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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:04:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, there has been a debris field down there for the better part of 111 years. And that debris field is "near" Titanic. Actually, it is Titanic. In all seriousness though, I think that's probably a wrap on this. If they put out a release that says they found a debris field, that's the sub. It imploded. I said several pages back that if it imploded, the debris would be obvious to an ROV. It would quite literally stick out like a sore thumb, as the area is already well-mapped and titanium, computer parts, and assorted other modern non-rusty components were going to always be an anomaly in the area. With the news that the thing the banging on the audio was background noise, that they found this supposed debris field, that they lost contact so early on, etc., I think it's definitely reasonable to conclude at this point that it imploded on the way down, early into the mission. Very sad outcome, but not an unexpected one. At least it was probably quick. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:
I mean, there has been a debris field down there for the better part of 111 years. And that debris field is "near" Titanic. Actually, it is Titanic. In all seriousness though, I think that's probably a wrap on this. If they put out a release that says they found a debris field, that's the sub. It imploded. I said several pages back that if it imploded, the debris would be obvious to an ROV. It would quite literally stick out like a sore thumb, as the area is already well-mapped and titanium, computer parts, and assorted other modern non-rusty components were going to always be an anomaly in the area. With the news that the thing the banging on the audio was background noise, that they found this supposed debris field, that they lost contact so early on, etc., I think it's definitely reasonable to conclude at this point that it imploded on the way down, early into the mission. Very sad outcome, but not an unexpected one. At least it was probably quick. One minor curiosity left for me: what is the timing of the distress signal that the mothership received? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:04:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They probably lost comms the second it imploded. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm honestly surprised they found debris, I thought the seafloor would be too big for that. Seems the Billionaires elected to continue to the site even after losing comms. "Get-there-itis" They probably lost comms the second it imploded. Would they have found enough material to call a "debris field" if the implosion hadn't occurred near the sea floor? When they lost comms, they had at least 15-20 minutes left in their descent. I would think that at that point, the pieces would drift and be too scattered to find |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:05:06 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:06:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly I figured it was probably noise from the oil fields a couple hundred miles away. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The 'banging' detected by rescuers in the hunt for the missing Titan submarine appears to have been just "background ocean noise", it is revealed as the craft passes the crucial 96-hour oxygen point on Thursday. The U.S. Coast Guard Rear Admiral leading the response to the dissapearance of the submersible Titan off the wreckage of the RMS Titanic in the northwest Atlantic has dashed the hopes of many that the detection of a banging noice in the sea may lead rescuers to the stricken craft. Speaking to Britain's Sky News television channel, Rear Admiral John Mauger said that while the noises detected were still being analysed, it appeared that what had previously been characterised by banging as some was actually "background ocean noise". The search was ongoing despite the analysis, the officer said, and that he was in contact with the families of those onboard. The thing I read/heard was banging every 30 minutes. How often does a new drill stem get entered on a drilling rig in operation? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:06:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not a safe thread anymore. Safe to say they are dead |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:07:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet any human remains were instantly shredded in the milliseconds-long storm of carbon fiber fragments and all the other bits and pieces that were suddenly moving at 4000 mph. I dunno; it's really hard to grasp the violence of such an implosion. That's not meant to be irreverent or insensitive. It actually wouldn't be a bad way to go... you would basically just 'cease to be'. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: My bet, based on the dive bell autopsy reports shared earlier, and significantly lower/opposite pressures, the five man crew would be essentially vaporized and burnt by the highly pressurized breathing air spontaneously combusting. The only pieces left intact would be the two titanium end pieces. The CF would likely be disintegrated and scattered, but there would definitely be identifiable human remains, at least for a brief period. There isn't much protein at that depth, so they would not last long. Bone fragments would take longer, but would also eventually be consumed. Of course, there would be very little chance of discovering either before they were gone given the area, depth, and conditions But almost everything else on board would likely survive for an extended period, albeit in various states of mangled. Some of it should also surface, like perhaps the seating pads and plastic bits, but given the size of the ocean, finding any of it would require quite a bit of luck. That said, I would not at all be surprised if folks start start claiming they found the seat pads, game controller(s), and/or anything else they can buy off amazon and soak in a bucket of salt water before trying to make a buck. I bet any human remains were instantly shredded in the milliseconds-long storm of carbon fiber fragments and all the other bits and pieces that were suddenly moving at 4000 mph. I dunno; it's really hard to grasp the violence of such an implosion. That's not meant to be irreverent or insensitive. It actually wouldn't be a bad way to go... you would basically just 'cease to be'. Certainly could be. Either way, I suspect they will be very hesitant to show any video of a debris field for fear they might inadvertently release a segment containing visible remains, however small. My bet is that they will release a still frame of a tight shot of something that is indisputability associated with the craft, preferably something from the interior or a segment of the pressure hull, to provide definitive proof that the occupants are deceased. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:08:21 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm sure this is a nationwide meme
from the NH subreddit 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:09:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Safe to say they are dead Yep, died on the day before the story broke, just as many here speculated. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:09:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s not good, but definitely better than sitting in that thing for four days going mad and slowly suffocating |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:09:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Debris field?
