[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Who here works at an ammo manufacturer? Let's compare notes!*Wolf, Rem, Win, etc--are you out there (Page 5 of 8)
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No free samples...except the occasional hat or ID card neck strap or shirt from marketing. XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. Depending on whether you get a "gun guy" working the machines that day, depends on the quality of the product. I'm sorry to say that most days, you are getting non-gun guys and girls working these lines. Bu, bu but but but...ammo will teh blow up if you tumble it in soft media 
 Ok, I got a question...... I have seen first hand a primer go off from having a round "thrown back in the bin". It's happened more than once on our range (our dept probably goes through at least a million rounds a year). I've also seen a write up on this exact thing in on of the gun rags not too long ago. So, how often does this happen at work? what happens when one goes off like this? case fly around? This almost never happens, in fact, in my time there, I have never even been briefed about it. One line lead mentioned it one day, that's it. It will cause shrapnel. It does happen, albeit rarely. primers go off every once in awhile––they get run over or some of the guys get bored. I'd say a primer gets detonated every other day my shift. but that's just the ones I personally witness, and I spend more time in other parts of the plant. |
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Looks like a Barnes TSX bullet.
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XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. What military is buying M193? This is an common point of contention when XM193 is discussed, do you have any answers to this? only what I have posted––somewhere along the line, LC makes M193 and federal gets the rejects, which are Xm193. We can only deduce that someone, somewhere is using M193. Soerry I can't do better than that. Someone from LC needs to hop on and fill us in. Quoted:
One thing I forgot about the .mil rounds––we make the SCAR load in 556 and 762, the bullets are made in house. All become SCAR rounds and are sent to various .mil and government agencies. the brown tipped training round (frangible and non toxic) is out sourced (bullet) and assembled in-house. What are these? Are these labeled as FN ammunition? Projectile type and weight? Here's a pic of one of the employee's 7.62 SCAR round boxes. Pretty special projectile and very effective. The material is "smart" and reacts differently depending on what it hits. Reports from the field have been very positive. http://i46.tinypic.com/e6vqzm.jpg We have a very good relationship with Barnes. however, if I understand the head of the SCAR munitions program correctly, these are all made in house. In fact, I have seen them being produced and the grooves or cannelures being cut with my very eyes. The munition is not entirely solid, it is powdered––that's how it's "smart"––just the mechanics of physics. Too bad I'm not an engineer so I could explain it better. so it is just repackaged DRT ammo? quick, let CTD know! I don't know what DRT ammo is... 
Anyways, the SCAR round was developed by Federal and is built in-house, as per the head of the SCAR program here. We make the bullets and cases, apparently. So I have been told. And the military loves both the 762 and 556 loading. I think the RCMP just bought a trial order of 600k rounds. |
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Looks like a Barnes TSX bullet. Quoted:
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XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. What military is buying M193? This is an common point of contention when XM193 is discussed, do you have any answers to this? only what I have posted––somewhere along the line, LC makes M193 and federal gets the rejects, which are Xm193. We can only deduce that someone, somewhere is using M193. Soerry I can't do better than that. Someone from LC needs to hop on and fill us in. Quoted:
One thing I forgot about the .mil rounds––we make the SCAR load in 556 and 762, the bullets are made in house. All become SCAR rounds and are sent to various .mil and government agencies. the brown tipped training round (frangible and non toxic) is out sourced (bullet) and assembled in-house. What are these? Are these labeled as FN ammunition? Projectile type and weight? Here's a pic of one of the employee's 7.62 SCAR round boxes. Pretty special projectile and very effective. The material is "smart" and reacts differently depending on what it hits. Reports from the field have been very positive. http://i46.tinypic.com/e6vqzm.jpg Found some info on these loads, maybe? Starts on page 16... US Navy Small Arms Ammunition Advancements Mk 318 5.56mm and Mk 319 7.62mm, thread is over here. |
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ChickenDaddy,
I have a question I am curious about. I am from St. Cloud area and en engineer for a company that does work for alot of various local and out-state manufactures large and small. Basically we design/build custom equipment that usually in some way shape or form assists in manufacturing of a product. Do you ever see local companies contracted to do work for, or design/build custom equipment that isn't "off the shelf" for the Anoka plant? I have never been in that plant, but just curious if they go to the outside much for tooling, repair, or specialty equipment. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No free samples...except the occasional hat or ID card neck strap or shirt from marketing. XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. Depending on whether you get a "gun guy" working the machines that day, depends on the quality of the product. I'm sorry to say that most days, you are getting non-gun guys and girls working these lines. Bu, bu but but but...ammo will teh blow up if you tumble it in soft media Ok, I got a question...... I have seen first hand a primer go off from having a round "thrown back in the bin". It's happened more than once on our range (our dept probably goes through at least a million rounds a year). I've also seen a write up on this exact thing in on of the gun rags not too long ago. So, how often does this happen at work? what happens when one goes off like this? case fly around? No, usually just the primer blows off the back and a few people just mess up their perferctly clean undershorts. |
