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Posted: 6/19/2023 9:17:17 AM EDT
[#1]
If they both were viced into place and trigger pulled with a string, sure they would be about the same accuracy at pistol ranges. However, the interface with the gun to the shooter is where they differ. People who shoot the staccato say it feels like they are cheating. Glocks- not so much.
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Posted: 6/19/2023 9:19:29 AM EDT
[#2]
I dont understand why people get so worked up over what guns other people enjoy.
I shot a two gun match this weekend with my Staccato P, I love that thing. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 9:34:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they both were viced into place and trigger pulled with a string, sure they would be about the same accuracy at pistol ranges. However, the interface with the gun to the shooter is where they differ. People who shoot the staccato say it feels like they are cheating. Glocks- not so much. And here this dummy prefers double action 
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Posted: 6/19/2023 9:35:32 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can someone confirm what duty weapon this guy had that jammed? It was a 2011 right?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuzoWXJx2jgMost of the Glocks sitting in police holsters are poorly maintained and not lubricated. And police have a bad tendency to chamber and re-chamber the same one or two rounds over and over again when they administratively unload and reload the gun. That kills the primer and deforms the case enough that you have a dickens of a time clearing it. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 9:53:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not true, just an opinion and there are also various stages of classes from beginners to advanced shooters to take. And anyone who says that there is no need for anything is someone I generally stop listening to, because 9,999 times out of 10,000, they really don't know what a person really needs or doesn't need and are just opining a personal opinion of theirs based on the unknown in hopes that that they can influence someone and pretty much setting them up for failure IMO based on past experiences with those telling me what I didn't and did need. They were wrong and a life lesson was learned to ignore these types. YMMV Nope, You just need a good reliable gun, You are there to learn, not try to impress people with your latest gizmo. I'm not trying to influence you or care what you shoot, but none of the crap will help you improve during the class |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 10:07:07 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, You just need a good reliable gun, You are there to learn, not try to impress people with your latest gizmo. I'm not trying to influence you or care what you shoot, but none of the crap will help you improve during the class Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's not true, just an opinion and there are also various stages of classes from beginners to advanced shooters to take. And anyone who says that there is no need for anything is someone I generally stop listening to, because 9,999 times out of 10,000, they really don't know what a person really needs or doesn't need and are just opining a personal opinion of theirs based on the unknown in hopes that that they can influence someone and pretty much setting them up for failure IMO based on past experiences with those telling me what I didn't and did need. They were wrong and a life lesson was learned to ignore these types. YMMV Nope, You just need a good reliable gun, You are there to learn, not try to impress people with your latest gizmo. I'm not trying to influence you or care what you shoot, but none of the crap will help you improve during the class So you carry a SAA right? |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 11:37:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Brother I converted two haters at Keystone this week. They were like okay screw you whiskers thanks a lot Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't know why, but now I want one. Thanks a lot, fellas. Brother I converted two haters at Keystone this week. They were like okay screw you whiskers thanks a lot I hosted a NV training class that several ARF members attended. At the end of class, one of the members offered to allow me to shoot his Staccato. As I'm heading to the line to test fire the gun everyone was yelling at me not to do it. I instantly found it amazing. I've shot Glocks for 30 years, but after one mag I really wanted a Staccato. 1 month later I bought a used Staccato XC - I freaking love that gun and have really enjoyed shooting it. I have never owned a pistol that felt so natural to shoot. The only downside is the ammo cost, it's hard to go to the range and not shoot 200 - 300 rounds because it is just so fun to shoot. Yeah, it may not be for everyone and it is expensive, but it has made my life more enjoyable. I haven't experienced anything like this since the first time I looked through NV, and I knew I had to buy that superpower. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 11:59:06 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you carry a SAA right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's not true, just an opinion and there are also various stages of classes from beginners to advanced shooters to take. And anyone who says that there is no need for anything is someone I generally stop listening to, because 9,999 times out of 10,000, they really don't know what a person really needs or doesn't need and are just opining a personal opinion of theirs based on the unknown in hopes that that they can influence someone and pretty much setting them up for failure IMO based on past experiences with those telling me what I didn't and did need. They were wrong and a life lesson was learned to ignore these types. YMMV Nope, You just need a good reliable gun, You are there to learn, not try to impress people with your latest gizmo. I'm not trying to influence you or care what you shoot, but none of the crap will help you improve during the class So you carry a SAA right?  