Like I said, you are backing water.

I asked, "Do you want jonny to go to hell."

You DIDN'T SAY, "Yes, if God wants him there" or "Yes, if he is not one of the elect."

You answered flat out, "No."

And you would have left it at that if I had not responded and pointed out the implications of your "No" answer.

And that also matches the prayers you said you make.

You don't even follow your own system.

Thanks brother.

Nailed it, that's my biggest problem with any religion in general. I understand the positive aspects of faith, but this pushy determination to "save" people leads to evil things being done instead.

I am not discussing those issues as they have nothing to do with my post about your answer about jonny and the prayers you make.

You won't take this as the compliment that I intend it to be, but, when it comes to your thoughts about jonny and your prayers for the lost...

...you are a lousy Calvinist.

And that's a good thing.

Unfortunately you end up opposing yourself in order to try and defend the Calvinistic system your thoughts and prayers contradict.

Drop the Calvinism and stick with the Bible and you won't oppose and contradict yourself in those regards.

God doesn't want anyone in hell - just like you don't want jonny in hell.

God wants all men to be saved - just like you pray, "God help them make the right choice."

And God does require men to choose - just as you prayed.

Religions are invented by men who want wealth, power and influence.  What better way than to invent a religion and become the gatekeeper to God?

God wants a relationship with each one of us with no middle man - no religion - involved.

what?
Hebrews 4:12
   For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

God is perfect and not failing at all. its us that fail if we make God in our own image. read more Bible.

thats pretty wicked to accuse God of saving some of us by pre-destination while others not even though Gods son bore the sins of the whole world. thats a trademark of some false religions that worship the fallen angel veroni etc. that whole elect thing gets twisted. one thing you can do is look up every time the word elect is mentioned in the Bible. its easy if you do it online its all right there.

i think this is where youll need to be watchful of so called modern versions and study Bible commentary just stick with scripture.

ive knocked doors where mormons and jehovahs wittnesses were claiming they couldnt ever go to heaven no matter what due to their belief that they were not one of the 144 thousand. ive actually heard that from people that believed it but were truly saddened by it. i think i made a real impression on one once and i hope she ended up getting saved. that crap has to stop.

I don't pray that prayer Criley, as usual you misunderstand. I pray...please save so and so. Why, because I believe it's God's choice.

And yes, I think you take those passages about God's desire to save every single person out of context.

Did God make the wicked for the day of evil? Did God hate Easu and love Jacob before they were even born, before they had done anything good or evil?

What's so sad about your free willism is that it makes God so needy, so incompetent, that He can barely get things done, if at all. Your so afraid of God ordaining what so ever comes to pass, as if the whole thing is just a crap shoot and God is holding all of together ad hoc. He ORDAINED a Messiah in Genesis 3:15, and brought it about 4,000 years later.

Isaiah 46:9-11 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

The bible is absolutely full of these types of scriptures. Simply put, evil exists because God wanted and purposed it to exist. Is evil part of God's eternal counsel? Did He make the wicked for His own purposes? Again, something CAN NOT exist unless God says it will exist. He could have made a world with no sin, He's omnipotent, He will do away with evil permanently one day...He's omnipotent, He didn't though, did He? Why?

Sigh. I'll tell you what, read Ephesians Ch1 and let me know what "chosen before the foundation of the world" and "predestinated" mean in context.

i have to agree with you here its true. in fact the Bible preaches this what you said '' Religions are invented by men who want wealth, power and influence.  What better way than to invent a religion and become the gatekeeper to God?''

but you added this afterwards ''God wants a relationship with each one of us with no middle man - no religion - involved''.

thats untrue. heres one quick example why.  1 Timothy 2:5
   For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

keep in mind the weirdo tv preachers and mega churches are all talking about a ''relationship , relationship ,relationship always lately. like God needs us like its a fling or something. thats just creepy. dont fall for it. you either accept the work that Christ did on the cross or reject it plain as day. thats what saves.

the no religion involved while claiming relationship doesnt hold water either dont fall for it. think about it some more. one thing you can do if you feel that way is ask yourself how you got there and put down anything like beer weed etc that may distract you and just pray for God to reveal the Bible to you. id start in the book of john verse 1 chapter 1 all new Christians should start in the book of john.

All you free willers, was the John the Baptist regenerate in his mother's womb? Did he exercise his free will in there?

