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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:11:14 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gross Tonnage They have it. It's only supposed to apply to ships under 65 feet, but just like the 18 wheeler going 56 MPH that cuts into the fast lane and blocks cars going 70 to pass another truck going 54 MPH, they don't really give a fuck and extend their "law of gross tonnage" attitude to just about everyone. They'll flat out run over boats in the Port of Houston shipping channel. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:20:57 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good Morning America reports that some of the seven dead sailors were alive when the hatches were shut to keep the ship from sinking. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4621656/US-sailors-trapped-ALIVE-USS-Fitzgerald-sank.html 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:28:52 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn, reminds me of that scene from Crimson Tide movie: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/0*lHwm2Up1P2a9hy32.gif Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Good Morning America reports that some of the seven dead sailors were alive when the hatches were shut to keep the ship from sinking. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4621656/US-sailors-trapped-ALIVE-USS-Fitzgerald-sank.html https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/0*lHwm2Up1P2a9hy32.gif If the sailors did not make it out before the hatches were dropped, I would guess that they were either seriously incapacitated, trapped or dead. That scuttle can be opened from inside the damaged compartment. EDIT: The effected berthing compartments (in that area there is one right on top of the other) there would be two of these hatches. One on the port side and another on the starboard and each one would have a scuttle to get out of the space with. 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:29:43 PM EST
[#4]
I assume the emergency exit was inoperable.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:31:45 PM EST
[#5]
Sad.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:32:32 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This hatch you see here would be identical to the one they are talking about. Notice a smaller, round door in the center? That is called a scuttle and on the underside is an another wheel that opens it. If the sailors did not make it out before the hatches were dropped, I would guess that they were either seriously incapacitated, trapped or dead. That scuttle can be opened from inside the damaged compartment. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Flickr_-_Official_U.S._Navy_Imagery_-_Sailors_dog_down_a_water_tight_hatch..jpg It would be braced with mechanical or wooden shoring as well. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:36:25 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would be braced with mechanical or wooden shoring as well. There is no way a shoring team had that up under 8 minutes. The ladder on the damaged side would likely have been destroyed however, they could enter the space from the other side. Edit: Its been over a year since I've walked on a DDG put I'm almost positive there is a 3rd way out. On the upper berthing port side there is a gear locker and next to it is another escape scuttle and it would open up in the passageway above it. I could be thinking of one other aft berthings. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:40:02 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no way a shoring team had that up under 8 minutes. The ladder on the damaged side would likely have been destroyed however, they could enter the space from the other side. Edit: Its been over a year since I've walked on a DDG put I'm almost positive there is a 3rd way out. On the upper berthing there is a gear locker and next to it is another escape scuttle and it would open up in the passageway above it. I'm just a puddle pirate, I'll take your word on the EE points. 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:40:39 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would be braced with mechanical or wooden shoring as well. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:42:56 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And if they weren't out by the time that started happening they weren't coming out, alive or not. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:44:16 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This hatch you see here would be identical to the one they are talking about. Notice a smaller, round door in the center? That is called a scuttle and on the underside is an another wheel that opens it. If the sailors did not make it out before the hatches were dropped, I would guess that they were either seriously incapacitated, trapped or dead. That scuttle can be opened from inside the damaged compartment. EDIT: The effected berthing compartments (in that area there is one right on top of the other) there would be two of these hatches. One on the port side and another on the starboard and each one would have a scuttle to get out of the space with. 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:46:19 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This hatch you see here would be identical to the one they are talking about. Notice a smaller, round door in the center? That is called a scuttle and on the underside is an another wheel that opens it. If the sailors did not make it out before the hatches were dropped, I would guess that they were either seriously incapacitated, trapped or dead. That scuttle can be opened from inside the damaged compartment. EDIT: The effected berthing compartments (in that area there is one right on top of the other) there would be two of these hatches. One on the port side and another on the starboard and each one would have a scuttle to get out of the space with. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Flickr_-_Official_U.S._Navy_Imagery_-_Sailors_dog_down_a_water_tight_hatch..jpg 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:46:29 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed and I'd bet it was because they were either dead or close to it. There is also a row of racks (bunks) on that side about 5 to 6 ft away from the damaged bulkhead. Some of our racks are directly on the bulkhead. I was wondering if it was the same for the Navy or we're just that expendable.  I was wondering because if they were like us the numbers for the deceased would make sense.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:47:27 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's with all that unsecured crap/missile hazards on the right side of the picture? |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:47:57 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's with all that unsecured crap/missile hazards on the right side of the picture? I think it was taken on a CG actually. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:48:53 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of our racks are directly on the bulkhead. I was wondering if it was the same for the Navy or we're just that expendable. I was wondering because if they were like us the numbers for the deceased would make sense.Edit: No racks on the bulkhead. As you come down the ladder there would be a small card table with two plastic seats. Continue forward another row of racks oriented FWD and AFT. There would also be a huge fuel tank underneath the bething. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:53:48 PM EST
