User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:43:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Germany took too long to sail to Pearl Harbor and back and they missed their chance.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:43:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really. You've taken what I wrote completely wrong. I suggest reading "Germany and the Second World War, volume II" pages 366 to 419 Nobody wants to acknowledge the fact the no army could fight the Germans in a land battle in 1940 or 41. Even when the Germans were outnumbered and outgunned. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:44:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is really the bottom line. The Germans were winning every battle outnumbered and outgunned. The Germans were so far advanced tactically that they would have beat Britain. It was a political decision Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hitler's logic was that knocking France out of the war would force the British to a "compromise peace". He was so confident in this that he ordered production changes before the Fall of France was guaranteed. Even once it was clear that the English wouldn't come to terms, the idea of a landing was always the last ditch effort to force a peace from the British. It was only after Hitler realized that he couldn't force a British Empire peace by invasion that he began the assumption he could force peace by defeating the Soviets. This aligned two of his goals into one thing. This is really the bottom line. The Germans were winning every battle outnumbered and outgunned. The Germans were so far advanced tactically that they would have beat Britain. It was a political decision LoL. You need to read more about the fall of France. It wasn't so much that the Germans were advanced, it’s that the French just gave up. There are many theories why. Probably, they were compromised by Commies and Fascists within. They caved in like a rotten cantaloupe. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:45:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Written by a Brit Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not really. You've taken what I wrote completely wrong. I suggest reading "Germany and the Second World War, volume II" pages 366 to 419 Written by a Brit You looked it up and saw it was published by Oxford and made a really stupid assumption. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:46:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryNothing originally British. Everything GOOD is just imported from immigrants or French origins. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:47:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Hitler was a fucktard.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:47:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ok, who wants to cross the English Channel in a river barge?.. raise your hand..  Good point. The Allies crossed the Channel, into a German Atlantic Wall that hadn't been there six years before. The British didn't have such a wall. The Allied invasion was the largest operation before or after the War, involving 6,939 ships of all types. As it was, the crossing was so chancy that Eisenhower worried himself sick about it, and actually had an announcement taking full responsibility for it. I'd be interested in seeing how many German soldiers were to be committed to Operation Sea Lion. The Allies landed 156,000 troops just on D Day; IIRC the entire US Army only had 200,000 soldiers in uniform in 1938. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:47:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Water, RAF, and Russia.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:47:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody wants to acknowledge the fact the no army could fight the Germans in a land battle in 1940 or 41. Even when the Germans were outnumbered and outgunned. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not really. You've taken what I wrote completely wrong. I suggest reading "Germany and the Second World War, volume II" pages 366 to 419 Nobody wants to acknowledge the fact the no army could fight the Germans in a land battle in 1940 or 41. Even when the Germans were outnumbered and outgunned. You do realize that Sea Lion had very little to do with the Army right? Its success or failure would fall on the Air and Naval force |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:47:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably the food and ugly women. Not worth it to rape and pillage. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:47:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You looked it up and saw it was published by Oxford and made a really stupid assumption. Written by Oxford, really stupid assumption 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:48:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I took a picture of the reason just on Saturday https://i.postimg.cc/c0b3hrgv/2-BD7-DB4-F-371-E-4-B38-A880-FA4429249-FC7.jpg If that's a Hurricane, you're not wrong. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:49:16 PM EDT
[#13]
RAF retained control over British skies
Big Royal Navy that would have fought to the last rowboat. About 14 battleships and battlecruisers, seventy destroyers (heavy/light), over a hundred destroyers, more submarines than the Kriegsmarine, aircraft carriers. German invasion convoy would go slightly faster than the Roman fleet that invaded Britannia. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:49:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do realize that Sea Lion had very little to do with the Army right? Its success or failure would fall on the Air and Naval force It would have forced the British to engage on German terms. Do some research |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:50:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the Luftwaffe would have just sat sat on their ass. It takes time to sortie a navy Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Seaborne invasions are tough, and the Germans were not a nautical power. They did manage to embarrass the RN in WWI and WW2 but the surface fleet never posed a strategic threat. Look up how many ships the Royal Navy had to throw at an invasion. Without total air superiority, it would have been an absolute slaughter. Even Hitler knew it was impossible, and that’s saying something. Britain would have literally plowed through the troop barges with WWI era Battleships. I sorta wish the Nazis would have tried. It woulda been one of the most epic battles in all of history. And the Luftwaffe would have just sat sat on their ass. It takes time to sortie a navy Any you think an invasion force could be prepared and supplied in secret?  . That doesn’t even make any sense. Britain has a very long history of harbor raids. Ask Napoleon. Ask Denmark. Sometimes, I wonder what kind of people lurk on the other side of the internets. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:50:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Not so sure the UK has the same “a gun behind every blade of grass” effect on potential foreign invaders as the US has.... Or HAD. 50% of us now(Democrat’s) would happily kneel to imperialist Japan and nazi Germany and handover our Jews and way of life for communism/socialism Rule of a tyrant.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:52:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Focussing on London over airfield allowed the RAF to rebuild and prevent german air superiority. Which is needed for any success on a mass amphibious invasion. Yep......... had they concentrated on the airfields and destroyed the RAF on the ground and their factories, England may have sued for peace, then he could have turned all of his forces toward Russia |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:52:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RAF retained control over British skies Big Royal Navy that would have fought to the last rowboat. About 14 battleships and battlecruisers, seventy destroyers (heavy/light), over a hundred destroyers, more submarines than the Kriegsmarine, aircraft carriers. German invasion convoy would go slightly faster than the Roman fleet that invaded Britannia. Never once did a major British naval vessel sail through the channel after the Germans conquered France for obvious reasons |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:52:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RAF retained control over British skies Big Royal Navy that would have fought to the last rowboat. About 14 battleships and battlecruisers, seventy destroyers (heavy/light), over a hundred destroyers, more submarines than the Kriegsmarine, aircraft carriers. German invasion convoy would go slightly faster than the Roman fleet that invaded Britannia. Never once did a major British naval vessel sail through the channel after the Germans conquered France for obvious reasons |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:54:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody wants to acknowledge the fact the no army could fight the Germans in a land battle in 1940 or 41. Even when the Germans were outnumbered and outgunned. This thread is about a Sea-born Invasion. Britain, is Britain because of the channel. That’s reality. Go start another thread about the land battles. It’s an interesting topic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:54:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Written by Oxford, really stupid assumption Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You looked it up and saw it was published by Oxford and made a really stupid assumption. Written by Oxford, really stupid assumption No, it was written by Germans, from the German Military History Research Agency. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:56:28 PM EDT
[#22]
someday, someway, I gotta find out what the he** Rudolph Hess was up to, flying into Britain like that.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:58:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stupidity, the Royal navy was never going into the channel, they would have gotten slaughtered by the Luftwaffe. Hitler never had any serious intent to invade Britain. The Royal Navy’s reasons for being were to protect the trade of the Empire and defend the Home Island from invasion. Which they had done for more than three hundred years. They were absolutely going to go roaring into the Channel. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:01:10 PM EDT
[#24]
 could you imagine piloting this POS into hostile airspace with a Panzer 2 or 80 armed guys shitting themselves strapped in underneath you..?  what a fairy tale |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:02:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never once did a major British naval vessel sail through the channel after the Germans conquered France for obvious reasons Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: RAF retained control over British skies Big Royal Navy that would have fought to the last rowboat. About 14 battleships and battlecruisers, seventy destroyers (heavy/light), over a hundred destroyers, more submarines than the Kriegsmarine, aircraft carriers. German invasion convoy would go slightly faster than the Roman fleet that invaded Britannia. Never once did a major British naval vessel sail through the channel after the Germans conquered France for obvious reasons That of course being that there was no reason to. The convoys were all entering and exiting the ports in the north. That’s if you discount the coastal raids and that Overlord thing |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:04:02 PM EDT
[#26]
English Channel? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:04:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Didn’t have to as the Royals had close ties to the Nazis.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:06:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Royal Navy’s reasons for being were to protect the trade of the Empire and defend the Home Island from invasion. Which they had done for more than three hundred years. They were absolutely going to go roaring into the Channel. yeah, I'm pretty sure they had what was called a "channel squadron" or two at all times.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:06:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Fixation on USSR + culmination+ America = get fucked
