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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:47:46 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was the license plate frame that all the Phoenix PD guys used to rock with the agency radio license number? KOA-789. They're still out there, see them nearly every time I'm out in the city because there's so many of them. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:48:16 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LE can pull up criminal record when they run the plates so the LTC is pointless. You should know this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is a point in your favor, it means that at least you are not a career scumbag. Totality of the circumstances comes into play. As for the cards, that's a Yankee thing. Here, a thin blue line or a 100 club sticker on a hooptie is just a pathetic attempt to appear normal.  LE can pull up criminal record when they run the plates so the LTC is pointless. You should know this. No, are we going to do this BS again? Pulling a criminal record is not automatic and is not tied to the license plate. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:48:25 AM EST
[#3]
Back when I used to breed and sell snakes, I sold some to a guy that was some sort of LE in New Jersey, I think maybe a Trooper. He offered me a couple of cards that would supposedly get me out of a ticket as part of the payment. I declined and just took the money. That's all I know, but he said it was a real thing.
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:49:11 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LE can pull up criminal record when they run the plates so the LTC is pointless. You should know this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is a point in your favor, it means that at least you are not a career scumbag. Totality of the circumstances comes into play. As for the cards, that's a Yankee thing. Here, a thin blue line or a 100 club sticker on a hooptie is just a pathetic attempt to appear normal. LE can pull up criminal record when they run the plates so the LTC is pointless. You should know this. Wrong. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:49:21 AM EST
[#5]
It's real.
I can't be the only Lake Arthur, NM police officer here, can I?????
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:50:16 AM EST
[#6]
I have so many, they come every year, because I participate in so may LEO insurance plans. I get them from NYPD, Suffolk County PD, Nassau County PD, Sergeants Benevolent Association, Detectives Endowment Association, NYS Troopers Surgeons Group (they gave me a picture ID, a badge, and a big car placard too), Suffolk Sherriff's, and a couple of others to boot.
I've used them twice, once unintentionally, once purposefully. Got pulled over in Manhattan, went to give him my license, he saw the card in my wallet, said have a great day doc, and walked away. The other time got pulled over, I apologized for the clear infraction I had just done without him asking, and showed one of the cards, asked if there was any possible courtesy he could extend since I was in a bit of a rush, and he said sure, drive safe. Mostly they gather dust in a stack in my center console, but yes, they are real, and they work. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:50:49 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why wouldn't you write cops? Military I can get, and firemen I can kinda get, but that's a bit hypocritical with cops no? I mean you are charged with enforcing the law, you should be more accountable for your actions than the general public. Where's your line? Let assault slide? DUI slide? @runcible I grew up near a military base and local LE would specifically target soldiers. One town next to the military base was notorious for ticketing people for driving 1 mph over the speed limit. It was so bad that the state shut the city's PD down years ago. The local troopers did have great entertainment screwing around with these cops. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 11:52:56 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up near a military base and local LE would specifically target soldiers. One town next to the military base was notorious for ticketing people for driving 1 mph over the speed limit. It was so bad that the state shut the city's PD down years ago. The local troopers did have great entertainment screwing around with these cops. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why wouldn't you write cops? Military I can get, and firemen I can kinda get, but that's a bit hypocritical with cops no? I mean you are charged with enforcing the law, you should be more accountable for your actions than the general public. Where's your line? Let assault slide? DUI slide? @runcible I grew up near a military base and local LE would specifically target soldiers. One town next to the military base was notorious for ticketing people for driving 1 mph over the speed limit. It was so bad that the state shut the city's PD down years ago. The local troopers did have great entertainment screwing around with these cops. Here we go again. Name of the base and city? |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:06:06 PM EST
[#9]
Had one many years ago when I was a delivery driver for a business that had some 'shady connections - dealings', is all I'll say.
