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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:02:33 PM EDT
[#1]
I too am interested in the Desert Tech bullpup, especially the SBR (the MDR-C) version. And the Crye Six12.
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Ask HK how the move away from metallic cartridges worked for them.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The real mystery is why aren't Star Wars style blasters being developed. Isn't it time we move away from metallic cartridges? Ask HK how the move away from metallic cartridges worked for them. I would buy a G11 or a CAWS tomorrow. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:02:38 PM EDT
[#2]
bullpups are gross
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:02:49 PM EDT
[#3]
If AR/M4 pattern SBR's suddenly could be available without a tax stamp, would our fascination with bullpups end?
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:03:06 PM EDT
[#4]
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To me it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. In close quarters a handgun works. Any longer and an m4gery works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No real performance advantage over already proven systems. To me it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. In close quarters a handgun works. Any longer and an m4gery works. Unless they are wearing body armor even then you're using a vastly underpowered weapon. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:05:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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. Why hasn't anyone made an "AR priced" bullpup yet? Bushmaster did, for a long time - and NOBODY bought it. Hey, that wasn't the question.
Actually it was a quite accurate rifle - but the sight base and horrible trigger made it hard to reach its potential. With a metal rail on top and a trigger job, it could be quite accurate. Certainly accurate enough for "combat" use ( say, as good as a FAL). Again http://www.kmarms.com/images/slide-3.jpg lol Yeah, sorry I missed all the information in your previous post. 
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:18:10 PM EDT
[#6]
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Because the FS 2000 failed to live up to expectations.  Having owned one I agree. However, the Tavor has been fantastic, at least for me. 
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:20:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having owned one I agree. However, the Tavor has been fantastic, at least for me. Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FS2000 has that makes bullpups not useless. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:21:27 PM EDT
[#8]
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Yeah, sorry I missed all the information in your previous post.
No problem lol The only thing I wish they would do is free-float the barrel. But I think that their update is pretty fucking sweet all things considered. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:21:46 PM EDT
[#9]
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Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FS2000 has that makes bullpups not useless. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Having owned one I agree. However, the Tavor has been fantastic, at least for me. Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FS2000 has that makes bullpups not useless. Which is? |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:23:05 PM EDT
[#10]
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Price Parts availability (relative to an AR platform) Manual of Arms Different ergonomics Usually these things. My roommate is a southpaw and couldn't easily pick up a bullpup if say I had one and I'm a righty. The ejection port crap makes it difficult to use for some people. But then there are things like the RFB and FS2000 that get around that by ejecting in unique ways. The roommate isn't really into guns much, but had an FS2000 for a while. He sold it for twice what he paid during the panic. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:23:12 PM EDT
[#11]
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Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FN2000 has that made bullpups not useless. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Having owned one I agree. However, the Tavor has been fantastic, at least for me. Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FN2000 has that made bullpups not useless. Exactly. The Tavor adds nothing that they SteurAUG didn't already do over 40 years ago |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:23:13 PM EDT
[#12]
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Which is? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Having owned one I agree. However, the Tavor has been fantastic, at least for me. Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FS2000 has that makes bullpups not useless. Which is? I'm going to guess "Not throwing brass in your face if you switch shoulders" for $500, Alex. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:23:58 PM EDT
[#13]
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Which is? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Having owned one I agree. However, the Tavor has been fantastic, at least for me. Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FS2000 has that makes bullpups not useless. Which is? Forward eject - I.e. can shoot from either side |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:24:31 PM EDT
[#14]
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I'm going to guess "Not throwing brass in your face if you switch shoulders" for $500, Alex. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Having owned one I agree. However, the Tavor has been fantastic, at least for me. Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FS2000 has that makes bullpups not useless. Which is? I'm going to guess "Not throwing brass in your face if you switch shoulders" for $500, Alex. I'm not having that problem when shooting lefty. But I do understand now. 