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 12:17:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're coming from people not owning or using the same things as you  Aimpoint ACRO P2 $599 FCD ACRO MOS Plate $72 Edit, also add $332 for a Surefire X300 Turbo I quit reading here. If you're going to add this to the cost, you have to add it to the Staccato as well. Not going to argue with someone being disingenuous. Have a nice day 
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Posted: 6/19/2023 12:20:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope, You just need a good reliable gun, You are there to learn, not try to impress people with your latest gizmo. I'm not trying to influence you or care what you shoot, but none of the crap will help you improve during the class Nope, you don't know what anyone needs but for yourself and that's a fact. People doing these classes are there to learn, refresh, etc., with what they've chosen to use so that's ignorant if you're of limited mind to think that it's for showing off. Are you always this scornful of folks with anything you disprove of? What is that like, living a soured life with those views every single day? You cannot control what people like, buy, carry, train with. All you can control is things for yourself. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 12:21:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I quit reading here. If you're going to add this to the cost, you have to add it to the Staccato as well. Not going to argue with someone being disingenuous. Have a nice day Ah, you played checkers with a chess player with your disingenuous argument and have retreated to save face. Not being honest is inexcusable, especially for an instructor. Have a nice day indeed |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 12:40:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Trash" is subjective. Many believe a Springfield Prodigy is "trash." For those of us in the know, they are not. They are a great build gun and that can be coaxed into amazing duty grade guns with a little elbow grease and knowledge. My Prodigy went through 500 in the first session with very little issues. In the process of break in, I broke the ejector which of course was a MIM part. All ignition internals were replaced with a EGW kit that required minimal effort. Slide lock replaced with a 10-8 version, trigger replaced with a short flat Atlas version. Done. Well under a Staccato in price and I would run it against one in a heartbeat. By all accounts the Platypus is a worthy "2011" contender and I remain interested in picking one up. I can't tell if this post is trolling or not. "It broke the MIM ejector in the first 500 rounds, and I had to replace a bunch of internals to make it go bang reliably, but its totally not trash bro" |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 12:41:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Brother I converted two haters at Keystone this week. They were like okay screw you whiskers thanks a lot DAMN YOU |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 12:48:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Brother I converted two haters at Keystone this week. They were like okay screw you whiskers thanks a lot A point of order: I wasn't a hater of the Staccato. I was a hater of the average Staccato buyer. My assessment of the average Staccato buyer is still true. Yes, your Staccato fucks. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 12:59:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My assessment of the average Staccato buyer is still true. Char would use a red Glock with a fancy trigger. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 1:02:37 PM EDT
[#16]
I am buying a light used MR920 Elite for $750. Should I pepper my angus?
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Posted: 6/19/2023 1:08:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does a $500 Glock become a $1500 Glock for carry? Take the optic out because that's the same. Also the light. If you want, replace the sights. There's $150 on the high end. Then what? Maybe a trigger job? What's the new Glock performance trigger cost, like less than $100? Dang. That $500 glock just became $750. Which is what, $2000 less than an entry level 2011 like a Staccato? Is it going to shoot as well as a Staccato? Nope. Is it going to make a difference in the hands of a mid-level trained guy? Nope. Yeah, I wanna know this too. I actually dont have any of this custom work done to my Glock 45. I have a back plate with the gun's name laser engraved, but that $40 piece doesnt effect the performance in any way. I shot a USPSA classifier match yesterday. I did throw one shot because of a fucked up grip. I would have thrown that shot with any pistol. It was my second shot at a target, and I was shooting predictively. The other 83 rounds I fired yesterday were all As. I was running the stages at the speed of my vision. The only thing a Staccato could have gotten me in that context would be slightly faster splits than my functionally stock G45. There wasn't a single stage where the difference would have added up to a whole half second. Staccato's trigger does make it slightly easier to do an array of things I rarely do with a pistol. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 1:10:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am buying a light used MR920 Elite for $750. Should I pepper my angus? I am a big fan of Shadow Systems. In my opinion all the changes Glock should have made, but didn't... Except for the trigger. You'll probably still have to put in a better trigger. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 1:27:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am a big fan of Shadow Systems. In my opinion all the changes Glock should have made, but didn't... Except for the trigger. You'll probably still have to put in a better trigger. Is it true one of the back straps unfks the grip angle? |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 1:34:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still don't understand the Sig/Beretta DA/SA deal. At least with striker fired pistols you get a consistent pull. The only defense is "bro just train around it" Okay sure I could but why would I want to? I kind of like a good SA/DA trigger. My Sigs have SRT’s, which are pretty good. Not good SAO good, but better than the average striker or SA/DA trigger. It’s a bit like revolvers. Longer DA pull potentially for a first shot, but the option for the short pull with hammer cocked. And, yes, I guess I’ve trained enough to get used to it. I’m still more accurate with my SA/DA Sigs than any striker. I’m not a crap shot with a striker, but consistency is easier with the SA/DA’s. Which rounds us back to the thread topic. I can only imagine another increase in consistency with a nice SAO trigger. My 1911’s and 1903 triggers are all great. A nicer version in a 9mm platform sounds pretty darn sweet, though I don’t have any direct experience, yet… I aim to change that. Pun intended. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 1:47:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I wanna know this too. I actually dont have any of this custom work done to my Glock 45. I have a back plate with the gun's name laser engraved, but that $40 piece doesnt effect the performance in any way. I shot a USPSA classifier match yesterday. I did throw one shot because of a fucked up grip. I would have thrown that shot with any pistol. It was my second shot at a target, and I was shooting predictively. The other 83 rounds I fired yesterday were all As. I was running the stages at the speed of my vision. The only thing a Staccato could have gotten me in that context would be slightly faster splits than my functionally stock G45. There wasn't a single stage where the difference would have added up to a whole half second. Staccato's trigger does make it slightly easier to do an array of things I rarely do with a pistol. Having a really nice trigger helps you when the shots get over 100 yards, which can be a common thing in 2gun/3gun. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 1:50:26 PM EDT
[#22]
2011's are sweet. Competition guys have known that for years.
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Posted: 6/19/2023 2:13:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it true one of the back straps unfks the grip angle? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am a big fan of Shadow Systems. In my opinion all the changes Glock should have made, but didn't... Except for the trigger. You'll probably still have to put in a better trigger. Is it true one of the back straps unfks the grip angle? I've seen them in shops with a regular fucked Glock angle, and others with a better angle. I'm not sure why that is. Could be different models. P80 figured out my favorite Glock ergos, so I only bought a SS upper. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 2:14:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn you for letting me shoot your Stac. DAMN YOU Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Brother I converted two haters at Keystone this week. They were like okay screw you whiskers thanks a lot Damn you for letting me shoot your Stac. DAMN YOU Which model? I rented a P and it was really nice but I didn’t shoot it much better than my 26. A little faster maybe. Granted, I’ve carried the 26 and for around 15 years with at least 2k through it but only ran two mags through the 2011. I really want the advertised return to target that I want to believe the compensator delivers but it didn’t do much on a couple Glocks I tried. And Staccato shows the compensated model as competition. If I had a real nice 2011 I’d try to carry it even if it’s competition only duty size because I’m tarded like that. Drooling over the Atlas presently but having a TX made piece would make me warm and fuzzy inside. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 2:16:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've seen them in shops with a regular fucked Glock angle, and others with a better angle. I'm not sure why that is. Could be different models. P80 figured out my favorite Glock ergos, so I only bought a SS upper. Gotcha. Thanks for your insights. Cheers. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 2:24:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A point of order: I wasn't a hater of the Staccato. I was a hater of the average Staccato buyer. My assessment of the average Staccato buyer is still true. Yes, your Staccato fucks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Brother I converted two haters at Keystone this week. They were like okay screw you whiskers thanks a lot A point of order: I wasn't a hater of the Staccato. I was a hater of the average Staccato buyer. My assessment of the average Staccato buyer is still true. Yes, your Staccato fucks. I concede to your clarification |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 2:30:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Has anyone here compared the Staccato to the Wilson EDC and SFX double stacks?
