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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:19:38 PM EDT
[#1]
the first time i saw this picture, i assumed it was an extremely high end race engine.. its not its just a audi needing a timing change replacement. i've replaced timing chains in a couple of nissans, and im familiar with how it works in a chevy v8 with a single cam.. and it works amazingly well.
i had a bmw m3 and sold it right before it went out of warranty because of its complication and the potential for very expensive repairs. as for japanese manufacturing, from my experience, especially if was put together in japan, you never need to worry about how complicated it is as it will prolly run forever. 
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:36:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germany is a country of engineers and smart people who like order So what happens when you let them make something? They try to out engineer the next guy British normally just engineer good enough to work because why not, it works don’t it? USA engineering revolves around how much profit can we squeeze out of each unit and if that means we can use all the same Bolts we will Do it Good engineering includes keeping things a simple as possible while accomplishing the goal. IMO Germany is a country of craftsmen/machinists who took pride in their ability to make intricate mechanisms to such an extent that they failed to develop an appreciation for the elegance of simplicity. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:36:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I used to work for a company that offered products across 16 different countries. We adopted get 80% to perfect and moved on. The Japanese team couldn’t handle it. I explained in the time it takes to make A perfect I can make B, C, D, E 50% better and make 2x the profit. They got so frustrated they sent an email to my leaders. I replied I had improved the profitability 100% by prioritizing. Then I listed their unfinished projects and how it stopped me from doubling the profit and they were putting us at regulatory risk. It really backfired for them. It looked like they were not doing their job but trying to be my boss. They ended up prioritizing anything I said. It was a hard way to learn to listen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My dad worked for a Berlin-based German company & he claimed they couldn’t understand “American thinking” which was “too rudimentary & unsophisticated.” Not an answer, I realize, but I suspect cultural differences factor in. For example—when the infamous Luger pistol had reliability issues with dirt & ammo—a better holster was offered, rather than “A1” version. I used to work for a company that offered products across 16 different countries. We adopted get 80% to perfect and moved on. The Japanese team couldn’t handle it. I explained in the time it takes to make A perfect I can make B, C, D, E 50% better and make 2x the profit. They got so frustrated they sent an email to my leaders. I replied I had improved the profitability 100% by prioritizing. Then I listed their unfinished projects and how it stopped me from doubling the profit and they were putting us at regulatory risk. It really backfired for them. It looked like they were not doing their job but trying to be my boss. They ended up prioritizing anything I said. It was a hard way to learn to listen. maybe if you didn't manage your products like an MBA and put out 100% good shit. 
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:42:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good engineering includes keeping things a simple as possible while accomplishing the goal. IMO Germany is a country of craftsmen/machinists who took pride in their ability to make intricate mechanisms to such an extent that they failed to develop an appreciation for the elegance of simplicity. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Germany is a country of engineers and smart people who like order So what happens when you let them make something? They try to out engineer the next guy British normally just engineer good enough to work because why not, it works don’t it? USA engineering revolves around how much profit can we squeeze out of each unit and if that means we can use all the same Bolts we will Do it Good engineering includes keeping things a simple as possible while accomplishing the goal. IMO Germany is a country of craftsmen/machinists who took pride in their ability to make intricate mechanisms to such an extent that they failed to develop an appreciation for the elegance of simplicity. makes sense...I would gather that Russia would be on the othe rside of the coin. Make somthing simple and Ivan proof
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:46:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Read this many years ago, and laughed my ass off "If Germans invented the anvil, it would have 17 parts, and require yearly calibration"  Oooh I’m gonna have to tell my dad that one lol |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:01:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because sometimes you need to land on the moon and return people safely Courtesy of Werner Von Braun. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:07:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germans love to over engineer and I don’t think they have ever stuck by the “kiss” principle What about the Trabant? Sure, commies, but German commies. Cheap to make, simple, and didn't work. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:09:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germans love to over engineer and I don't think they have ever stuck by the "kiss" principle It's more than over engineering and they seem to get stuck in some type of uncertain priorities/ocd loop in many cases. It took them 30 years to build the Berlin airport and I think it's still a problem riddled embarrassment. They are super proud of a new system that retains caps on disposable bottles and such. Their typical PET bottles for soda, bottled water, etc. (and milk type cartons) are made in a way that the caps can be opened and closed but are still retained on the bottle so they aren't lost or discarded into the environment. Its an interesting idea, but their trash collection and recycling is such a catastrophe that the whole effort is just silly. They also are quite impressed with their water saving inspection-shelf toilet design. In reality, people flush twice as much and then need to add a scrub and additional flush to clear the bowl of debris while simultaneously stenching the whole bathroom and surrounding areas. I'm not even going to get started on their ridiculous deposit system for plastic and glass containers or the automatic machines that they build to handle return. Good Lord. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:11:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I used to work for a company that offered products across 16 different countries. We adopted get 80% to perfect and moved on. The Japanese team couldn’t handle it. I explained in the time it takes to make A perfect I can make B, C, D, E 50% better and make 2x the profit. They got so frustrated they sent an email to my leaders. I replied I had improved the profitability 100% by prioritizing. Then I listed their unfinished projects and how it stopped me from doubling the profit and they were putting us at regulatory risk. It really backfired for them. It looked like they were not doing their job but trying to be my boss. They ended up prioritizing anything I said. It was a hard way to learn to listen. You get 80 percent of the capability for 20 percent of the effort. This gets you five times the amount of good enough. This philosophy won WWII. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:14:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the rules of German cars is: Why use one type of fastener for a component/assembly, when you can use three different ones requiring three different types/sizes of tools? I drive a German car. This is false. If it's meant to be disassembled on the regular it's all the same tool used or it is toolless. Other than that it's all about the stresses it will see. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:19:06 PM EDT
[#11]
German born and raised.