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:26:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not having that problem when shooting lefty. It doesn't shoot hot steaming loads into your face like this?  I can just imagine someone yelling, shooting and brass going down his throat lol. Thats hot. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:27:32 PM EDT
[#16]
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Exactly. The Tavor adds nothing that they SteurAUG didn't already do over 40 years ago Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Having owned one I agree. However, the Tavor has been fantastic, at least for me. Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FN2000 has that made bullpups not useless. Exactly. The Tavor adds nothing that they SteurAUG didn't already do over 40 years ago True. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:27:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forward eject - I.e. can shoot from either side Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Having owned one I agree. However, the Tavor has been fantastic, at least for me. Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FS2000 has that makes bullpups not useless. Which is? Forward eject - I.e. can shoot from either side |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:31:20 PM EDT
[#18]
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Exactly. The Tavor adds nothing that they SteurAUG didn't already do over 40 years ago Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Having owned one I agree. However, the Tavor has been fantastic, at least for me. Except the Tavor lacks the thing the FN2000 has that made bullpups not useless. Exactly. The Tavor adds nothing that they SteurAUG didn't already do over 40 years ago It's like we're being taunted by engineers
...plus the Tavor seems unduly heavy for what it is. Don't know if it just has a lot of moment of inertia or what but it felt like the Izzies hid a lead ingot somewhere in the stock. RE the plastic internal moving parts of the FS2000; yeah. that'd be great if I could walk into just about any gun store in the country and have an even chance of picking up a replacement part a la an AR GI hammer, but when the OEM tells you the only way to get spares is to buy another fucking rifle it's not exactly confidence-inspiring. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:31:21 PM EDT
[#19]
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It doesn't shoot hot steaming loads into your face like this?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIDgXje5fds
I can just imagine someone yelling, shooting and brass going down his throat lol. Thats hot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm not having that problem when shooting lefty. It doesn't shoot hot steaming loads into your face like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIDgXje5fds
I can just imagine someone yelling, shooting and brass going down his throat lol. Thats hot. Honestly no. Mine ejects to the 2 o clock position pretty well. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:31:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Because bullpups are fucking retarded
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:32:28 PM EDT
[#21]
I think it's mostly because they are gay.
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:33:21 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:35:15 PM EDT
[#23]
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SBR OAL, with a carbine/rifle length barrel...seems like a win win. The stuff that is out there now is awesome, but very pricey. Why hasn't anyone made an "AR priced" bullpup yet? That's easy- Price Shitty (generally) triggers Weird manual of arms Solution looking for a problem Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:35:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryAll that demonstrates to me is that the AUGs LOP is retarded.
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:36:21 PM EDT
[#25]
In regards to the trigger performance:
why not switch to piezoelectric trigger. Design the system so you have a nice clean break, the impulse is then transmitted to the sear to get it to release (havent worked out the details on that part yet). the only issues I can see with that type of decoupling is how do you get full auto and mean time between failure on the crystal in the actual trigger mechanism |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:39:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryAll that demonstrates to me is that the AUGs LOP is retarded. you mean that its almost the same as the AR next to it? it has the same LoP as an M16A2 |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:40:03 PM EDT
[#27]
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Bushmaster did, for a long time - and NOBODY bought it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. Why hasn't anyone made an "AR priced" bullpup yet? Bushmaster did, for a long time - and NOBODY bought it. 
guess I'm a nobody. .. and I'm ok with that |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:41:26 PM EDT
[#28]
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In regards to the trigger performance: why not switch to piezoelectric trigger. Design the system so you have a nice clean break, the impulse is then transmitted to the sear to get it to release (havent worked out the details on that part yet). the only issues I can see with that type of decoupling is how do you get full auto and mean time between failure on the crystal in the actual trigger mechanism Electric triggers - exactly what you want in a reliable combat rifle! BATF would love it too. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:41:45 PM EDT
[#29]
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All that demonstrates to me is that the AUGs LOP is retarded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
All that demonstrates to me is that the AUGs LOP is retarded. Seriously! Who shoots a 10.5 SBR with the stock locked out at the longest notch? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:41:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you mean that its almost the same as the AR next to it? it has the same LoP as an M16A2 Yes, the sopmod all the way out is retarded long. The M16A2 is retardedly long. Even Canada knows that.