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ChickenDaddy, I have a question I am curious about. I am from St. Cloud area and en engineer for a company that does work for alot of various local and out-state manufactures large and small. Basically we design/build custom equipment that usually in some way shape or form assists in manufacturing of a product. Do you ever see local companies contracted to do work for, or design/build custom equipment that isn't "off the shelf" for the Anoka plant? I have never been in that plant, but just curious if they go to the outside much for tooling, repair, or specialty equipment. Lots is done in-house by maintenence and HVAC staff; but I know that the check weigh machines are outsourced. The new packaging line was actually set up by our staff. |
| You mention you guys making a run of caliber X, then a run of caliber Y. So does that mean there are not many parallel production lines? ie a line for 9mm, one for 45, one for 5.56, etc?? Instead the rounds are made in batches and then the tooling has to be swapped out to make different caliber? |
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Well, not exactly, we are always making components for 9 and 40, then we usually dedicate 1 or 2 machines to making 380 and 45 or just on or the other.
The load line I believe, (don't work there) has 4 different lines and usually does the same as us, has 3 lines for 9 and 40 then dedicates 1 or 2 to the 380 and 45 varients. |
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You mention you guys making a run of caliber X, then a run of caliber Y. So does that mean there are not many parallel production lines? ie a line for 9mm, one for 45, one for 5.56, etc?? Instead the rounds are made in batches and then the tooling has to be swapped out to make different caliber? Mostly designted lines, but the large rifle gets swapped around between 30 cal types frequently. Most production is dedicated from making brass through packaging, but there are some variances––say 10mm, which will require small changes to all the lines up the chain. (Usually only one 40 cal line is affetced, and we have three for 40 cal due to making ICE contract munitions 24/7). 38 super same way. Lots of the really old, low speed machines get run for these smaller batches. 45ACP has two JIT (brass forming) lines, two Primer Insert machines, and one loader, and two types of packing machines. It's easy to see why 45ACP is not run 100% of the time––the JIT lines are slower than the PI's, and the loader is slower than the packaging machines. |
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I work at Lake City and I can tell you that XM-193 is a commercial product manufactured at LC, the Bunter used to form the case head and stamp is not the same as used for the .MIL ball round, the headstamp used for M193, M855, M856, M200, M195, and the Proofing load, is not the same as the stamp on the XM product. It comes off the line and is commercially boxed right here at Lake City, No I can't provide pics either... No cameras allowed on post
the XM855 product is different but it is sorted 3 times in our facility and shipped out in 1000 round boxes. Since 2001 when ATK took over operations at LCAAP there have been 10 BILLION rounds manufactured here that works out to roughly 126840 per hour, presuming that the plant ran 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and that includes ONLY rounds delivered to the US ARMY. 5.56 Ball, Trace, Blank, Grenade Blank (I was unaware of this one until I started working here) and Proof loading. The US MILITARY is currently buying as much of this as can be produced, Of course they CAN reject ammunition for almost ANY reason. 7.62 Ball, Trace, Dim Trace, Long Range, Blank and Proof. 50 Cal ALL rounds (Some of this is sold as seconds XM33 AE branded not commercial packed at LCAAP) 20mm All rounds. Lake City is sitting on 4400 acres of land, and incorporates over 100 buildings You can find the plant on Google Earth One of the Production buildings Covers easily the ground usually covered by a LARGE shopping mall, Yet there are only 1500 or so people employed here at the present time. Currently 5.56 is produced split between two buildings and another produces 7.62, 50 and 20mm, Primers are produced in yet another building. the NATO Ballistics testing lab is located on site... There is a warehouse for finished product on site as well. The pic below shows the XM-193 Commercial product on the Left, this headstamp is COMMERCIAL MFR only, it is ONLY found on COMMERCIAL M-200 blanks, and COMMERCIAL XM-193 product. The Headstamp on the RIGHT is the LC Nato headstamp ONLY found on product delivered to the Military, that is an M193 from 2003, I bought it as a FEDERAL branded product. Rumors abound but this is the No BS honest truth. The Same line that produces the XM product also produces rounds headstamped AE 223 and FC 223 REM. Only FMJ bullets are loaded here... LC makes the Bullet, the Brass, the Primer, all on site the only thing that is NOT Made here is the propellent. The Brass and Copper Cups used for the bullet jacket and the Case ALL come from Olin...The Military no longer buys M-193, Only the 62 grain loading. 
