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Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:00:28 PM EST
[#1]
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:01:18 PM EST
[#2]
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Quoted:


Alot, more like the entire 98% of the black population that voted for the GDCIC.

Your property argument is toast. Republicans freed blacks, took them off the plantation and restored their rights. Not until LBJ, and the communists here in America, put their lies upon them, promised free shit and put blacks right back on the plantation...and they went willingly. Alarming.

As much as blacks (or you) deny it, white Conservatives have been their best friend and advocate.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

So why do  American blacks vote for the party that keeps them on the plantation via entitlements?

Are they just too stupid to figure it out?


Face it, there are a lot of people with IQs under 80, who think that having a half dozen kids, having a free apartment, having free food, having free money to buy 'some' of the same shit working people have, without having to work 5 minutes for it, is a pretty good life.

It's really not that hard to fathom.

Chris


Alot, more like the entire 98% of the black population that voted for the GDCIC.

Your property argument is toast. Republicans freed blacks, took them off the plantation and restored their rights. Not until LBJ, and the communists here in America, put their lies upon them, promised free shit and put blacks right back on the plantation...and they went willingly. Alarming.

As much as blacks (or you) deny it, white Conservatives have been their best friend and advocate.


Do you drink heavily at night?

First you thought I was a black guy for some reason, perhaps because I don't necessarily believe that NM was a good guy, solely, or a bad guy.

Now you're telling me that I'm making some 'property' argument that you don't agree with, when I only answered your question as to why blacks keep voting for what I presume you mean 'democrats' (plantation = entitlements?)

My statement is pretty clear and concise.  Many people don't like to work and are quite content to have their Section 8 housing, EBT cards, child allowances and what not.  It's a pretty easy life to be able to sit at home all day and watch the idiot box.

Charles Barkley once stated on a TNT NBA halftime show:  'I don't understand why poor blacks have been voting 'democrat' for the past 50 years...because they're still poor.'

Chris
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:01:25 PM EST
[#3]
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Quoted:
I was not addressing you, save your white pride gibberish
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So being proud of my ancestors achievement makes me racist?

You've already been marked and your assertion puts the racist label squarely on you.

You dislike white people, scoff at their achievments and the 100 of millions of lives saved by their interventions.

Why are you on this forum with all us racists?
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:01:54 PM EST
[#4]
You know I just want to drop this little gem of information here since so many think that it was only the whites putting down the natives and the ANC were freedom fighters.

According to the Human Rights Commission it is estimated that during the Apartheid period some 21,000 people were killed, however both the UN Crimes against Humanity commission and South Africa's own Truth and Reconciliation Commission are in agreement that in those 43 years the South African Security forces killed a total of 518 people. The rest, (some 92%) were accounted for by Africans killing Africans, many by means of the notorious and gruesome practice of necklacing whereby a car tyre full of petrol is placed around a victim's neck and set alight. This particularly cruel form of execution was frequently carried out at the behest of the ANC with the enthusiastic support of Mandela's demonic wife Winnie.
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Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:03:46 PM EST
[#5]
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Quoted:
You know I just want to drop this little gem of information here since so many think that it was only the whites putting down the natives and the ANC were freedom fighters.

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Quoted:
You know I just want to drop this little gem of information here since so many think that it was only the whites putting down the natives and the ANC were freedom fighters.

According to the Human Rights Commission it is estimated that during the Apartheid period some 21,000 people were killed, however both the UN Crimes against Humanity commission and South Africa's own Truth and Reconciliation Commission are in agreement that in those 43 years the South African Security forces killed a total of 518 people. The rest, (some 92%) were accounted for by Africans killing Africans, many by means of the notorious and gruesome practice of necklacing whereby a car tyre full of petrol is placed around a victim's neck and set alight. This particularly cruel form of execution was frequently carried out at the behest of the ANC with the enthusiastic support of Mandela's demonic wife Winnie.


It won't make a dent with these revisionists.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:04:37 PM EST
[#6]
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:04:48 PM EST
[#7]
It used to take a few decades to rewrite history. In this new high tech age they do it in one news cycle.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:04:51 PM EST
[#8]
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Quoted:
funny how no one ever tries to argue that Serbia should have happily remained under communist rule and avoided wars, ethnic slaughters and economic chaos. But  "the railroads ran on time" is fine when it's black men with a jackboot on their neck.
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There really weren't any "good guys" when Yugoslavia collapsed into civil war.  Bringing up the Serbs as bad guys while ignoring the Albanians, or possibly even the Croatians at times, fails to paint a proper picture.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:07:45 PM EST
[#9]
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Quoted:


Do you drink heavily at night?