[#17]
Berthing space on Arleigh Burke class destroyer 
Entrance to berthing space 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:55:53 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hang a radar reflector in the flybridge when in open water, but I don't know how much it helps. I'm maybe a 2 on a scale of 10 when it comes to maritime capability, so I hate to even weigh in on threads like this. I've not been able to successfully differentiate between other vessels and weather on radar, which makes navigation in weather at night in particular such a risky thing. I have no idea if this is relevant to the problems with the Fitzgerald collision, but 'noise pollution' is a very real thing in my experience. For those that were asking about why it's tough to keep track of other vessels in a crowded channel - here's a shot I found online of a radar with AIS overlay in a channel with minimal traffic. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/4267/Radar-with-AIS-234923.jpg Once one gets used to looking at a radar you learn to pick stuff out. On most of the tugs I've worked on we have plain Jane early to mid 90's sets. No overlays or anything fancy like that. I can pick out a helicopter, small boats, squalls, and if it's tuned in real good a flock of birds. I'm used to picking something up on the radar and comparing it to either something on the chart, an AIS contact on the chart plotter, or using MK 1 eyeball. So in my case I'm independently comparing stuff to make sure of what it is. The new modern ECDIS sets like what the ship and Fitz most likely have have all of that info (save MK 1 eyeball) in one display so I can see how you would get reliant on one. I've been in NY harbor before where Ive turned the AIS tracklines and heading markers off because it was like a bowl of noodles. Shit was going everywhere. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:56:12 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d076eecad044d6d000011-1200/once-aboard-sleeping-assignments-were-provided--the-top-right-bunk-was-mine-dozens-of-enlisted-sailors-sleep-down-here-and-the-nights-were-filled-with-cellphone-alarms.jpg Berthing space on Arleigh Burke class destroyer http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d07eeeab8eab441000002-1200/so-before-heading-back-into-the-sleeping-quarters-i-grab-the-flashlight-i-brought-for-just-such-an-occasion.jpg Entrance to berthing space http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d07ddeab8ea5942000002-1200/even-in-this-main-passagewaya-bright-yellow-sticker-reminds-crew-that-the-ship-could-go-down-at-any-point.jpg That scuttle ( your 3rd photo) would come out in the passageway I think was nearby the ships office. In your first photo, look behind the chair. That is a sounding tube for the fuel tank underneth the lower berthing compartment. It is looking aft in the center line of the compartment. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 2:04:52 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 6/20/2017 2:19:23 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NYT Looking more like what many here (me included) believe, the first 90 degree turn on the AIS track was the collision and that the "U-turn" was about returning to render assistance, not the merchant pitching in to ram the DDG. Talking to some of the SWOs in the building here, they seem to think that many merchants do not man their engine rooms during the cruise phase of transits, which means that they are unable to exercise full control of their speed.. The delay in returning to the collision site could have been partially due to getting the master's permission to man the engine room and then getting an engineer or two down there. 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 2:23:22 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you ever want an engine room unmanned? |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 2:24:17 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you ever want an engine room unmanned? Plus you don't have to have as many engineers and QMEDs on board to stand full watches. (QMED is a qualified member of the engineering watch) |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 2:46:19 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about we wait for the investigation report. Intentionally sensational headline makes a declarative statement of fact: "Seven dead sailors 'were trapped ALIVE inside flooding USS Fitzgerald after their comrades were forced to shut them in to stop the stricken vessel from sinking' after collision with cargo ship" Actual article text reveals the Navy is looking into the possibility: "The Navy is investigating the horrifying possibility that some of those who died on the USS Fitzgerald when it sank may have been trapped alive in rapidly flooding compartments as emergency hatches were closed, it has emerged. " (Told by a guy who was a snipe on Skipjack.) |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 2:51:41 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was told many years ago the the snipes never expect to get out alive. (Told by a guy who was a snipe on Skipjack. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 3:07:53 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NYT Looking more like what many here (me included) believe, the first 90 degree turn on the AIS track was the collision and that the "U-turn" was about returning to render assistance, not the merchant pitching in to ram the DDG. Talking to some of the SWOs in the building here, they seem to think that many merchants do not man their engine rooms during the cruise phase of transits, which means that they are unable to exercise full control of their speed.. The delay in returning to the collision site could have been partially due to getting the master's permission to man the engine room and then getting an engineer or two down there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