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So faulty xm193 is bad qc? Quoted:
I work at Lake City and I can tell you that XM-193 is a commercial product manufactured at LC, the Bunter used to form the case head and stamp is not the same as used for the .MIL ball round, the headstamp used for M193, M855, M856, M200, M195, and the Proofing load, is not the same as the stamp on the XM product. It comes off the line and is commercially boxed right here at Lake City, No I can't provide pics either... No cameras allowed on post the XM855 product is different but it is sorted 3 times in our facility and shipped out in 1000 round boxes. Since 2001 when ATK took over operations at LCAAP there have been 10 BILLION rounds manufactured here that works out to roughly 126840 per hour, presuming that the plant ran 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and that includes ONLY rounds delivered to the US ARMY. 5.56 Ball, Trace, Blank, Grenade Blank (I was unaware of this one until I started working here) and Proof loading. The US MILITARY is currently buying as much of this as can be produced, Of course they CAN reject ammunition for almost ANY reason. 7.62 Ball, Trace, Dim Trace, Long Range, Blank and Proof. 50 Cal ALL rounds (Some of this is sold as seconds XM33 AE branded not commercial packed at LCAAP) 20mm All rounds. Lake City is sitting on 4400 acres of land, and incorporates over 100 buildings You can find the plant on Google Earth One of the Production buildings Covers easily the ground usually covered by a LARGE shopping mall, Yet there are only 1500 or so people employed here at the present time. Currently 5.56 is produced split between two buildings and another produces 7.62, 50 and 20mm, Primers are produced in yet another building. the NATO Ballistics testing lab is located on site... There is a warehouse for finished product on site as well. The pic below shows the XM-193 Commercial product on the Left, this headstamp is COMMERCIAL MFR only, it is ONLY found on COMMERCIAL M-200 blanks, and COMMERCIAL XM-193 product. The Headstamp on the RIGHT is the LC Nato headstamp ONLY found on product delivered to the Military, that is an M193 from 2003, I bought it as a FEDERAL branded product. Rumors abound but this is the No BS honest truth. The Same line that produces the XM product also produces rounds headstamped AE 223 and FC 223 REM. Only FMJ bullets are loaded here... LC makes the Bullet, the Brass, the Primer, all on site the only thing that is NOT Made here is the propellent. The Brass and Copper Cups used for the bullet jacket and the Case ALL come from Olin...The Military no longer buys M-193, Only the 62 grain loading. http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/AFSOC/LCHeadstamps.jpg |
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I work at Lake City .... Where do you work? When I was there (with Olin, just before the ATK days), I used to work in the Bldg 4 mezzanine where the facilities engineers were. When things were slow, I'd go talk to the manufacturing engineers in the Bldg 1 mezzanine, go out to Bldg 45 and chat with the testers at the outdoor ranges, or go to Bldg 8 and chat with the gunsmiths and testers at the indoor ranges (I think those Bldg numbers are correct, but it was over 15 years ago...). Do they still raffle the shotgun hunts, or has the deer population dwindled now? |
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I work at Lake City and I can tell you that XM-193 is a commercial product manufactured at LC, the Bunter used to form the case head and stamp is not the same as used for the .MIL ball round, the headstamp used for M193, M855, M856, M200, M195, and the Proofing load, is not the same as the stamp on the XM product. It comes off the line and is commercially boxed right here at Lake City, No I can't provide pics either... No cameras allowed on post the XM855 product is different but it is sorted 3 times in our facility and shipped out in 1000 round boxes. Since 2001 when ATK took over operations at LCAAP there have been 10 BILLION rounds manufactured here that works out to roughly 126840 per hour, presuming that the plant ran 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and that includes ONLY rounds delivered to the US ARMY. 5.56 Ball, Trace, Blank, Grenade Blank (I was unaware of this one until I started working here) and Proof loading. The US MILITARY is currently buying as much of this as can be produced, Of course they CAN reject ammunition for almost ANY reason. 7.62 Ball, Trace, Dim Trace, Long Range, Blank and Proof. 