User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:14:23 PM EST
[#1]
Dunno, never had tacticool training. I hold my guns in a variety of ways depending on the gun and what Im doing with it. Ive noticed lately with some handguns I tip the gun and my head over to the right. So the sights are half sideways.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:15:54 PM EST
[#2]
Quoted: Quoted: You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. What do you base this utterly false statement on? There may be many reasons why you do not want to chicken wing. But if you are shooting at a moving target (left to right or vice versa)... the faster the target is moving.....increases the necessity to chicken wing in order to be accurate. It allows for a straighter swing path. That is based upon 50 plus years of shooting experience. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:16:55 PM EST
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. What do you base this utterly false statement on? Experience shooting moving targets? You put yourself at a disadvantage tucking your elbow in while shooting movers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:18:08 PM EST
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. What do you base this utterly false statement on? There may be many reasons why you do not want to chicken wing. But if you are shooting at a moving target (left to right or vice versa)... the faster the target is moving.....increases the necessity to chicken wing in order to be accurate. It allows for a straighter swing path. That is based upon 50 plus years of shooting experience. Are we talking about hunting/skeet/trap or combat/defense. Because the methods are completely different. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:21:16 PM EST
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. What do you base this utterly false statement on? more support with arms tucked in...... That is true and that support is necessary if you need to hold the weapon at your shoulders for an extended period of time. But.... When bird hunting/skeet shooting you are only keeping the weapon at your shoulder for a second and for wing shooting a chicken wing stance and swing is much better. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:24:34 PM EST
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. What do you base this utterly false statement on? There may be many reasons why you do not want to chicken wing. But if you are shooting at a moving target (left to right or vice versa)... the faster the target is moving.....increases the necessity to chicken wing in order to be accurate. It allows for a straighter swing path. That is based upon 50 plus years of shooting experience. Are we talking about hunting/skeet/trap or combat/defense. Because the methods are completely different. There is only one human body and set of body mechanics. If a target is moving left to right, say, it is much easier to acquire and engage with a "chicken wing" and an upright posture than with your body tucked in. You have more range of motion and a smoother path of travel. Every step away from that is a tactical compromise. Again, you need only look at the running target sport. Air rifles - so no recoil Grip angle - same as AR/AK. If a tucked elbow was an advantage, it would be used. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:25:41 PM EST
[#7]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. What do you base this utterly false statement on? There may be many reasons why you do not want to chicken wing. But if you are shooting at a moving target (left to right or vice versa)... the faster the target is moving.....increases the necessity to chicken wing in order to be accurate. It allows for a straighter swing path. That is based upon 50 plus years of shooting experience. Are we talking about hunting/skeet/trap or combat/defense. Because the methods are completely different. It really doesn't matter. There can be as many situations in combat that require a rapid left-right movement of the weapon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:29:24 PM EST
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. What do you base this utterly false statement on? more support with arms tucked in...... That is true and that support is necessary if you need to hold the weapon at your shoulders for an extended period of time. But.... When bird hunting/skeet shooting you are only keeping the weapon at your shoulder for a second and for wing shooting a chicken wing stance and swing is much better. Like I said earlier... Having my elbow tucked in is how I was taught to shoot. I keep my elbow tucked in for every weapon I shoot... Whether it be an AR, M1S90, M1, M1A1, .375 H&H, .458 Lott... Everything. If I'm shooting off hand, I keep my elbow down. That includes shooting birds. Whether it be skeet/trap or sporting clays. When I rotate to follow the target, I swing at the hips and keep my upper body and weapon steady. It's the way I shoot... It works great for me and it makes sense to me to keep my elbow tucked in. To say that you can't be accurate unless you chicken wing is completely false. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:44:36 PM EST
[#9]
Quoted:
Again, you need only look at the running target sport. Air rifles - so no recoil Grip angle - same as AR/AK. If a tucked elbow was an advantage, it would be used. But that is looking at it *only* from a pure marksmanship standpoint - and as a marksman of moving targets. Recoil control is a very major part of practical shooting doctrines with semi-auto and full-auto weapons, and should not be discounted in the least when trying to decide the validity of a particular style in those applications. Looks like a lot of people just think shooting = shooting.Trap is different from skeet which is different from tactical employment of a shotgun which is different from bullseye handgun shooting which is different from practical handgun shooting which is different from long-range slowfire rifle shooting which is different from rapid-fire practical rifle shooting which is... etc, etc. There is not and cannot be any "one size fits all" approach because they all require a particular set of skills with an added emphasis on some subset of those skills. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:47:38 PM EST
