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Link Posted: 9/30/2023 10:29:37 AM EDT
[#1]
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They've been doing that for decades.  Go to any meat packing plant in this country and it's the same story.
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Someone circulated a rumor online that ICE was going to raid poultry plants in Gainesville, GA. The next day the news reported that hundreds of workers were a no show for work that day.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 10:41:17 AM EDT
[#2]
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Why would they criminalize capitalism?
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That would probably change if senior management got 10 years in prison for allowing it, but nah, never happen.

Why would they criminalize capitalism?


I'm talking deliberately hiring illegals, in violation of Federal law, figuring nothing will happen to them personally, and that the company will just pass the fines onto their customers.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 10:42:58 AM EDT
[#3]
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I'm talking deliberately hiring illegals, in violation of Federal law, figuring nothing will happen to them personally, and that the company will just pass the fines onto their customers.
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That would probably change if senior management got 10 years in prison for allowing it, but nah, never happen.

Why would they criminalize capitalism?


I'm talking deliberately hiring illegals, in violation of Federal law, figuring nothing will happen to them personally, and that the company will just pass the fines onto their customers.
That's capitalism bro!
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 10:58:40 AM EDT
[#4]
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Don't forget the cost to recruit and onboard talent typically blows away providing even a modest 10% COL raise during periods of high inflation.
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I recently onboarded onto a commercial contractor for a brief period of time before jobhopping to a different job, and...

Physical Exam $200
Drug Test $50
PPE (Hard Hat): $12-15
PPE (Safety Glasses): $12-15
PPE (Safety Vest): $12-15

Total raw cost of a basic new hire: $286.

Then you need to factor in about an hour's time for the admin secretary etc to verify status and get everything (health / insurance / next of kin etc) typed in for that person, double checked.

Figure about $20/hr for the secretary, so total cost to the company for the secretary is about maybe $65/hr when you factor in health benefits, etc.

Final Cost of New Hire: About $350

That doesn't really seem like a lot; but if you have a constant revolving door of new hires failing out within the first two weeks on the job -- it does add up -- A hundred failed applicants a year costs the company about $35K just for those basic costs; then there's the cost of OT for the people who have to make up for the missing staff, and lowered company productivity since you can't make as many widgets.

Link Posted: 9/30/2023 11:15:48 AM EDT
[#5]
Coming in a bus from the border?
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 11:46:48 AM EDT
[#6]
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Cleveland, OH is roughly 400 cops under being fully staffed. It's really bad out there on the streets. Every shift they have to ask people to volunteer to work a double. If no one offers, then they choose officers to stay on.
  Part of the problem is a "civilian review board" that NO COP wants to deal with. Coupled with the suburbs poaching cops by offering better salary, better bennies, hiring bonuses, etc
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In Columbus, I tried to hire some cops for a special duty gig.  No takers.

I asked an officer I saw pulling a special duty gig what the deal was.  He said that the contract rate for special duty doesn't compare to what they can make doing overtime, and with the level staffing they have, they can get all of the overtime they can stand.  So you have to offer more than the overtime rate if want to hire a special duty officer.

Pretty much every large metro area police department in the country is understaffed.  The political response to the Saint George Floyd riots saw to that.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 11:50:00 AM EDT
[#7]
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That would probably change if senior management got 10 years in prison for allowing it, but nah, never happen.
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Neither party wants that.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 11:51:31 AM EDT
[#8]
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In Columbus, I tried to hire some cops for a special duty gig.  No takers.

I asked an officer I saw pulling a special duty gig what the deal was.  He said that the contract rate for special duty doesn't compare to what they can make doing overtime, and with the level staffing they have, they can get all of the overtime they can stand.  So you have to offer more than the overtime rate if want to hire a special duty officer.

Pretty much every large metro area police department in the country is understaffed.  The political response to the Saint George Floyd riots saw to that.
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Cleveland, OH is roughly 400 cops under being fully staffed. It's really bad out there on the streets. Every shift they have to ask people to volunteer to work a double. If no one offers, then they choose officers to stay on.
  Part of the problem is a "civilian review board" that NO COP wants to deal with. Coupled with the suburbs poaching cops by offering better salary, better bennies, hiring bonuses, etc


In Columbus, I tried to hire some cops for a special duty gig.  No takers.

I asked an officer I saw pulling a special duty gig what the deal was.  He said that the contract rate for special duty doesn't compare to what they can make doing overtime, and with the level staffing they have, they can get all of the overtime they can stand.  So you have to offer more than the overtime rate if want to hire a special duty officer.

