 161k on the clock.
Attached File

6’8” here and my Gen 5 is just fine to drive for hours on end, even when carrying a G19 and spare mag AIWB.

I do have my 5yo in a booster seat behind me, but could definitely see where a tallish person would be tight in the seat behind me as I have the seat nearly all the way to the rear.

I’m taking my 2020 in every 5k. Paid the lazy tax for the extended maintenance plan that’ll get me to 2028 or 100k miles. When I start doing a 140 mile round trip for my commute later this year or early next I presume I’ll hit the 100k before 2028. Just hit 40k after buying it new in Dec 2020 with 12 miles on the odometer.

Got a RAV4 for my daughter, as soon as I got 1000 miles I took it to Valvoline for oil change.

God you are insufferable.

I have both the "dino tech" 4.0 and 4.6. Funny thing is they get essentially identical mileage despite the weight premium of the GX. The 4.6 power train isn't a powerhouse but it is nice and smooth.

Personally, I'm not a buyer for any of these as I really like my lower tech models and have a lot of life left in them. I don't hate the power numbers on the turbo 4s but I detest additional complications. The 4.0 4runners are a great balance of capability, comfort and simplicity, and i could not care less if people berate them for being old tech.

I understand that Toyota needed to update them but damned if they weren't selling already and they could've left the 4runner to be more bare bones while offering the "fancy" doodads in the new junior LC. The venn diagram of people who want massive tablet displays and people who actually use 4runners as intended doesn't have a big overlap, most real users want tactile knobs and such but the lifestyle image sells more than the actual usage does...

I should refrain from further comment until the unveiling but just a few thoughts based on what we have seen so far.

The oil might, but will the tiny filter last 10k?

FWIW the new Toyota designs still seem to have tactile knobs and buttons for the things that count. Even the GX550 has physical HVAC controls and a host of buttons by the shifter for all the 'fun' options.

What tactile knobs are you looking for? Navi? The radio and AC are all physical buttons/knobs. Assuming it takes on what the Tacoma looks to have, basically a slightly shrunk system from the Tundra.

MIL has a Subaru with the big screen, nearly everything is integrated, it’s terrible. This isn’t that.

It's not so much the turbos themselves as it is the higher compression that the smaller motor will be under. I don't expect it to grenade or anything, but it will need to be cherry-picked sooner than the NA V6.

I'm looking at you, Chevy, and the light controls in a god damn menu.

Or VW with "Let's throw everything under sub menus oh and every button is a Haptic Touch button good luck assholes"

I bought the VIP policy that gives me something like 2 or 3 oil changes per year for life along with a bunch of other things.

That hasn’t been my experience. Mercedes has been supercharging and turbocharging normal engines for 20+ years. They have issues, but that just isn’t the cause.

Maybe Toyota can’t figure it out, who knows. My Tundra has been great, 2 turbos and all.

Good points. How will a 4r with bumpers front and back, a lift , roof rack with who knows what and bg tires/wheels handle it? Not sure. Obviously they can be very capable in stock-ish form but more people modify them than actually use them for their intended purpose. I'll be curious to see if the turbo 4 will handle it as well as the 4.0.

It's a safe bet that modern filters work just fine with longer intervals.

There's a master Toyota tech who has a YouTube channel and he said the same thing, he's never seen a failure orinside of the 4.0 so you may be the outlier here...

You mean kind of like the time they threw Ford techs on a YouTube video saying they never saw a 5.0 fail? The same year the 5.0 was eating oil faster than it did gas due to the fancy new liner? Surely no one would exaggerate a point for a video..

I don't believe any master tech who says they haven't seen a failure. Sorry. Once again, not to say that 4.0s are unreliable, but anyone who has had enough time at a Toyota dealer enough to be considered a master tech will have seen some shit. Either customer caused, mechanically caused, or by a fellow tech doing something dumb.

Well you're the first one here I've read say that and multiple people reference the opposite, so, you're the outlier here. And comparing Toyota to Ford? Yikes...

See, now that part is a lie because other people brought up spun bearings just one page prior. Something, in my opinion, isn't that much of an issue for most given the potential service life needed to get there. Guess I need to throw on my old uniform, sneak into the dealership, and make a quick video for it to matter though. Maybe I'll dig up a certificate or two to really impress people.

And no, I wasn't comparing the 4.0 to Ford's 5.0. What I was doing, was making a point of people exaggerating things for YouTube clicks.

And just to reiterate, because apparently this isn't clear: At no point did I say the 4.0 was unreliable. At no point did I say they were all going to blow up. At no point did I say it's a shit engine. It's ok bud, I'm not insulting your baby. What I am saying, for the third time is: It's extremely unlikely for someone in the business to not see a failure at some point. Nothing mechanical is perfect, and there are a lot of 4.0s out there in the wild. Something, somewhere, eventually will go wrong on one of them and if you are at the point of being considered a 'master Toyota tech' you've been around this world a few times to really see some shit.

And just to pacify you even more, because I know how tribal some of you get. Here is my last 4Runner, which is still in the family:



You'll notice that it's a rather new one with, and prepare to sit down for this one: a 4.0. It's currently being driven by a retired 'Master Toyota Tech' and ex 'service manager' who I mentioned has a cracked piston from a 4.0 sitting in his tool chest. Want to guess what engine he's had in vehicles since.. 2004 I believe it was when he picked up a 4th gen?