Signed by Police Chief and in bold letters was printed "PLEASE EXTEND PROFESSIONAL COURTESY". Also was issued a concealed carry permit in the State of my previous residence when it nearly impossible to obtain unless 'you knew someone'. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:06:24 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, are we going to do this BS again? Pulling a criminal record is not automatic and is not tied to the license plate. I guess the LE I personally know and ones that I've asked have lied about being able to tell who I was before they walked up to my car. I thought there was a way to run a quick check registered owner and then run the records. Am I mistaken? As an example, I had one LEO running a speed trap issue me a "No Insurance" ticket because he refused to run my plates, which would verify I had insurance. I asked him why he wouldn't do this and he explained that if he ran my plates and it came back that I was a bad guy that he'd have to arrest me but he didn't want to ruin my 3 day weekend. You didn't address my LTC reference. So, I'll add this - I was pulled over for having no plates and after running my DL I was let go so then I asked why. He said I was a good guy. So I asked if it was because he could tell I had an LTC, the officer just laughed and responded that he had just arrested an LTC holder. I've also had this discussion when demanded to show my stamps. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:10:04 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. Answered/questioned in another response. Why run plates then? Why do many officers sit so long in their cars before walking up to the driver? |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:10:54 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had one many years ago when I was a delivery driver for a business that had some 'shady connections - dealings', is all I'll say. Signed by Police Chief and in bold letters was printed "PLEASE EXTEND PROFESSIONAL COURTESY". 
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:13:13 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here we go again. Name of the base and city? Ft Hood Nolanville But since you're from Austin, I don't know if you knew how bad it was there. I'm not sure how things are now since the state tried to clean up that town. Are you going to challenge this? |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:14:13 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LE can pull up criminal record when they run the plates so the LTC is pointless. You should know this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is a point in your favor, it means that at least you are not a career scumbag. Totality of the circumstances comes into play. As for the cards, that's a Yankee thing. Here, a thin blue line or a 100 club sticker on a hooptie is just a pathetic attempt to appear normal. LE can pull up criminal record when they run the plates so the LTC is pointless. You should know this. Unless the system is down or it’s not a traffic stop but a pedestrian stop. Do you guys comment on other professions you have no experience with either? |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:14:48 PM EST
[#15]
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:21:10 PM EST
[#16]
When my grandma bought a pistol in Detroit the cop that approved her pistol permit wrote on the back that she could carry it and wrote a phone number on the back. This was pre shall issue permits.
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:25:41 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We don't have to repeat history. Some just choose to. Do you think any of the litany of great nations that litter the ash heap of history deliberately chose to self destruct? We aren’t bound by history, but we are bound by human nature. Everyone thinks they aren’t like those other guys. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:31:21 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's just a generic LBA card it probably won't do much good even in NYC. It has the retiree's name on it, FWIW. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:32:25 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember the thread, don't believe I posted. My opinion would remain the same. Feel free to search and post if you'd like Fucking Dan Bilzerian Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: From reading this thread, I don't understand how Hillary lost. Seems to be plenty here who support the idea that consequences are only for the low level peasants without connections. Again, it all starts somewhere. Find that mirror, boys and girls. To look in the mirror would be to admit guilt. Tyrants believe they are above the law I wonder what you posted in the thread about that podunk agency in New Mexico that was selling badges to big names in gun industry? I'll bet it would be revealing.  I remember the thread, don't believe I posted. My opinion would remain the same. Feel free to search and post if you'd like Fucking Dan Bilzerian Mark LaRue of LaRue Tactical and NRA Board Member Duane Liptak of Magpul Industries. Also former Navy SEAL Mark Luttrell was part of it too. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:32:30 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ft Hood Nolanville But since you're from Austin, I don't know if you knew how bad it was there. I'm not sure how things are now since the state tried to clean up that town. Are you going to challenge this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here we go again. Name of the base and city? Ft Hood Nolanville But since you're from Austin, I don't know if you knew how bad it was there. I'm not sure how things are now since the state tried to clean up that town. Are you going to challenge this? Interesting, since there is no record of such from TCOLE. (Yes, it's public info) Was it in the last 40 years? Nolanville is about 4K population today, it has according to their website, 9 officers. When you were growing up it was probably closer to 500 and ONE officer. Now, if you want an example of a dept censured by the state, I suggest you look at Jonestown. It did not involve traffic enforcement though and was not shut down by the state. (Shenanigans over grant money) |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:33:10 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would they show you a PBA card instead of their retired creds? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not a thing in FL. When I was pushing a marked unit in South Florida, retired NYPD guys and their family members would flash the PBA Courtesy Cards. I just laughed. Why would they show you a PBA card instead of their retired creds? |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:33:29 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless the system is down or it’s not a traffic stop but a pedestrian stop. Do you guys comment on other professions you have no experience with either? I comment when I get different answers from the same profession. It seems that LE here can't even agree. For the most part, Texans don't like to walk so the pedestrian stops tend to be in certain areas where the local dislike/mistrust LE. The last time LE stopped me when I was walking was out of boredom and wanted to talk about my GSD. I live in a boring community. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:37:18 PM EST
[#23]
Major currency in New York.