Just so you all know, Calvinists will say that Adam and Eve had libertarian free will. That God also ordained their fall. That how God's ordinance and their free fill interacted is a mystery. That when they fell into sin, their ability to obey God was destroyed, everything about them was corrupted, their will, their intellect, their affections, their words, their action...all sinful. They were dead in their trespasses and sins. Also the bible NEVER defines "freedom"  as choosing evil...that's slavery. Freedom is always defined as living righteously. So, the only truly free person since the fall is Jesus, He always thought, said and did righteously...that's freedom. He DID NOT have "free will" to choose evil, He did not have that capacity ever, and He was fully human.

Romans 1:10-18 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Where in all this horror can you possibly find a "freedom" of will to choose God, we don't even seek Him, let a lone choose Him.

But He wants ALL to be saved right? But they are not? Are they? So, God wants something yet can't seem to get it done. He gives them grace but they reject it, He's given them a perfect testimony, the Bible, but they reject it. Let me ask you, if salvation is dependent on our free will, it's theoretically possible that everyone would have rejected Him, would Christ have died in vain then. God wants all, but God can't have all...what's that say about your God?

if you ever have trouble understanding the meaning of scripture like all of us have had its super helpful to stop and pray for understanding before reading each time. thats what helped me alot. ephesians 1 verses 12 and 13 nails it pretty good its right there where you told me to look. im no pastor. im not even that good of a soul winner.

one thing i used to do is read out of context because thats how the whole world does it. come to find out thats the worst way to read the bible. always read the entire chapter if anything doesnt answer itself.


1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

please dont take this the wrong way i honestly mean no harm but scripture says that the unsaved can not understand scripture until they get saved. i dont know your situation but if there is any chance at all you are not saved or you believe you can lose your salvation off and on then you need to be truly saved according to the Bible first to read and understand the deep things that the Bible calls the meat of The Word.

theres milk for beginning Christians and meat for growing Christians as per scripture. the unsaved ''Christians'' in this world vastly outnumber the saved Christians. i can back all that up with scripture and none of that is my own opinion its pretty clear and easy to read. we all find stuff that stumps us but we have the choice to look further or shut the Bible and look elsaewhere. the Bible has no mysteries like TV claims it answers itself 100% of the time flawlessly.

No explanations allowed, how charitable of you.

Yes, I believe I am save, I am, to the best of my knowledge, trusting in the triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I don't believe one can lose their salvation, I don't believe you can free will yourself into the kingdom or out of the kingdom. Christ promised eternal life, not temporary life. I don't watch TV. And there are still mysteries, for instance...explain God's creative abilities, there are more.

Could you please explain those things I asked of?

its not possible that everyone rejected Christ because number one it never happened and number 2 its something you just invented in your own mind as an alternate universe. now youre being silly.

The God of the Bible is not just something you can twist and tweak to your own will all along the way. God created us and chose for us to have our own free will with good and bad results for decisions we knowingly make.

to say that God failed because some people rejected The Lord Jesus makes no sense. God doesnt need mindless drones without free will but rather scripture says the exact opposite. God is glorified by our love.

well honestly if you are saved tom thats the only thing that matters. everything else is a drop in the bucket.

if you have any mysteries about the Bible claim them here ill do my best to try and help. im sort of a novice. im no pastor just some life long gun guy that had bad luck and got saved versus jumping off a bridge so to speak. i was raised in a bunch of dirt bag churches and my own dad is a wicked false prophet age 70 plus ready to burn in hell totally unsavable.

long story but most of what ive learned has been recent especially a year or 2 before and during covid. i learned pretty fast during covid because i quit running a gun business and went soul winning door to door the entire time as people were suddenly extremely open to hearing the Gospel. the Bible commands us to go out to all the world small and great to spread the Gospel 2 by 2 so i was the best silent partner to some of the best soul winners youll ever find lol. in other words im not that great at soul winning. i kinda suck at it actually.

what else did you have a question about other than Gods creative abilities? God's creative abilities can be summed up i guess. ill do my best. God either created the universe or he didnt and if he didnt then it takes a genius to figure out how it happened so perfectly or else he did. sun radiation rotation location etc etc. at same time God gives us just enough info that we trust and please him by faith not by enormous overwhelming evidence. if that explains it let me know. scripture says without faith its impossible to please him.

Hebrews 11:6
   But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You conflate the holy relationship that God wants with man with a "fling or something."