50 Cal ALL rounds (Some of this is sold as seconds XM33 AE branded not commercial packed at LCAAP) 20mm All rounds. Lake City is sitting on 4400 acres of land, and incorporates over 100 buildings You can find the plant on Google Earth One of the Production buildings Covers easily the ground usually covered by a LARGE shopping mall, Yet there are only 1500 or so people employed here at the present time. Currently 5.56 is produced split between two buildings and another produces 7.62, 50 and 20mm, Primers are produced in yet another building. the NATO Ballistics testing lab is located on site... There is a warehouse for finished product on site as well. The pic below shows the XM-193 Commercial product on the Left, this headstamp is COMMERCIAL MFR only, it is ONLY found on COMMERCIAL M-200 blanks, and COMMERCIAL XM-193 product. The Headstamp on the RIGHT is the LC Nato headstamp ONLY found on product delivered to the Military, that is an M193 from 2003, I bought it as a FEDERAL branded product. Rumors abound but this is the No BS honest truth. The Same line that produces the XM product also produces rounds headstamped AE 223 and FC 223 REM. Only FMJ bullets are loaded here... LC makes the Bullet, the Brass, the Primer, all on site the only thing that is NOT Made here is the propellent. The Brass and Copper Cups used for the bullet jacket and the Case ALL come from Olin...The Military no longer buys M-193, Only the 62 grain loading. http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/AFSOC/LCHeadstamps.jpg Dude, I just bought XM193 and the headstamps are pictured on the right... |
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I work at Lake City .... Where do you work? When I was there (with Olin, just before the ATK days), I used to work in the Bldg 4 mezzanine where the facilities engineers were. When things were slow, I'd go talk to the manufacturing engineers in the Bldg 1 mezzanine, go out to Bldg 45 and chat with the testers at the outdoor ranges, or go to Bldg 8 and chat with the gunsmiths and testers at the indoor ranges (I think those Bldg numbers are correct, but it was over 15 years ago...). Do they still raffle the shotgun hunts, or has the deer population dwindled now? Still correct on 45 and 8, don't know Bldg 4 at this point... I am in Quality. |
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Wow, I think you're the perfect person for my question. Are the .223 Federal tactical TRU SP 64 grain rounds any good? I was offered some of this ammo, but I'm not sure how good they are. Thanks!! Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile they are from our premium line, so I would put them on the good guy list. The blems I have fired seem accurate enough, and no function problems so far. I think it's a plus they are non toxic––most of our non tox loads have an "N" indented on the primer. Thanks! 
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Dude, I just bought XM193 and the headstamps are pictured on the right... Perhaps so, What packaging is it? 30 round on strippers or AE 100 or 200 round box? or 20 Round Box AE? I believe the 193 AF is left over USAF contract, that product should have the NATO headstamp, the C or CBP product should be the "Alternate" headstamp not saying that there is not some product that makes it to the world with improper headstamp but the US Military can reject product for about ANY reason... Reasons that a commercial product would not be subject to. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Dude, I just bought XM193 and the headstamps are pictured on the right... Perhaps so, What packaging is it? 30 round on strippers or AE 100 or 200 round box? or 20 Round Box AE? I believe the 193 AF is left over USAF contract, that product should have the NATO headstamp, the C or CBP product should be the "Alternate" headstamp not saying that there is not some product that makes it to the world with improper headstamp but the US Military can reject product for about ANY reason... Reasons that a commercial product would not be subject to. I too have the headstamp pictured on the right on a case of boxed 20 AE I bought last year. This is a fascinating thread, thanks Chickendaddy for posting it and thank you AFSOC for the further enlightenment. |
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So faulty xm193 is bad qc? Quoted:
Been shooting the XM-193 for a long assed time (probably longer than most here have been shooting), I have never had a faulty round... Then again I have shot millions of rounds of XM855PD and only ever had ONE bent round that failed to chamber... I have bought a ton of the stuff and still haven't broken into my 09 headstamp stuff. I am still buying it and will continue to do so (No I do not get a discount, we are supposed to have an employee ammo sale but I have YET to get anything that I ordered!) I buy from a distributor as a dealer, which I am as well. Don't know what Failures you have encountered but I won't say that it is without peer... Though I have tested a lot of ammunition myself not for LC, and I have found the XM loadings to be FAR more consistent in velocity shot to shot than any other ammunition tested... To include Q3131A, Olin MFR M855, Federal Commercial loading (Bulk pack from Walmart) Wolf, PPU, TCW, Centurion, etc. All has been within