[#10]
I've always had one with an AK. That short stock doesn't fit.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:50:01 PM EST
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
All the kewl kids paid a lot of money (or want you to think they did) to have a self-proclaimed guru tell them it is necessary. Now they have to vociferously defend that position or they will be forced to admit to themselves that they wasted their money on that "combat ranch" experience. If they didn't set themselves apart, how would the rest of us recognize just how kewl and tactical they are? I think you got it backwards. I have NEVER seen anyone here or elsewhere condemn somebody for tucking in their elbow. Yes, I was answering an unspoken question: "Why do some ARFCOMMERS bitch when they see someone shooting with an untucked elbow?". Good catch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 3:58:44 PM EST
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nothing. It's proper form for accurate rifle fire. A lot of people don't know any better and like to blab on and make themselves look stupid. Personally, I let them go right on ahead. This. It's something people can throw out so they can act holier than thou. Just like the clip vs mag idiots. The chicken wing vs. tucked is a matter of shooting style and preference. There are reasons for both. Like isosceles vs. modified Weaver. But the "clip vs. mag retards" are right. It's like saying "hand me that shovel", when you are really asking for a rake. A garand uses a clip. An AR, 1911, FAL, HK 9X, Glock, etc. uses a magazine. It's stupid to call it anything else, especially when you know the difference. I never say anything, but it does drive me nuts to hear. And it's usually an indicator of the level of knowledge and understanding of firearms the person has. The same people that call magazines clips will also probably call any thing black an Uzi or AK-47, and don't know the difference between a bullet and a cartridge. Call a magazine a clip all you want. It only makes you look stupid. I'm off to load some clips for my choppa', yo. Just in case I gotta pop some caps in somebody ass. Mothafuckas always be axing me 'bout gats, cause I be an expert. Dizzamn suckaz don know shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:09:37 PM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
I don't know about you but it isn't very natural for me with a pistol grip. Keeping my elbow down allows for a much more natural alignment of my wrist/ forearm. This. I suppose I do a more "half assed" chickenwing if I'm shooting a gun with a more traditional stock. With the ar it just feels weird to me. YMMV |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:13:58 PM EST
[#14]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:18:32 PM EST
[#15]
Elbows in is more practical with body armor, low caliber rifles in tactical mode.
Try shooting with accuracy using a non-pistol grip rifle without chicken-winging. It's completely un-natural. Also, try not chicken-winging while standing sideways or perpendicular. That's not as natural either. There are circumstances where one would be better standing sideways (especially without body armor), as it offers less torso to the adversary. I don't have any empircal data, but my guess is that the popularity of the forward facing stance has a lot to do with the ubiquity of body armor and pistol grips. Facing forward however presents a larger target and more exposed vitals. So even in a tactical situation, forward facing, arms tucked is not ALWAYS good. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:18:50 PM EST
[#16]
Quoted:
I keep chicken wing the hell out of a shotgun or larger rifle.... any other rifle I try to keep the wings tucked in...seems to be a much more stable stance for me.... it also translates the tightness in the arm up to the rifle and tucks it in to the shoulder so much better, besides on any rifle with a pistol grip you look like a huge homo. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:26:44 PM EST
[#17]
Lots of chicken wings in HEAT - so 90's.
Al's only rockin' half-chicken wing........  Val's got the full wing action goin' on  The cop that Val kills........ musta been because of his shitty wing-stance.... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:28:19 PM EST
[#18]
The real question:
Do you chicken wing with your Glock forty while shooting it gangsta style? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:41:58 PM EST
[#19]
Quoted:
Elbows in is more practical with body armor, low caliber rifles in tactical mode. Try shooting with accuracy using a non-pistol grip rifle without chicken-winging. It's completely un-natural. Also, try not chicken-winging while standing sideways or perpendicular. That's not as natural either. There are circumstances where one would be better standing sideways (especially without body armor), as it offers less torso to the adversary. I don't have any empircal data, but my guess is that the popularity of the forward facing stance has a lot to do with the ubiquity of body armor and pistol grips. Facing forward however presents a larger target and more exposed vitals. So even in a tactical situation, forward facing, arms tucked is not ALWAYS good. In a threat situation your body automatically wants to orient itself towards the threat. Then you go into tunnel vision mode. The forward facing stance uses your natural reaction as a basis as oposed to the weaver stance that fights against your natural instinct. Nature + nurture aids in the effectiveness of this stance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:50:18 PM EST
[#20]
Try getting shot in the elbow and seeing how good you shoot a rifle after that.