NYT Japanese officials said on Monday that the accident had occurred nearly an hour earlier than previously believed, and on Tuesday the United States Navy appeared to accept the revised timeline. “We’re not disputing what the Japanese Coast Guard is saying” about the timing of the collision, said Cmdr. Bill Clinton, a spokesman for the Seventh Fleet at the American base in Yokosuka, Japan, south of Tokyo. Looking more like what many here (me included) believe, the first 90 degree turn on the AIS track was the collision and that the "U-turn" was about returning to render assistance, not the merchant pitching in to ram the DDG. Talking to some of the SWOs in the building here, they seem to think that many merchants do not man their engine rooms during the cruise phase of transits, which means that they are unable to exercise full control of their speed.. The delay in returning to the collision site could have been partially due to getting the master's permission to man the engine room and then getting an engineer or two down there. As if we believe anything Bill Clinton says. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 3:13:18 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not gross tonnage, it's "constrained by draft". Nobody is putting a ship aground because of some dumbass in a speedboat, and the CG wouldn't expect them to. Pulling back into San Diego aboard the LSD USS GERMANTOWN. Some idiot in a 12' boat fishing in the middle of the channel, DIW. We were making a bee line right for him midships. We can not maneuver. We blasted the horn, signaled, everything, he looked up just as he disappeared from view from the Bridge. He must've gotten that out board started in a jiffy because he squirted out the port side back into view just in the nick of time. I bet the bow wasn't more than 30 feet from him. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 3:16:16 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's with all that unsecured crap/missile hazards on the right side of the picture? Chocolate sauce and papayas. Looks like dessert. They could have just done an unrep and those stores weren't put away yet before they went to the GQ drill. That looks like one of the ladderwells on a carrier. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 3:17:18 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you ever want an engine room unmanned? People cost money. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 3:36:31 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People cost money. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 3:58:02 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d076eecad044d6d000011-1200/once-aboard-sleeping-assignments-were-provided--the-top-right-bunk-was-mine-dozens-of-enlisted-sailors-sleep-down-here-and-the-nights-were-filled-with-cellphone-alarms.jpg Berthing space on Arleigh Burke class destroyer http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d07eeeab8eab441000002-1200/so-before-heading-back-into-the-sleeping-quarters-i-grab-the-flashlight-i-brought-for-just-such-an-occasion.jpg Entrance to berthing space http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/503d07ddeab8ea5942000002-1200/even-in-this-main-passagewaya-bright-yellow-sticker-reminds-crew-that-the-ship-could-go-down-at-any-point.jpg How do you open the escape scuttle from the inside? Doesn't appear to be any latches or handles. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 4:01:43 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you open the escape scuttle from the inside? Doesn't appear to be any latches or handles. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 4:05:04 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you open the escape scuttle from the inside? Doesn't appear to be any latches or handles. There's a wheel on the other side. That one in the photo is in a Pway so you can't have a wheel sticking up where people walk. https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6699376 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 4:08:21 PM EST
[#35]
Ah, I see. The business side has the wheel, the "safe" side is shown in that last pic. Thanks, all.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 4:13:04 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not gross tonnage, it's "constrained by draft". Nobody is putting a ship aground because of some dumbass in a speedboat, and the CG wouldn't expect them to. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Gross Tonnage They have it. It's only supposed to apply to ships under 65 feet, but just like the 18 wheeler going 56 MPH that cuts into the fast lane and blocks cars going 70 to pass another truck going 54 MPH, they don't really give a fuck and extend their "law of gross tonnage" attitude to just about everyone. They'll flat out run over boats in the Port of Houston shipping channel. I frequently take my little ski boat out to near the shipping lanes (w/in 1nm) to anchor and watch the ships go by. I'm anchored in 8' of water sometimes. A 60' motor yacht limping on one engine at low tide and with a north wind in the Houston Ship Channel would likely be constrained as well, but well and truly fucked by the 6 knot container ship running up his ass. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 6:42:59 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about we wait for the investigation report. Intentionally sensational headline makes a declarative statement of fact: "Seven dead sailors 'were trapped ALIVE inside flooding USS Fitzgerald after their comrades were forced to shut them in to stop the stricken vessel from sinking' after collision with cargo ship" Actual article text reveals the Navy is looking into the possibility: "The Navy is investigating the horrifying possibility that some of those who died on the USS Fitzgerald when it sank may have been trapped alive in rapidly flooding compartments as emergency hatches were closed, it has emerged. " |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 7:04:42 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A Snipe is an Engineer. These Sailors killed were not. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 8:53:10 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NYT Looking more like what many here (me included) believe, the first 90 degree turn on the AIS track was the collision and that the "U-turn" was about returning to render assistance, not the merchant pitching in to ram the DDG. Talking to some of the SWOs in the building here, they seem to think that many merchants do not man their engine rooms during the cruise phase of transits, which means that they are unable to exercise full control of their speed.. The delay in returning to the collision site could have been partially due to getting the master's permission to man the engine room and then getting an engineer or two down there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
NYT Japanese officials said on Monday that the accident had occurred nearly an hour earlier than previously believed, and on Tuesday the United States Navy appeared to accept the revised timeline. “We’re not disputing what the Japanese Coast Guard is saying” about the timing of the collision, said Cmdr. Bill Clinton, a spokesman for the Seventh Fleet at the American base in Yokosuka, Japan, south of Tokyo. You'd have a duty engineer who would be responsible for the engine room during the "unmanned" portion of time. They would make a round and answer any alarms. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:29:43 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was that a direct cut and paste? Unless something happened that we don't know about I'm pretty sure the Fitz didn't sink. Just more derpage. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:43:52 PM EST
[#41]
Changing gears from the speculation at how this happened, the DC's leading the DC repair parties to save the ship deserves all of the recognition. This is why you drill in port and underway, there is nowhere to go at sea, fight to save the ship.