Military specification. IMI I found to be the hottest ammunition tested... generally a couple hundred feet per second faster than the US mfr... I have not recently done any accuracy testing. But Saturday I sighted in a handful of rifles and the LC XM-193 03 was the most accurate that I had on hand, it grouped tighter than the other loadings... (HSM 62 grain FMJBT loading) But that said the commercial product doesn't stand the same QC as the Military ammuntion, Military ammo can be rejected for ANY reason whatsoever... Not accurate enough, too many failures, too shiney, not shiney enough case annealing, sealants, light headstamp, heavy headstamp, etc etc... the list is endless... really... Generally speaking any product that is found to have too many "FAILURES" to fire is destroyed, Any defects found to be dangerous, destroyed. Keep in mind that the XM product is sold as a training ammunition not front line tactical ammunition. I would still be far more likely to carry this into harm's way than just about anything else in it's price range. So far I have 2600 rounds of 09 headstamp on hand. When I start shooting it I will keep an eye out for failures. All I can tell is that the ammunition being manufactured in that building as commercial is being packaged and manufactured AS COMMERCIAL I don't make policy. |
Oh well. haha
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All I can tell is that the ammunition being manufactured in that building as commercial is being packaged and manufactured AS COMMERCIAL I don't make policy. So are you saying the XM193 that we buy from RSR Group/Jerry's Sport Center, etc is being manufactured and boxed for commercial sale without any sort of reject from the Military? |
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I work at Lake City .... Where do you work? When I was there (with Olin, just before the ATK days), I used to work in the Bldg 4 mezzanine where the facilities engineers were. When things were slow, I'd go talk to the manufacturing engineers in the Bldg 1 mezzanine, go out to Bldg 45 and chat with the testers at the outdoor ranges, or go to Bldg 8 and chat with the gunsmiths and testers at the indoor ranges (I think those Bldg numbers are correct, but it was over 15 years ago...). Do they still raffle the shotgun hunts, or has the deer population dwindled now? Still correct on 45 and 8, don't know Bldg 4 at this point... I am in Quality. I wonder whether any of the old-timers from my day are still around? I remember old-man Langevin's nephew or son was recently arrested for theft... TWO FORMER LAKE CITY EMPLOYEES SENTENCED FOR SABOTAGE OF WAR MATERIALS STOLE THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF COPPER USED TO MANUFACTURE BULLETS FOR THE ARMY The United States Department of Justice OFFICE OF THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY WESTERN DISTRICT OF MISSOURI JOHN F. WOOD Contact Don Ledford, Public Affairs | (816) 426-4220 | 400 East Ninth Street, Room 5510 ? Kansas City, MO 64106 www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/index.html Jan. 15, 2009 KANSAS CITY, Mo. - John F. Wood, United States Attorney for the Western District of Missouri, announced that two former employees of a firm operating at the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence, Mo., were sentenced in federal court today for stealing more than 16,000 pounds of copper components used to manufacture ammunition for the U.S. Army, which they sold for scrap metal. Charles Dale Osborn, 46, of Odessa, Mo., and Timothy Duane Langevin, 36, of Independence, Mo., were sentenced in separate appearances before U.S. District Judge Howard F. Sachs. Osborn was sentenced to three years in federal prison without parole. Langevin was sentenced to two years in federal prison without parole. On Aug. 19, 2008, Osborn and Langevin pleaded guilty to participating in a conspiracy to steal specially fabricated copper components, known in the munitions industry as bullet cups, which are used to manufacture copper-jacketed 7.62 mm bullets, from the Lake City plant from Sept. 27, 2007, through March 28, 2008. Osborn and Langevin delivered the bullet cups for destruction to the Fusselman Salvage Company in Moberly, Mo. The diversion of bullet cups interfered with and obstructed the ability of the United States to prepare for and carry on war activities by interrupting the supply of 7.62 mm rounds of ammunition to the U.S. Army. The 7.62 mm rounds are manufactured by Alliant Techsystems, Inc., at the Lake City plant under a contract with the U.S. Army to deliver 7.62 mm ammunition to be used by soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Osborn and Langevin were employed as machine repairmen by Alliant Techsystems during the course of the conspiracy. Osborn and Langevin diverted approximately 16,528 pounds of copper bullet cups from the Lake City plant to Fusselman Salvage Company. That amount of copper would otherwise