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Posted: 3/31/2019 5:34:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Competition is awesome. Like 2 gun. Shooting bird shot at plates at 10 yards is not hard. It's arguably the easiest shooting "challenge". Does anyone but the biggest newbie ever miss? On top of that - shotgun loading Speed is a money game. That's why 3G is inferior to 2 gun Normal sized static shotgun steel is 4x4. I saw Jerry Miculek miss one once and force him to reload. You should come show Jerry how its done. 
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Posted: 3/31/2019 5:35:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. All you need is a 200 dollar caddie and you will instantly be loading 8 shells in less than 4 seconds. Has nothing to do with hundreds of hours of dryfire practice or anything like that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Competition is awesome. Like 2 gun. Shooting bird shot at plates at 10 yards is not hard. It's arguably the easiest shooting "challenge". Does anyone but the biggest newbie ever miss? On top of that - shotgun loading https://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?a=squote&b=1&f=5&t=2207246&tl=This-picture-perfectly-summarizes-3-gun-competitions&r=78111361&page=4#Speed is a money game. That's why 3G is inferior to 2 gun |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 5:37:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. You don't know what you don't know. Normal sized static shotgun steel is 4x4. I saw Jerry Miculek miss one once and force him to reload. You should come show Jerry how its done. 
Please rank these in order to easiest to hardest to shoot in a typical 3G stage: Rifle, shotgun, pistol I can't wait to see where the shotgun is. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 5:39:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why practice when you can get an expensive, magazine fed shotgun that reloads in 2 seconds? $$$$$$ |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 5:45:51 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Competition is awesome. Like 2 gun. Shooting bird shot at plates at 10 yards is not hard. It's arguably the easiest shooting "challenge". Does anyone but the biggest newbie ever miss? On top of that - shotgun loading Speed is a money game. That's why 3G is inferior to 2 gun |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 5:46:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That argument doesn't hold up. Michael Jordan missed a layup, so it must be harder than a 3 pointer
Please rank these in order to easiest to hardest to shoot in a typical 3G stage: Rifle, shotgun, pistol I can't wait to see where the shotgun is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Lol. You don't know what you don't know. Normal sized static shotgun steel is 4x4. I saw Jerry Miculek miss one once and force him to reload. You should come show Jerry how its done.
Please rank these in order to easiest to hardest to shoot in a typical 3G stage: Rifle, shotgun, pistol I can't wait to see where the shotgun is. But you don’t. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 5:49:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Competition is awesome. Like 2 gun. Shooting bird shot at plates at 10 yards is not hard. It's arguably the easiest shooting "challenge". Does anyone but the biggest newbie ever miss? On top of that - shotgun loading Speed is a money game. That's why 3G is inferior to 2 gun |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 5:51:44 PM EDT
[#8]
LMAO
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:03:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. All you need is a 200 dollar caddie and you will instantly be loading 8 shells in less than 4 seconds. Has nothing to do with hundreds of hours of dryfire practice or anything like that. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:04:34 PM EDT
[#10]
You'd think at some point it would just be faster to reload.
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:14:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I taught myself to quad load watching YouTube and about an hour of my time
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:15:52 PM EDT
[#12]
ITT: a bunch of non-shooting Timmies, who say they would shoot competition BUT....*insert excuse here*
All you guys who TRAIN instead of competing, and all of you would like physical 2 gun; are you going to show up at The Tactical Games? https://thetacticalgames.com/ |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:20:06 PM EDT
[#13]
You can shoot / compete and still think shotgun loading is dumb. Because it is.