First you thought I was a black guy for some reason, perhaps because I don't necessarily believe that NM was a good guy, solely, or a bad guy.

Now you're telling me that I'm making some 'property' argument that you don't agree with, when I only answered your question as to why blacks keep voting for what I presume you mean 'democrats' (plantation = entitlements?)

My statement is pretty clear and concise.  Many people don't like to work and are quite content to have their Section 8 housing, EBT cards, child allowances and what not.  It's a pretty easy life to be able to sit at home all day and watch the idiot box.

Charles Barkley once stated on a TNT NBA halftime show:  'I don't understand why poor blacks have been voting 'democrat' for the past 50 years...because they're still poor.'

Chris
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

So why do  American blacks vote for the party that keeps them on the plantation via entitlements?

Are they just too stupid to figure it out?


Face it, there are a lot of people with IQs under 80, who think that having a half dozen kids, having a free apartment, having free food, having free money to buy 'some' of the same shit working people have, without having to work 5 minutes for it, is a pretty good life.

It's really not that hard to fathom.

Chris


Alot, more like the entire 98% of the black population that voted for the GDCIC.

Your property argument is toast. Republicans freed blacks, took them off the plantation and restored their rights. Not until LBJ, and the communists here in America, put their lies upon them, promised free shit and put blacks right back on the plantation...and they went willingly. Alarming.

As much as blacks (or you) deny it, white Conservatives have been their best friend and advocate.


Do you drink heavily at night?

First you thought I was a black guy for some reason, perhaps because I don't necessarily believe that NM was a good guy, solely, or a bad guy.

Now you're telling me that I'm making some 'property' argument that you don't agree with, when I only answered your question as to why blacks keep voting for what I presume you mean 'democrats' (plantation = entitlements?)

My statement is pretty clear and concise.  Many people don't like to work and are quite content to have their Section 8 housing, EBT cards, child allowances and what not.  It's a pretty easy life to be able to sit at home all day and watch the idiot box.

Charles Barkley once stated on a TNT NBA halftime show:  'I don't understand why poor blacks have been voting 'democrat' for the past 50 years...because they're still poor.'

Chris



You're right, I did. Your argue as if some injustice has been to you.

Yes, your property argument. How your able to "understand" so well.
Yes, that's correct, entitlements = plantation.

Your statement is clear and concise, there mostly black.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:08:50 PM EST
[#10]
Not unlike our own secular humanist messiah, if you opposed Mandela, he sicked the IRS on you.

He also was a huge supporter of Abortion and homosexuals - not unlike many here.


Meeting with Nelson Mandela
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:11:36 PM EST
[#11]
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:14:24 PM EST
[#12]
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:14:43 PM EST
[#13]
yea me and 20,000 or so vets, so yea thank us..smiley
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:15:30 PM EST
[#14]
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:15:34 PM EST
[#15]
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Only white people are supposed to get pissed at evil governments stamping on their rights.  
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GD - A magical place where people threaten to become terrorists if perceived injustices are committed, but condemn a man who did exactly what they say they would do in circumstances no where near as bad.


Only white people are supposed to get pissed at evil governments stamping on their rights.  


The folks in the Rockies seemed to have weathered it pretty well from the late 1800's.  Look at what they've made of themselves and how they've conducted themselves since then.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:18:41 PM EST
[#16]
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No...you're missing the point of our exchange.

You don't get to enter 'my land,' subjugate me to your rule, infect me with your own batch of deadly diseases, treat me as a sub-human animal and then pat yourself on the back and telling me that I should be grateful just because you brought me and X Box, some Jerky treats and a few bottles of Penicillin.

The blacks were primitive compared to white Europeans, Middle Easterners and Asians, but that doesn't mean that they weren't content with their own lot in life.  They had been living happily that way for millennia.

It's pretty disingenuous to take the tact that American slavery wasn't so bad because American slave owners treated their slaves better than the Brit, Spanish and French slave owners.

Chris
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So the Africans were abused in SA for not getting all of the fruits of civilization they did not want anyway? How does that make sense?


No...you're missing the point of our exchange.

You don't get to enter 'my land,' subjugate me to your rule, infect me with your own batch of deadly diseases, treat me as a sub-human animal and then pat yourself on the back and telling me that I should be grateful just because you brought me and X Box, some Jerky treats and a few bottles of Penicillin.

The blacks were primitive compared to white Europeans, Middle Easterners and Asians, but that doesn't mean that they weren't content with their own lot in life.  They had been living happily that way for millennia.

It's pretty disingenuous to take the tact that American slavery wasn't so bad because American slave owners treated their slaves better than the Brit, Spanish and French slave owners.

