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Posted: 6/22/2023 10:28:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Okay, that engineering crew has no idea of what they're doing. Paste adhesive, no thickness control, no mechanical fasteners, and the bondline area is suspect. Glue joints are probably not a problem since pressure will hold it together. Just needs to create a seal really. Carbon fiber drive shafts have the metal end pieces glued on. I’ve been making and testing filament wound pressure vessels for about the last two decades. A wound cylinder can hold tremendous pressure from the inside as the fiber is in tension. That’s where it gets it’s strength. They do an extremely shitty job holding pressure from the outside. The squeezing puts the fibers in compression. The only thing lending strength at that point is the epoxy. Any imperfection in cylinder walls will be the weak spot where the cylinder will buckle. Then the carbon fiber will shatter in a violent implosion. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 10:42:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glue joints are probably not a problem since pressure will hold it together. Just needs to create a seal really. Carbon fiber drive shafts have the metal end pieces glued on. I've been making and testing filament wound pressure vessels for about the last two decades. A wound cylinder can hold tremendous pressure from the inside as the fiber is in tension. That's where it gets it's strength. They do an extremely shitty job holding pressure from the outside. The squeezing puts the fibers in compression. The only thing lending strength at that point is the epoxy. Any imperfection in cylinder walls will be the weak spot where the cylinder will buckle. Then the carbon fiber will shatter in a violent implosion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Okay, that engineering crew has no idea of what they're doing. Paste adhesive, no thickness control, no mechanical fasteners, and the bondline area is suspect. Glue joints are probably not a problem since pressure will hold it together. Just needs to create a seal really. Carbon fiber drive shafts have the metal end pieces glued on. I've been making and testing filament wound pressure vessels for about the last two decades. A wound cylinder can hold tremendous pressure from the inside as the fiber is in tension. That's where it gets it's strength. They do an extremely shitty job holding pressure from the outside. The squeezing puts the fibers in compression. The only thing lending strength at that point is the epoxy. Any imperfection in cylinder walls will be the weak spot where the cylinder will buckle. Then the carbon fiber will shatter in a violent implosion. Did you see the comment about the employee that quit over failure to inspect the cylinder? An important detail is the wall thickness and stiffness of the cylinder. Too wimpy and outside pressure will pop those end caps off from cylinder deflection, despite the compressive end loads. Or cause a leak. As deflections start in the cylinder, the compression load starts nonlinear deflections that rapidly increase toward instability if the shell isn't stiff enough to counter. Any subsurface delamination from rough treatment during handling of the sub? How about the attachment details of the skids, shells, steering motors, and hull penetrations? Heck, I'm impressed there is a fair CTE match. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 10:52:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree. Well, kinda. I would agree that the ultra wealthy probably live in a fantasy world and feel invincible to a degree. However, I bet this was simply a super wealthy dude looking to do something just to say he did it and have something to "one up" all of his wealthy friends. When you've got that kinda money nobody in your social circle cares about your mansions, luxury cars, boats, jets, etc. This was an opportunity to do something rare to stand out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Everyone saying how the billionaires shoulda, coulda, woulda.... I think this is a perfect case study of a human phenomena that I've observed. People who are very wealthy or have had cushy lives have an entitlement mindset that literally makes them think that nothing bad could happen to them. In this case, probably a mindset that was forged because they have been able to buy themselves outta trouble so many times before. Reality is a bitch sitting in the dark on the bottom inside a broken sub. I think its a similar phenomena that has created the rise of all the extreme sports, like base jumping or quadruple back-flip snowboard jumps. All these kids grow up so comfortable, think the world can't hurt 'em. Guess what, buttercup... it can. Not that it's a bad thing that people become daredevils, just interesting I think. I honestly think they don't fully gasp the risks they are taking. Quoted: I agree. This idiot billionaire's ego got into an argument with physics. Physics always wins. I disagree. Well, kinda. I would agree that the ultra wealthy probably live in a fantasy world and feel invincible to a degree. However, I bet this was simply a super wealthy dude looking to do something just to say he did it and have something to "one up" all of his wealthy friends. When you've got that kinda money nobody in your social circle cares about your mansions, luxury cars, boats, jets, etc. This was an opportunity to do something rare to stand out. I'd would bet his personality is very similar to that of base jumpers and free climbers, but just has a bigger budget. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 11:05:56 AM EDT
[#4]
As much as we all hate government regulation and overreach - shit like this is why that exists. As time goes on with this, we are discovering just how mind-blowingly and dangeriously half-assed this whole program was. Dudes were cutting cornerns and making up shit as they went, without knowing what they were doing. And because the first one didn't explode, they got complacent and concluded "everythings fine". Billionares no doubt assumed the operation was a lot more professional and competent than what we are now discovering. My guess is at one point they had a spidy-sense going off on this - but overrode that, because didn't want to lose out on this once-in-a-lifetime unique experience; and were already committed. And the last crew didn't die, so it's probably OK, right?