Tucking as much as you can into a lower center of gravity is your best possible position if you are getting shot at. That and facing flat chested into the gun fire so as to maximize the surface coverage of your SAPI plate instead of exposing the weaker sides of your armor. Train like you fight and your won't go to bad habits when your adrenaline hits 1000% of normal. You will instinctively go to what you have been trained to do, instead of having to think about it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/21/2009 11:06:27 PM EST
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Current doctrine amongst those who actually get shot at and who actually pull the trigger to dispatch bad guys is to keep the elbows down and use the rifle in a more Isosceles-style shooting. This mandates the use of a much shorter fixed stock or an adjustable stock set at the position closes to the receiver. By keeping the arms tucked in tight, you create a firing platform with suitable stability, but with a much smaller target area for the bad guys. Simple adage: think small, be small. I learned about chicken wings from my father, career military and a member at one time of the Air Force rifle team. He'd also seen action in Southeast Asia and in Central America. It worked for him. I thought it worked for me. The first time I went to the range with my son after his first deployment to Iraq, he was using the non-chicken wing style. I looked at him and said, "THAT'S not now I taught you to shoot a rifle." He looked at me and said, "Yeah, but you never taught me how to avoid getting shot by some foul-smelling Muslim cocksucker with a piece of shit rifle and a lucky shot." His mother said, "Watch your language." To whit, he replied, "Sorry, Mom." I replied, "show me how to do that right." I've been using it ever since. So has his Mom. We'll take advice over someone who has faced the elephant on three tours and returned with a respectable body count over a chicken-winger posting here who hasn't. Hell, maybe when my Dad comes up here next summer we can convert him. It has nothing to do with "doctrine." It is technique. The tucked in position is a luxury of modern low recoil weapons. When it works, it works. I don't recommend it if you have to do snap shooting with an M24. You might just find there is a time and a season for everything. It must be a California thing to focus on a single word while missing the entire point of the issue. Then again, I've seen you do this before. You are, indeed, one of the more clueless posters that I've seen here over the years. Enjoy stupidity. It gets expensive, but you're worth it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 12:55:24 AM EST
[#22]
I hold all my firearms gangsta style....sideways!!
I like chicken wings. ETA ^ Someones cheerios must have tasted like piss this morning. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:32:23 AM EST
[#23]
I say go with whatever works for you and what you feel most comfortable with. For me, my arm gets tired after a while.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:41:46 AM EST
[#24]
Hunting,shooting for accuracy (aka competition), birding... chicken wing it
trying not to get shot- tuck it. not a hard concept, i can switch back and forth with no issue depending on what i am doing or how my position requires me to shoot from ( off hand, kneeling, tree stand,blind etc). I also dont like shooting "real" guns ( ones with recoil) tucked,becuase it lets the stock slip to much under recoil, but that's just me. sometimes it doesnt always have to be a hsld vs hdls thing guys.. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:43:00 AM EST
[#25]
If you are shooting a know distance range or "longer range shooting" it is fine, if you are shooting close and fast it doesn't work as well.