Chris

And you missed my point. People say blacks were abused by being denied freedom and civilization that they did not want anyway and was forced on them.  How can you abuse people by not letting them have full access to what they didn't want. That makes no sense.

I didn't even mention slavery in the US so I don't know why you directed that last bit at me.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:19:51 PM EST
[#17]
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Quoted:


So being proud of my ancestors achievement makes me racist?

You've already been marked and your assertion puts the racist label squarely on you.

You dislike white people, scoff at their achievments and the 100 of millions of lives saved by their interventions.

Why are you on this forum with all us racists?
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Quoted:
I was not addressing you, save your white pride gibberish


So being proud of my ancestors achievement makes me racist?

You've already been marked and your assertion puts the racist label squarely on you.

You dislike white people, scoff at their achievments and the 100 of millions of lives saved by their interventions.

Why are you on this forum with all us racists?


lol

ETA: Hey aimless, how the hell can we respond without breaking the COC?
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:19:57 PM EST
[#18]
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Quoted:
geez GD doesn't like a black man involved in civil rights for blacks?
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That depends whether it's Martin Luther King or Huey Newton.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:21:00 PM EST
[#19]
....
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:26:28 PM EST
[#20]
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Quoted:
What would you have done as a black man in South Africa under apartheid? The options seem to have been "yes massa" or "Sure comrade, the worker's paradise sounds great, can we have some more AKs?"  
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If UN troops invaded Utah would you accept anti tank rockets from Cuba?

If UN troops invaded New York would you murder your neighbor and rape his wife because you wanted to be the resistance leader not him?  That a more apt comparison of what this fake "freedom fighter" did.
Of course not. Would you accept money and arms from commies just like black civil rights leaders? Or do you just shuffle and mutter yes massa.  


Don't paint Mandela as a victim who was forced to take commie weapons to fight for freedom. He was a Marxist and a murder who did not give a shit about freedom--just taking over of the country by his Marxist goons. The average black is less free in his workers paradise and less safe than before. Fake elections and a necktie party if you vote wrong do not make freedom.
What would you have done as a black man in South Africa under apartheid? The options seem to have been "yes massa" or "Sure comrade, the worker's paradise sounds great, can we have some more AKs?"  

I wouldn't have raped, murdered, and tortured but Mandela did, so your attempt at moral equivalency fails there.

Where it fails again is that Mandela was not fighting for freedom for blacks, he was fighting to put them under another master--the even more harsh and cruel (as the results clearly demonstrate) Marxist ANC and he murdered his fellow blacks when they wanted to be truely under a free system, not Marxism. That he just wanted freedom is an outright falsehood.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:31:20 PM EST
[#21]
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Quoted:
You know I just want to drop this little gem of information here since so many think that it was only the whites putting down the natives and the ANC were freedom fighters.

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Quoted:
You know I just want to drop this little gem of information here since so many think that it was only the whites putting down the natives and the ANC were freedom fighters.

According to the Human Rights Commission it is estimated that during the Apartheid period some 21,000 people were killed, however both the UN Crimes against Humanity commission and South Africa's own Truth and Reconciliation Commission are in agreement that in those 43 years the South African Security forces killed a total of 518 people. The rest, (some 92%) were accounted for by Africans killing Africans, many by means of the notorious and gruesome practice of necklacing whereby a car tyre full of petrol is placed around a victim's neck and set alight. This particularly cruel form of execution was frequently carried out at the behest of the ANC with the enthusiastic support of Mandela's demonic wife Winnie.


Do you have a cite for his?
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:33:01 PM EST
[#22]
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Quoted:


That's one way to avoid hard answers.
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You know what cracks me up about Johnny bravo and the other GDers who will rail on about how the white man brought modern civilization to Africa, and without us (whites) Africans would still be shitting in huts?

The ancient Romans used to say the same shit about everyone north of the Alps.

And then the Roman Empire and all its modern civilization collapsed, white European tribes sacked Rome a few times and took over.  This little golden age saw white Europeans shitting in huts for a solid 500 years.  So you know what...I think I'm going to cut black South Africans some slack, because they've only been running the show for a little more than 20 years.  By the white European clock, they still have a good 480 years to go before we judge.


History? Wolf. I guess your lieing to us when you don't mention mugabe, right?

How many white people have been killed since 1994 by blacks in SA?

What was the number of farms in SA in 1994 and what is it now?

Where in history did the labor of 200,000 black people feed 150,000,000 white people?



Wooosh.  Right over your head.


That's one way to avoid hard answers.


No, more like your reply had absolutely fuck-all to do with my post.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:33:40 PM EST
[#23]
I think the main problem with Mandela was that things got out of control.

SA was bad, and his fight for racial equality was justified.