Efficiency in German culture has always taken a distant back seat to 'this is better'. As long as its better, its better. Fuck anything else. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:20:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Audi: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-q_hmo-Pa9eI%2FTmEUm5juG_I%2FAAAAAAAAB2k%2Fp64vTNfuYAc%2Fs640%2FTimingChain-S4-01-sm.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=ad6512384e5ac371b0c564a9d737aa79e4f8f1b5e572971938c6cba1daa94d68&ipo=images General Motors LS block: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn3.volusion.com%2Fzcarq.lhmhc%2Fv%2Fvspfiles%2Fphotos%2FLS02-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=8470eaa5aca4548ded53182681dc86658aaee5f119d81001b46d43694e9e6978&ipo=images Germans like complexity for complexity's sake. Ask a lazy person to do something. They'll find a faster, easier and more efficient way to accomplish the task. G11 Fire control  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:20:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about the Trabant? Sure, commies, but German commies. It's a fucking miracle that the West Krauts went with a stamped metal blowback rifle during the Cold War, and didn't try some space magic bullshit as soon as the bombs stopped falling. EDIT see the post above. That's a company that made its' name pushing sheet metal bullet hoses for conscripts, but leave 'em alone for 5 seconds and that's the kind of shit you get. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:23:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryLet's make a watch shoot bullets. And not a simple watch either like a Timex or Vostok. Something like a Zenith, Cartier or Patek Phillipe. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:25:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germans are evil. That's why. Destroyed Rome, invented Marxism, etc. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:26:24 PM EDT
[#16]
They are really bad at engineering. The worst I would say.
It takes skill to balance functionality with complexity. Any fucking moron can make something more complex than it needs to be. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:27:28 PM EDT
[#17]
German mechanical can be a O-Boy at times but generally its good stuff.... their electrical controls and wiring logic is a black hole of dog shit... fuck be on them !
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:28:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was in some instances when they were losing World War II. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: KISS is not in the German dictionary. It was in some instances when they were losing World War II. They were very sloppy at the end. So were the Japanese. It’s actually a collectors niche. I have some last ditch German pistols and Japanese rifles that even I could have hand built; the rifles anyway. They were that crude. It’s weird to hold a war trophy in your hand that was made by a country that was nearly spent. Like a dying patient, paralyzed, drenched in his own diarrhea. Still alive, but you can hear a fat lady singing. A dying nation’s final product…. It bugs me that we voluntarily destroyed the Mum on our war trophies. The Japanese would not have shown us the same kindness. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:32:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Weil sie natürlich können. But did they stop to ask if they should? |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:34:18 PM EDT
[#20]
they are too proud of how smart they are and over engineer things to show off. at least thats my guess.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:34:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Motor Trend or another car magazine looked into this years ago. They compared ash trays. The US made ones were 1-3 parts. A stamped part and maybe a handled that was screwed on. The one of a Mercedes? 23 parts....