It like the modified boxer stance is technique and you need to know when and when not to use it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:57:39 AM EST
[#26]
Quoted:
Hell, I'm curious as to how many have ever shot a rifle with recoil, let alone a shotgun. Or, even an assault rifle at moving targets. I have actually, it depends on how they are moving and the range the target is to you. The thought process behind the modified boxer stance is that you move your upper body like the turret of a tank and you use your legs like shock absorbers as you move. Attempt to not plant you feet or you become a stationary target. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 5:28:14 AM EST
[#27]
For me:
Big 'traditional' guns like my .30-06 M70 = wing Little black gunsl like my M4 = no wing |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 5:39:40 AM EST
[#28]
Quoted:
....... I have been told that bringing your strong arm down (when in a practical-type stance) provides a more stable platform and improves recoil control for rapid-fire. Intuitively, this makes perfect sense - bringing your arms into the body, as much underneath and behind the rifle as possible, would seem to provide stability since everything is in tight together. This and bringing your arms tight into your body gives you a better combat stance and a more stable platform but it also covers more of your vital organs with your arms from your side ( covers your armpit with flesh and bone where your armor doesn't protect and makes you a small target from the front. and allows you to move through tighter spaces and remain closer to cover and concealment. It's a combat stance, not a competition stance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 6:07:42 AM EST
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Current doctrine amongst those who actually get shot at and who actually pull the trigger to dispatch bad guys is to keep the elbows down and use the rifle in a more Isosceles-style shooting. This mandates the use of a much shorter fixed stock or an adjustable stock set at the position closes to the receiver. By keeping the arms tucked in tight, you create a firing platform with suitable stability, but with a much smaller target area for the bad guys. Simple adage: think small, be small. I learned about chicken wings from my father, career military and a member at one time of the Air Force rifle team. He'd also seen action in Southeast Asia and in Central America. It worked for him. I thought it worked for me. The first time I went to the range with my son after his first deployment to Iraq, he was using the non-chicken wing style. I looked at him and said, "THAT'S not now I taught you to shoot a rifle." He looked at me and said, "Yeah, but you never taught me how to avoid getting shot by some foul-smelling Muslim cocksucker with a piece of shit rifle and a lucky shot." His mother said, "Watch your language." To whit, he replied, "Sorry, Mom." I replied, "show me how to do that right." I've been using it ever since. So has his Mom. We'll take advice over someone who has faced the elephant on three tours and returned with a respectable body count over a chicken-winger posting here who hasn't. Hell, maybe when my Dad comes up here next summer we can convert him. It has nothing to do with "doctrine." It is technique. The tucked in position is a luxury of modern low recoil weapons. When it works, it works. I don't recommend it if you have to do snap shooting with an M24. You might just find there is a time and a season for everything. It must be a California thing to focus on a single word while missing the entire point of the issue. Then again, I've seen you do this before. You are, indeed, one of the more clueless posters that I've seen here over the years. Enjoy stupidity. It gets expensive, but you're worth it. It must be a Joe-Bananas thing to focus on the state someone is currently living and let it detract from what they say. My last sentence had nothing to do with my first two. Consider me clueless all you want, I sleep well at night. Funny though, I was living in Texas when I first started posting on arfcom. It is amazing how differently one gets treated by some based on what they put as their location. I'll be in Virginia probably by August. Suddenly, I will have gained dozens IQ points and oodles of credibility  .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 6:09:16 AM EST
[#30]
Elbows tucked provides a more stable platform for extended covering of threat areas.
Less of the body is exposed when firing around barricades/corners. You take up less room in crowded enviroments. If I happen to take rounds from the side my arms may stop a round from entering my chest cavity and at a minimum will slow it down so it won't penetrate as much. There is no armor in the armpits. The four or five inches of penetration through by bicep could be the difference between my heart exploding or not. If all you do is plink on a range or shoot skeet then who cares how you shoot. I hit clays pretty good with my shotty and elbows tucked. It's about training. With some proper tactical training you will learn to shoot the same way all the time and it will become instinctive. CQB is not high power distance shooting....you cannot compare the two. And for the guy who posted the pictures from Heat....  .....You use a movie with pictures of actors to prove a point? Get a clue.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:23:06 PM EST
[#31]
Quoted: I like wings. I prefer breasts myself. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:32:26 PM EST
[#32]
Quoted: Whatever works. This is the only answer. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:38:40 PM EST
[#33]
Quoted:
I like the "chicken wing" for traditional target-type shooting, especially with single-shot or repeating rifles. I find I am actually more accurate when "chicken winging" for slow-fire target shooting. The main reason it has fallen into disuse amongst tactically-minded shooters is because it is not the most stable shooting position for shooting rapid-fire with semi-autos and full-autos. http://www.olive-drab.com/images/id_rifle_m14_700_07.jpg http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/26/m4_iraq_dasd0724425.jpg Both are correct. Just two different shooting positions for two different types of shooting. On the traditional wooden stock profiles, you can choke up on the grip, raise the elbow and pull. Your hand is close to the axis of the barrel and you're putting tension on the tendons in your wrist, not muscle. It really stabilizes things, especially when the wind is up. I support most of the weight of the rifle in my trigger hand. Note the white knuckles––this is far from relaxed. 