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:44:03 PM EDT
[#31]
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All that demonstrates to me is that the AUGs LOP is retarded. you mean that its almost the same as the AR next to it?
it has the same LoP as an M16A2 Quote HistoryQuoted:
you mean that its almost the same as the AR next to it?
it has the same LoP as an M16A2 ...which is also retarded. Both the AUG and the A2 were designed without armor in mind and it shows. The AR's stock is fully extended. The only time I've ever found that much stock useful is when I was using a scope from a bench. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:44:06 PM EDT
[#32]
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Honestly no. Mine ejects to the 2 o clock position pretty well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm not having that problem when shooting lefty. It doesn't shoot hot steaming loads into your face like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIDgXje5fds
I can just imagine someone yelling, shooting and brass going down his throat lol. Thats hot. Honestly no. Mine ejects to the 2 o clock position pretty well. Same with mine but you can also easily modify the case deflector (or buy aftermarket) if your Tavor is throwing it across your body when shooting off-hand. It will throw it forward and down...not anywhere near the shooter's face/chest. Looking at my deflector, I could see how it could start throwing brass in your face. There is a definite mark/pit that is starting to wear on it that will probably only get worse with more rounds down range. But its like a 10 dollar piece to replace. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:44:48 PM EDT
[#33]
If you want improved ballistics out of an SBR, we've already solved that for you...
300blk, 6.8 SPC, etc etc Maybe that argument held some water 20 years ago when M193 was the "thing", but with modern calibers you don't have to deal with a trade-off anymore. An up-caliber SBR is having your cake AND eating it too Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:44:56 PM EDT
[#34]
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Price Parts availability (relative to an AR platform) Manual of Arms Different ergonomics This |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:51:03 PM EDT
[#35]
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Bushmaster did, for a long time - and NOBODY bought it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. Why hasn't anyone made an "AR priced" bullpup yet? Bushmaster did, for a long time - and NOBODY bought it. Man that thing was fugly 
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:52:01 PM EDT
[#36]
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To me, the appeal is for armored and airborne infantry to have compact rifles, without having to give up the benefits in velocity and ballistics that the longer barrel has. If you look at the evolution of the rifle over the past 200-250 years, the consistent movement is towards shorter and more compact. So it seems entirely logical to use the largely wasted and non-functional space in a stock to make the rifle more compact, without giving up functionality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No real performance advantage over already proven systems. To me it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. In close quarters a handgun works. Any longer and an m4gery works. I don't understand the appeal. It's nice to have choices though. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile To me, the appeal is for armored and airborne infantry to have compact rifles, without having to give up the benefits in velocity and ballistics that the longer barrel has. If you look at the evolution of the rifle over the past 200-250 years, the consistent movement is towards shorter and more compact. So it seems entirely logical to use the largely wasted and non-functional space in a stock to make the rifle more compact, without giving up functionality. Valid point for the military. Very few civilians ride around in APC's or jump out of airplanes while fully armed. And it appears the military has been luke warm at best to the concept. The L85, FAMAS, and AUG have had only modest success. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:52:28 PM EDT
[#37]
I seriously lust after the RFB. For a while they were around the $1100 price point. Now you can't find them as nicely priced.
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:53:12 PM EDT
[#38]
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Do you prefer Pups or Shottys for Home Defizzle? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All those are more expensive than a pup.... Do you prefer Pups or Shottys for Home Defizzle? Foh rizzle. Shouldn't you be sitting on your front lawn chasing kids away? Quoted:
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SBR OAL, with a carbine/rifle length barrel...seems like a win win. The stuff that is out there now is awesome, but very pricey. Why hasn't anyone made an "AR priced" bullpup yet? I mostly just want one of these. http://www.onpointsupply.com/images/keltec_rfb_fde_2.jpg or these http://www.iwi.us/iwi/media/products/Tavor-TSFD18.jpg What is AR priced? LWRC? Knight’s Armament? LaRue? All those are more expensive than a pup.... Pups usually have much higher end feature sets on the build, therefore you pay more... so you need to compare it to a better build AR platform. The tavor you pictured has a CHF barrel, better components, integrated sights, etc. A $400 AR doesn't have any of these. Lets say 700-900 Show me an AR that is branded (store bought) that has CHF barrel, piston driven, and all the upgraded hardware and parts quality as the Tavor for $700-900. You can't. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:54:14 PM EDT
[#39]
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<a href="http://s117.photobucket.com/user/krotty/media/hunting/Picture054.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o68/krotty/hunting/Picture054.jpg</a> guess I'm a nobody. .. and I'm ok with that Quote HistoryQuoted:
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. Why hasn't anyone made an "AR priced" bullpup yet? Bushmaster did, for a long time - and NOBODY bought it. <a href="http://s117.photobucket.com/user/krotty/media/hunting/Picture054.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o68/krotty/hunting/Picture054.jpg</a> guess I'm a nobody. .. and I'm ok with that I'll bet that feels awesome to cuddle up to in the snow at night. Permanent cheek weld. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:54:45 PM EDT
[#40]
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If you want improved ballistics out of an SBR, we've already solved that for you... 300blk, 6.8 SPC, etc etc Maybe that argument held some water 20 years ago when M193 was the "thing", but with modern calibers you don't have to deal with a trade-off anymore. An up-caliber SBR is having your cake AND eating it too Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And then ammo costs a fuck-ton more, and availability and selection of ammo isn't as wide. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:55:34 PM EDT
[#41]
If they were to sell the LMG versions of theL85 and/or the AUG I'd get another. I'd also take a FAMAS mainly due to the uniqueness of the lever delayed blowback action. I had the FS2K and it was nice, but not my cup of tea. Took up safe volume so it got traded. Also had a MSAR AUG. It never failed that I always had the gas system switched off after taking it apart for cleaning. Nice gun, but it also got traded.