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:22:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure he's talking about my match. I'm the MD of an annual LE/MIL only multi-gun match that brings in competitors from all over the US. It's really a 2-gun match, but we always have one stage that starts with a prop 870 initially used to breach a door then engage some shotgun plates before transitioning to a pistol and/or rifle. We provide ammo and bring four shotguns to keep the stage running. Two shotguns will keep the stage running smoothly, but we always start with four since we're often down to two by the end of the match due to parts breakages. Here's a competitor's video of last year's match (shotgun stage starts at 5:56) that I found on youtube (paper targets on that stage require 2 body / 1 head shot to neutralize):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QC5oJb3mPc
80% of our competitors have never and will never shoot another match besides ours, so we tailor our stages for them knowing that it will end up being a hose-fest for the top shooters. We've actually changed our equipment rules every year to try to accommodate the most amount of people, but honestly most of them don't really care--they just want to shoot, have fun, and test their skills as this is the only place most of them get to shoot like this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: As someone that has been a 3-Gun MD in the past, that's a horrible idea and would be amazingly unworkable. I'm the MD of an annual LE/MIL only multi-gun match that brings in competitors from all over the US. It's really a 2-gun match, but we always have one stage that starts with a prop 870 initially used to breach a door then engage some shotgun plates before transitioning to a pistol and/or rifle. We provide ammo and bring four shotguns to keep the stage running. Two shotguns will keep the stage running smoothly, but we always start with four since we're often down to two by the end of the match due to parts breakages. Here's a competitor's video of last year's match (shotgun stage starts at 5:56) that I found on youtube (paper targets on that stage require 2 body / 1 head shot to neutralize): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QC5oJb3mPc
80% of our competitors have never and will never shoot another match besides ours, so we tailor our stages for them knowing that it will end up being a hose-fest for the top shooters. We've actually changed our equipment rules every year to try to accommodate the most amount of people, but honestly most of them don't really care--they just want to shoot, have fun, and test their skills as this is the only place most of them get to shoot like this. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:25:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hush yourself. The ones being made fun of aren't gun guys who compete, they are competitors that happen to use guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Hush you. This is a shooting forum where we make fun of people that actually get out and shoot. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:27:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve only gotten to do one 3 gun match, lol. Had fun but when there were guys with semi auto, rotating magazine fed tubes holding 20-40 rounds , red dots, off set scopes (for 80 yard hostage target with slugs), double stack custom 1911’s (38 super), comps, and I’m not even sure what their arms were. And I managed to hang middle of pack with a ruger p95, 870 bead sight(let’s just say the hostage had a BAD DAY ; loading from a dump pouch) and a cav arms lower with psa parts kit there isn’t a whole lot of skill for some of the pick leaders , some were legit head and shoulders above the rest but the guys with the impressive gear were new to it, fumbling and it was a “look what I bought” not a look what I can run game. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:28:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Well, if nothing else we’ve identified all the 3-gun shooters.
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:28:47 PM EDT
[#18]
People who hate on 3 gun usually showed up for one match, got fucking spanked, never came back because 'muh tactical'.
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:29:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's because no one wants to paste/reset targets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ought to be a picture of a bunch of guys sitting on the ground for hours waiting to shoot for 30 seconds Everyone else is expected to pitch in. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:33:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People who hate on 3 gun usually showed up for one match, got fucking spanked, never came back because 'muh tactical'. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:38:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
People who hate on 3 gun usually showed up for one match, got fucking spanked, never came back because 'muh tactical'. @fooboy are you going to do the Tactical Games, or will that be another "I would buuuuuuuttt....." |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:38:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why you are one of my favorites here. 
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:39:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Competition is awesome. Like 2 gun. Shooting bird shot at plates at 10 yards is not hard. It's arguably the easiest shooting "challenge". Does anyone but the biggest newbie ever miss? On top of that - shotgun loading Speed is a money game. That's why 3G is inferior to 2 gun The downside to shotgun stages is that an inividual can gain a very real time advantage based on detachable magazines and speedloaders, as well as through use of tubes which are not real-world practical. In some ways the difference is more noticeable than equipment differences in other disciplines (i.e. rifle, pistol). i like it when match directors use stages to make up for that the extend which it is possible. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:42:06 PM EDT
[#24]
I’d like to try a 3-gun match. I’d run it with an 870, but I’d probably put a +3 tube extension on it. Shooting stuff is fun, how you place is secondary. I shot highpower for a few years and never won a match, but it was fun.
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:46:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To all the people whining about gear keep in mind that there are different divisions for people with different gear. There are divisions for those with scopes and those without. There are divisions for those with Saigas and those with pump guns. Stop worrying about the mean fat guy in the jersey who has a VEPR. He is in open class and his score is not comparable to yours. You are welcome to come to a match with an 870 and load it out of your pockets. You can shoot against yourself and not worry about the "gamers". Do you really think the only difference between you and the guy that wins is a +4 extension and a quad load caddie? If you want to be as fast as him spend 80 bucks on a caddie and set aside an hour a day to practice loading. After a year of that you will be the fastest shotgunner at your club. If you cant be bothered to stop worrying what other people are doing and you won't put in the time to git gud then don't come to the match. You are welcome to sit by yourself at the other bay and shoot off the bench all day. The best shotgunner at our club uses a Benelli Nova that he bought for 300 bucks and he has been known to mop up the open shooters at times. Magazine extensions are not a significant advantage because regardless of how many rounds you can fit in it you can only start with 10 in the gun. The longer the magazine is, the more unwieldy the gun gets. I get by just fine with a 500 dollar Mossberg 930. The only thing I have done to it was opening the loading port with a dremel. The easiest way to get to the front of the line for the prize table at my club is to shoot in our "production" division. 1. A rifle with irons or a non-magnified optic 2. A pump action shotgun with no optics or feeding devices (magazines or speed loaders) 3. No more than 10 rounds loaded in the handgun, no compensator, no magwell, no handgun optic. None of the good shooters even bother with this division so its basically a free win. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:47:34 PM EDT
[#26]
You guys really to understand the concept of competing against people shooting your own division.