(damn! who is that handsome fellow?) If you do that on an AR (pull on the pistol grip), with pistol grip way below the barrel, you'll be havin a tough time making bullet holes in the center of the target. I can't talk to tactical shooting. Raising the elbow seems like it'd be OK, but I wouldn't recommend you really pull on it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:39:48 PM EST
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have any of you experts ever shot skeet? Hell, I'm curious as to how many have ever shot a rifle with recoil, let alone a shotgun. Or, even an assault rifle at moving targets. my favorite hunting gun is a .338 Win mag. - Does this count? I've even used it coyote hunting. so yes, I've hit moving targets with it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:40:39 PM EST
[#35]
Quoted: Aside from the many high-speed operators (aka fat fuck couch commandos) on ARFCOM that need to worry about hitting their elbow on doorways, what's so bad about a chicken-wing position of shooting? I resemble that! I'm a couch-commando and I do the chicken wing. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:41:09 PM EST
[#36]
Basic marksmanship is always important. And the more of your body you have out in the breeze so to speak the less stable to you are.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:42:35 PM EST
[#37]
Quoted:
Nothing. It's proper form for accurate rifle fire. A lot of people don't know any better and like to blab on and make themselves look stupid. Personally, I let them go right on ahead. Your arm hanging out to your side is proper shooting position? Says who? The goal of a proper shooting position is to make your body stable. Your elbow out in the air is not stable. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:46:16 PM EST
[#38]
oh ok an actor is right USMC rifle marksmanship is wrong. I'll shoot the way I was taught and the way I taught others not the way Hollywood says. Jesus....
Chicken wing is effing stupid. you have half your arm hanging out during recoil and all sorts of shit goes wrong. You have half your arm hanging out lining up the target it is harder. ultimately shoot the way it works for you but a Hollywood still photo means shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:47:49 PM EST
[#39]
Quoted:
R. Lee Ermey has one hell of a chicken wing, at least when shooting an AK. Seems to suit him just fine. R Lee was a pogue
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:54:35 PM EST
[#40]
It seems completely lost on some of you that there are different stances and positions for different types of shooting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 1:58:12 PM EST
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have any of you experts ever shot skeet? Hell, I'm curious as to how many have ever shot a rifle with recoil, let alone a shotgun. Or, even an assault rifle at moving targets. Does my 300WM precision rifle count? how about my 338 rum in precision rifle? Skeet means shit. It is a sport that the vast majority of the shooting public never does. Keeping your elbow in keeps your body more tight and compact and provides less chance for throwing you off balance and provides for a tighter figure 8 pattern which is what your front sight post should be doing if you are properly lined up. Consistency and accuracy are all that matter. However someone gets it fine but fools trying to act like it is a tacticool only issue are morons. period. There are good basic marksmanship principles behind it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 2:02:50 PM EST
[#42]
Quoted:
You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. Really? lol umm bullshit. Look if you want to shoot that way fine but don't try to blow sunshine up my ass and the ass of others that know different. I don't give a shit if someone I didn't teach to shoot puts the buttstock on his forehead. Whatever provides consistent accurate fire. When people try to say do it my way or forever fail when I know they are full of shit ain't working. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 2:05:28 PM EST
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: R. Lee Ermey has one hell of a chicken wing, at least when shooting an AK. Seems to suit him just fine. R Lee was a pogue I thought he was a drill seargeant? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 2:05:43 PM EST
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. What do you base this utterly false statement on? There may be many reasons why you do not want to chicken wing. But if you are shooting at a moving target (left to right or vice versa)... the faster the target is moving.....increases the necessity to chicken wing in order to be accurate. It allows for a straighter swing path. That is based upon 50 plus years of shooting experience. YOUR shooting experience and that doesn't equal mine. Anyone who is saying what you are saying (this unconditional if you don't you'll fail BS) is not fit to give advice. Well you can give it hopefully no one listens. Like I said if it works for you fine. But that doesn't mean shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 2:11:55 PM EST