My Walther G22 22LR bullpup is a fun gun but a mega-PITA to disassemble. I wish that there were more semi-bullpup actions available. Semi-bullpup places the mag feed in the same area as the trigger hand (traditional = forward of trigger, bullpup = behind). Unfortunately, the only way to properly achieve this is either with belt feed (M-60) or a side feed magazine (Sterling SMG or German FG-42). |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:56:05 PM EDT
[#42]
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It doesn't shoot hot steaming loads into your face like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIDgXje5fds
I can just imagine someone yelling, shooting and brass going down his throat lol. Thats hot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm not having that problem when shooting lefty. It doesn't shoot hot steaming loads into your face like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIDgXje5fds
I can just imagine someone yelling, shooting and brass going down his throat lol. Thats hot. He seems to handle it just fine. So you can shoot lefty with a bullpup. You just can't be a giant wuss. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:57:45 PM EDT
[#43]
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Foh rizzle. Shouldn't you be sitting on your front lawn chasing kids away? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All those are more expensive than a pup.... Do you prefer Pups or Shottys for Home Defizzle? Foh rizzle. Shouldn't you be sitting on your front lawn chasing kids away? Seems like a lot of effort. I'd have to get out my foldy, open the door, pull out a cooly of beer, decide between a pup, a shotty and a fortay to put on my lap..... Meh. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 12:59:51 PM EDT
[#44]
I'm split between adding a Tavor or a Larue AR to my collection.
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Posted: 11/13/2014 1:02:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bushmaster did, for a long time - and NOBODY bought it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: . Why hasn't anyone made an "AR priced" bullpup yet? Bushmaster did, for a long time - and NOBODY bought it. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 1:02:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He seems to handle it just fine. So you can shoot lefty with a bullpup. You just can't be a giant wuss. Quote HistoryQuoted: So you can shoot lefty with a bullpup. You just can't be a giant wuss. If you think swallowing hot brass is an acceptable thing to have happen to you, then sure. I am sure people who love the feel of hot loads flopping out all over their face and down their throats will love it! |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 1:04:13 PM EDT
[#47]
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Yes, the sopmod all the way out is retarded long. The M16A2 is retardedly long. Even Canada knows that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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you mean that its almost the same as the AR next to it?
it has the same LoP as an M16A2 Yes, the sopmod all the way out is retarded long. The M16A2 is retardedly long. Even Canada knows that. correct |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 1:04:37 PM EDT
[#48]
My MSAR's trigger is not bad at all...
Its definitely the most enjoyable rifle I own now. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 1:11:28 PM EDT
[#49]
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If AR/M4 pattern SBR's suddenly could be available without a tax stamp, would our fascination with bullpups end? Nope. I don't understand the appeal of a rifle with a short barrel. Just use a Glock if you need a barrel less than 16-18".
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Posted: 11/13/2014 1:17:57 PM EDT
[#50]
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You cant do the costa long arm hold. Yeah that ruined it for me right there! Plus the color of most bullpup stocks clash with my Costa pants and beard. They are right out imho! |
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