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:53:56 PM EDT
[#27]
USPSA/3G GD Basics
1.) Complaining about gear used by people who are not even in your division (Lets be honest 90% of the people in this thread don't "compete") 2.) Complaining about stage layout that caters to a different division then you 3.) Some hyperbolic story about how some "gamer" did bad with $$$$ Super Protip: Yeah Shotgun is about reload meta, so how about you buy the worlds most beat the fuck up Maverick 88 and be the fastest fucking reloader on the planet and put everyone else in TO to shame. Or just complain on forums.... whichever is easiest |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:58:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a game...and I get that...So I have no issues with those who want to use the souped up gear..... But I agree, if you truly want the sport to grow....the majority of them should be set up with new or intermediate shooters in mind.... The ones who would like to run what I brung crowd. I have no problem showing up to any match and shoot for fun and not for score. And do not get intimidated by the big league gamers. But a lot of first timers are. Don't think that by throwing in a token "Division" like trooper is enough. PRS is going down the same gear path, and will reap the same results....And the discipline will stagnant....and eventually die off. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 6:59:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People who hate on 3 gun usually showed up for one match, got fucking spanked, never came back because 'muh tactical'. 'Seen this exact scenario play out a few times... |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:19:04 PM EDT
[#30]
The World Recreation and Shooting Complex hosts 2 gun matches (and the Red October Match which is an AK47 centric match):
 Failed To Load Title Supposedly, you don't have to wear a chest rig with plates. You can sign up for the "gamer division". |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:23:51 PM EDT
[#31]
At the last major match I attended met a young man who decided that his first 3 gun match ever would be the state championship.
He brought an 870 and he loaded it one at a time from a USGI Alice magazine pouch. Never herd him complain once about about the "gear fags" with VEPRs and quad load caddies. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:36:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can shoot / compete and still think shotgun loading is dumb. Because it is. I still do it. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:40:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ITT: a bunch of non-shooting Timmies, who say they would shoot competition BUT....*insert excuse here* All you guys who TRAIN instead of competing, and all of you would like physical 2 gun; are you going to show up at The Tactical Games? https://thetacticalgames.com/ |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:41:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can shoot / compete and still think shotgun loading is dumb. Because it is. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:43:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’d like to try a 3-gun match. I’d run it with an 870, but I’d probably put a +3 tube extension on it. Shooting stuff is fun, how you place is secondary. I shot highpower for a few years and never won a match, but it was fun. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:46:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ought to be a picture of a bunch of guys sitting on the ground for hours waiting to shoot for 30 seconds |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:49:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of my friends used to shoot that at a 3 gun. He would smoke the gamers because he was good enough with it and how well he shot pistol. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:49:48 PM EDT
[#38]
3 gun is a bullet fest. Wether it has 2 or 3 or 4 guns, it attracts MDs and shooters who just want to blaze through stages.
2 gun is usually slowly and longer stages. This is why 2 gun has a tendency to appeal the the more "tactically minded shooters ". 2 gun with physicality added is a whole different market appeal. 3 gun, being a gear centric game attracts a heavier sponsor list than 2 gun which lends itself more to "run what ya got". |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:51:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4884/44523738550_158259cbdd_b.jpgM2 SBS Nordic Plus 7 by FredMan, on Flickr 
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:53:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like what happened with the SASS cowboy matches. The gamers moved in, and all of a sudden those of us who went to the matches to shoot and have a good time were outnumbered by the crowd who cared about nothing but winning. Those were the guys who shot single-actions chambered in .32 S&W, and loaded their .357 rifle rounds so that they just barely met the 650 FPS minimum, all in the attempt to reduce recoil. Some of those guys had loads so weak you could damned near throw the bullet faster than it came out of the gun. We called them mouse-fart loads. 