That's patently wrong.

God DOES want a relationship with us.  Does a father have a RELATIONSHIP with his son?

I certainly do with mine.

That's how God speaks of the relationship He wants: when a sinner is saved he becomes a "son of God."

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

How are we to cry out to God?  "Abba Father."

Religion does not create that relationship.

Being born again creates that relationship.  

Your "explanations" after your statement are merely damage control after you realized the implication of your natural, immediate response to my question.

That is why I quoted your prayer, which matches your statement which you want to "explain."

The fact of the matter is, Calvinism is a man-made system that is so false even its subscribers can't follow it.

And if I am "uncharitable" for whatever reason...

According to your system I was preordained to be uncharitable.  And again, not following your own system, you criticize me for doing what God supposedly preordained me to do.

Let's see if you believe the Bible or Calvinism.

Open book test.

Heb 2: 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Does the scripture say Jesus tasted death for every man?

Calvinism says Jesus only died for the elect.

So which is it?  Do you believe the Bible or do you believe Calvinism?

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

Does the scripture say the grace of God that brings salvation appears to all men?

Calvinism says God's saving grace is irresistible.

Again, which do you choose?  The Bible or your man-made system that contradicts the scriptures?

John 5: 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Does the Bible say the dead can hear the voice of the Son of God?

Calvinism says the dead can't hear.

Which one do you believe, the words of Jesus, or the words of Calvin?

All these questions you raise, and the issues they present...  they are a direct result of you believing Calvinism instead of the Bible.  Once you believe the Bible instead of Calvinism you will have the answers to your own questions.  Until then, you remain in the dark, subscribing to a false man made system.

And lest you forget once again, your system says I was preordained to make this post and ask you these questions and make these statements.

And again, you didn't quote the Bible, you quoted Calvinism.

The Bible says "chosen IN HIM before the foundation of the world" in Ephesians 1.

When is a sinner IN CHRIST?  

According to the Bible it occurs when a sinner believes the gospel - not before.

Eph 2: 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time YE WERE WITHOUT Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

So although the METHOD of salvation was set in place before the foundation of the world - namely those IN CHRIST would be saved...

Sinners aren't IN CHRIST until they repent and believe the gospel.  The method was predetermined - not the individual souls that would be saved.

And predestination?

The Bible says those IN CHRIST are predestinated to become like Him.

The Bible doesn't say certain people are predestinated to be saved.

Systems take words in the Bible and redefine them to match the system.  Just as Calvinism has done with "chosen" and "predestinate."

That's all anyone needs to know about Calvinism.

God is the cause of sin according to this man-made system which is totally false.

Calvinism is a convoluted man-made system that contradicts itself.

"Adam and Eve had free will - but God ordained their fall."

Calvinists don't understand Biblical grace or Biblical love.

And it all stems from the fact that they have no understanding of the God of the Bible.

And their system is so far from the truth that many atheists will use it to reject even the notion of God's existence.

And you can't blame them.  If the true God was like the god of Calvinism he would warrant rejection.

The God of the Bible is the polar opposite of the god of Calvinism.

Everyone in the days of Noah rejected God...except 8 people. In your free will universe it could have happened.

Again, are you going to be a mindless drone in heaven when you can no longer reject God...you can ONLY love Him. Was Jesus a mindless drone because He could ONLY Love His father. He couldn't reject Him?

You didn't explain the exact or inexact nature of that creative power, how does it work.

The incarnation...how can a human nature and a divine nature exist a man making one person yet the natures are not mixed nor are they separated?

The whole issue is that He predestined actual people, he not just talking a methodology, but people who are counted faithful 1:1. Verse 11...we have obtained. etc.....real people.

Verse 5...5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Us...real people not just a methodology...predestined to adoption, adoption being the work of God alone, according to who's will..God's will, not our will.

You still haven't exegeted John 1:13

You make much of "In Him". The whole question concerning that is you want to make a function of dead sinners choosing to place themselves in Christ, postulating that dead sinners can believe at any time, and me, where dead sinners don't have the ability to believe, because they hate God, an complete inability to believe God...unless God reborns them first.

John 3:3 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he CANNOT see the kingdom of God.

John 3:5 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of God

You have dead God hating sinners actually seeing the kingdom, entering the kingdom, before the are born again because of their free will decision to enter. But Christ says the can't even see the kingdom/Christ untill they are born of the spirit.