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Posted: 6/22/2023 11:07:31 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do they even get a permit for that? I assume there are some sort of regulations about diving to a shipwreck? Is this how a free man thinks? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 11:27:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this how a free man thinks? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How do they even get a permit for that? I assume there are some sort of regulations about diving to a shipwreck? Is this how a free man thinks? I'm really surprised by how many people here keep talking about permits and government regulations. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 11:56:37 AM EDT
[#7]
USCG reporting Horizon Arctic’s ROV has discovered a (new) debris field on sea floor near the Titanic.
Press conference at 3pm ET. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:19:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: USCG reporting Horizon Arctic’s ROV has discovered a (new) debris field on sea floor near the Titanic. Press conference at 3pm ET. Ruh roh |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:29:17 PM EDT
[#9]
It will be interesting to see if the Carbon Fiber used didn't hold up to the pressures.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:40:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It will be interesting to see if the Carbon Fiber used didn't hold up to the pressures. University of Wash said he blew up their machine testing a design that imploded a few years ago |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:49:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: USCG reporting Horizon Arctic’s ROV has discovered a (new) debris field on sea floor near the Titanic. Press conference at 3pm ET. 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:53:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Ruh roh Nah, that's good. If option A is slow suffocation I'll take option B inverted kaboom any day. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:13:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah, that's good. If option A is slow suffocation I'll take option B inverted kaboom any day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:Ruh roh Nah, that's good. If option A is slow suffocation I'll take option B inverted kaboom any day. With depletion of oxygen, wouldn't you just get sleepy, and not wake up though? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:24:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:With depletion of oxygen, wouldn't you just get sleepy, and not wake up though? ETA having no experience with either I'll edit and correct if wrong. Plenty of smarter people here than I. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:22:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that's how it is with carbon monoxide (running car in a garage), not CO2, which would involve a lot more gasping and panicking as the body recognizes there's problem (like when you hold your breath as long as you can). ETA having no experience with either I'll edit and correct if wrong. Plenty of smarter people here than I. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:With depletion of oxygen, wouldn't you just get sleepy, and not wake up though? ETA having no experience with either I'll edit and correct if wrong. Plenty of smarter people here than I. Seems to me there would be gasping. Are you still conscious at that point? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:34:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Imagine if they've actually resurfaced and are bobbing in the North Atlantic waves staring at the sky, slowly suffocating. That would suck
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Posted: 6/22/2023 2:54:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm really surprised by how many people here keep talking about permits and government regulations. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How do they even get a permit for that? I assume there are some sort of regulations about diving to a shipwreck? Is this how a free man thinks? I'm really surprised by how many people here keep talking about permits and government regulations. I don't believe in government intervention, but shit like this is how you get government intervention. Titanic has been extensively photographed and scanned. Leave it alone like the grave it is. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:28:47 PM EDT
[#18]
The tail cone was found intact 1600ft away from the Titanic.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:36:03 PM EDT
[#19]
My highlights of the 3pm USGS press conference:
ROV from Horizon Arctic discovered tail cone approximately 1600' from Titanic bow. Distance subsequently contradicted by an "undersea expert", who stated 200 meters. ROV subsequently discovered two debris fields - one containing the titanium bow cap and the other containing the aft titanium cap, as well as other debris. Debris consistent with catastrophic pressure vessel failure. Families notified. Debris fields are in an area that is "smooth bottom", free from Titanic debris. CG assets did not hear an implosion after CG assets got on scene, implying implosion occurred before they arrived. Hence, knocking unrelated. Will begin to demobilize many CG personal on scene, but will continue remote sea floor operations for some time. Presser ended after a number of really stupid questions. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:45:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Aye matey,
Tho the Titanic is dead, she still beckons. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:13:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With depletion of oxygen, wouldn't you just get sleepy, and not wake up though? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted:Ruh roh Nah, that's good. If option A is slow suffocation I'll take option B inverted kaboom any day. With depletion of oxygen, wouldn't you just get sleepy, and not wake up though? A) How many days could 5 men sit indian style without ever standing up or stretching out. B) How long in the pitch-black before the first person has a mental break and goes mad? It would have been psychological torture in there had the vessel remained intact. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:15:08 PM EDT
[#22]
This thread did not age well.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:31:52 PM EDT
[#23]
The sounds they heard were the other crew members banging on the cabin walls to try to escape the massive turd one of the other members left in that toilet thing.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 6:12:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't believe in government intervention, but shit like this is how you get government intervention. Titanic has been extensively photographed and scanned. Leave it alone like the grave it is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How do they even get a permit for that? I assume there are some sort of regulations about diving to a shipwreck? Is this how a free man thinks? I'm really surprised by how many people here keep talking about permits and government regulations. I don't believe in government intervention, but shit like this is how you get government intervention. Titanic has been extensively photographed and scanned. Leave it alone like the grave it is. I agree. I feel bad for the poor souls who lost their lives. However, my thinking for the last day has been that this will be yet another reason for the statists to proclaim that big government is good, badly needed. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 6:37:10 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:05:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that's how it is with carbon monoxide (running car in a garage), not CO2, which would involve a lot more gasping and panicking as the body recognizes there's problem (like when you hold your breath as long as you can). ETA having no experience with either I'll edit and correct if wrong. Plenty of smarter people here than I. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:With depletion of oxygen, wouldn't you just get sleepy, and not wake up though? ETA having no experience with either I'll edit and correct if wrong. Plenty of smarter people here than I. I wasn't aware that there were different kinds of hypoxia? I figured hypoxia that pilots and astronauts experience would be the same as running out of O2 in a pressure vessel? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:11:25 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 8:13:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Another Simpsons Conspiracy!