have produced approximately 1.5 million rounds of ammunition, and amounts to more than two weeks' production of 7.62 mm ammunition. Osborn and Langevin shared approximately $45,362 in proceeds from salvaging the copper material, which was valued at $78,838. Osborn and Langevin initially used five gallon buckets to transport the bullet cups from the grounds of Lake City to the salvage company. Later, they used a company forklift to move entire skids of large boxes containing the bullet cups to a pickup truck for transport. Finally, the amounts of material became so large that the conspirators rented a U-Haul trailer to transport the material. This case was prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorney John E. Cowles. It was investigated by the U.S. Army Joint Munitions Command and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. **************** This news release, as well as additional information about the office of the United States Attorney for the Western District of Missouri, is available on-line at www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/index.html |
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I will prolly get flamed for low post count but I work at Speer in ATK's Lewiston plant as a centerfire metal parts setup. I setup and run machines that make 380, 9 40 and 45 in speer, cci, blazer brass, and federal. We do have a company store and I am barely allowed to buy what I shoot in a week every thursday. Lewiston plants (speer, cci, southport) are running 24/7. We are expanding RAPIDLY. Adding many new machines here in a couple months and have lots of extra people ready so they are all still properly manned. Shoot any questions...I've only been there since June but my father has been there since 1978. What can you tell me about this ammo? Speer bulk packaged 124 grain Gold Dots for practice only. 9mm 124gr Gold Dot HP Speer CCI 250 round
$84.99 9mm 124gr Gold Dot HP Speer CCI 250 round Gold Dot is the top of the line CCI defense / Law enforcement ammo. This is 250 rounds bulk practice ammo. This is a smokin deal. That works out to $6.80 per 20 rounds It is a limited supply, so it will not last. |
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I work at Lake City .... Where do you work? When I was there (with Olin, just before the ATK days), I used to work in the Bldg 4 mezzanine where the facilities engineers were. When things were slow, I'd go talk to the manufacturing engineers in the Bldg 1 mezzanine, go out to Bldg 45 and chat with the testers at the outdoor ranges, or go to Bldg 8 and chat with the gunsmiths and testers at the indoor ranges (I think those Bldg numbers are correct, but it was over 15 years ago...). Do they still raffle the shotgun hunts, or has the deer population dwindled now? Still correct on 45 and 8, don't know Bldg 4 at this point... I am in Quality. I wonder whether any of the old-timers from my day are still around? I remember old-man Langevin's nephew or son was recently arrested for theft... TWO FORMER LAKE CITY EMPLOYEES SENTENCED FOR SABOTAGE OF WAR MATERIALS STOLE THOUSANDS OF POUNDS OF COPPER USED TO MANUFACTURE BULLETS FOR THE ARMY The United States Department of Justice OFFICE OF THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY WESTERN DISTRICT OF MISSOURI JOHN F. WOOD Contact Don Ledford, Public Affairs | (816) 426-4220 | 400 East Ninth Street, Room 5510 ? Kansas City, MO 64106 www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/index.html Jan. 15, 2009 KANSAS CITY, Mo. - John F. Wood, United States Attorney for the Western District of Missouri, announced that two former employees of a firm operating at the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence, Mo., were sentenced in federal court today for stealing more than 16,000 pounds of copper components used to manufacture ammunition for the U.S. Army, which they sold for scrap metal. Charles Dale Osborn, 46, of Odessa, Mo., and Timothy Duane Langevin, 36, of Independence, Mo., were sentenced in separate appearances before U.S. District Judge Howard F. Sachs. Osborn was sentenced to three years in federal prison without parole. Langevin was sentenced to two years in federal prison without parole. On Aug. 19, 2008, Osborn and Langevin pleaded guilty to participating in a conspiracy to steal specially fabricated copper components, known in the munitions industry as bullet cups, which are used to manufacture copper-jacketed 7.62 mm bullets, from the Lake City plant from Sept. 27, 2007, through March 28, 2008. Osborn and Langevin delivered the bullet cups for destruction to the Fusselman Salvage Company in Moberly, Mo. The diversion of bullet cups interfered with and obstructed the ability of the United States to prepare for and carry on war activities by interrupting the supply of 7.62 mm rounds of ammunition to the U.S. Army. The 7.62 mm rounds are manufactured by Alliant Techsystems, Inc., at the Lake City plant