Yeah, let's see how many ARFcommers would just sit back and take it, if BHO came out and by decree stated that since he's such a swell guy and of mixed race, nobody going forward can marry somebody of the same race and by the way, you can only live where the government tells you to live.

"The origins of apartheid - apartness - went right back to the very beginnings of European rule in Southern Africa, but it was only with the election of the first National Party government in 1948, in a white-only ballot, that racial segregation was thoroughly codified in law.

In legal terms, apartheid had three main pillars:

The Race Classification Act, which classified every citizen suspected of not being European according to race.

The Mixed Marriages Act, which prohibited marriage between people of different races.

The Group Areas Act, which forced people of certain races into living in designated areas.

In the early 1950s Mr Mandela toured South Africa, organising campaigns of mass civil disobedience.

Charged under the Suppression of Communism Act in 1952, Mr Mandela received a suspended prison sentence and was later banned from public meetings and confined to Johannesburg for six months."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-10524587

Whether the man allowed S.A. to crumble into ruins, I can't argue with his willingness to fight and throw off the yoke of his white 'slave' masters from Europe.

Sounds like a lot of Nazi shit to me?

Chris

You don't specifically target men, women, and children. Of course we'd fight back, and Mandela and the blacks in SA had every right to fight back. The problem was that they targeted innocents instead of military and political targets.

Live free in a shit hole or as a slave in a first world nation?  

His political affiliation doesn't actually matter to me, nor what happened to country after it overthrow its oppressive regime.  Not for the purposes of figuring out if Mandela was a bad guy.  If the ends don't justify the means, then you can't judge the means by the ends either.  You can judge him on what he did, and it'd be a damn good idea to include the why, which doesn't include Communism, and find reasons to condemn him.  Which is what you've largely done, and that's perfectly fine.   But to say that things turned out badly afterward and that makes him a bad person isn't wise.  After all, the French Revolution turned out to be a nightmare.  Do you judge the Revolution itself based on what came after?

I don't understand the analogy proposed.



If a majority group want to harm me or my family for no reason other than my skin color, I'm going to start killing them.

Thats my beef with his Jihadi style of Combat

I get it..Military, Government targets. I can say i did a lot of stuff overseas but never once threw out my ethics or my honor

And then you get into the question of who is actually oppressing you.  Was it only the government, or the entire elite that was helping hold you down.  Total War is a popular concept I've seen thrown around, and one I oppose.  It fits just as well in an internal struggle as an external one.  

I was unaware that Vietnam vets weren't allowed to vote, were subject to arrest for being in some towns after sunset, had to send their kids to shitty schools, had to give up their seats on public transportation whenever somebody else demanded it and couldn't eat in the same restaurants as other people.



I had no idea, and for that I am ashamed.



 

All I know is, there must not be ANYTHING else more important today for the MSM cause that is ALL they are fuckin talking about

Have you ever seen a thread about Martin Luther King or the civil rights movement here?



 

This.

If you guys woke up in tomorrow to find apartheid in USA and it was white people who were treated as sub-human, you can be dam sure you would resist / terrorize / call it what you want !!!

He probably would've been shot...



 

I want to believe that about myself.  But if I've been forced from my home, watched my wife raped repeatedly, children taken away,  and then expected to work as a field animal for the very people who perpetrated the crimes...well, I can't say that I'd have much sympathy for my oppressors or their families.

Interesting that you should mention the French Revolution.  I'm personally not as impressed with it as I am with the American Revolution.  The result of a revolution speaks a lot about those who lead it.  The French Revolution, at least in the short term, replaced a bad situation with a nightmare for a time.  It finally got sorted out but there was a lot of ugliness involved.

Consider recent events in Egypt.  They had a bad leader who oppressed some of the people, but replaced him with the Muslim Brotherhood which was even worse.  Now they're having to undo much of the revolution.

He'd be lucky if that was the worst.

1960s US was not comparable to 1950s south Africa.  

No problem...when your the indigenous population, the Africans, are sitting around playing with their own shit and not doing anything with the land and dying from malnutrition....

....then the Africans, and detractors in this thread, should be thanking the "white man" for paying a visit and bringing his gifts.

Those are, apart from civilization in and of itself:

-Medicine
-Running water
-Food for the entire continent.

Those three things alone absolve the SA apartheid.