I suspect the lithium batteries caused this |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:09:15 PM EDT
[#11]
What was the sub built out of besides carbon fiber ? High strength steel etc ? What does the debris field consist of?
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:09:35 PM EDT
[#12]
If this turns out to be exactly where they thought It was, then it imploded on Sunday, and they have known all this time.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:09:43 PM EDT
[#13]
If the CG stated they found a debris field then obviously it was not what was already there.
Our CG know the difference between old and new trash. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:10:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would they have found enough material to call a "debris field" if the implosion hadn't occurred near the sea floor? When they lost comms, they had at least 15-20 minutes left in their descent. I would think that at that point, the pieces would drift and be too scattered to find Depending on the descent rate they were probably very close to the Titanic. The lower it goes, the slower it goes. 15-20 minutes away from the target could have it less than 1000 yards away from it. The denser the water the slower the sink rate. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:10:12 PM EDT
[#15]
The last sound they heard was "crackle".
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:10:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Debris field? I suspect the lithium batteries caused this Bold of you to assume the CEO ponied up for lithium. Lead batteries are so much cheaper. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:11:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was the sub built out of besides carbon fiber ? High strength steel etc ? What does the debris field consist of? Debris |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:11:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If this turns out to be exactly where they thought It was, then it imploded on Sunday, and they have known all this time. Yep OceanGate knew it was dieseled when it happened. They heard it no doubt. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:11:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If this turns out to be exactly where they thought It was, then it imploded on Sunday, and they have known all this time. Like Bruce Willis they've been dead this whole time. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:12:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the CG stated they found a debris field then obviously it was not what was already there. Our CG know the difference between old and new trash. Once they recognize it then they will need time top notify the families first. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:12:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If this turns out to be exactly where they thought It was, then it imploded on Sunday, and they have known all this time. Yeah. Again, what was known to the mother ship in real time will be fascinating. Everything after Sunday afternoon is just drama. *GOOD* drama, but drama. Regardless of all that, I'm glad some of our assets got some real-world training and it was awesome to see private exploration companies show up to help. Good job by everyone involved. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:13:08 PM EDT
[#22]
[tweet]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:13:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the consevative's handicap. The left wil accepept ANY incremantal gain when a conservative is only happy with perfection. This may be the most intelligent thing I’ve ever read on arfcom. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:13:37 PM EDT
[#24]
sorry for whatever reason the tweet wouldnt show for me so i tried to fix it and then it was working. 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:13:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are the costs to do this in a vehicle carries an independent 4000m classification certification? Perhaps an order of magnitude greater on a per-passenger basis? This guy is trying to open up deepwater exploration at a more achievable price, and at the same time, have enough margin so the revenue goes to fund the ocean research efforts of others. There are going to be a lot of trade-offs in such an endeavor. The pushback on his comments about looking for younger engineering teams? Look, that is a common characteristic of agile design environments of small scale companies. A number of reasons for that, and virtually none of them for the reasons spouted by armchair pontiffs. Everything is tug of war between money, time and quality. It's an experimental vehicle. Clients know this. This company may very well be the only company offering such a thing. A venture down there in a classed-vessel may not even be purchasable - maybe through hard fought negotiation, larger sums of money, and so forth, but has anyone ever done that? There used to be another company that did this, iirc. Probably 15 years ago, maybe more. I think the rate back then was $60k a person, but I can't remember all the details, or why that company got out of the business of doing it. My issue with the characterization of the clients as complete dumbasses in all of this is along the lines of what you're saying: there's no one else offering this. People have wanted to dive this wreck for a long time, and few have stepped to the plate to offer it. I'm sure calls are are made now and then to places like Woods Hole and other agencies who have deep-water submersibles capable of reaching Titanic and the response is typically "we don't do tourism" or "we're not for hire" or "we only do