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:35:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about the Trabant? Sure, commies, but German commies. Cheap to make, simple, and didn't work. I am mostly familiar with there pre war auto stuff and while good it was always pushing the envelope of tech |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:38:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Courtesy of Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because sometimes you need to land on the moon and return people safely Courtesy of Fixt. Just ask Von Braun. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:40:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the rules of German cars is: Why use one type of fastener for a component/assembly, when you can use three different ones requiring three different types/sizes of tools? I tried to do an oil change on my BMW. It uses some weird 32mm or something socket to remove the oil filter. I've had a ton of tools used for years but had to special buy that one. They couldn't use a 22mm or something really common? Of course not. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:43:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were very sloppy at the end. So were the Japanese. It’s actually a collectors niche. I have some last ditch German pistols and Japanese rifles that even I could have hand built; the rifles anyway. They were that crude. It’s weird to hold a war trophy in your hand that was made by a country that was nearly spent. Like a dying patient, paralyzed, drenched in his own diarrhea. Still alive, but you can hear a fat lady singing. A dying nation’s final product…. It bugs me that we voluntarily destroyed the Mum on our war trophies. The Japanese would not have shown us the same kindness. I held a Volkssturmgewehr once. It was really crude and yet still rather complicated. The trigger mechanism was a nightmare. Also, yeah it felt really weird to hold it. I swear that I could still feel the raw determination and perhaps seething hatred that went into designing and building it all those years ago. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 5:57:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Audi: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-q_hmo-Pa9eI%2FTmEUm5juG_I%2FAAAAAAAAB2k%2Fp64vTNfuYAc%2Fs640%2FTimingChain-S4-01-sm.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=ad6512384e5ac371b0c564a9d737aa79e4f8f1b5e572971938c6cba1daa94d68&ipo=images General Motors LS block: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn3.volusion.com%2Fzcarq.lhmhc%2Fv%2Fvspfiles%2Fphotos%2FLS02-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=8470eaa5aca4548ded53182681dc86658aaee5f119d81001b46d43694e9e6978&ipo=images Germans like complexity for complexity's sake. Ask a lazy person to do something. They'll find a faster, easier and more efficient way to accomplish the task. As an engineer, I disagree with the last statement. It is far easier to engineer something with a crapton of parts than it is to take the time to be elegant about it and think through making one part do the job of many. With complexity like that shown, all you're doing is adding part after part to get to a final solution - takes more drawings, but its lazy engineering. The Japanese took that to heart after WWII, then dedicated their efforts to perfecting that one part and reducing its weight 1 gram at a time. The Germans failed to learn their lesson. In WWII, they would have been far better off to focus on making every Mk IV panzer and Mk IV variant (Stugs and Wirbelwind/Ostwinds (AA)) than they were with building all the dozens of variants of everything under the sun just because they could. That was what the US did with the Sherman, and by wars' end, the E8s and heavy Shermans were pretty formidable AND there were a LOT of them. The Shermans used a cobbled up automotive-based engine, where ze Germans had to have a dedicated diesel for every platform. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:01:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any fucking moron can make something more complex than it needs to be. I know a few people that make life similar to German engineering now that you mentioned this. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:02:17 PM EDT
[#28]
I’ve worked with German engineers for 30 years. The reason is that German engineers spend a lot of time studying all of the requirements of the intended purpose and then they spend even more time to achieve the intended purpose with as few compromises as possible. They will change and adapt the design to try to eliminate this or that sub-optimal factor. They are driven to try to create the perfect no-compromise design, which often ends up highly complex. However, they don’t recognize complexity as sub-optimal in and of itself.
This is the also reason they are unable to build something simple, cheap, and good. When they try, it just ends up being a cheap piece of shit. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:04:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Courtesy of Werner Von Braun. Grossly uninformed take. There were more that 400,000 engineers, scientists and techs that made Apollo happen, fewer than 100 were Germans. Von Braun himself thought that the task could never have been accomplished anywhere but in the US, with American know how, determination, and resources. The mighty Saturn V engines, the most reliable rocket engine ever built, owed their stability and reliability to one Auburn-trained Alabama-native country boy who solved the combustion stability issues that von Braun's team had all but given up on. There were thousands of examples of this throughout the space program. Your veil of ignorance has been removed, go forth an be ignorant no more. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:06:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I drive a German car. This is false. If it's meant to be disassembled on the regular it's all the same tool used or it is toolless. Other than that it's all about the stresses it will see. Comical take. I just went out to change the air filter on my German car. US and Japanese cars, usually 2-4 over center finger clamps and you're done. German air filter - EIGHT T25 Torx fasteners. Just for the air filter. You obviously have someone else do all your maintenance....... |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:10:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fixt. Just ask Von Braun. WRONG. See above. The Paperclip Germans were a piece of a vastly larger puzzle. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:11:47 PM EDT
[#32]
We took all the good german engineers during operation paperclip