And on that...when the indigs then say "give me your civilization, we want our land back" and then back that up with violence,
it's easy to see why the white SA said "I don't think so".....

...and took the necessary measures against indigenous communist insurgents.

Blacks, for some reason, loathe white rule anywhere, no matter how just or injust it is.

funny, the news is on right now and they are failing to mention any of these short comings of mandela.

it would appear to scott pelly that he is some sort of a saint.



no fucks available for this piece of shit.

Mandel got married, and then spent ~30 years in prison.  So he gets out, and then divorces his wife.  What's not to love about the guy?  

I sure as fuck woudn't murder civilians like Mandela did.

Apartheid was despicable, but Mandela was no saint. He was a scumsucking, Communist murderer.

It was never about "freedom fighting" It was about communist power and a govt takeover, heavily financed by OTHER communist countries.  

"Freedom fighters"   don't slaughter their own people in wholesale lots, exterminate entire tribes and take their land, or even kill non-combatants of their enemies.

Not going through 5 pages to see if that has been posted yet..

I had an ulterior motive for using the French Revolution.  

It took decades before France emerged from the aftermath of the Revolution.  Almost a century, if you include the frequent revolutions and empires that popped up as France tried to find something stable to replace the monarchy with.  It could be too early to tell what the real effects of Mandela's actions are.  It's definitely too early to tell how the Egyptian revolt will turn out.

tag

Nelson Mandela wrote a book.  How to Be a Good Communist.

That good enough for you, or is it hypocritical?

Wow.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that the Africans were pretty content in keeping things the way they were 'pre-colonization,' whether they were 'primatives,' or not?  Same with the Native Americans in America.  That is to say they weren't overtly asking for anybody's help.

I mean, they had been pretty much been living the same way and flourishing, for what...10,000+ years?

Chris

This is what pisses me off, as a South African the rest of the World compares apartheid SA to the Nazis, you make it seem as if the cops drove around all night and broke into blacks homes and killed the lot of them.

The truth is, yes the police went around and took out some blacks a lot of them, most if not all of these targets were ANC (A recognized terrorist group) and ANC sympathizers, there were very few random knock and shoots, what do you think, we had millions of cops with out anything else to do? Their targets were terrorists, the World media made it seem it was all of the black population but they were after the terrs.

Was apartheid wrong? Yes it was, was it the only way to keep savage behavior off the streets and out of communities (The same behavior that we see there now) yes it was at that time, as can be seen by the lawlessness rampant there now, mostly black on black and black on white crimes. Apartheid was more of a way to control the movements of the people, the Zulus wanted to wipe the Xosa off the planet, we are talking millions of people wanting to wage tribal warfare on each other through out the country, this would lead to carnage as well as disrupt the economy, since most laborers were black (As is the case today, so don't say it was because they were forced to be laborers because they were black) and scare the rest of the country not caught in the cross fire away.

Before I left SA of all the black friends I had,their parents would often tell my friends and I that they felt safer under apartheid, they know where they stood, the rules and the lines were clear, they didn't like it, but they were relatively safe, today, anyone and everyone is a target especially if you are a member of a tribe which is not well liked by the other tribes, on top of the tribal violence, there is the normal violent crime which exists in any country, so they get a double whammy now.

Like I said Apartheid was not perfect, it served it purpose at keeping the peace though, that is evident if you take a look at the place today, but it was a system which had to go as it was unfair as much as it was racist, however, you cannot condone what Mandela and his elk did, I don;t care what you are fighting for, bombing school buses, rape and torture of people who have nothing to do with your fight other than they come from a different tribe or are white like the government of time is not the behavior of the good guys.

Mandela used to show up on TV just like old boss Osama, there would be a bombing, a school bus would get nailed, a busy shopping center would get blown up, that night, or a night or two later, there's Mandel on TV news in a recorded tape just like Osama, telling us all that the white rulers are to blame for his  (Manuela's) actions and that more will follow if the whites don't give up. But to the World he is a hero, I wonder if Osama will be regarded as a hero in years to come because he took his fight for freedom of US influence right to the USA and fought long and hard for his freedom.

Pretty strong evidence.

You are wrong...they were not flourishing.

Bring me back the stat for starvation in Africa current 2013?