The events that caused Mandela and the ANC to start being violent remind me a lot of the Boston Massacre and the Battle of Lexington and Concord that quickly lead to the US revolution.

The problem was that the people following (chronologically) Mandela were way "over zealous" in targeting non-combatants. Most of the major atrocities Umkhonto we Sizwe (founded by Mandela) is known for happened while Mandela was in jail.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:34:44 PM EST
[#24]
Mandela's govt instituted massive gun control , levied massive taxes, seized businesses, froze oversea assets,  refused to let people travel freely abroad and if you tried to emigrate they took everything you owned to include bank accounts.   They also refused to allow family  members to follow folks that DID manage to emigrate.

That's where some good friends of ours are now.  They fled SA 11 years ago with a couple of suitcases.  Lost a pediatric practice, their home and all their savings.  Had to go to Belgium, then to Canada, THEN emigrate to the US thanks to immigration quotas.  The South African Govt is holding their parents and the children of a sister hostage.  Will not grant visas. Sister was murdered in  a Johannesburg Emergency room. Caught in an crossfire between thugs while at work.

They cannot go back to visit either, The SA govt will seize their passports once they get in country.

Think about that for a second.  They gave up EVERYTHING to get the hell out of there.  They are also Asain, not white. So save your "they must be white supremacists" drivel.

Yep, a real freedom fighter and a shining example to all,  that Mandela.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:36:25 PM EST
[#25]
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Nobody really occupied South Africa before the Dutch. It was predominatly a wasteland
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So the Africans were abused in SA for not getting all of the fruits of civilization they did not want anyway? How does that make sense?


No...you're missing the point of our exchange.

You don't get to enter 'my land,' subjugate me to your rule, infect me with your own batch of deadly diseases, treat me as a sub-human animal and then pat yourself on the back and telling me that I should be grateful just because you brought me and X Box, some Jerky treats and a few bottles of Penicillin.

The blacks were primitive compared to white Europeans, Middle Easterners and Asians, but that doesn't mean that they weren't content with their own lot in life.  They had been living happily that way for millennia.

It's pretty disingenuous to take the tact that American slavery wasn't so bad because American slave owners treated their slaves better than the Brit, Spanish and French slave owners.

Chris


Nobody really occupied South Africa before the Dutch. It was predominatly a wasteland


What you really mean is that there were no whites occupying South Africa before the Dutch 'replenishment colony' went into being for the Dutch East India Trading Company in 1652.  Somewhat similar to America.

There were plenty of black people who migrated from sub-Saharan Africa, into the Southern regions, before any whites got there.

"Around 2,500 years ago Bantu peoples started migrating across sub-Saharan Africa from the Niger River Delta. The San People of Southern Africa and the Bantu-speakers didn't have any method of writing, so researchers know little of this period outside of archaeological artefacts

The Bantu-speakers had started to make their way south and eastwards in about 1000 BC, reaching the present-day KwaZulu-Natal Province by 500 CE. The Bantu-speakers had an advanced Iron Age culture, keeping domestic animals and also practising agriculture, farming sorghum and other crops. They lived in small settled villages. The Bantu-speakers arrived in South Africa in small waves rather than in one cohesive migration. Some groups, the ancestors of today's Nguni peoples (the Zulu, Xhosa, Swazi, and Ndebele), preferred to live near the coast. Others, now known as the Sotho–Tswana peoples (Tswana, Pedi, and Basotho), settled in the Highveld, while today's Venda, Lemba, and Shangaan-Tsonga peoples made their homes in the north-eastern areas of South Africa."

Ho ho ho...merry Christmas

Anyhow, the history of South African peoples isn't what the OP was asking about.

Let's try and stay on point about whether Nelson Mandela is a tool, a hero, or neither.

Chris
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:37:22 PM EST
[#26]
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Quoted:


Do you have a cite for his?
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Quoted:
You know I just want to drop this little gem of information here since so many think that it was only the whites putting down the natives and the ANC were freedom fighters.

According to the Human Rights Commission it is estimated that during the Apartheid period some 21,000 people were killed, however both the UN Crimes against Humanity commission and South Africa's own Truth and Reconciliation Commission are in agreement that in those 43 years the South African Security forces killed a total of 518 people. The rest, (some 92%) were accounted for by Africans killing Africans, many by means of the notorious and gruesome practice of necklacing whereby a car tyre full of petrol is placed around a victim's neck and set alight. This particularly cruel form of execution was frequently carried out at the behest of the ANC with the enthusiastic support of Mandela's demonic wife Winnie.


Do you have a cite for his?


http://www.jmm.org.au/articles/321.htm
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:39:24 PM EST
[#27]
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Quoted:


So being proud of my ancestors achievement makes me racist?

