User Panel
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Quoted: No it is not A proprietary system, that SIG will discontinue 2 years from now and make spare parts IMPOSSIBLE to find is NOT an improvement on a AR10 system that Larue, LMT, KAC and others have mastered. View Quote Have you ever tried tracking down spare KAC parts? Also, the design is built around higher cycle life parts. Spare Parts availability is also irrelevant on whether or not the rifle is superior. |
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Quoted: They said the same thing with the ACR...and the SCAR....Sucker. View Quote And they have for decades. When I was coming of age the OICW was the new hot whizbang gadget that would be the new standard issue. And that’s before the ACR program, which was before the SPIW program. Lots of neat ideas that just didn’t pan out. If anything the biggest thing to come from the ACR program was the emphasis on optics vs irons as a standard sighting system, instead of any of the ammo developments. |
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Most gunfights to include ones on the battlefield are ......never mind OP is going to OP
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@narphenal
Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? |
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Quoted: No it is not A proprietary system, that SIG will discontinue 2 years from now and make spare parts IMPOSSIBLE to find is NOT an improvement on a AR10 system that Larue, LMT, KAC and others have mastered. View Quote This. A proprietary system that runs proprietary ammo is a novelty, not a practical firearm |
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Quoted: Either it's ballistically superior or it isn't? Those platforms didn't address the shortcomings with the cartridges. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275845/DSC06103-2318042.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: They said the same thing with the ACR...and the SCAR....Sucker. Either it's ballistically superior or it isn't? Those platforms didn't address the shortcomings with the cartridges. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275845/DSC06103-2318042.jpg We’ve never assessed any other calibers to try to overcome cartridge shortcomings? |
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Quoted: This. A proprietary system that runs proprietary ammo is a novelty, not a practical firearm View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: No it is not A proprietary system, that SIG will discontinue 2 years from now and make spare parts IMPOSSIBLE to find is NOT an improvement on a AR10 system that Larue, LMT, KAC and others have mastered. This. A proprietary system that runs proprietary ammo is a novelty, not a practical firearm I think it’s definitely a gamble. If it sees some adoption I think it’ll be supported. If it gets dropped for adoption though I just can’t see Sig supporting such a niche caliber. Especially the bimetal casing versions of the cartridge which is where most of the magic happens. Given how few people would own it, the cartridge would wither on the vine in short order. It’s happened to countless cartridges, many of which are superior to the ammo that replaced them. It wouldn’t be the first, or the last. And I’m not even saying that because ‘Sig always abandons stuff’ or whatever, I think they’ve gotten a lot better about that as of late, it’s just the reality of the potential situation. |
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Quoted: Have you ever tried tracking down spare KAC parts? Also, the design is built around higher cycle life parts. Spare Parts availability is also irrelevant on whether or not the rifle is superior. View Quote Superior? In your eyes maybe. I suppose if I was an early adapter of this I might say that too if it made me feel better. This has a lot of proving to do before it’s known as superior to anything. |
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Is there going to be a thread from you about how it breaks in two weeks?
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Quoted: Superior? In your eyes maybe. I suppose if I was an early adapter of this I might say that too if it made me feel better. This has a lot of proving to do before it’s known as superior to anything. View Quote I agree, but what criteria would it have to meet to be "proven" to you? I don't know exactly what my criteria would be, just generally curious what people think would suffice. |
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Quoted: One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. |
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Quoted: The real question is, why haven't you accepted SIG Sauer USA as your lord and savior yet? View Quote Pepperidge Farms remembers... Sig 556R Malfunctions |
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I mean, I can get an AR for like 400 bucks though....or two for 800, and there is billions upon billions of replacement parts out in the wild, all built on the same spec.