The problem there is that most if not all the stuff he did has been wiped of the internet, I have searched, I can't find much, but I was there, I saw it with my own eyes, the blown up schools, the shredded remains of a bus with what was left of the children on it destroyed by a mine and not just once, many times and every time where would be a black guy on the TV news calming it was the work of the ANC and that the fight would go on.

And when they actually enacted majority rule and excluded the parties which were involved in insurrection and terrorism (the main communist/socialist parties) on account of what they were, the British still told the Rhodesians to fuck off, and then when the communists were allowed to participate, voter fraud and intimidation on a large scale was ignored by the British.  Rhodesia really got boned, worse than South Africa so far.

Do you know who John Brown was?





 

A friend of mine called me, his Father in Law worked for the SA Fed Government (intelligence) and he said his father is standing in front of the TV shaking his head to all the Good shit they are saying about Mandella

Said the guy was a ripeass terrorist

Truth.

Read a book for a change people.

Excellent post! I suggest any of you asshats that are saying you would've fought with the dead commie to read this post.

Yes, but I would not go killing women and children and men who were not directly involved to get my point across.

As millions of African immigrants to South Africa did.  It wasn't a magnet to the rest of Africa for no good reason.

And while petty apartheid could not be justified, I don't think grand apartheid could be so easily condemned on moral grounds.  You basically have a Western civilization and a larger non-civilized people living in one country; either you have to preserve minority rule or you have to separate them if maintenance of civilization in at least some part of the country is the goal.

Even if SA had eliminated apartheid, though, it would still have been condemned by much of the world and Marxist insurgencies would have continued.

Compared to most of decolonized Africa, it probably could be considered such.  Where some freedom was maintained elsewhere, a number of countries and the U.N. did their best to crush it, largely successfully.

 

Im still waiting f9r the Shitstain In Chief to say how sorry he is for the murder of Chris Kyle!

 

Of course it would have.

The whites in SA should have picked up their civilization, retreated to Southwest Africa on the coast,  and built a wall...cross this line and it's nuke time.

Lets ask this question...if someone waved a magic wand, and you were king of Detroit, how would you fix it? Hugs and rousing chorus' of kumbay-ya?

Or do you think you might have to go in and break a few eggs to fix that omlette?

I would have to do some in depth research on Apartheid, which admittedly I don't know a whole lot about...but maybe they were doing what they needed to do to keep order there?

It seems to me once Apartheid was dismantled, the country went to shit fast....

In any case, whether you believe Apartheid was right or wrong, one has to admit that SA went from a prosperous, comfortable, safe first world country very fast to a murder, savage ridden third world hell hole pretty quick, and the one thing that fundamentally changed was Apartheid.

Although I think Rhodesia is a much better example, while there was minority rule there, from what I read, it was very not like the SA system. Again, the commies saw a way to take it over, the free world turned their back, and that country too turned into a shithole. I also am amused at the fact that when the white owned farms were taken, and given to the natives, they couldn't understand why food didn't magically appear, and ended up creating starvation in a country that was once pretty self sufficient....

Afrikaans = language, Afrikaner = Descendant of Boers.

Start here, good book: Into the Cannibal's Pot.

http://www.amazon.com/Into-Cannibals-Pot-Lessons-Post-Apartheid/dp/0984907017

Why was he a bad guy? Because he was a communist. If you need a further explanation , then there is no hope for you.

Yes, the British were SO GOOD to Africa.

And India.

And China.

And...

I was wondering why the liberal media was going crazy, now it all makes sense. I didn't know much about Mandela.


Edit:
Looks like DU is in mourning.

Didn't know the man personally, but...

Probably not as bad the haters thought him to be

and not as good as those who worship him thought he was.

Just my guess.

I have mixed feelings about Mandela.

1) He was in reality a murderer and a member of the South African Communist Party.



2) His economic policies are Maoist and stupid. He destroyed South Africa's future by the destruction of the economy and allowing corruption/cronyism.

The current president of South Africa Jacob Zuma, singing 'kill the Boar' or white farmer.  This is the reality on the ground there. Ignorance and racism on the part of the leadership.

If it wasn't Mandela then it would have been someone else.

When you look at all the internal and external forces during that period of time it was bound to happen.

I don't think he's a good guy, in fact I think he's no different than a number of African leaders but he's not the antichrist as ARF GD would like you to believe.