You've already been marked and your assertion puts the racist label squarely on you.

You dislike white people, scoff at their achievments and the 100 of millions of lives saved by their interventions.

Why are you on this forum with all us racists?
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Quoted:
I was not addressing you, save your white pride gibberish


So being proud of my ancestors achievement makes me racist?

You've already been marked and your assertion puts the racist label squarely on you.

You dislike white people, scoff at their achievments and the 100 of millions of lives saved by their interventions.

Why are you on this forum with all us racists?


You do know that white people are not the sole innovators in the world, and many of our wonderful achievements are built on the foundation of innovations by blacks, arabs, chinese, etc etc.

In fact, had it not been for contact with the Muslim world during the Crusades, white europeans would have been shitting in huts for a lot longer than they did.

ETA: Also Johnny Bravo, let's not forget one of those white innovations was Marxism
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:41:16 PM EST
[#28]
He was a communist.  He had death squads that liked to put tires around peoples necks and set them on fire.  He was a POS that replaced a POS and the liberals love him.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:55:20 PM EST
[#29]
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Don't know about all of that, but, gee, for some reason prior to Mandela, South Africa wasn't one of the murder capitals of the world, and you could walk around without having to worry about a tire tossed over your head and set afire....also it was able to feed itself, because people actually had farms and WORKED them...

And what about Rhodesia?
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Mandela was roasting people that way long before he came to power.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:56:27 PM EST
[#30]
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Probably.  And I won't be surprised, given what has happened since the transition.  But it doesn't change the fact that there are a shitload of hypocrites here condemning Mandela for using targeted guerrilla terror tactics against the kind of tyranny that they would go fucking apeshit against if it was turned on them.

Rhodesia was a different nation with a different can of worms.  They did NOT deserve Mugabe or the ZANU-PF.  The SA Apartheid government had quite a slew of unforgivable sins to answer for, comparatively.
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How do you explain the wholesale murdering of black people that mandela is responsible for? He is responsible for murdering a hell of a lot more blacks is south africa than your so called "death squads".
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 6:56:56 PM EST
[#31]
Dead commie is best commie
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:07:52 PM EST
[#32]
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Quoted:


How do you explain the wholesale murdering of black people that mandela is responsible for? He is responsible for murdering a hell of a lot more blacks is south africa than your so called "death squads".
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Probably.  And I won't be surprised, given what has happened since the transition.  But it doesn't change the fact that there are a shitload of hypocrites here condemning Mandela for using targeted guerrilla terror tactics against the kind of tyranny that they would go fucking apeshit against if it was turned on them.

Rhodesia was a different nation with a different can of worms.  They did NOT deserve Mugabe or the ZANU-PF.  The SA Apartheid government had quite a slew of unforgivable sins to answer for, comparatively.


How do you explain the wholesale murdering of black people that mandela is responsible for? He is responsible for murdering a hell of a lot more blacks is south africa than your so called "death squads".

Collaborators to an evil machine. Only their death's could clear the path to true freedom.

The same as the Bolshevics, the the Nazi's during the Weimar Republic, and so on and so forth to every socialist takeover.

And just like John Brown pulling settlers out of their tents and cabins to murder them in front of their famines.

Only through purging the impure can glory and justice be attained.

At the end of the day he was a thug. A thug with high ideas, but still a thug.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:09:37 PM EST
[#33]
Meh. South Africa AND Mandela aren't even a blip on my radar.

Zero fucks given.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:12:36 PM EST
[#34]
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Quoted:The events that caused Mandela and the ANC to start being violent remind me a lot of the Boston Massacre and the Battle of Lexington and Concord that quickly lead to the US revolution.
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"The events that caused Mandela and the ANC to start being violent" were the decisions of the Central Committee in the good ol' CCCP - their masters.

If you were a black opponent of apartheid, but weren't a Commie, and/or weren't violent you would end up with a burning 4-ply Firestone around your neck.

Courtesy of Mandela.

He wasn't forced to violence - violence suited the ends of his masters.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:12:54 PM EST
[#35]
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Quoted:


What you really mean is that there were no whites occupying South Africa before the Dutch 'replenishment colony' went in being for the Dutch East India Trading Company in 1652.  Somewhat similar to America.

There were plenty of black people who migrated from sub-Saharan Africa, into the Southern regions, before any whites got there.