scientific and academic research". And yeah, billionaires could maybe afford to buy their own subs, lease their own ships and crews, etc. to do it, but like most others, they try to rely on people who have been working on the problem for a while to make the trip work. Oceangate has presented itself as a well-run, professional expedition team and managed to cover up many of it's shortcomings until now. I think that people tend to get more desperate and more accepting of risk of other options aren't there/made available. Those with unlimited cash, however, I can see the point in deprecating a bit over the fact they could literally have the best stuff in the world made available to them through purchase and it would never touch their bottom lines. I do think that the mockery that has been made of them and their deaths is over the top though. These guys were just trying to fulfill a lifelong dream, in one of the most inhospitable environments on earth. They shouldn't be slated over that. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:13:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once they recognize it then they will need time top notify the families first. I'd venture a guess that they were notified hours ago. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:14:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Maybe we leave Titanic alone now? That ship claimed enough lives.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:14:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Ocean gate website has been nuked. Atleast for me.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:15:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once they recognize it then they will need time top notify the families first. The families already knew the fate. OceanGate knew also and they wasted millions of taxpayer dollars searching for another of the Titanic’s ghosts. That propane tank didn’t failed quietly. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:15:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would they have found enough material to call a "debris field" if the implosion hadn't occurred near the sea floor? When they lost comms, they had at least 15-20 minutes left in their descent. I would think that at that point, the pieces would drift and be too scattered to find Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm honestly surprised they found debris, I thought the seafloor would be too big for that. Seems the Billionaires elected to continue to the site even after losing comms. "Get-there-itis" They probably lost comms the second it imploded. Would they have found enough material to call a "debris field" if the implosion hadn't occurred near the sea floor? When they lost comms, they had at least 15-20 minutes left in their descent. I would think that at that point, the pieces would drift and be too scattered to find Not necessarily. The complete, intact sub has a certain amount of buoyancy, even in descent. Post implosion, many smaller pieces, now without the buoyancy of the void inside the hull, would descend exponentially faster. The titanium end caps, cell phones, monitors, etc, would head for the bottom pretty quick with a LOT less time for current drift. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:16:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The last sound they heard was "crackle". Or maybe the CEO saying "Oh shit." |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:16:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing I read/heard was banging every 30 minutes. How often does a new drill stem get entered on a drilling rig in operation? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 'banging' detected by rescuers in the hunt for the missing Titan submarine appears to have been just "background ocean noise", it is revealed as the craft passes the crucial 96-hour oxygen point on Thursday. The U.S. Coast Guard Rear Admiral leading the response to the dissapearance of the submersible Titan off the wreckage of the RMS Titanic in the northwest Atlantic has dashed the hopes of many that the detection of a banging noice in the sea may lead rescuers to the stricken craft. Speaking to Britain's Sky News television channel, Rear Admiral John Mauger said that while the noises detected were still being analysed, it appeared that what had previously been characterised by banging as some was actually "background ocean noise". The search was ongoing despite the analysis, the officer said, and that he was in contact with the families of those onboard. The thing I read/heard was banging every 30 minutes. How often does a new drill stem get entered on a drilling rig in operation? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:16:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah. Again, what was known to the mother ship in real time will be fascinating. Everything after Sunday afternoon is just drama. *GOOD* drama, but drama. Regardless of all that, I'm glad some of our assets got some real-world training and it was awesome to see private exploration companies show up to help. Good job by everyone involved. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If this turns out to be exactly where they thought It was, then it imploded on Sunday, and they have known all this time. Yeah. Again, what was known to the mother ship in real time will be fascinating. Everything after Sunday afternoon is just drama. *GOOD* drama, but drama. Regardless of all that, I'm glad some of our assets got some real-world training and it was awesome to see private exploration companies show up to help. Good job by everyone involved. Yep, top notch work. Great job everybody, we really came together as a team. Why don't we take 5? Smoke 'em if you got 'em. 