That’s my opinion too. Me not wanting a 4cyl turbo is why I opted out of the 2024 Tacoma and just bought the 2024 4Runner.

Back just before and around the turn of the century (sounds weird) when the LC debuted with the 2UZ-FE, the wailing and gnashing of teeth was similar. What is this monstrosity! Why has Toyota abandoned us, the faithful. 32V!!! Muh 1FZ!!! As always foreign markets are the promised land and if Toyota would only bring those here we would be delivered.

When VVTi arrived, along with ETC there was another round. Compared in some cases to BMWs VANOS failures, despite the dissimilarities and ignoring some other applications and not quite a decade reasonable service in use on the 1UZ. That wasn't off-road the detractors pouted! All will be broken!

Couple year later the 3UR-FE arrived in '07 - with Double VVti . . .and broken cams. It was like that those chicks screaming at the cat at dinner in the meme. See! SEE!!! D-VVTi had beeen around a decade. Mostly w/o issue (I'd say entirely but I don't know the whole story on the '98-on Altezza but never heard of issues, but hell could have missed and solenoids do go bad, mostly well along) The cams were fixed but for years there were screams of what a shit show the 3UR was. Broken cams. Problems. Yea problems everywhere!! Seriously my bros sisters uncle had an engine replaced. Seriously tho - we did get cam tower leaks.

In the end, kinda worked out fine, Even a few million mile examples.

I'm a little over the top here for dramatic effect - but just a little. I recall guys, old dudes with a lot more experience than my green ass had, telling me how fucked up it all was going to be, and in some cases telling me it was right then. When I asked, not for anecdotes, but for the data. . .

We'll see on the turbos and hybrids and triple VVTi (J/K) - as they say, past performance is no guarantee. But I'm not buying trouble before it arrives. Then, I was told I was an idiot often for grabbing debut LC100 at the time. Very expensive mistake. You'll be sorry.

18 years and 360k, it worked out ok. Current owner is past his 6th belt.  I hope he joins Farah. Seems his goal. Might become famous like Matt. That's not the only or least of my UZ and URs, but the one I miss the most. I prolly won't buy another Taco or Tundra, but there will be a LC 250 in the driveway very soon, replacing or joining a FJ TTE. Likely a new GX at some point, tho I'm set right now. Still, I hope I'm right

Attached File



FWIW, tho I dont drive them, I've had a lot of good luck with the 2TR, tho can't get past 250k without a clutch

What can you tell me about the 5VZ-FE in my taco

It doesn't have D-4S or you'd be dead. Twice.

Tacoma and 4Runner aren't 3/4 ton vehicles. They aren't made for extreme duty towing. Midsize trucks are made to tow about 7,500 lbs at max and probably less. The engine power isn't the major limiting factor, stability and load capacity are.

In the US, midsize trucks with the higher power engine are going to be either a turbo 4, or a naturally aspirated V6. Ford adds the 2.7, v6 ecoboost on special models.

Modern turbo 4's have power down low and keep making it up high. Naturally aspirated V6's aren't making power down low like the turbo 4's. Turbo 4's are replacing naturally aspirated v6's. Turbo 4's make usable power in a nice size package.

1/2 ton pickups are full of turbo V6's and those pickups are rated for more towing than midsize.

Ford does put natural and ecoboost V6 in 3/4 and 1 ton dually vans. People who want power go ecoboost.

Cummins is producing a turbo gasoline version of the 6.7 inline 6 diesel. It is slated for vocational, bus, and other commercial use. This is in response to emissions and associated expenses and maintenance.

For serious work, the turbo diesel reigns supreme. Natural aspirated gasoline is used for lower purchase costs in that arena. Emissions is starting to have an impact on turbo diesel cost and maintenance.

A few people have mentioned seats being uncomfortable or not having enough leg room. Check out Desert Does It  seat jackers. I've never felt the need for them, but some friends have installed them and they love it.

Those are NICE! I wish they would unfuck the 3rd row seat... Like remove it. One of the best looking SUV/Trucks currently for sale IMHO. It's amazing Toyota could turn out something as good looking as the current Gen Sequoia and at the same time release something as butt ugly as the Tundra. I'm hoping the 4R looks closer to the Seq than the Taco (which isn't bad looking.) Toyota needs to do a mid cycle refresh on the Tundra quick and at least put the Seq front end on it, and a 22.5gal fuel tank is ridiculously small.


Lexus had to make room for the 3rd row that comes on the soccer mom version of the GX550. That is my guess.

Soon afterwards, those people will take a ride in a buddy's turbo and there will be silent grumbles about high revs and lots of shifting from the v6.

I've seen those but it's hard to swallow a hundred bucks for two little metal spacers.
The seats need to be longer in the seat portion IMO.  It's like there isn't enough support under my thighs.

I think the 4 runner will be narrower.

For people that drive tight trails, park in tight garages and parking spaces and value the easy low speed maneuvering of a narrow vehicle, we thank Toyota for not abandoning the normal width, body on frame SUV.

Agree. Basically, word for word.

You can always buy longer bolts and stack washers under the seat.

It will look like shit, but WILL be cheaper.

The Tundra seats are adjustable in that direction, power even. If that puts me in the LC over the 4Runner so be it. I basically spent $10k to get a black headliner, Toyota is tricky

Seemed ridiculous at first in my tundra. Love it now.