You say that faith precedes the new birth, And I say faith is a fruit of and follows the new birth. In your scheme man saves himself. in mine God does all the saving and gets all the glory.

I will also note that every other religion out there is some sort of self salvation...I did something to save myself, I cranked up faith, I did works, I say the good deal and took it...I,I,I,I

In Reformed Christianity...God does ALL the heavy lifting. I sought my sheep, I quickened them, I gave them what I required (faith), I died for their sins, I, by my spirit, brought them into the kingdom. PURE GRACE. Salvation is ALL of grace. God gets ALL the glory.

And in the end you reject then the entire Protestant Reformation...Even Luther believed in the utter bondage of man's will. Almost every reformer if not all were Calvinistic. You condemn Augustine. You condemn the 2nd Council of Orange, You condemn a lot of people.

Again you err. There is no Calvinist that says God caused sin. Did or didn't God create the wicked for the day of evil. Instead of reading me in context saying that the relationship between evil and God is of a mystery, you zoom in the the work "ordained" and stop there. If evil exists, is it not because God said it would exist? Who runs the creation, men or God?

To Criley....after reflecting on the subject of mockery you brought up about me concerning you, I have to say that you are correct. I did mock you, at the time I thought it was a viable way to counter your arguments. It wasn't, even though the scriptures do use mockery sometimes, I didn't use it in a godly fashion. So I ask forgiveness of God for my pride, I ask you to forgive me Criley, and everyone else who may have been offended. I will repent and endeavor to better things. I will say this though. When I spoke of you being serious about his entering in to the kingdom, I was being serious. I do believe you were being serous with jonny, and can appreciate that seriousness. I can appreciate your overall seriousness about all these subjects, even though I diagree with you.

And with that I am bowing out. There's really nothing more for me to say. If you answer the above confession, I will read it, you deserve that I read it Criley. I wish you all well, I wish you all find Christ and cling to His promises...there is no other hope.

You guys junked up an entertaining thread. This is the dogmatic trivia that your safe space is for.

As stated and shown throughout this thread you can't comprehend or even follow your own system.

How did the fall of man occur?  Because of man's sin.  If God ordained that (and to ordain that it means that God ordered it to happen) God is the cause of that fall.

Calvinism's lame attempt to do away with that simple fact by calling it "mystery" is simply ludicrous.

It's hardly a trivial matter for a man-made system that claims to be Christian, to entirely misrepresent the very nature of God, the fall of man, and who can or cannot be saved.

And of course, the discussion is entirely on topic: "Who are those who can never be saved?"

Protestants tried to reform a religion that should have been rejected.

Protestants murdered those who disagreed with them just as the religion they supposedly "reformed" did.

You evidently have no clue about Augustine.  Before Augustine supposedly became a Christian he subscribed to the Manachean religion which had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.  Interestingly enough, Manacheanism held that there were three classes of people:  the elect, the damned, and those who were to assist the elect in this life.  He simply brought part of his prior false religion with him when he called himself a Christian.

After he supposedly became a Christian he endorsed the execution of those who denied the effectiveness of infant baptism and maintained that baptism was only for for those who believe the gospel. He also believed in conversion by force (like I said, Calvinists can't even follow their own system) - it was convert or die.

And then Calvin, who claimed he was simply following Augustine's lead when he wrote his institutes did just that when he was instrumental in the execution of Michael Servetus for theological disagreements.

Criley,
Above you mentioned that the Method of salvation was set before creation.  Which I believe.  But why was there a need for a method of salvation(The Gospel) if people were not in sin?  If God knew they would sin and some would reject Him, and it’s up to the person, God knowingly created people that he knew would reject Him and they would end up in Hell.  Why Would He do that?  In the Reformed world we understand that we are all sinners deserving of hell.  God, for his own Glory, chooses to save some though we do not deserve it.  Others, He let’s them continue to live as they want, which is not for Him.  This also is for His Glory as stated in Romans.  So everyone who ever lived or will live serves a purpose.

So what purpose do unrepentant sinners who never accept Christ serve in a free will scenario?  None that I can see.  

To me, A God that knew he was creating people that would be damned and would serve no purpose, makes less sense.  Why wouldn’t He only create the people whom He knew would accept him using their free will?