"Around 2,500 years ago Bantu peoples started migrating across sub-Saharan Africa from the Niger River Delta. The San People of Southern Africa and the Bantu-speakers didn't have any method of writing, so researchers know little of this period outside of archaeological artefacts

The Bantu-speakers had started to make their way south and eastwards in about 1000 BC, reaching the present-day KwaZulu-Natal Province by 500 CE. The Bantu-speakers had an advanced Iron Age culture, keeping domestic animals and also practising agriculture, farming sorghum and other crops. They lived in small settled villages. The Bantu-speakers arrived in South Africa in small waves rather than in one cohesive migration. Some groups, the ancestors of today's Nguni peoples (the Zulu, Xhosa, Swazi, and Ndebele), preferred to live near the coast. Others, now known as the Sotho–Tswana peoples (Tswana, Pedi, and Basotho), settled in the Highveld, while today's Venda, Lemba, and Shangaan-Tsonga peoples made their homes in the north-eastern areas of South Africa."

Ho ho ho...merry Christmas

Anyhow, the history of South African peoples isn't what the OP was asking about.

Let's try and stay on point about whether Nelson Mandela is a tool, a hero, or neither.

Chris
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So the Africans were abused in SA for not getting all of the fruits of civilization they did not want anyway? How does that make sense?


No...you're missing the point of our exchange.

You don't get to enter 'my land,' subjugate me to your rule, infect me with your own batch of deadly diseases, treat me as a sub-human animal and then pat yourself on the back and telling me that I should be grateful just because you brought me and X Box, some Jerky treats and a few bottles of Penicillin.

The blacks were primitive compared to white Europeans, Middle Easterners and Asians, but that doesn't mean that they weren't content with their own lot in life.  They had been living happily that way for millennia.

It's pretty disingenuous to take the tact that American slavery wasn't so bad because American slave owners treated their slaves better than the Brit, Spanish and French slave owners.

Chris


Nobody really occupied South Africa before the Dutch. It was predominatly a wasteland


What you really mean is that there were no whites occupying South Africa before the Dutch 'replenishment colony' went in being for the Dutch East India Trading Company in 1652.  Somewhat similar to America.

There were plenty of black people who migrated from sub-Saharan Africa, into the Southern regions, before any whites got there.

"Around 2,500 years ago Bantu peoples started migrating across sub-Saharan Africa from the Niger River Delta. The San People of Southern Africa and the Bantu-speakers didn't have any method of writing, so researchers know little of this period outside of archaeological artefacts

The Bantu-speakers had started to make their way south and eastwards in about 1000 BC, reaching the present-day KwaZulu-Natal Province by 500 CE. The Bantu-speakers had an advanced Iron Age culture, keeping domestic animals and also practising agriculture, farming sorghum and other crops. They lived in small settled villages. The Bantu-speakers arrived in South Africa in small waves rather than in one cohesive migration. Some groups, the ancestors of today's Nguni peoples (the Zulu, Xhosa, Swazi, and Ndebele), preferred to live near the coast. Others, now known as the Sotho–Tswana peoples (Tswana, Pedi, and Basotho), settled in the Highveld, while today's Venda, Lemba, and Shangaan-Tsonga peoples made their homes in the north-eastern areas of South Africa."

Ho ho ho...merry Christmas

Anyhow, the history of South African peoples isn't what the OP was asking about.

Let's try and stay on point about whether Nelson Mandela is a tool, a hero, or neither.

Chris


You were the one calling me for having a Nazi avatar. Forget about that?
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:16:51 PM EST
[#36]
I find the ideas of apartheid/institutional racism and oppression just as disgusting as the next guy, but Nelson and Winnie supported people who murdered their own. Bombing campaigns against the government, my ass. As one poster pointed out, much of the violence perpetrated by his followers happened while he was imprisoned, and he did nothing to stop it... yet he somehow got a fuckin' Nobel Peace Prize.

On the bright side, at least he didn't get it for nothing, but he was still a piece of shit, regardless of skin color or political bent.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:24:52 PM EST
[#37]
I'll say it again because my post with links got lost pages back.

That fucker nearly killed me and my wife, I missed being blown up by minutes.

I hope his stinking corpse is being desecrated as we speak.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:32:48 PM EST
[#38]
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I'll say it again because my post with links got lost pages back.

That fucker nearly killed me and my wife, I missed being blown up by minutes.

I hope his stinking corpse is being desecrated as we speak.
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Nelson Mandela nearly killed you and your wife with a bomb?
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:34:13 PM EST
[#39]
I gonna go out a limb here and say good riddance to the Communist piece of shit, no more walking on this earth. May the worms, maggots, and other insects eat your rotting carcass.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:39:15 PM EST
[#40]
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And you missed my point. People say blacks were abused by being denied freedom and civilization that they did not want anyway and was forced on them.  How can you abuse people by not letting them have full access to what they didn't want. That makes no sense.

I didn't even mention slavery in the US so I don't know why you directed that last bit at me.
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What are you mumbling about?