I knew a guy who knew a guy once who painted his EZPass bright orange, drove a shit, tinted out, impala (remember the early 2000's when those happened?) and had an EMT badge that looked like an NYPD detective shield. Allegedly he got pulled over doing like 110+mph and when the guy came up to the window he flipped his badge open and said something like "What the fuck do you want?" And the cop apologized and walked away...always wondered if that was true. In New York, a cop would have to commit murder (and even maybe not then) to get arrested for something unless it was a PR issue. My friend (a cop) used to take his GTO out on the highway to do 130+mph, pulled over many times, no tickets. Every so often you'll see a bunch of FDNY/NYPD guys wrap up a car and all die - it's because they literally all (of a certain age) drive like that all the time. Wish we were more like the South. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:38:30 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow... that's abstract If you haven't been paying any attention to this country for the past decade, you would know we are on a crash course for a civil war. Shit... we're in cold civil war now, waiting to go hot. There are 2 sides. Those who worship the State and We The People. Us lowlife peasants don't care much for corruption from those that We employ Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The country is due for a violent reset. The hard-working honest citizens appreciate you identifying early whose side you will be fighting for. There is is folks, the "I'm gonna kill you over a traffic ticket somebody else didn't get" post. I'm surprised it took this long.  Wow... that's abstract If you haven't been paying any attention to this country for the past decade, you would know we are on a crash course for a civil war. Shit... we're in cold civil war now, waiting to go hot. There are 2 sides. Those who worship the State and We The People. Us lowlife peasants don't care much for corruption from those that We employ The honest truth is that those on the Right are just as power hungry and authoritarian as the Left is. They are loons, kooks, and crazies that exist in vapid echo chambers just as the Leftists. The idea of actual liberty or freedom scares the piss out of them because they're afraid someone might be different than them in looks, religious beliefs, ethnicity, etc.... and that applies to both sides. The only difference between the Left and the Right is which group of Centrists they want to destroy first. But the majority of Americans want nothing to do with the vocal few that drive this bullshit. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:38:49 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of the most blatantly corrupt police agencies are rural, and southern. But let's not talk about that, m'kay? Remove southern. The latitude doesn't matter. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:38:50 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seen it here in AZ... AZDPS Chief You talking about the incident that just blew up all over the news? Kind of illustrates the opposite. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:38:54 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I comment when I get different answers from the same profession. It seems that LE here can't even agree. For the most part, Texans don't like to walk so the pedestrian stops tend to be in certain areas where the local dislike/mistrust LE. The last time LE stopped me when I was walking was out of boredom and wanted to talk about my GSD. I live in a boring community.  Is there such a thing as a crawfish smiley? |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:39:09 PM EST
[#28]
My Uncle was a local cop. He had this large metal badge mounted on the rear dashboard so you could see it from behind. I guess that was to tell other cops he was one of their own.
Funny Story: Mid Seventies. He picks up two hippies hitchhiking while in his personal car. They thank him for the ride and offer to share a joint with him. He declines the offer but doesn't care if they want to lite up. After passing the joint between the two of them my uncle asks to see it. He holds it up in front of his face and comments on the quality roll job. They thanked him for the compliment but cautioned that he should not blatantly wave it around like that. In all this rush hour traffic someone could see it and he could get pulled over. He told them that would not be a problem as he had that big shield in the back window. "What does that mean?" asked one. The other screamed "It means he's a cop!" At which point they both bailed just as the car was slowing up at a red light. 
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:40:09 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Formalized discretion is corruption. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:40:45 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting, since there is no record of such from TCOLE. (Yes, it's public info) Was it in the last 40 years? YES. It was a BIG DEAL. VERY BIG. The police would even issue tickets outside their jurisdiction so the local troopers would play the "speeders" and radio the hot pursuit to get the locals all excited. The small town had a very large police department that was their major source of revenue so the fallout was epic. I'm sure there are many members here that were stationed there during the 70s & 80s that can confirm how corrupt that town was. Soldiers were easy bait since these young guys were knew to the area and had no clue how bad it was. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:41:45 PM EST
[#31]
Northern California motor cop here for the past 18 years---never seen or been shown one...