under a contract with the U.S. Army to deliver 7.62 mm ammunition to be used by soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Osborn and Langevin were employed as machine repairmen by Alliant Techsystems during the course of the conspiracy. Osborn and Langevin diverted approximately 16,528 pounds of copper bullet cups from the Lake City plant to Fusselman Salvage Company. That amount of copper would otherwise have produced approximately 1.5 million rounds of ammunition, and amounts to more than two weeks' production of 7.62 mm ammunition. Osborn and Langevin shared approximately $45,362 in proceeds from salvaging the copper material, which was valued at $78,838. Osborn and Langevin initially used five gallon buckets to transport the bullet cups from the grounds of Lake City to the salvage company. Later, they used a company forklift to move entire skids of large boxes containing the bullet cups to a pickup truck for transport. Finally, the amounts of material became so large that the conspirators rented a U-Haul trailer to transport the material. This case was prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorney John E. Cowles. It was investigated by the U.S. Army Joint Munitions Command and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. **************** This news release, as well as additional information about the office of the United States Attorney for the Western District of Missouri, is available on-line at www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/index.html Yup and they used a GOV to take it off plant and to the recycler.... I bet there are a few still about... |
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Quoted: so if XM193AF is leftover USAF ammo.Quoted: Dude, I just bought XM193 and the headstamps are pictured on the right... Perhaps so, What packaging is it? 30 round on strippers or AE 100 or 200 round box? or 20 Round Box AE? I believe the 193 AF is left over USAF contract, that product should have the NATO headstamp, the C or CBP product should be the "Alternate" headstamp not saying that there is not some product that makes it to the world with improper headstamp but the US Military can reject product for about ANY reason... Reasons that a commercial product would not be subject to. What do the last two letters designate on XM193 and XM855 variants? XM193C? XM193F? XM855PD? XM193BK? Is there a way to decode this? Or do only you guys know? |
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Quoted: Quoted: How about some photos? Its like better then the best porn.  Sorry––maybe I can find some pics of rounds that have been QC'ed, but no cameras are allowed in the plant. Imagine if some idiot set off a flash on a camera and activated all the anti-explosion and fire safety devices. that whole section of the plant would be shut down for days. then you'd REALLY be seeing an ammo shortage. Speaking of which, what kind of fire suppression system do you have? Do to the size of the facility, I'd guess foam. |
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How about some photos? Its like better then the best porn. Sorry––maybe I can find some pics of rounds that have been QC'ed, but no cameras are allowed in the plant. Imagine if some idiot set off a flash on a camera and activated all the anti-explosion and fire safety devices. that whole section of the plant would be shut down for days. then you'd REALLY be seeing an ammo shortage. Speaking of which, what kind of fire suppression system do you have? Do to the size of the facility, I'd guess foam. Water deluge. |
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Great thread. 2 questions. Can any ATK employee order employee ammo? Not just employees at the ammo plants but say someone that works at one of the other ATK plants doing rocket motors or grenade production? Are there any commercial stores at the plant that sell to the public or does all ammo from the plant have to go through distributor? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about some photos? Its like better then the best porn. Sorry––maybe I can find some pics of rounds that have been QC'ed, but no cameras are allowed in the plant. Imagine if some idiot set off a flash on a camera and activated all the anti-explosion and fire safety devices. that whole section of the plant would be shut down for days. then you'd REALLY be seeing an ammo shortage. Speaking of which, what kind of fire suppression system do you have? Do to the size of the facility, I'd guess foam. Water deluge. I would also guess flame detectors are one reason for no cameras. |