Pretty much every large metro area police department in the country is understaffed.  The political response to the Saint George Floyd riots saw to that.
If you look at the actual productivity metrics, they probably aren't understaffed. I worked for a suburban 600 deputy sheriff's office and 90% of the patrol units were working traffic or sitting in a parking lot at any given time.

The public is tired of the road pirate behavior. I drove around Europe for 7 days straight and saw exactly two traffic stops the entire time. What we have going on here in the USA isn't normal.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 12:02:42 PM EDT
[#9]
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If you look at the actual productivity metrics, they probably aren't understaffed. I worked for a suburban 600 deputy sheriff's office and 90% of the patrol units were working traffic or sitting in a parking lot at any given time.

The public is tired of the road pirate behavior. I drove around Europe for 7 days straight and saw exactly two traffic stops the entire time. What we have going on here in the USA isn't normal.
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I honestly think you are on to something.  It seems like we have too many police already if they have time to drive by my house to look for city code violations, check to see if my trailer tags are up to date, run the vin on a flat bed to see if it might be stolen.  Seems like there’s always a cop available for that stuff but crickets when it comes to shutting down a dope house.
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 12:18:17 PM EDT
[#10]
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Seems like there’s always a cop available for that stuff but crickets when it comes to shutting down a dope house.
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That reminds me, it's been like 30 years ago but I remember seeing an episode of that show Cops where they stopped this kid and told him they saw him leaving a "known dope house" and they knew what he was doing there.  

Yes I admit I was awful naive but when I saw that I thought, "Why is there a known dope house?"
Link Posted: 9/30/2023 2:34:00 PM EDT
[#11]
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It's still a big risk that increases as you go up the business scale -- the "shade tree" lawn care company run from the owner's garage with everyone 1099'ed can get away with blatantly ignoring immigration law; a manufacturing company with a large amount of DOD contracts can't.

I think it's because college degrees are now required for everything + "everyone must go to college", so college degrees have become extremely dumbed down to let the lower than median IQs graduate; and we're seeing the results of that about 25-30 years down the line as people who SHOULD have basic forecasting skills...don't.

i.e.

"We need to get more people, we're down by five bodies on the production line."

"We could pay new hires $19/hr."

"Approved"

And not once does anyone ask "hey, our current wage scale tops out at $20/hr for eight years of employment....should we boost our current employees' salary as well?" and they're SHOCKED SHOCKED when half their experienced shop personnel quit within a month.

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Because the risk isn't there. How many times has a business been raided with illegals... and they're still in business and hiring illegals? ALL THE TIME.


It's still a big risk that increases as you go up the business scale -- the "shade tree" lawn care company run from the owner's garage with everyone 1099'ed can get away with blatantly ignoring immigration law; a manufacturing company with a large amount of DOD contracts can't.

I think it's because college degrees are now required for everything + "everyone must go to college", so college degrees have become extremely dumbed down to let the lower than median IQs graduate; and we're seeing the results of that about 25-30 years down the line as people who SHOULD have basic forecasting skills...don't.

i.e.

"We need to get more people, we're down by five bodies on the production line."

"We could pay new hires $19/hr."

"Approved"

And not once does anyone ask "hey, our current wage scale tops out at $20/hr for eight years of employment....should we boost our current employees' salary as well?" and they're SHOCKED SHOCKED when half their experienced shop personnel quit within a month.



Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 10:46:50 AM EDT
[#12]
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I recently onboarded onto a commercial contractor for a brief period of time before jobhopping to a different job, and...

Physical Exam $200
Drug Test $50
PPE (Hard Hat): $12-15
PPE (Safety Glasses): $12-15
PPE (Safety Vest): $12-15

Total raw cost of a basic new hire: $286.

Then you need to factor in about an hour's time for the admin secretary etc to verify status and get everything (health / insurance / next of kin etc) typed in for that person, double checked.

Figure about $20/hr for the secretary, so total cost to the company for the secretary is about maybe $65/hr when you factor in health benefits, etc.

Final Cost of New Hire: About $350

That doesn't really seem like a lot; but if you have a constant revolving door of new hires failing out within the first two weeks on the job -- it does add up -- A hundred failed applicants a year costs the company about $35K just for those basic costs; then there's the cost of OT for the people who have to make up for the missing staff, and lowered company productivity since you can't make as many widgets.

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't forget the cost to recruit and onboard talent typically blows away providing even a modest 10% COL raise during periods of high inflation.


I recently onboarded onto a commercial contractor for a brief period of time before jobhopping to a different job, and...