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:42:30 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's a little piece of life advice. Don't get shitty with other people when the world doesn't conform to the perfect version that exists in your head. It's your problem, not theirs. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 12:46:18 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting, since there is no record of such from TCOLE. (Yes, it's public info) Was it in the last 40 years? Nolanville is about 4K population today, it has according to their website, 9 officers. When you were growing up it was probably closer to 500 and ONE officer. Now, if you want an example of a dept censured by the state, I suggest you look at Jonestown. It did not involve traffic enforcement though and was not shut down by the state. (Shenanigans over grant money) The city had a population of about 500 and a police department about twice the number of officers (IIRC) what they have today. They had to eliminate the majority of the PD. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 1:08:12 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You talking about the incident that just blew up all over the news? Kind of illustrates the opposite. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Seen it here in AZ... AZDPS Chief You talking about the incident that just blew up all over the news? Kind of illustrates the opposite. Haven't watch much local news, so can't comment on what you're referencing. I'm referring to physically watching the Chief (Colonel, Director, whatever they call it)of AZDPS himself personally hand one to my boss as I sat 2 feet from him. Maybe less than 9 months ago this occurred. @FightingHellfish |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 2:16:47 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LE can pull up criminal record when they run the plates so the LTC is pointless. You should know this. That depends entirely on the state. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 2:19:54 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I once stopped a USAF major, a pilot out of Dyess. Let him go with a warning to turn his headlights on. (11 at night on the interstate) He filed a complaint against me, wrote a letter to the governor and sent letters about his horrible experience to his entire chain of command who then filed ANOTHER complaint on his behalf.  Is there more to this story, because that seems a little odd? |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 2:20:46 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LE can pull up criminal record when they run the plates so the LTC is pointless. You should know this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is a point in your favor, it means that at least you are not a career scumbag. Totality of the circumstances comes into play. As for the cards, that's a Yankee thing. Here, a thin blue line or a 100 club sticker on a hooptie is just a pathetic attempt to appear normal. LE can pull up criminal record when they run the plates so the LTC is pointless. You should know this. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 2:29:20 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, not in Florida. Also, the CCW isn't tied to the license plate either. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is a point in your favor, it means that at least you are not a career scumbag. Totality of the circumstances comes into play. As for the cards, that's a Yankee thing. Here, a thin blue line or a 100 club sticker on a hooptie is just a pathetic attempt to appear normal. LE can pull up criminal record when they run the plates so the LTC is pointless. You should know this. Shhh, I'm waiting to see what other "knowledge" gets shared. 
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Posted: 4/21/2020 3:04:16 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ft Hood Nolanville But since you're from Austin, I don't know if you knew how bad it was there. I'm not sure how things are now since the state tried to clean up that town. Are you going to challenge this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here we go again. Name of the base and city? Ft Hood Nolanville But since you're from Austin, I don't know if you knew how bad it was there. I'm not sure how things are now since the state tried to clean up that town. Are you going to challenge this? Columbus, GA cops used to have a bad reputation at Fort Benning, back in the '70's. Of course, I was also told by my great-grandmother to be exceedingly careful ANYWHERE south of I-20 in Georgia in the '80's. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 3:10:10 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here we go again. Name of the base and city? In his defense, the local PD where I was stationed targeted the shit out of military members and their dependents. They would sit on a road that was only used by people with base access and write speeding tickets all day long. I don't believe his 1 over claim, though. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 3:10:14 PM EST
[#41]
Seems to be a violation of equal protection under the law. It may be human nature, but laws are intended to curb the excesses of human nature. If you've ever tried to civilize a toddler, you recognize that grabbing whatever attracts their attention is human nature, no matter who actually owns it, as well as biting, scratching, fighting, etc... We've decided some forms of raw human nature are inconsistent with civilized life and made laws against them, such as robbery, rape, murder, assault, etc... When you start having different standards based on who someone knows or pays off, you erode that civilization, especially when they believe they have a RIGHT to that treatment.