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:20:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Höchstgeschwindigkeitsbegrenzungszeichen. “Zeichen” is a separate word. ?????? |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:27:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's more than over engineering and they seem to get stuck in some type of uncertain priorities/ocd loop in many cases. It took them 30 years to build the Berlin airport and I think it's still a problem riddled embarrassment. They are super proud of a new system that retains caps on disposable bottles and such. Their typical PET bottles for soda, bottled water, etc. (and milk type cartons) are made in a way that the caps can be opened and closed but are still retained on the bottle so they aren't lost or discarded into the environment. Its an interesting idea, but their trash collection and recycling is such a catastrophe that the whole effort is just silly. They also are quite impressed with their water saving inspection-shelf toilet design. In reality, people flush twice as much and then need to add a scrub and additional flush to clear the bowl of debris while simultaneously stenching the whole bathroom and surrounding areas. I'm not even going to get started on their ridiculous deposit system for plastic and glass containers or the automatic machines that they build to handle return. Good Lord. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Germans love to over engineer and I don't think they have ever stuck by the "kiss" principle It's more than over engineering and they seem to get stuck in some type of uncertain priorities/ocd loop in many cases. It took them 30 years to build the Berlin airport and I think it's still a problem riddled embarrassment. They are super proud of a new system that retains caps on disposable bottles and such. Their typical PET bottles for soda, bottled water, etc. (and milk type cartons) are made in a way that the caps can be opened and closed but are still retained on the bottle so they aren't lost or discarded into the environment. Its an interesting idea, but their trash collection and recycling is such a catastrophe that the whole effort is just silly. They also are quite impressed with their water saving inspection-shelf toilet design. In reality, people flush twice as much and then need to add a scrub and additional flush to clear the bowl of debris while simultaneously stenching the whole bathroom and surrounding areas. I'm not even going to get started on their ridiculous deposit system for plastic and glass containers or the automatic machines that they build to handle return. Good Lord. +1 Ha, that fucking shit shelf. This is a poster well acquainted with the German people. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:28:42 PM EDT
[#35]
That's why I love America. We built tanks in car factories to win world war 2 and engineered a grain silo in bum fuck Texas to launch into space as the biggest rocket in history.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:31:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: makes sense...I would gather that Russia would be on the othe rside of the coin. Make somthing simple and Ivan proof At the end of the war, Russians captured a Walther plant. They took the Walther PPK design (42 parts), and simplified it to produce the Makarov pistol (27 parts). |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:33:12 PM EDT
[#37]
There's a common held belief that German 's build superior products. It's a myth for the reason OP stated. I've driven their car's BMW's, Mercedes and Audi's they don't drive or handle any better than a comparable Lexus. I avoid German products. Japanese engineering and build quality is superior.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:35:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At the end of the war, Russians captured a Walther plant. They took the Walther PPK design (42 parts), and simplified it to produce the Makarov pistol (27 parts). The American Army captured the walther factory. Was later occupied by the french |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:38:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Bunch of haters in this thread.
 @Fantomas |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:40:00 PM EDT
[#40]
In 1995, I was a roadie for an American band that toured Germany, we toured with a German band. Both bands were driving Sprinter style vans. On our first night, we figured out how we were going to load up our gear into the van, it took some time but that was it, each night we loaded the stuff in the same way. It became our system. This went one for three weeks.
Every night the German band tried to load their stuff in their van a better way. Some nights it worked out well some nights it did not. They were always trying to improve how they did it. It gave me a real-world view on how they do things. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:44:02 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:44:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Just changed the auxiliary cooling fan on my VW product and there was pretty well designed modularity so... 20 min job.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:45:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the rules of German cars is: Why use one type of fastener for a component/assembly, when you can use three different ones requiring three different types/sizes of tools? Let's use the hood release latch on my 2002 VW Jetta for example- a tried and tested simple stamped 90 degree release? Oh hell now! T-handle pulls on a series of 90 degree cams, connected with plastic yoke (spoiler alert- they BREAK) to finally leverage the motion down to the actual latch... mine has been held together with a zip tie for a while now. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:47:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ja! I get to use my favorite (yes, this is an actual) German word twice in a week (asked about in another German language thread): Höchstgeschwindigkeitsbegrenzungszeichen. 40 letters…41 if the ö is oe. What is it: speed limit sign. Quote HistoryQuoted: Ja! I get to use my favorite (yes, this is an actual) German word twice in a week (asked about in another German language thread): Höchstgeschwindigkeitsbegrenzungszeichen. 40 letters…41 if the ö is oe. What is it: speed limit sign. maximum speed limit = Höchstgeschwindigkeitsbegrenzung Quoted: A good example is that I had the experience of vetting a lot of scientific papers written by German grad students. The requirement was that they be written in English. In almost every case I had to explain to the authors that if their target audience had trouble understanding what they wrote it, regardless of the correctness of the grammar, that it was bad writing, not that the audience wasn't smart enough to understand. This completely perplexed and disappointed them. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:50:24 PM EDT
[#45]
My grandfather was part German and he had those tendencies. When I was a kid he seen me cross a 4 lane road. He explained the proper way, "Stay on this side and walk down to the red lighted intersection, when green cross, then wait until that light turned green.....". Even cutting his grass back in the 1970s with his electric lawn mower he was like that. There wasn't a single blade of grass that needed trimming and not a leaf off the tree on the lawn after he was finished. Everything he had was tip top. I think this is where my OCD for details comes from, but I like to keep things simple and complicated things annoy me like those timing chains on Audi engines. It don't have to be German.