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Posted: 6/22/2023 9:45:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wasn't aware that there were different kinds of hypoxia? I figured hypoxia that pilots and astronauts experience would be the same as running out of O2 in a pressure vessel? My understanding is that it’s the CO2 that causes all the bad things. Hypoxia in the absence of CO2 is like going to sleep. Hypoxia in the presence of CO2 is “OMG were suffocating and we’re all gonna die!!!” |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 10:00:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Would the "oxygen" they had left, which they were breathing then turning to c02 gas, change the density of the "gas" in the cabin making it structurally weaker due to a less dense less psi gas inside?
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Posted: 6/23/2023 1:58:32 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 6/23/2023 5:16:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This particular billionaire was an 'explorer' and has done countless things like this. He flew on one of Bezos rockets IIRC. I'd would bet his personality is very similar to that of base jumpers and free climbers, but just has a bigger budget. Probably not a good comparison These are the sorts of peoplewho buy canned hunts in a fenced in area. Not the sort that scout a buck for weeks, then spends time in atree stand hoping to see him. Not the sort of billionaires that buys a WWII fighter or cold war jet and learns to fly it himself - and some arent good students and kill themselves that way They are buying an adventure. These things are exclusive because they are priced so high, for now. If blue origin and space ex only charged $10 for an orbital flight, and lots of the riff raff bought tickets, they would look for something else. I doubt its entirely for the adreniline rush. Some of it is one upsmanship over the other billionaires in the social circles. They are paying someone else to do rhe heavy lifting, carry the gear up the slope, maintain and operate something complex like a rocket or sub. They are just oaying for a seat or a walk, So I dont think even remotely the same sort of personality |
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Posted: 6/23/2023 5:19:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that's how it is with carbon monoxide (running car in a garage), not CO2, which would involve a lot more gasping and panicking as the body recognizes there's problem (like when you hold your breath as long as you can). ETA having no experience with either I'll edit and correct if wrong. Plenty of smarter people here than I. I have personally witnessed a hog house piglet get CO2’d and let’s just say it was disturbing. |
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Posted: 6/23/2023 5:30:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have personally witnessed a hog house piglet get CO2’d and let’s just say it was disturbing. ive been inside spaces with large quantities of dry ice.... its fucking unbearable. but thats walking in from fresh air to a wall of c02...different than gradually increasing c02 over X amount of time. |
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Posted: 6/23/2023 7:12:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryWhat is that? Source? |
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Posted: 6/23/2023 9:40:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would the "oxygen" they had left, which they were breathing then turning to c02 gas, change the density of the "gas" in the cabin making it structurally weaker due to a less dense less psi gas inside? 1 atmosphere won't be much help in the fight against 400 atmospheres. |
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Posted: 6/23/2023 9:53:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you see the comment about the employee that quit over failure to inspect the cylinder? An important detail is the wall thickness and stiffness of the cylinder. Too wimpy and outside pressure will pop those end caps off from cylinder deflection, despite the compressive end loads. Or cause a leak. As deflections start in the cylinder, the compression load starts nonlinear deflections that rapidly increase toward instability if the shell isn't stiff enough to counter. Any subsurface delamination from rough treatment during handling of the sub? How about the attachment details of the skids, shells, steering motors, and hull penetrations? Heck, I'm impressed there is a fair CTE match. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Okay, that engineering crew has no idea of what they're doing. Paste adhesive, no thickness control, no mechanical fasteners, and the bondline area is suspect. An important detail is the wall thickness and stiffness of the cylinder. Too wimpy and outside pressure will pop those end caps off from cylinder deflection, despite the compressive end loads. Or cause a leak. As deflections start in the cylinder, the compression load starts nonlinear deflections that rapidly increase toward instability if the shell isn't stiff enough to counter. Any subsurface delamination from rough treatment during handling of the sub? How about the attachment details of the skids, shells, steering motors, and hull penetrations? Heck, I'm impressed there is a fair CTE match. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mSq6ibKKXQ |
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Posted: 6/23/2023 10:06:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is that? Source? Quote HistoryQuoted: What is that? Source? It's apparently dry ice and liquid nitrogen in a container. https://imgur.com/Ihyk23j https://old.reddit.com/r/shockwaveporn/comments/eisakz/underwater_explosion/  Attached File |
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