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:17:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep OceanGate knew it was dieseled when it happened. They heard it no doubt. And that deserves criminal investigation. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:17:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe we leave Titanic alone now? That ship claimed enough lives. This |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:18:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ocean gate website has been nuked. Atleast for me. Yep it's gone LOL |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:18:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My issue with the characterization of the clients as complete dumbasses in all of this You definitely have a unique stance/background from which to offer a unique perspective on this. I hope someone takes what is being learned from this and makes a better process and this becomes a reality. Sub diving isn't for me (snorkeling is my depth limit) but it's neat to think this could one day be a reality. Lots of 'what not to do' has been learned this week. I bet there are companies making plans right now. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:18:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: [tweet]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:19:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If this turns out to be exactly where they thought It was, then it imploded on Sunday, and they have known all this time. Probably not "known", but "assumed" or "highly suspected". It's not the kind of stuff you can take to the public without having irrefutable evidence of what happened. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:19:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One minor curiosity left for me: what is the timing of the distress signal that the mothership received? That is something I'd like them to explain at the press conference if they indeed confirm they found wreckage. I think a lot of information during this process was intentionally withheld. And like most somewhat fast-moving news stories with little information, the information that does get out can be inaccurate. Maybe what they received wasn't a distress signal, or maybe there was nothing. This is going to be a months-long thing I think, and I'm sure there will be a US-led investigation into the company. A lot of information about this is going to come out, sooner or later. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:20:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This person doesn't understand that the news they are dead isn't devastating to the Titan crew. They already knew. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: [tweet]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:21:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that people tend to get more desperate and more accepting of risk of other options aren't there/made available. Those with unlimited cash, however, I can see the point in deprecating a bit over the fact they could literally have the best stuff in the world made available to them through purchase and it would never touch their bottom lines. I do think that the mockery that has been made of them and their deaths is over the top though. These guys were just trying to fulfill a lifelong dream, in one of the most inhospitable environments on earth. They shouldn't be slated over that. This site makes fun of darwin award winners. Anyone who would go 12K deep and depend on a bluetooth game controller is a darwin award candidate. The woke CEO is the icing on the cake. Besides the 19 year old I feel sorry for none of them. And because of the wokeness I hope they get mocked for years. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:22:09 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:22:37 PM EDT
[#44]
So this CEO guy lied about Boeing, University of Wash, NASA having to do with this sub
This guy is a shyster |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:23:01 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:23:03 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:23:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Imagine some smarmy billionaire CEO saying "Remember when I said this was dangerous folks?" as the very last thing you heard.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:23:14 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There used to be another company that did this, iirc. Probably 15 years ago, maybe more. I think the rate back then was $60k a person, but I can't remember all the details, or why that company got out of the business of doing it. My issue with the characterization of the clients as complete dumbasses in all of this is along the lines of what you're saying: there's no one else offering this. People have wanted to dive this wreck for a long time, and few have stepped to the plate to offer it. I'm sure calls are are made now and then to places like Woods Hole and other agencies who have deep-water submersibles capable of reaching Titanic and the response is typically "we don't do tourism" or "we're not for hire" or "we only do scientific and academic research". And yeah, billionaires could maybe afford to buy their own subs, lease their own ships and crews, etc. to do it, but like most others, they try to rely on people who have been working on the problem for a while to make the trip work. Oceangate has presented itself as a well-run, professional expedition team and managed to cover up many of it's shortcomings until now. I think that people tend to get more desperate and more accepting of risk of other options aren't there/made available. Those with unlimited cash, however, I can see the point in deprecating a bit over the fact they could literally have the best stuff in the world made available to them through purchase and it would never touch their bottom lines. I do think that the mockery that has been made of them and their deaths is over the top though. These guys were just trying to fulfill a lifelong dream, in one of the most inhospitable environments on earth. They shouldn't be slated over that. Mount Everest is littered with dead climbers trying to achieve their lifelong dream. Part of the thrill is cheating death. If Oceangate goes bankrupt because of this, another company will step up to meet the demand because it will always be there. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:23:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So this CEO guy lied about Boeing, University of Wash, NASA having to do with this sub This guy WAS |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 12:23:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s nuked for me Quote HistoryIt imploded |
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