 This annoys me.  But this is ok. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:55:00 PM EDT
[#46]
I have a buddy in SOCOM (Delta), we all know PMAGs work very well but some of those Delta boys put so many rounds and do so much training with their HK416s that the PMAGs started cracking, many opted to go to the steel "high-reliability" HK416 magazines.
Sure they cost almost $100 each and weigh what 6 PMAGs weigh, but damn those things are absolute tanks, the finishing on them alone I better that most Ruger or S&W auto slides I have come across. The build quality on them is soooooo perfect and beautiful and unnecessary for a magazine that myself would feel bad even shooting those mags or letting them drop on the floor. Their HK416s were one of the very few guns that would not break down, the metallurgy on those rifles is top notch, they are heavy for a reason. I may be biased because I've only leased and owner Bimmers, VWs, and Audis since I was a teen but optics, anything involving stamping and metals and mechanical components (like engines), and the Germans do some freaky, beautiful things with them. As far as Jap cars, well they can stick to their TVs and electronics, of course any underpowered engine that is 8-10 years behind the rest will be reliable. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 6:56:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ja! I get to use my favorite (yes, this is an actual) German word twice in a week (asked about in another German language thread): H chstgeschwindigkeitsbegrenzungszeichen. 40 letters 41 if the is oe. What is it: speed limit sign. H chstgeschwindigkeitsbegrenzungsschild Zeichen is not the correct use in this case. ETA: "Begrenzung" is kind of superfluous too, albeit technically allowable. 
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Posted: 7/30/2023 7:00:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a buddy in SOCOM (Delta), we all know PMAGs work very well but some of those Delta boys put so many rounds and do so much training with their HK416s that the PMAGs started cracking, many opted to go to the steel "high-reliability" HK416 magazines. Sure they cost almost $100 each and weigh what 6 PMAGs weigh, but damn those things are absolute tanks, the finishing on them alone I better that most Ruger or S&W auto slides I have come across. The build quality on them is soooooo perfect and beautiful and unnecessary for a magazine that myself would feel bad even shooting those mags or letting them drop on the floor. I may be biased because I've only leased and owner Bimmers, VWs, and Audis since I was a teen but optics, anything involving stamping and metals and mechanical components (like engines), and the Germans do some freaky, beautiful things with them. As far as Jap cars, well they can stick to their TVs and electronics, of course any underpowered engine that is 8-10 years behind the rest will be reliable. Calling BS on the 416 mags. Heavy and they have poor spring tension, and the spring is non replaceable. 416's had well known issues with out running magazines |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 7:06:46 PM EDT
[#49]
German: Good enough isn't perfect. Less than perfect is flawed. Flawed is failure. Failure is a reflection on the engineer.
American: It will probably last the warranty period, and if not, that's what warranties are for. Ship it.  |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 7:07:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a buddy in SOCOM (Delta), we all know PMAGs work very well but some of those Delta boys put so many rounds and do so much training with their HK416s that the PMAGs started cracking, many opted to go to the steel "high-reliability" HK416 magazines. Sure they cost almost $100 each and weigh what 6 PMAGs weigh, but damn those things are absolute tanks, the finishing on them alone I better that most Ruger or S&W auto slides I have come across. The build quality on them is soooooo perfect and beautiful and unnecessary for a magazine that myself would feel bad even shooting those mags or letting them drop on the floor. Their HK416s were one of the very few guns that would not break down, the metallurgy on those rifles is top notch, they are heavy for a reason. I may be biased because I've only leased and owner Bimmers, VWs, and Audis since I was a teen but optics, anything involving stamping and metals and mechanical components (like engines), and the Germans do some freaky, beautiful things with them. As far as Jap cars, well they can stick to their TVs and electronics, of course any underpowered engine that is 8-10 years behind the rest will be reliable. Economy of scale. If I could replace every HK mag with 10 PMAGs that is a no brainer. I may damage. lose, or wear a few PMAGs out but never anywhere nearing the investment on return level to justify the HK one. They are meant to be semi expendable anyways. |
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