Physical Exam $200
Drug Test $50
PPE (Hard Hat): $12-15
PPE (Safety Glasses): $12-15
PPE (Safety Vest): $12-15

Total raw cost of a basic new hire: $286.

Then you need to factor in about an hour's time for the admin secretary etc to verify status and get everything (health / insurance / next of kin etc) typed in for that person, double checked.

Figure about $20/hr for the secretary, so total cost to the company for the secretary is about maybe $65/hr when you factor in health benefits, etc.

Final Cost of New Hire: About $350

That doesn't really seem like a lot; but if you have a constant revolving door of new hires failing out within the first two weeks on the job -- it does add up -- A hundred failed applicants a year costs the company about $35K just for those basic costs; then there's the cost of OT for the people who have to make up for the missing staff, and lowered company productivity since you can't make as many widgets.



I was referring more to White Collar jobs that use recruiters that bill a company upwards to $50k on placement for a $100k salaried position that could turn over again in 12 months.

That doesn't even factor in any relocation package or other corporate perks like sign on bonus, that get tossed around. HR is blind to how little employee retention costs relative to the above.
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 11:07:09 AM EDT
[#13]
There is a shortage because people look at these jobs, with schedules which typically suck... and then see youtubers making a gang more money, and seem to have endless time for travel and fun.

People don't want to work these jobs to barely keep their head above water.
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 4:58:27 PM EDT
[#14]
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It's still a big risk that increases as you go up the business scale -- the "shade tree" lawn care company run from the owner's garage with everyone 1099'ed can get away with blatantly ignoring immigration law; a manufacturing company with a large amount of DOD contracts can't.



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It's still a big risk that increases as you go up the business scale -- the "shade tree" lawn care company run from the owner's garage with everyone 1099'ed can get away with blatantly ignoring immigration law; a manufacturing company with a large amount of DOD contracts can't.





2014"

Load Trail was fined $445,000 in 2014 for employing more than 170 unauthorized immigrants at its plant, according to an ICE report.


August 2018:

An attorney for a North Texas manufacturing plant that was raided by immigration agents said Wednesday that the company pays good wages and does not exploit its immigrant workers.

Gene Besen, who represents Load Trail LLC in Sumner, about 100 miles northeast of Dallas, told The Dallas Morning News that his clients were shocked by the large-scale raid Tuesday during which dozens of agents with a helicopter and buses handcuffed and took away more than 150 workers suspected of being in the country illegally.


They are still in business:
https://loadtrail.com/

The owners should be in prison and the business assets seized and sold at auction.

It is profitable to hire illegal workers in this country. Politicians want low wages. They want to fuck working people and that goes for both parties. Hell this is in Texas a supposed "conservative" state. Don't pay attention to what the political class says pay attention to what they do. Texas allows companies to hire illegal labor and hold down wages for their residents. They know damn well that the money those workers are making is sent out of the country.
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 5:39:15 PM EDT
[#15]
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I think what he's also noticing, is that companies aren't adding more cargo anymore. For some reason they want it to look like they're trying to add cargo, but very few are actually doing it.

I just can't figure out what incentive these companies have for keeping job postings open, and not filling them.
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"Yep nobody qualified applied, give us our H1B allotment."
Link Posted: 10/1/2023 7:10:32 PM EDT
[#16]
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"Yep nobody qualified applied, give us our H1B allotment."
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I think what he's also noticing, is that companies aren't adding more cargo anymore. For some reason they want it to look like they're trying to add cargo, but very few are actually doing it.

I just can't figure out what incentive these companies have for keeping job postings open, and not filling them.


"Yep nobody qualified applied, give us our H1B allotment."


I recently spoke with an acquaintance who has been in corporate tech recruiting (Google, Amazon, etc) for a while.

H1B’s came up and…..well, unsurprisingly it didn’t match the narrative that I have been reading for years on arfcom.
Link Posted: 10/7/2023 9:07:23 PM EDT
[#17]
OST
Link Posted: 10/7/2023 9:14:01 PM EDT
[#18]
They are difficult jobs that routinely under pay and people in them tend to get treated like shit by society because of unrealistic expectations.  Whereas in the past they were careers worth seeking, no one in their right mind would do them now.
Link Posted: 10/7/2023 9:18:06 PM EDT
[#19]
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I ate lunch today at a place that made me wait for a table while they juggled tasks enough to go clean off a table.
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Oh the horrors.  I hope you showed them by leaving a measly tip and a pithy note on the receipt about their poor service.
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