Tom, I have absolutely nothing against you personally.  My disagreement with you hinges on your support of a man-made doctrine that is diametrically opposed to Biblical Christianity.

I am encouraged by your heart felt statement that you don't want jonny to end up in hell, and that you pray that the lost make the right choice and trust what Jesus did on the cross to save them from their sins.

You are entirely correct that Christ is the only hope of mankind.

Forgive me for repeating myself, because I will have to do that to answer you.

For some reason, Calvinists can't comprehend what actual love is when it comes to God.

God created beings with the capacity to choose because without choice - no mutual relationship based on love can exist.

Calvinism maintains that God simply created robots who lacked that capacity.  And that some of His robots- the elect - He would reprogram to "love" Him, while those He doesn't want to reprogram - those unelected - will be destroyed in hell.

Calvinists know that that is not how love works in the real world.  You couldn't program your wife to love you.  She had to choose to do that.  You couldn't program your close friends to love you - they had to choose to do that.  By the same token your wife and friends couldn't program you to love them - you chose to love them.

No one forced Jesus Christ to go to the cross.  He did that freely because He created man for His good pleasure - and that means a perfect relationship with perfect fellowship between God and man - absent sin.

Your last question: "Why wouldn’t He only create the people whom He knew would accept him using their free will?" actually negates itself.  It would mean that His creation actually had no choice.  God: "I am only going to create people who will choose to love me" =/= free choice.  It's simply skirting around the concept of free choice without actually allowing it.

If your child was standing in the middle of the road and a truck was headed towards them would you risk your life to go push your child out of the way and save them? I’m assuming the answer is yes. Are you a robot and your child forced you to do this? no. You do it out of love because you do not have an option. I believe that before people are regenerate they do what they want to do. But they view God as if they were a head of lettuce in the middle of the road and not their child. They are not going to do anything but stay in there and watch.  What’s the Holy Spirit regenerates you? Your eyes are opened and you view God differently. You are not a robot. You just truly understand the love of God for you and you cannot help but love God back. Just like when you go to save your child out of love that it’s not because you are a robot. Your child is not forcing you to do that.  it is an unconditional love that will not allow you to choose to just stand there and watch.

As to my question on, God only creating people who will choose him. Perhaps I was not clear does God know before creation whether you will choose him or reject him? I believe god is all knowing it does. Of course, if you do not believe that God knows this before we were born, and we surprised him with our choice, then your response would make sense. If he does know whether people will choose, or reject them before they are created using their free will, and he only created people that would choose him because he knows the others would not that would not make them robots.

Calvinism misrepresents regeneration as well. Regeneration is synonymous with salvation.  It occurs when a sinner believes the gospel, not before.

Titus 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Regeneration = new birth = born again = salvation.

I might regret this, but what is “backing water”?

That doesn’t answer my question.

And we will have to differ in our belief in regeneration.  You must be reborn to see the Kingdom of Heaven.  How can you make a choice to chose the Kingdom if you haven’t seen it?

In the end I believe that it was God who offered His Son for my sins and called me.  If you are a believer, which I believe that you are, I believe that he did the same for you.

I do not believe that I, in a sinful state, weighed the options and chose God on my own, weighing the options and coming to the correct conclusion using only human reasoning.

If you believe the stories, he really just gave up a long weekend.

I guess it's a regional or maybe just a local saying.  When someone "backs water" they are trying to undo what has already been done... or take back something they already said.  Like pushing back the water that already flowed down the stream.

Calvinism certainly states God is all knowing.  Many believers, regardless of what they think about Calvinism think that God is all knowing.

God certainly has specifically stated that there are things which He is going to bring to pass.  Like, the Jews would be in bondage in Egypt for 400 years and then He would set them free. God established them as a nation just as He said He would.  When they later went into captivity because of their rebellion against God,  God prophesied through Isaiah that Cyrus would set them free long before Cyrus was born.  All the many, many prophecies about Jesus were brought to pass.

God saying He was going to do those things and then bringing them to pass prove that God is who He says He is.

But the same Bible that tells us God brought those things to pass also tells us He doesn't know everything.  In fact, it says that precisely:

Jer 19: 3 And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents; 5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

According to the word of God the Jews sacrificing their children as burnt offerings to idols never entered into His mind.

And then, as a result of the Jews doing something that never entered into His mind, He said He would bring something to pass as a result of that:

6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter. 7 And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.

