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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:35:49 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted from Quora.com: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted from Quora.com: When a submarine hull collapses, it moves inward at about 1,500 miles per hour - that’s 2,200 feet per second. A modern nuclear submarine’s hull radius is about 20 feet. So the time required for complete collapse is 20 / 2,200 seconds = about 1 millisecond. A human brain responds instinctually to stimulus at about 25 milliseconds. Human rational response (sense?reason?act) is at best 150 milliseconds. The air inside a sub has a fairly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapors. When the hull collapses it behaves like a very large piston on a very large Diesel engine. The air auto-ignites and an explosion follows the initial rapid implosion. Large blobs of fat (that would be humans) incinerate and are turned to ash and dust quicker than you can blink your eye. That’s at full depth. They were only down 1:45 before it happened. Not even half way. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:38:25 PM EST
[#2]
Question
I'm guessing that a composite (lack of a better term) pressure vessel such as the sub would have a known life span? IIRC, for example fire department SCBA bottles. The old steel, slightly newer aluminum had to be hydro tested every so many years but could continue to be used if it passes. The newer fiberglass bottles are, or at least were time limited based on manufacture date. So in theory at least it would work for a known time or so many cycles, but would have a definite life span? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:39:50 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question I'm guessing that a composite (lack of a better term) pressure vessel such as the sub would have a known life span? IIRC, for example fire department SCBA bottles. The old steel, slightly newer aluminum had to be hydro tested every so many years but could continue to be used if it passes. The newer fiberglass bottles are, or at least were time limited based on manufacture date. So in theory at least it would work for a known time or so many cycles, but would have a definite life span? Well it has a definite lifespan now. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:39:59 PM EST
[#4]
RIP
The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:41:40 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question I'm guessing that a composite (lack of a better term) pressure vessel such as the sub would have a known life span? IIRC, for example fire department SCBA bottles. The old steel, slightly newer aluminum had to be hydro tested every so many years but could continue to be used if it passes. The newer fiberglass bottles are, or at least were time limited based on manufacture date. So in theory at least it would work for a known time or so many cycles, but would have a definite life span? This was a science mission to test the longevity of their experimental submersible. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:41:53 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s at full depth. They were only down 1:45 before it happened. Not even half way. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted from Quora.com: When a submarine hull collapses, it moves inward at about 1,500 miles per hour - that’s 2,200 feet per second. A modern nuclear submarine’s hull radius is about 20 feet. So the time required for complete collapse is 20 / 2,200 seconds = about 1 millisecond. A human brain responds instinctually to stimulus at about 25 milliseconds. Human rational response (sense?reason?act) is at best 150 milliseconds. The air inside a sub has a fairly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapors. When the hull collapses it behaves like a very large piston on a very large Diesel engine. The air auto-ignites and an explosion follows the initial rapid implosion. Large blobs of fat (that would be humans) incinerate and are turned to ash and dust quicker than you can blink your eye. That’s at full depth. They were only down 1:45 before it happened. Not even half way. 2:00 is full depth. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:41:57 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. So, you don't allow for the possibility that people can be flat out stupid taking chances with their own lives? I don't think I would have trusted my fate to a homemade submarine with a waiver that mentions death several times on the first page. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:43:30 PM EST
[#8]
Have they done this other times or is this the first time it was fully manned?