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I will prolly get flamed for low post count but I work at Speer in ATK's Lewiston plant as a centerfire metal parts setup. I setup and run machines that make 380, 9 40 and 45 in speer, cci, blazer brass, and federal. We do have a company store and I am barely allowed to buy what I shoot in a week every thursday. Lewiston plants (speer, cci, southport) are running 24/7. We are expanding RAPIDLY. Adding many new machines here in a couple months and have lots of extra people ready so they are all still properly manned. Shoot any questions...I've only been there since June but my father has been there since 1978. What can you tell me about this ammo? Speer bulk packaged 124 grain Gold Dots for practice only. 9mm 124gr Gold Dot HP Speer CCI 250 round
$84.99 9mm 124gr Gold Dot HP Speer CCI 250 round Gold Dot is the top of the line CCI defense / Law enforcement ammo. This is 250 rounds bulk practice ammo. This is a smokin deal. That works out to $6.80 per 20 rounds It is a limited supply, so it will not last. Tag for answer. |
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Great thread. 2 questions. Can any ATK employee order employee ammo? Not just employees at the ammo plants but say someone that works at one of the other ATK plants doing rocket motors or grenade production? We get employees from other plants in our ammo room and store every now an then, and we are supposed to ship ammo out to other divisions as well. The last guy here was from lake City, and he was limited only bu his yearly $1500 allotment, so he cleaned the ammo room out. (wheras we are limited to, say, 5 308's and 2 45's per week). I would think that any ATK employee could order first quality ammo at employee prices, so you should check with your HR. Not that you'd ever get common calibers, as it is going out to the distributors who are hoarding it..er, the market and all of us ammo whores. Are there any commercial stores at the plant that sell to the public or does all ammo from the plant have to go through distributor? I do not know the answer on this one. |
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How about some photos? Its like better then the best porn. Sorry––maybe I can find some pics of rounds that have been QC'ed, but no cameras are allowed in the plant. Imagine if some idiot set off a flash on a camera and activated all the anti-explosion and fire safety devices. that whole section of the plant would be shut down for days. then you'd REALLY be seeing an ammo shortage. Speaking of which, what kind of fire suppression system do you have? Do to the size of the facility, I'd guess foam. Water deluge. I would also guess flame detectors are one reason for no cameras. Exactly. The manufacture of the ammo itself is nothing new––been done in a similar manner on similar machinery since the 30's. Until we get our new lines installed, and some exceptions. |
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NEWS FLASH! We are getting a new, expanded employee ammo room and company store at federal. Whoo hoo!
Some of you have asked sbout pricing for eemployees; first quality is about half of retail, seconds about half of that. I don't wnat to quote specific pricing, as the pricing lists are jealously guarded––actually bolted to the store tables at Federal; as well as to conserve feelings of the people reading this thread. I will say that if you want these great prices, you must be willing to do long shifts in a munitions factory doing many monotonous jobs––unless you can snag a technical or sales job. 
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Quoted: Quoted: so if XM193AF is leftover USAF ammo.Quoted: Dude, I just bought XM193 and the headstamps are pictured on the right... Perhaps so, What packaging is it? 30 round on strippers or AE 100 or 200 round box? or 20 Round Box AE? I believe the 193 AF is left over USAF contract, that product should have the NATO headstamp, the C or CBP product should be the "Alternate" headstamp not saying that there is not some product that makes it to the world with improper headstamp but the US Military can reject product for about ANY reason... Reasons that a commercial product would not be subject to. What do the last two letters designate on XM193 and XM855 variants? XM193C? XM193F? XM855PD? XM193BK? Is there a way to decode this? Or do only you guys know? iirc the letters designate packaging. stripper clips, bulk pack, 20rd boxes, etc. all the same stuff |
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Quoted: Thank you!Quoted: Quoted: I will prolly get flamed for low post count but I work at Speer in ATK's Lewiston plant as a centerfire metal parts setup. Is it true that CCI/Speer manufactures all .17HMR, even for other brands?We do indeed..I think all 17 ammo and most 22 ammo is built here in L-town We are constanly changing what we are making in metal parts and on the load line in any given week we will be running mostly 9 and 40 and switching a few machines/lines between say 380, 45, 45 small primer, and 45 GAP... |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Who here works at an ammo manufacturer? Let's compare notes!*Wolf, Rem, Win, etc--are you out there (Page 5 of 8)
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