And then He did bring it to pass.

Furthermore, if God knows everything (but we have seen according to the Bible that is not the case) then God is liar.  The Bible tells us it is impossible for Him to lie.

When someone, even God, says they are going to do something and when they say it they know they have no intention of doing what they said they were going to do - it's a lie.  Plain and simple, no argument.

When Moses was up on the mount with God the people rebelled against God and wanted Aaron to make them gods.  Aaron did that and the people worshiped the idol made with men's hands.  God told Moses to step aside and He would destroy the people and start over again with Moses:

Ex 32: 7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: 8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.


Did God consume them and start over again with Moses?

No He did not.  Moses interceded and God changed His mind:

11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?  12Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. 14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

This happens multiple times throughout the Bible.  

Jonah is sent by God to Nineveh to tell them that God is going to destroy them in 40 days.  God didn't tell Jonah to tell them "Repent or in 40 days He would destroy them"... no, there was no quid pro quo.  It was simply, "Forty days and you're outta here."

Was Nineveh destroyed in 40 days?  No, the people of Nineveh repented and God changed His mind and didn't destroy them.

God tells Isaiah to tell King Hezekiah it is time for him to die.  Hezekiah beseeches the Lord to not take his life and God changes His mind and lets Hezekiah live another 15 years.

The Bible says that Jesus LEARNED obedience.  God - the Word - never had to subject Himself to the command of another.  But when the Word became flesh He subjected Himself to the will of the Father.  And when it came time to go to the cross He prayed to the Father and said not my will, but thy will be done.  Prior to that God didn't know what it was like to have to be obedient.

So the Bible is clear that there are things God hasn't chosen to know in advance.

But most people don't believe the Bible.  Most saved people don't even believe the Bible.

God hasn't predetermined who will be saved and who won't be.

Names are blotted out of the book of life.  It was all predetermined no names would be blotted out.

Ps 69:26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. 27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Hell was enlarged.  If it was all predetermined the size wouldn't need to change.

Isa 5:13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst. 14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

One must be born again to see the kingdom of God.  The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven share some similarities but are not the same.

God didn't put a choice before sinners to enter into a kingdom or not.

The choice is to believe that God is, and to believe that they are sinners, and to believe that their sins can be forgiven if they believe the gospel - that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again.

It's not about choosing God on your own and only using human reasoning.

God put knowledge of Himself in everyone.  He gives light to everyone.  He deals faith to everyone. Man's conscience, given to him by God, shows man he is a sinner.

Having done those things for man however, God says THEN men must reason with God:

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

The basic starting point for man is: man knows God exists and that he has sinned against God.

Where man goes from there is up to him.

As we both know, there are plenty of people who head in the opposite direction from God.

But there are those who repent - turn towards God - and believe the gospel.

  Oh it was much more than that. He endured a savage beating and horrific death. An then, on the Cross He bore all the shame of the sin of mankind. Even you.
  If all the bad things you ever did were suddenly showed to you, you would (I hope) feel shame like you never felt before.   Now multiply than by every man and woman that ever lived.
  This was so horrific to God the Father, that He had to turn His face away. The Bible doesn't say but the Holy Spirit probably vacated as well.  He was for the first time in all eternity, separated from God's grace and the human part of Him cried out in anguish you have never felt, not yet.  All the anguish of all mankind dumped on Him at once.  
  Separation from God is the second death which He had to endure on our behalf.  This is the price with which he paid for our sin. If someone offered to pay a hefty fine for a crime that you committed, and had no hope of ever earning enough money to pay it, you would be a fool to turn it down.

To say all He gave up was a long weekend is simplistic and asinine even for your ilk.

Amen.

2 Cor 5: 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Heb 12: 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

We can't begin to conceive the shame He had as He was made to be sin for us and bore our sins in His own body on the tree.

2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

It transcends time.

Well, that's basically required to follow Calvinism.  All sorts of Biblical words have to be redefined to support the system.

Biblically:  To be saved = is to be born again = is to be born of the Spirit = is to be regenerated = is to be in Christ = to be a new creature = is to be translated from darkness to light = is to be quickened = is to believe the gospel = is to pass from death unto life...

Regardless of what Calvinism teaches, according to Jesus dead men can hear His voice and they that hear receive life.

Regeneration doesn't occur before salvation, it is salvation, as the verse I cited early states.

Titus 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

Great Post!!