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:43:38 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  Quote HistoryQuoted: The cost of the search and rescue mission is likely in the millions of dollars — and will fall to taxpayers, said Chris Boyer, the executive director of the National Association for Search and Rescue, a non-profit education, training and advocacy group. Write it off as a demonstration to the CCP how quickly Western civilian* tech can find a pair of charred titanium hubcaps on the bottom of the ocean ;-) 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:43:54 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Likely squashed to mush. I read an account one time of a guy in a deep sea suit experiencing a rupture. His entire body was squeezed into his helmet.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:44:24 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question I'm guessing that a composite (lack of a better term) pressure vessel such as the sub would have a known life span? IIRC, for example fire department SCBA bottles. The old steel, slightly newer aluminum had to be hydro tested every so many years but could continue to be used if it passes. The newer fiberglass bottles are, or at least were time limited based on manufacture date. So in theory at least it would work for a known time or so many cycles, but would have a definite life span? That would have required multiple hulls to be built and tested. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:44:32 PM EST
[#12]
They paid their money, took their chances, and now they can be shipped home inside a FedEx envelope.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:44:43 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What does the human body look like after it suffers that much pressure? Is it flat LOL or does it explode? Probably answered but... I think they said at that dept...around 5000 Lbs of pressure per square inch. I guess the best comparison that anyone can relate to would be...for every square inch of your body a sedan sitting on top of it, some people like me that is at least 870 sedans....   . Our normal atmosphere (sea level and dry land) = 14-15 Pounds per square inchI would say a hydraulic press that works in 3d+ might be the best to describe what would be left. Can also depend on how the craft imploded as well, this example is basically the outer hull just vanished. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:46:30 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question I'm guessing that a composite (lack of a better term) pressure vessel such as the sub would have a known life span? IIRC, for example fire department SCBA bottles. The old steel, slightly newer aluminum had to be hydro tested every so many years but could continue to be used if it passes. The newer fiberglass bottles are, or at least were time limited based on manufacture date. So in theory at least it would work for a known time or so many cycles, but would have a definite life span? If they built production samples and then repetitively tested them until failure (and then built the working version to exactly the same specs), they would have a pretty good idea. Something like "We tested 5 samples. The average lifespan was 15 uses. Minimum was 12, and maximum was 20. Therefore, we're only going to use the vehicle 8 times". Sounds like this company really didn't do any of that. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:47:25 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do we need to start a new thread every time there's any news? We need an imploding submarine forum |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:49:04 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They paid their money, took their chances, and now they can be shipped home inside a FedEx envelope. They are home. A few pieces might be pulled up but realistically they already had their burial. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:50:10 PM EST
[#17]
They are sadly all dead
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:50:21 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have they done this other times or is this the first time it was fully manned? It was the third or forth dive to the Titanic. There are accounts of previous customers sharing their expediences on that sub. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:52:39 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are home. A few pieces might be pulled up but realistically they already had their burial. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They paid their money, took their chances, and now they can be shipped home inside a FedEx envelope. They are home. A few pieces might be pulled up but realistically they already had their burial. Make their families pay for the "rescue" If they refuse to pay, seize their funds. The American Taxpayer is not the payee for Darwin awards.. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:56:38 PM EST
[#20]
USCG press conference in 4 minutes.
 Coast Guard confirms Titanic submersible imploded with no survivors - 6/22 (FULL STREAM) |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:57:22 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was only about a couple thousand feet down. Wasn’t even half way to depth when that piece of shit tin can failed. I think they had several instances where they lost comms on the way up or down, so loosing comms is not a definitive point of failure. Not coming back up after the normal amount of time though was. From reading this sub takes around 2-2.5 hours to get to depth and then they look around for just over an hour and then start the accent. The total operation takes around 10 for longer dives. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:59:10 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think they had several instances where they lost comms on the way up or down, so loosing comms is not a definitive point of failure. Not coming back up after the normal amount of time though was. From reading this sub takes around 2-2.5 hours to get to depth and then they look around for just over an hour and then start the accent. The total operation takes around 10 for longer dives. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It was only about a couple thousand feet down. Wasn’t even half way to depth when that piece of shit tin can failed. I think they had several instances where they lost comms on the way up or down, so loosing comms is not a definitive point of failure. Not coming back up after the normal amount of time though was. From reading this sub takes around 2-2.5 hours to get to depth and then they look around for just over an hour and then start the accent. The total operation takes around 10 for longer dives. I believe they're supposed to have around 4 hours at the wreck. There's a story from last year where they encountered some loss of battery power and had to abort after only 1 hour. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:59:16 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, you don't allow for the possibility that people can be flat out stupid taking chances with their own lives? I don't think I would have trusted my fate to a homemade submarine with a waiver that mentions death several times on the first page. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. So, you don't allow for the possibility that people can be flat out stupid taking chances with their own lives? I don't think I would have trusted my fate to a homemade submarine with a waiver that mentions death several times on the first page. Yeah this. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:59:48 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. Fine, if someone wants to "push boundaries", they can do it on their own dime with the full understanding that if anything should go wrong there is no obligation by anyone, any agency, any government to put together a search and rescue mission paid for by taxpayers. Something goes wrong, you have a mishap, get into a jam? TFB... you knew the risks, you're on your own. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:59:49 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm thinking more like being put in one of those car crushers, probably end up being the size of a softball. A large portion of hte human body is water. That is, for all practical purposes, incompressible. HOWEVER.....there is a fair amount of gasses trapped in selected areas of the human body. THOSE areas ARE compressible. So, in essence, the body would compress in some areas, and not in others. I suspect that would make the form factor of what remains less than looking like a softball, but also less than looking anything close to a human form. I would hazard to say it would look like some blob of stuff. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:01:28 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably answered but... I think they said at that dept...around 5000 Lbs of pressure per square inch. I guess the best comparison that anyone can relate to would be...for every square inch of your body a sedan sitting on top of it, some people like me that is at least 87 sedans.... . Our normal atmosphere (sea level and dry land) = 14-15 Pounds per square inchI would say a hydraulic press that works in 3d+ might be the best to describe what would be left. Can also depend on how the craft imploded as well, this example is basically the outer hull just vanished. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:11:40 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe they're supposed to have around 4 hours at the wreck. There's a story from last year where they encountered some loss of battery power and had to abort after only 1 hour. I got my info from here but it is the internet: https://nypost.com/2023/06/19/inside-the-missing-submarine-that-explores-the-titanic/ From the article: "It took about two hours for the team to make the 2.3-mile descent to the sea floor. The team then spent an hour exploring the bottom before making their ascent. Dives can last up to 10 hours each, and passengers get a bit more space inside than in typical vessels." |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:12:37 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RIP Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. Do you mean like hiring 50 year old white men and not firing the guy who finds big lack of safety systems and components in the tube? How long until we find out if the death waiver will be held legally ok? You know the families will sue. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:12:52 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See the "diesel engine" comparison. The body would be instantly incinerated. Water currents would then carry the ashes away; there's nothing left to collect. If it is the wreck of the submersible, I say leave it there; let it become a part of the ongoing legend of the Titanic.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:14:14 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Should have tested it remotely first. Shouldn't have been hard to work in remote control via attached cable into the design. Attached FileIt's already made trips to the Titanic. 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:14:16 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the video of the lady that got her arm caught in a press, it was flat like a pancake. A "3d press" and a normal press will make two distinct "representations" after they are done. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:14:44 PM EST
[#32]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:14:56 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they built production samples and then repetitively tested them until failure (and then built the working version to exactly the same specs), they would have a pretty good idea. Something like "We tested 5 samples. The average lifespan was 15 uses. Minimum was 12, and maximum was 20. Therefore, we're only going to use the vehicle 8 times". Sounds like this company really didn't do any of that. Thanks for a well reasoned reply. It sounds like a one off deal with out any production testing and thinking it worked once let's keep using it until failure Still scratching my head on the thinking of whoever led this project. I will say again I hate any loss of life generally speaking. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:16:54 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you mean like hiring 50 year old white men and not firing the guy who finds big lack of safety systems and components in the tube? How long until we find out if the death waiver will be held legally ok? You know the families will sue. Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you mean like hiring 50 year old white men and not firing the guy who finds big lack of safety systems and components in the tube? How long until we find out if the death waiver will be held legally ok? You know the families will sue. I think the diversity hire system that was supposed to track this failed... The most significant innovation during the construction of the submersible is its real time hull health monitoring system, according to the company. This onboard health analysis monitoring system provides early warning detection for the pilot with enough time to arrest the descent and safely return to surface,” the company says, by utilizing co-located acoustic sensors and strain gauges throughout to analyze effects of changing pressure as the vessel goes deeper. “The proprietary Real Time Hull Health Monitoring (RTM) systems provides an unparalleled safety feature that assesses the integrity of the hull throughout every dive.” From the same article I linked to just above Then you have the whistle blower on the project: https://www.insider.com/titanic-submersible-only-warns-milliseconds-before-hull-failure-fired-executive-2023-6 A submarine pilot hired to assess the now-missing Titanic submersible warned in 2018 that its hull monitoring system would only detect failure "often milliseconds before an implosion." David Lochridge, a submarine pilot and inspector from Scotland, said in court filings that he was fired after expressing concerns about the safety of the Titan — a 22-foot submersible that disappeared on Sunday while carrying five people to see the wreck of the Titanic. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:17:03 PM EST
[#35]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:17:13 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:18:55 PM EST
[#37]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:21:01 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. It wasn't balls they had, it was money. $250k each |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:22:03 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for a well reasoned reply. It sounds like a one off deal with out any production testing and thinking it worked once let's keep using it until failure Still scratching my head on the thinking of whoever led this project. I will say again I hate any loss of life generally speaking. Well the OceanGate CEO was on board, doubt he will lead another project...... |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:24:19 PM EST
[#40]
They found the front bell now. Basically everything but the containment vessel.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:24:33 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, you don't allow for the possibility that people can be flat out stupid taking chances with their own lives? I don't think I would have trusted my fate to a homemade submarine with a waiver that mentions death several times on the first page. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. So, you don't allow for the possibility that people can be flat out stupid taking chances with their own lives? I don't think I would have trusted my fate to a homemade submarine with a waiver that mentions death several times on the first page. The sub was proven. They also had access to all of the controversial information. It was risky for sure, but I wouldn’t call it stupid. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:27:38 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fine, if someone wants to "push boundaries", they can do it on their own dime with the full understanding that if anything should go wrong there is no obligation by anyone, any agency, any government to put together a search and rescue mission paid for by taxpayers. Something goes wrong, you have a mishap, get into a jam? TFB... you knew the risks, you're on your own. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. Fine, if someone wants to "push boundaries", they can do it on their own dime with the full understanding that if anything should go wrong there is no obligation by anyone, any agency, any government to put together a search and rescue mission paid for by taxpayers. Something goes wrong, you have a mishap, get into a jam? TFB... you knew the risks, you're on your own. Haha. So disband the CG? This is the kind of thing I want my tax dollars spent on. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:27:46 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The real world training is priceless. This, and I can’t understand how this is hard for people to grasp. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:28:36 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you mean like hiring 50 year old white men and not firing the guy who finds big lack of safety systems and components in the tube? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: RIP Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. Do you mean like hiring 50 year old white men and not firing the guy who finds big lack of safety systems and components in the tube? Yep. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:29:17 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The sub was proven. They also had access to all of the controversial information. It was risky for sure, but I wouldn’t call it stupid. It proved it could do it a few times......I give you that but it wasn't tested by ANY regulatory agency on the planet on how much it could handle long term. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:29:35 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They found the front bell now. Basically everything but the containment vessel. Because that is tiny splinters now.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:29:57 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They found the front bell now. Basically everything but the containment vessel. 24 seconds... really? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:31:02 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It wasn't balls they had, it was money. $250k each Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. It wasn't balls they had, it was money. $250k each  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:31:16 PM EST
[#49]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:31:25 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do we need to start a new thread every time there's any news? And yet.............you are here! |
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