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. What do you base this utterly false statement on? There may be many reasons why you do not want to chicken wing. But if you are shooting at a moving target (left to right or vice versa)... the faster the target is moving.....increases the necessity to chicken wing in order to be accurate. It allows for a straighter swing path. That is based upon 50 plus years of shooting experience. Are we talking about hunting/skeet/trap or combat/defense. Because the methods are completely different. There is only one human body and set of body mechanics. If a target is moving left to right, say, it is much easier to acquire and engage with a "chicken wing" and an upright posture than with your body tucked in. You have more range of motion and a smoother path of travel. Every step away from that is a tactical compromise. Again, you need only look at the running target sport. Air rifles - so no recoil Grip angle - same as AR/AK. If a tucked elbow was an advantage, it would be used. What if in your scenario you aren't casually standing in the middle of a field and have a ton of room or are on the move or anything other than standing casually in a field? Sorry you are wrong on this. Chicken wing is absolutely inappropriate if you are moving around. Now I got this fucking arm hanging out that I have to guide around stuff. Throwing me off balance. Banging in to shit because I am focused on the situation not my long ass arm hanging out. Nothing better then nailing your funny bone on a corner of something. That would really improve your shooting.  And if you are on occasion due to the situation having to tuck in your arm then my response is you train the way you fight not the way you'll fight sometimes.
I don't care what skeet shooters use, I don't care what air rifle shooters use. I care what the USMC taught me and what they taught me makes sense, running around with my arm way out there makes no sense. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 2:13:18 PM EST
[#46]
Murphy's 31st Law of Combat:
"If it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid." |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 2:14:03 PM EST
[#47]
And the best 3 gun shooters don't use it. So I shoot like Taran, and drive like Michael. Hard to go wrong.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 2:15:58 PM EST
[#48]
Quoted:
Skeet means shit. It is a sport that the vast majority of the shooting public never does.
The shotgun sports are probably the most widespread shooting sports not only in the US, but in the world. Also, different sports have different followings in various regions. Out here in NE OH, there are mainly rifle and pistol shooters. But go to IL and you'll find that shotguns are a much, much bigger deal. That aside, yes, the whole point that seems to be lost on most of the people here - even after being repeated many times - is that different types of shooting make better use of different stances. Trying to say that the exact same stance should be used in both long-range slow-fire bullseye competition and shorter-range rapid-fire practical disciplines is silly. I guess maybe I should use the exact same grip with my revolvers as I do with my pistols.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 2:17:34 PM EST
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You will never be an accurate moving target shooter unless you chicken wing. What do you base this utterly false statement on? There may be many reasons why you do not want to chicken wing. But if you are shooting at a moving target (left to right or vice versa)... the faster the target is moving.....increases the necessity to chicken wing in order to be accurate. It allows for a straighter swing path. That is based upon 50 plus years of shooting experience. Are we talking about hunting/skeet/trap or combat/defense. Because the methods are completely different. It really doesn't matter. There can be as many situations in combat that require a rapid left-right movement of the weapon. And here you prove your inadequate training. It does matter because your lil arm flopping around banging in to stuff as you engage something other than a clay pigeon shouldn't be throwing you off balance. How accurate are you when your funny bone smacks something as you run? Go right ahead run around in a little gunfight and fuck up your elbow because it is hanging out there in the breeze. The home intruder, somalian, al qaeda guy, pissed off girlfriend, whatever will let you call a truce because you have fractured your elbow. What's that? You'd simply tuck in your elbow as you were running and shooting? So now you have to get good with both elbow positions? Riiiight Consistency and accuracy not shoot this way when its nice this way when it isn't. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/22/2009 2:20:05 PM EST
[#50]
Quoted:
Try getting shot in the elbow and seeing how good you shoot a rifle after that. Tucking as much as you can into a lower center of gravity is your best possible position if you are getting shot at. That and facing flat chested into the gun fire so as to maximize the surface coverage of your SAPI plate instead of exposing the weaker sides of your armor. Train like you fight and your won't go to bad habits when your adrenaline hits 1000% of normal. You will instinctively go to what you have been trained to do, instead of having to think about it. thank you!!! |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