Blacks wanted freedom and their version of civilization, are you arguing the contrary?  In 1948 election, when the National (white people party) Party came into being, beginning apartheid, no blacks got to vote, even though they made up the majority.

Also, who are you alluding to, that is saying that the 'African blacks didn't want their freedom, or to continue on with their way of life and what would they possibly have to complain about?'

Because one tribe conquered another tribe, somewhere in South Africa, doesn't mean that because the Apaches conquered the the Hopi (made up players) at one point in Indian history, all Native Americans suddenly wanted to give up their freedoms and way of life to the white man, when he sailed ashore in North America.

Is that's the angle you're taking?

Go back and read the post that I initially replied to and maybe my comments will make more sense to you.

I don't think I'm advocating the position that you think I am.

To wit: you don't get to enslave and abuse a people, then give them some minor benefits and comforts, like a little food, clothing, shelter, or a slum/ghetto to live in and then get to justify your actions as being morally correct, just by saying: 'hey, it's not so bad, we gave them some food, clothing and shelter, so why are they being ingrates?'

Chris
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:41:22 PM EST
[#41]
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Nelson Mandela nearly killed you and your wife with a bomb?
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I'll say it again because my post with links got lost pages back.

That fucker nearly killed me and my wife, I missed being blown up by minutes.

I hope his stinking corpse is being desecrated as we speak.


Nelson Mandela nearly killed you and your wife with a bomb?


holyshit? how? He was in prison forever.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:41:34 PM EST
[#42]
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I'll say it again because my post with links got lost pages back.

That fucker nearly killed me and my wife, I missed being blown up by minutes.

I hope his stinking corpse is being desecrated as we speak.
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I would love a link. What page?
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:44:34 PM EST
[#43]
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You were the one calling me for having a Nazi avatar. Forget about that?
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No, I stated that you have a Nazi helmet in your avatar.  And I didn't even mention the Iron Cross in the drawing.

I Googled it and there's a picture of your helmet without the Frankenstein knobs on the sides and it's dated 1942.

So I'll stand by my comment, even though I might be technically off on a minor point.

And in light I of what you posted and what I commented about, it is textbook 'irony.'

Chris
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:50:49 PM EST
[#44]
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This is GD's rank hypocrisy getting to me.
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what? there is no hypocrisy whatsoever. my tribe is always right. that simple.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:53:08 PM EST
[#45]


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Of course not. Would you accept money and arms from commies just like black civil rights leaders? Or do you just shuffle and mutter yes massa.
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If UN troops invaded Utah would you accept anti tank rockets from Cuba?



If UN troops invaded New York would you murder your neighbor and rape his wife because you wanted to be the resistance leader not him? That a more apt comparison of what this fake "freedom fighter" did.
Of course not. Would you accept money and arms from commies just like black civil rights leaders? Or do you just shuffle and mutter yes massa.




We have no room to talk.  We accepted help from the French.



Link Posted: 12/5/2013 7:58:34 PM EST
[#46]
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Spin is spin
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Because he refused to take their shit


This.

If you guys woke up in tomorrow to find apartheid in USA and it was white people who were treated as sub-human, you can be dam sure you would resist / terrorize / call it what you want !!!


I sure as fuck woudn't murder civilians like Mandela did.

Apartheid was despicable, but Mandela was no saint. He was a scumsucking, Communist murderer.


Spin is spin


He's spinnin' his murdering commie ass straight to hell right now.
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 8:02:02 PM EST
[#47]

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You seriously not going to try to school a guy who lived it with revisionist bulkshit and the moral equivalency game are you?
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Kind of like a Jew in Berlin during the Third Reich, huh?



"Well, the streets are clean and the trains run on time and I don't have to be worried about being stabbed randomly by a mugger.  I'll just nip on home for a nice sabbath, and hope the fucking state secret police don't show up in the dead of night and shoot or 'disappear' everyone.  So nice to feel safe."







This is what pisses me off, as a South African the rest of the World compares apartheid SA to the Nazis, you make it seem as if the cops drove around all night and broke into blacks homes and killed the lot of them.



The truth is, yes the police went around and took out some blacks a lot of them, most if not all of these targets were ANC (A recognized terrorist group) and ANC sympathizers, there were very few random knock and shoots, what do you think, we had millions of cops with out anything else to do? Their targets were terrorists, the World media made it seem it was all of the black population but they were after the terrs.



Was apartheid wrong? Yes it was, was it the only way to keep savage behavior off the streets and out of communities (The same behavior that we see there now) yes it was at that time, as can be seen by the lawlessness rampant there now, mostly black on black and black on white crimes. Apartheid was more of a way to control the movements of the people, the Zulus wanted to wipe the Xosa off the planet, we are talking millions of people wanting to wage tribal warfare on each other through out the country, this would lead to carnage as well as disrupt the economy, since most laborers were black (As is the case today, so don't say it was because they were forced to be laborers because they were black) and scare the rest of the country not caught in the cross fire away.