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Posted: 3/31/2019 7:57:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gun Golf is Sporting Clays... Which is an absolute blast. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 8:00:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m sure he told you that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: One of my friends used to shoot that at a 3 gun. He would smoke the gamers because he was good enough with it and how well he shot pistol. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 8:00:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the game sets a minimum velocity, and then you complain when people load ammo to those rules? https://media.tenor.com/images/47f0650d57407c2361c2b40febc7212a/tenor.gif |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 8:01:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ITT: a bunch of non-shooting Timmies, who say they would shoot competition BUT....*insert excuse here* All you guys who TRAIN instead of competing, and all of you would like physical 2 gun; are you going to show up at The Tactical Games? https://thetacticalgames.com/ |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 8:04:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People who hate on 3 gun usually showed up for one match, got fucking spanked, never came back because 'muh tactical'. My very first match. Shot it with my duty gear. A stock M&P and AR with Eotech. Went at it cold, didn't even walk the stages beforehand. Completely blew one stage since I failed to engage a line of plates. I didn't even notice tucked in below another. Placed 81 out of 134. The old guy that shot a standard A1 with iron sights, 20 rd mags and a RA 1911 in a military FLAP HOLSTER hanging from a GI pistol belt placed 66 and he could not even run. Yeah, go on and tell me how hard it is. 
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Posted: 3/31/2019 8:06:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anybody skinny involved? 
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Posted: 3/31/2019 8:13:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please post a pic of the shotgun you use. Just curious.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 8:15:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://www.downrange.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/MGN_0142.jpg https://us.glock.com/-/media/glock/glockus/us-site/632-ashley-rheuark/hero-all-sizes-assets/herosmalll1l2l3img2x.jpg https://i.redd.it/35yoj57ecoe01.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/06/53/90/06539051eb05a56c52c2186027a2016f.jpg 
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Posted: 3/31/2019 8:16:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RIIIIIIGHT. My very first match. Shot it with my duty gear. A stock M&P and AR with Eotech. Went at it cold, didn't even walk the stages beforehand. Completely blew one stage since I failed to engage a line of plates. I didn't even notice tucked in below another. Placed 81 out of 134. The old guy that shot a standard A1 with iron sights, 20 rd mags and a RA 1911 in a military FLAP HOLSTER hanging from a GI pistol belt placed 66 and he could not even run. Yeah, go on and tell me how hard it is. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 8:17:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure he's talking about my match. I'm the MD of an annual LE/MIL only multi-gun match that brings in competitors from all over the US. It's really a 2-gun match, but we always have one stage that starts with a prop 870 initially used to breach a door then engage some shotgun plates before transitioning to a pistol and/or rifle. We provide ammo and bring four shotguns to keep the stage running. Two shotguns will keep the stage running smoothly, but we always start with four since we're often down to two by the end of the match due to parts breakages. Here's a competitor's video of last year's match (shotgun stage starts at 5:56) that I found on youtube (paper targets on that stage require 2 body / 1 head shot to neutralize): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QC5oJb3mPc
80% of our competitors have never and will never shoot another match besides ours, so we tailor our stages for them knowing that it will end up being a hose-fest for the top shooters. We've actually changed our equipment rules every year to try to accommodate the most amount of people, but honestly most of them don't really care--they just want to shoot, have fun, and test their skills as this is the only place most of them get to shoot like this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: As someone that has been a 3-Gun MD in the past, that's a horrible idea and would be amazingly unworkable. I'm the MD of an annual LE/MIL only multi-gun match that brings in competitors from all over the US. It's really a 2-gun match, but we always have one stage that starts with a prop 870 initially used to breach a door then engage some shotgun plates before transitioning to a pistol and/or rifle. We provide ammo and bring four shotguns to keep the stage running. Two shotguns will keep the stage running smoothly, but we always start with four since we're often down to two by the end of the match due to parts breakages. Here's a competitor's video of last year's match (shotgun stage starts at 5:56) that I found on youtube (paper targets on that stage require 2 body / 1 head shot to neutralize): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QC5oJb3mPc
80% of our competitors have never and will never shoot another match besides ours, so we tailor our stages for them knowing that it will end up being a hose-fest for the top shooters. We've actually changed our equipment rules every year to try to accommodate the most amount of people, but honestly most of them don't really care--they just want to shoot, have fun, and test their skills as this is the only place most of them get to shoot like this. |
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