I spent many hours while at condition 1 in the aft repair locker prepared to do what's needed to save the ship. We had some great DC's and I learned a lot from them. Was down a GITMO twice for refresh training, we always left wth lots of E's and a DC |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:51:32 PM EST
[#42]
One of the 7 sailors who died aboard the USS Fitzgerald saved more than a dozen of his fellow shipmates before he ultimately lost his own life, The Daily Beast reported.
When the Fitzgerald collided with the merchant ship, 37-year-old Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., "leapt into action," according to The Daily Beast. The Fitzgerald was struck below the waterline, and Rehm Jr.'s family was told by the Navy that he went under and saved at least 20 sailors, according to WBNS-10TV in Columbus, Ohio. But when he went back down to get the other six sailors, the ship began to take on too much water, and the hatch was closed, WBNS-10TV said. http://www.businessinsider.com/this-sailor-sacrificed-himself-save-20-lives-the-uss-fitzgerald-2017-6?utm_content=buffer6fb51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:55:26 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the 7 sailors who died aboard the USS Fitzgerald saved more than a dozen of his fellow shipmates before he ultimately lost his own life, The Daily Beast reported.
When the Fitzgerald collided with the merchant ship, 37-year-old Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., "leapt into action," according to The Daily Beast. The Fitzgerald was struck below the waterline, and Rehm Jr.'s family was told by the Navy that he went under and saved at least 20 sailors, according to WBNS-10TV in Columbus, Ohio. But when he went back down to get the other six sailors, the ship began to take on too much water, and the hatch was closed, WBNS-10TV said. http://www.businessinsider.com/this-sailor-sacrificed-himself-save-20-lives-the-uss-fitzgerald-2017-6?utm_content=buffer6fb51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:00:55 PM EST
[#44]
Fuck.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:03:02 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
RIP FC1 |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:04:18 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the 7 sailors who died aboard the USS Fitzgerald saved more than a dozen of his fellow shipmates before he ultimately lost his own life, The Daily Beast reported.
When the Fitzgerald collided with the merchant ship, 37-year-old Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., "leapt into action," according to The Daily Beast. The Fitzgerald was struck below the waterline, and Rehm Jr.'s family was told by the Navy that he went under and saved at least 20 sailors, according to WBNS-10TV in Columbus, Ohio. But when he went back down to get the other six sailors, the ship began to take on too much water, and the hatch was closed, WBNS-10TV said. http://www.businessinsider.com/this-sailor-sacrificed-himself-save-20-lives-the-uss-fitzgerald-2017-6?utm_content=buffer6fb51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:18:02 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:20:53 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure if he saw this story or not God bless Sailor
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:29:33 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sure he'll be decorated for that. What's the highest that he could get these days? I recall a sailor in the interwar period getting the Medal of Honor for similar actions, but the law was changed to not allow non-combat MOHs sometime before WWII. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One of the 7 sailors who died aboard the USS Fitzgerald saved more than a dozen of his fellow shipmates before he ultimately lost his own life, The Daily Beast reported.
When the Fitzgerald collided with the merchant ship, 37-year-old Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., "leapt into action," according to The Daily Beast. The Fitzgerald was struck below the waterline, and Rehm Jr.'s family was told by the Navy that he went under and saved at least 20 sailors, according to WBNS-10TV in Columbus, Ohio. But when he went back down to get the other six sailors, the ship began to take on too much water, and the hatch was closed, WBNS-10TV said. http://www.businessinsider.com/this-sailor-sacrificed-himself-save-20-lives-the-uss-fitzgerald-2017-6?utm_content=buffer6fb51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:31:38 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol how do you collide with a container ship, in the ocean, with all that technology? 
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