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:09:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I took a picture of the reason just on Saturday https://i.postimg.cc/c0b3hrgv/2-BD7-DB4-F-371-E-4-B38-A880-FA4429249-FC7.jpg Charlie Daniels? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:11:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Hitler thought British blood was too valuable to spill so much.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:12:54 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: As we all know, Hitler had his eye on the UK for a list of very obvious reasons. He never invaded, though. Why not? Was it because: 1. He felt his troop transports would have been sunk by the Allied navy. 2. He felt his troops would have been shot to shit from the air during the beach landings. 3. He felt his troops would have been shot to shit by shore batteries during the beach landings. 4. He felt he would have made it ashore only to be slaughtered by every man, woman, and child Brit. 5. He did not have the men and equipment to spare for the operation. Discuss. The English Channel, RAF, a chunk of the nazi army tied up holding down France, lots of supplies from the US, and hitlers moving east played a factor. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:14:20 PM EDT
[#33]
RAF kicked his shit in
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:16:54 PM EDT
[#34]
We are talking about the same Luftwaffe that couldn’t prevent the evacuation of the British Army at Dunkirk by a few destroyers and some coastal pleasure boats.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:19:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are talking about the same Luftwaffe that couldn’t prevent the evacuation of the British Army at Dunkirk by a few destroyers and some coastal pleasure boats. Yep, that one. Also the same Navy that had suffered losses in the Norway campaign. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:19:39 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RAF kicked his shit in This Herr Meyer Goering switched from bombing RAF airfields to London on the Fuhrers orders. Plan went Kaput. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:20:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ecured.cu/images/5/56/Messerschmitt-me-321a-1-glider-01.png could you imagine piloting this POS into hostile airspace with a Panzer 2 or 80 armed guys shitting themselves strapped in underneath you..? what a fairy tale Those things were sitting ducks in the air. Messerschmitt only had two weeks to design it as they were competing with Junkers for the contract to manufacture transport planes. The ME 323 wasn’t much better. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:31:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is really the bottom line. The Germans were winning every battle outnumbered and outgunned. The Germans were so far advanced tactically that they would have beat Britain. It was a political decision. Nonsense. The Germans were wining battles because they were the prepared aggressor with the advantage of surprise. All that had evaporated by the time Operation Sea Lion was contemplated. Hitler's generals had told him that they must have command of the skies if they were to launch a cross channel invasion, which they never achieved. In fact, as the supposed time of the launch of Operation Sea Lion crept closer and closer, the Luftwaffe's position over the channel and Britain proper became weaker and weaker. Without air superiority and the requisite troop transports, Germany was never in a viable position to invade Britain. Without air superiority British reconnaissance flights which were flying nearly continuously would have picked up landing craft and troops massing. The British would known weeks in advance and would have started to sink transports and landing craft (which the Nazis didn't actually have) well in advance of the launch of the invasion. If you believe that Britain was not invaded because of some political calculation on the part of Hitler you have bought into a myth told by pro-Hitler commentators after the war. Hitler as a General was a joke, and Germany never fared well when facing a prepared adversary. She only succeeded when she landed a sucker punch. Hitler didn't invade Britain because even that idiot knew he was going to get his ass handed to him if he tried. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:38:45 PM EDT
[#39]
It’s stupid simple.
The Battle of Britain didn’t STOP Germany from being able to take Britain but postponed it. They weren’t pushing into Europe. What stopped Germany from taking the UK was going to war with Russia. Another year or two of full focus on eastern front, no -stop Uboat attacks, and refining the German Navy and amphibious assaults and Germany would have held Britain. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:42:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nonsense. The Germans were wining battles because they were the prepared aggressor with the advantage of surprise. All that had evaporated by the time Operation Sea Lion was contemplated. Hitler's generals had told him that they must have command of the skies if they were to launch a cross channel invasion, which they never achieved. In fact, as the supposed time of the launch of Operation Sea Lion crept closer and closer, the Luftwaffe's position over the channel and Britain proper became weaker and weaker. Without air superiority and the requisite troop transports, Germany was never in a viable position to invade Britain. Without air superiority British reconnaissance flights which were flying nearly continuously would have picked up landing craft and troops massing. The British would known weeks in advance and would have started to sink transports and landing craft (which the Nazis didn't actually have) well in advance of the launch of the invasion. If you believe that Britain was not invaded because of some political calculation on the part of Hitler you have bought into a myth told by pro-Hitler commentators after the war. Hitler as a General was a joke, and Germany never fared well when facing a prepared adversary. She only succeeded when she landed a sucker punch. Hitler didn't invade Britain because even that idiot knew he was going to get his ass handed to him if he tried. Seriously, the