Before I left SA of all the black friends I had,there parents would often tell my friends and I that they felt safer under apartheid, they know where they stood, the rules and the lines were clear, they didn't like it, but they were relatively safe, today, anyone and everyone is a target especially if you are a member of a tribe which is not well liked by the other tribes, on top of the tribal violence, there is the normal violent crime which exists in any country, so they get a double whammy now.



Like I said Apartheid was not perfect, it served it purpose at keeping the peace though, that is evident if you take a look at the place today, but it was a system which had to go as it was unfair as much as it was racist, however, you cannot condone what Mandela and his elk did, I don;t care what you are fighting for, bombing school buses, rape and torture of people who have nothing to do with your fight other than they come from a different tribe or are white like the government of time is not the behavior of the good guys.



Mandela used to show up on TV just like old boss Osama, there would be a bombing, a school bus would get nailed, a busy shopping center would get blown up, that night, or a night or two later, there's Mandel on TV news in a recorded tape just like Osama, telling us all that the white rulers are to blame for his  (Manuela's) actions and that more will follow if the whites don't give up. But to the World he is a hero, I wonder if Osama will be regarded as a hero in years to come because he took his fight for freedom of US influence right to the USA and fought long and hard for his freedom.

Do you know who John Brown was?

 


You seriously not going to try to school a guy who lived it with revisionist bulkshit and the moral equivalency game are you?
My point is that John Brown was a murderer, who was known to indiscriminately kill even free blacks, trying to start a war against the United States, yet Union soldiers sang his praises as a marching tune.



 
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 8:06:53 PM EST
[#48]

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So being proud of my ancestors achievement makes me racist?



You've already been marked and your assertion puts the racist label squarely on you.



You dislike white people, scoff at their achievments and the 100 of millions of lives saved by their interventions.



Why are you on this forum with all us racists?
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I was not addressing you, save your white pride gibberish




So being proud of my ancestors achievement makes me racist?



You've already been marked and your assertion puts the racist label squarely on you.



You dislike white people, scoff at their achievments and the 100 of millions of lives saved by their interventions.



Why are you on this forum with all us racists?


 
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 8:08:16 PM EST
[#49]


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Yes.
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Ask the people who live there now if the place is "fixed."



Do you think that absolves Apartheid-era South Africa?






Yes.





 

Then you are as bad as the fucking raping, beheading, savages that have taken over SA, just in your own fucking way. You take one evil over another evil as long as you stay warm at night. Pretty fucking pathetic. In fact most of the people in the thread are fucking pathetic. Why don't we just face the facts and realize if SA had abolished the Apartheid system 20 or 30 years before, the country would have integrated, on their own god damn terms and this bullshit wouldn't have happened. All those innocent civilians in SA are just about as bad as the innocent civilians of the fucking Nazi regime. Yah okay, there were no death camps, but plenty of Black South Africans died at their hands, for no other reason then being black. Any you know what, none of the happy people living in their homes gave a shit.







I mean really, what the fuck did they think would happen? What do you think keeping people uneducated, poor, and downtrodden is going to do? Did they think that Blacks would just happily keep quite? Idiots the lot of them, and I do not have sympathy for anyone but the innocent children who were killed. They never knew better. Savages breed savages, and the Apartheid government brought what is happening in SA now upon the country.







The ANC and Mandela were savages too. And Mrs. Mandela deserves to be given a taste of her own medicine, but I tell you what GD. If you were in Apartheid all of you would have either done what the ANC did, maybe some of you would be less terroristic but I doubt that, or you all would have coward in fear, watching TV in your undies and blabbing away on the internet about how your reality TV has disappeared because the evil revolutionaries have tried to change things. The majority of you assholes have never known any sort of hardship, and you bitch and moan when things are handed to you on a silver platter. Even if every freedom you had was taken away, I bet 90% of you complainers wouldn't do shit, you wouldn't lift your magpul fucked safe queens out. You would just complain and bitch some more, fuck you would probably complain about the people trying to get your freedom back.











 
Link Posted: 12/5/2013 8:08:22 PM EST
[#50]


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I was not addressing you, save your white pride gibberish




So being proud of my ancestors achievement makes me racist?



You've already been marked and your assertion puts the racist label squarely on you.



You dislike white people, scoff at their achievments and the 100 of millions of lives saved by their interventions.



Why are you on this forum with all us racists?




Aimless is black and white.
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