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Posted: 4/21/2020 3:13:08 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems to be a violation of equal protection under the law. It may be human nature, but laws are intended to curb the excesses of human nature. If you've ever tried to civilize a toddler, you recognize that grabbing whatever attracts their attention is human nature, no matter who actually owns it, as well as biting, scratching, fighting, etc... We've decided some forms of raw human nature are inconsistent with civilized life and made laws against them, such as robbery, rape, murder, assault, etc... When you start having different standards based on who someone knows or pays off, you erode that civilization, especially when they believe they have a RIGHT to that treatment. It isn't a violation of equal protection under the law since discretion in enforcement of the law has existed in the enforcing the law since before the founding of this nation and the Founders themselves practiced it. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 3:13:26 PM EST
[#43]
Back in the day I would just shoot the chief an email.
Now he is in prison on RICO charges. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 3:15:04 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do many officers sit so long in their cars before walking up to the driver? If an officer is just sitting in his car after the vehicles stop, absent waiting for traffic to clear, he probably needs some remedial training |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 3:49:17 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Answered/questioned in another response. Why run plates then? Why do many officers sit so long in their cars before walking up to the driver? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wrong. Answered/questioned in another response. Why run plates then? Why do many officers sit so long in their cars before walking up to the driver? Criminal history checks require CCHs, and they can't be done via the MDT by running plates. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 3:50:20 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Answered/questioned in another response. Why run plates then? Why do many officers sit so long in their cars before walking up to the driver? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wrong. Answered/questioned in another response. Why run plates then? Why do many officers sit so long in their cars before walking up to the driver? |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 4:10:19 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't a violation of equal protection under the law since discretion in enforcement of the law has existed in the enforcing the law since before the founding of this nation and the Founders themselves practiced it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Seems to be a violation of equal protection under the law. It may be human nature, but laws are intended to curb the excesses of human nature. If you've ever tried to civilize a toddler, you recognize that grabbing whatever attracts their attention is human nature, no matter who actually owns it, as well as biting, scratching, fighting, etc... We've decided some forms of raw human nature are inconsistent with civilized life and made laws against them, such as robbery, rape, murder, assault, etc... When you start having different standards based on who someone knows or pays off, you erode that civilization, especially when they believe they have a RIGHT to that treatment. It isn't a violation of equal protection under the law since discretion in enforcement of the law has existed in the enforcing the law since before the founding of this nation and the Founders themselves practiced it. When the discretion is based on who someone knows or whether they've paid for membership to a particular organization, it IS a violation. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 4:15:05 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you think any of the litany of great nations that litter the ash heap of history deliberately chose to self destruct? We aren’t bound by history, but we are bound by human nature. Everyone thinks they aren’t like those other guys. Your right fuck it why even try to change Our system is not the same as past nations that have failed. We the people can at least try to fix shit. But why bother why put any effort into anything we all die in the end right? |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 4:21:11 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the discretion is based on who someone knows or whether they've paid for membership to a particular organization, it IS a violation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Seems to be a violation of equal protection under the law. It may be human nature, but laws are intended to curb the excesses of human nature. If you've ever tried to civilize a toddler, you recognize that grabbing whatever attracts their attention is human nature, no matter who actually owns it, as well as biting, scratching, fighting, etc... We've decided some forms of raw human nature are inconsistent with civilized life and made laws against them, such as robbery, rape, murder, assault, etc... When you start having different standards based on who someone knows or pays off, you erode that civilization, especially when they believe they have a RIGHT to that treatment. It isn't a violation of equal protection under the law since discretion in enforcement of the law has existed in the enforcing the law since before the founding of this nation and the Founders themselves practiced it. When the discretion is based on who someone knows or whether they've paid for membership to a particular organization, it IS a violation. Should both the officer and person pulled over be charged with said violation? |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 4:26:45 PM EST
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I pulled over a car once, ran a stop sign. Walked up to the car, the driver was a Marine, in uniform. He already had his license out, and I was like, "Yeah, I don't need that. Watch those signs. Have a nice day." Uniform worked better than any card. Some people you just don't write. Never wrote cops, firemen, or military people. Why wouldn't you write cops? Because he didn't want to get dressed in the shower. That's one reason. Another is that motor oil is a bitch to get out of polyester. Oh, and because some animals are more equal than others. |
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