invasion of France was a surprise? Ever heard of the Sitzkrieg? What planet are you on? The French and British had plenty of time to prepare. So did the Poles, Soviets, etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:49:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nonsense. The Germans were wining battles because they were the prepared aggressor with the advantage of surprise. All that had evaporated by the time Operation Sea Lion was contemplated. Hitler's generals had told him that they must have command of the skies if they were to launch a cross channel invasion, which they never achieved. In fact, as the supposed time of the launch of Operation Sea Lion crept closer and closer, the Luftwaffe's position over the channel and Britain proper became weaker and weaker. Without air superiority and the requisite troop transports, Germany was never in a viable position to invade Britain. Without air superiority British reconnaissance flights which were flying nearly continuously would have picked up landing craft and troops massing. The British would known weeks in advance and would have started to sink transports and landing craft (which the Nazis didn't actually have) well in advance of the launch of the invasion. If you believe that Britain was not invaded because of some political calculation on the part of Hitler you have bought into a myth told by pro-Hitler commentators after the war. Hitler as a General was a joke, and Germany never fared well when facing a prepared adversary. She only succeeded when she landed a sucker punch. Hitler didn't invade Britain because even that idiot knew he was going to get his ass handed to him if he tried. You're pretty slick on History, though. I'd listen to any counterpoints. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 9:58:00 PM EDT
[#42]
#5
Hitler should have been patient. Britain wasn't going anywhere. Should have conquered everyone else first, signed a treaty with England, built his military back up and then hit England with Operation Surprise Butt Sex. Would have been over before the US could assist. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 10:01:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Bottom line is that they didn't have the means to transport troops and equipment over the sea and land them on an opposed beach. Landing craft, troop ships, support vessels, etc.
Juice wasn't worth the squeeze. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 10:03:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hitler didn’t want Britain. He wanted the Soviet Union. This. He thought he could negotiate peace with them. Sea Lion was a last resort. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 10:37:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: France knew they were coming. Still got raped. I think the only contenders who were "sucker punched" were Russia and Poland. Everyone in Europe was scrambling at the end of 1939, so his element of surprise was pretty negated. You're pretty slick on History, though. I'd listen to any counterpoints. I'll grant you, France should have known. They put too much confidence in their static defenses and the notion that no one could attack through the Ardennes. I just rile against this notion that the Germans had a vastly superior military. What they had were certain advantages that aggressor nations possess. They had been building their military mostly in secret. As the aggressor, they could pick the time and locations of the initial thrusts and they had a plan of battle that would be reasonably accurate for some period of time. Those are huge advantages. But, as the war progressed, when everyone knew what Germany was doing and had themselves begun to prepare, those advantages evaporated. As they evaporated, Germany started to lose. So, I'll refine my statement to say that when Germany faced a prepared peer adversary, she fared poorly. Once the USSR and Britain recovered from being set back on their heels, Germany began her slow decline. When the USA fully entered the fray, it only accelerated the inevitable. Germany did well against unprepared opponents. Some were unprepared because they were surprised. Others were unprepared because they were foolish (France). Once it was clear what Germany was up too, she was finished. Germany never had the wherewithal to fight a two front war and would probably have eventually lost if she had chosen to fight a one front war against the USSR. The notion of German military prowess is largely a myth. She did after all lose two world wars. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 10:54:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bottom line is that they didn't have the means to transport troops and equipment over the sea and land them on an opposed beach. Landing craft, troop ships, support vessels, etc. Juice wasn't worth the squeeze. Let's assume they did manage to scrape together every river barge, fishing boat, and pleasure vessel they could find to get a flotilla to cross the channel. What many fail to consider is just what this would cause in the German occupied areas economically. Losses would be bad, and all those vessels would be tied up for months with the operation. Months of no movement of goods, resources or people. The German and occupied zones had a fragile "Rob everyone to Pay Germany" setup, it would hurt badly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 10:57:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The RAF. FPNI And RADAR... And Hut8, Bletchley Park (Alan Turing.) |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 10:57:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I took a picture of the reason just on Saturday https://i.postimg.cc/c0b3hrgv/2-BD7-DB4-F-371-E-4-B38-A880-FA4429249-FC7.jpg A big scary ghost cloud? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 10:59:44 PM EDT
[#49]
No air superiority and lack of landing craft.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 11:10:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are talking about the same Luftwaffe that couldn’t prevent the evacuation of the British Army at Dunkirk by a few destroyers and some coastal pleasure boats. Look how long it took the allies to kick the Germans out of Dunkirk 
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
.jpg)