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Quoted: So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. Sig likes to refine their product lines, but I think the Spear is about where it needs to be. If they revise it, they’d be revising what I’d bet is already a great product so it’s not like buying this would leave someone put out. This is at its heart an MCX with all the lessons learned therein, and I have to think that since they submitted this for the NGSW (and seem to be taking a serious run at it) that they put their best foot forward for this. I think any teething issues would have mostly been worked out. Not that revising a product is bad. Sig is basically trying to evolve the MCX in a few years within a single company, what the entire gun industry did for the M16 in decades. So far they’ve been doing a pretty good job considering. |
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Quoted: So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. You do realize even Glock issued a "voluntary upgrade" on their pistols in the past that should have been recalls, right? The Legacy MCX had one recall, due to one brand of 300blk having softer primers and Sig wanted to avoid slam fires. So change was made to the BCG, which later influenced the Virtus line. Haven't seen any actual recalls or "upgrades" offered on the Virtus or Rattler line. I get it's fun to hate on Sig but at least they continue to sell to the average Joe civilian what they make for Uncle Sugar and have even taken the fight to the ATF on a few products. |
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Quoted: You do realize even Glock issued a "voluntary upgrade" on their pistols in the past that should have been recalls, right? The Legacy MCX had one recall, due to one brand of 300blk having softer primers and Sig wanted to avoid slam fires. So change was made to the BCG, which later influenced the Virtus line. Haven't seen any actual recalls or "upgrades" offered on the Virtus or Rattler line. I get it's fun to hate on Sig but at least they continue to sell to the average Joe civilian what they make for Uncle Sugar and have even taken the fight to the ATF on a few products. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. You do realize even Glock issued a "voluntary upgrade" on their pistols in the past that should have been recalls, right? The Legacy MCX had one recall, due to one brand of 300blk having softer primers and Sig wanted to avoid slam fires. So change was made to the BCG, which later influenced the Virtus line. Haven't seen any actual recalls or "upgrades" offered on the Virtus or Rattler line. I get it's fun to hate on Sig but at least they continue to sell to the average Joe civilian what they make for Uncle Sugar and have even taken the fight to the ATF on a few products. These days it seems like every new firearm has a safety recall. Given how many new guns Sig has made, they’re probably batting better than average. |
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My conspiracy theory is that this entire "Russian body armor" thing is a pretense to develop and anti-robot gun.
I think they're pre-emptively getting ready for a future battlefield full of lightly armored RC cars with small turrets. They asked "wat round 4 robot?" and this is what they came up with. Welcome to the future. [/tinfoil off] |
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Quoted: These days it seems like every new firearm has a safety recall. Given how many new guns Sig has made, they’re probably batting better than average. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: @narphenal Are you helping with beta testing or is that a Gen 2? One could argue it's a "Gen 3" as it is built upon the concepts of the original MCX and MCX Virtus. So is that a Gen 3.14159265358979, the Spear Pie? Hopefully it doesn't have any recommended Safety Upgrades, or are they recalls? I can't keep it straight, because we all know that if you make a firearm completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling. Or at least Ron Cohen told me that. You do realize even Glock issued a "voluntary upgrade" on their pistols in the past that should have been recalls, right? The Legacy MCX had one recall, due to one brand of 300blk having softer primers and Sig wanted to avoid slam fires. So change was made to the BCG, which later influenced the Virtus line. Haven't seen any actual recalls or "upgrades" offered on the Virtus or Rattler line. I get it's fun to hate on Sig but at least they continue to sell to the average Joe civilian what they make for Uncle Sugar and have even taken the fight to the ATF on a few products. These days it seems like every new firearm has a safety recall. Given how many new guns Sig has made, they’re probably batting better than average. True enough. Glock even hit a snag in that 17M pistol, when it wasn't much of anything for a change over what they typically make. Shit happens, no matter the brand. |
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Quoted: I agree, but what criteria would it have to meet to be "proven" to you? I don't know exactly what my criteria would be, just generally curious what people think would suffice. View Quote To be proven to me I would need 4-6 years of battlefield use data. I came from the gwot era during which lots of things were found out as strengths or weaknesses with the m4. We do not have battle time with this rifle yet. This thread reminds me a lot of a joglee thread. He too was touting how great these new gen rifles were going to be. So far all they still do is shoot bullets. |
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I mean, at that price point, I sure hope it's a vast improvement over an AR. Like, 20-30 times better than an AR.
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I'm interested to see what the standard model will cost. A SBR Creedmoor might be fun too.
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Weighs what, almost 3 pounds more than an M4? (And with a shorter barrel)
Costs what, almost 12 times more than an M4. Even the shittiest ammo for it costs what, 75% more than a 308 round. We won’t even get into the 3 pound Vortex optic they chose for it. It’s exactly what our troops need. A 30 pound carbine load out to gain 6 feet of drop at 1000 yards over 308. Makes soooo much sense. OICW failure part two. |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Have you ever tried tracking down spare KAC parts? Also, the design is built around higher cycle life parts. Spare Parts availability is also irrelevant on whether or not the rifle is superior. Superior? In your eyes maybe. I suppose if I was an early adapter of this I might say that too if it made me feel better. This has a lot of proving to do before it’s known as superior to anything. Enjoy being 'Overmatched' with your glorified varmint round. https://i.imgur.com/6N6IdM5.jpg Damn...That's a lot of machine guns... |
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View Quote I hate every gun in that picture. |
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"Defies all ballistic theory"
Attached File Those high pressures are going to cause issues at some point. |
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