I wanted to like Staccato enough to buy, but can't abide that huge plastic grip module on a JMB knock off. I'm hoping the Wilson has better grip ergos for me. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 3:07:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has anyone here compared the Staccato to the Wilson EDC and SFX double stacks? I wanted to like Staccato enough to buy, but can't abide that huge plastic grip module on a JMB knock off. I'm hoping the Wilson has better grip ergos for me. I don't own either, but from reading, the Wilson magazines are proprietary, less expensive, and more reliable. The Wilsons also have external extractors and no grip safety. People say they aren't "true" 2011s because of these differences. I believe the grip on the SFX is a little smaller, but it doesn't have changeable grips like the EDC. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 3:08:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having a really nice trigger helps you when the shots get over 100 yards Quote HistoryQuoted: Having a really nice trigger helps you when the shots get over 100 yards This is true, but my ability to hit IPSCs at 150 and 190 yards is adequate. @WhiskersTheCat seent it. , which can be a common thing in 2gun/3gun. They are not common in the multigun matches I shoot. I've never shot pistol past about 40 yards in a multigun match. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 3:12:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you carry a SAA right? Well, it is difficult to practice what is being taught at classes with a SAA. Unless you are Cowboy Action Larping But people would rather put a comp on a 9mm instead learning recoil control Or put a light trigger on, instead learning a proper trigger press or a magwell instead of learning a proper reload. All shit that make shooting easier, but doesn't teach you to be a better shooter. Great shooters are going to shoot well even if you take away their shooting aids, Crap shooters fall apart as soon as you take them away |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 3:18:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is true, but my ability to hit IPSCs at 150 and 190 yards is adequate. @WhiskersTheCat seent it. They are not common in the multigun matches I shoot. I've never shot pistol past about 40 yards in a multigun match. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Having a really nice trigger helps you when the shots get over 100 yards This is true, but my ability to hit IPSCs at 150 and 190 yards is adequate. @WhiskersTheCat seent it. , which can be a common thing in 2gun/3gun. They are not common in the multigun matches I shoot. I've never shot pistol past about 40 yards in a multigun match. Yep, but that's an excellent point in itself. I got my 150yd shot first time in competition. You got it first time with the Stacatto. I missed it twice with your Glock after having no problems with the closer targets. Could be a bunch of things who knows. Less velocity, different ammo, me not being as disciplined with the trigger, etc |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 3:20:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is true, but my ability to hit IPSCs at 150 and 190 yards is adequate. @WhiskersTheCat seent it. They are not common in the multigun matches I shoot. I've never shot pistol past about 40 yards in a multigun match. I should clarify that at the local level, they’re not common. At majors, they are common along with small steel at 25y |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 3:33:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, it is difficult to practice what is being taught at classes with a SAA. Unless you are Cowboy Action Larping But people would rather put a comp on a 9mm instead learning recoil control Or put a light trigger on, instead learning a proper trigger press or a magwell instead of learning a proper reload. All shit that make shooting easier, but doesn't teach you to be a better shooter. Great shooters are going to shoot well even if you take away their shooting aids, Crap shooters fall apart as soon as you take them away Being a soured luddite is no way to go through life, especially when using false narratives just because you're already biasedly against any enhancements that makes a great shooter even better, and makes a weak shooter stronger. Pretty sure you take away my rifle swHoOtInG aIdS, I'd fall apart as well. But I'd also be left ineffective with just irons, against bad guys using optics. ^^ that's antifa, domestic terrorists. There's no such thing as a fair fight, weak or strong doesn't matter. What matters is using every edge possible that would put you in a superior position in winning over them. Which is also true for handguns. Your way is setting folks up for failure. Pure and simple. Even a strong shooter like Aaron Cowan that many here like to repeat verbatim, makes an excellent argument for using comps on his daily carry. A shit trigger is still a shit trigger. and really makes a difference between hitting and not hitting which when stress happens, a bad trigger will show how bad they are such as NYPD who had a strong shooter (and an instructor) still miss because of that shit trigger in their Glocks. And the magwell is for when you're under stress and hands are shaking. And for some it locks their hand on and more for this purpose than the speed reload. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 3:42:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, it is difficult to practice what is being taught at classes with a SAA. Unless you are Cowboy Action Larping But people would rather put a comp on a 9mm instead learning recoil control Or put a light trigger on, instead learning a proper trigger press or a magwell instead of learning a proper reload. All shit that make shooting easier, but doesn't teach you to be a better shooter. Great shooters are going to shoot well even if you take away their shooting aids, Crap shooters fall apart as soon as you take them away Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you carry a SAA right? Well, it is difficult to practice what is being taught at classes with a SAA. Unless you are Cowboy Action Larping But people would rather put a comp on a 9mm instead learning recoil control Or put a light trigger on, instead learning a proper trigger press or a magwell instead of learning a proper reload. All shit that make shooting easier, but doesn't teach you to be a better shooter. Great shooters are going to shoot well even if you take away their shooting aids, Crap shooters fall apart as soon as you take them away So you prefer to LARP 1990 vs 1890?  |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 3:44:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being a soured luddite is no way to go through life, especially when using false narratives just because you're already biasedly against any enhancements that makes a great shooter even better, and makes a weak shooter stronger. Pretty sure you take away my rifle swHoOtInG aIdS, I'd fall apart as well. But I'd also be left ineffective with just irons, against bad guys using optics. https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/3d435ea004fb02b5b7d391ede4dbe67e?impolicy=wcms_crop_resize&cropH=2000&cropW=2997&xPos=1&yPos=0&width=862&height=575 ^^ that's antifa, domestic terrorists. There's no such thing as a fair fight, weak or strong doesn't matter. What matters is using every edge possible that would put you in a superior position in winning over them. Which is also true for handguns. Your way is setting folks up for failure. Pure and simple. Even a strong shooter like Aaron Cowan that many here like to repeat verbatim, makes an excellent argument for using comps on his daily carry. A shit trigger is still a shit trigger. and really makes a difference between hitting and not hitting which when stress happens, a bad trigger will show how bad they are such as NYPD who had a strong shooter (and an instructor) still miss because of that shit trigger in their Glocks. And the magwell is for when you're under stress and hands are shaking. And for some it locks their hand on and more for this purpose than the speed reload. You must be the guy that never works out, because why stress your system....it's easier to just make everything easier. Let dumb down shooting. Make practice as easy as possible. Because shooting is too hard and I need to feel good about myself.....its easier to buy skill than actual work for it....LOL I'm guessing you are the guy standing in the middle of that picture? |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 3:54:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't own either, but from reading, the Wilson magazines are proprietary, less expensive, and more reliable. The Wilsons also have external extractors and no grip safety. People say they aren't "true" 2011s because of these differences. I believe the grip on the SFX is a little smaller, but it doesn't have changeable grips like the EDC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Has anyone here compared the Staccato to the Wilson EDC and SFX double stacks? I wanted to like Staccato enough to buy, but can't abide that huge plastic grip module on a JMB knock off. I'm hoping the Wilson has better grip ergos for me. I don't own either, but from reading, the Wilson magazines are proprietary, less expensive, and more reliable. The Wilsons also have external extractors and no grip safety. People say they aren't "true" 2011s because of these differences. I believe the grip on the SFX is a little smaller, but it doesn't have changeable grips like the EDC. They definitely are not 2011's which is a good thing in their case. They are built around 9mm so they are more compact in several places that a 2011 can't be because it's built around the long cartrides 45/10/38 Super. The SFX is thin almost as thin as a 1911 with standard wood grips. I wish more companies would do similar guns. I'd like to shoot one with an optic. They seem to sit the optic pretty high and I think that's because of the smaller slide and extractor placement. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 3:54:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Char would use a red Glock with a fancy trigger. Calling Glock Store:  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 4:03:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, but that's an excellent point in itself. I got my 150yd shot first time in competition. You got it first time with the Stacatto. I missed it twice with your Glock after having no problems with the closer targets. Could be a bunch of things who knows. Less velocity, different ammo, me not being as disciplined with the trigger, etc Past about 70 yards, I expect the ammo I was using to pattern horribly (at least by bullseye standards) out of any gun. You also aren't used to the grip or the trigger. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 4:04:15 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I should clarify that at the local level, they’re not common. At majors, they are common along with small steel at 25y I'm friends with guys that shoot pretty high level 3 gun and I've never noticed any really long targets on any of the videos they post on the gram. Maybe it happens but I don't notice them. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 4:09:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I wanna know this too. I actually dont have any of this custom work done to my Glock 45. I have a back plate with the gun's name laser engraved, but that $40 piece doesnt effect the performance in any way. I shot a USPSA classifier match yesterday. I did throw one shot because of a fucked up grip. I would have thrown that shot with any pistol. It was my second shot at a target, and I was shooting predictively. The other 83 rounds I fired yesterday were all As. I was running the stages at the speed of my vision. The only thing a Staccato could have gotten me in that context would be slightly faster splits than my functionally stock G45. There wasn't a single stage where the difference would have added up to a whole half second. Staccato's trigger does make it slightly easier to do an array of things I rarely do with a pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How does a $500 Glock become a $1500 Glock for carry? Take the optic out because that's the same. Also the light. If you want, replace the sights. There's $150 on the high end. Then what? Maybe a trigger job? What's the new Glock performance trigger cost, like less than $100? Dang. That $500 glock just became $750. Which is what, $2000 less than an entry level 2011 like a Staccato? Is it going to shoot as well as a Staccato? Nope. Is it going to make a difference in the hands of a mid-level trained guy? Nope. Yeah, I wanna know this too. I actually dont have any of this custom work done to my Glock 45. I have a back plate with the gun's name laser engraved, but that $40 piece doesnt effect the performance in any way. I shot a USPSA classifier match yesterday. I did throw one shot because of a fucked up grip. I would have thrown that shot with any pistol. It was my second shot at a target, and I was shooting predictively. The other 83 rounds I fired yesterday were all As. I was running the stages at the speed of my vision. The only thing a Staccato could have gotten me in that context would be slightly faster splits than my functionally stock G45. There wasn't a single stage where the difference would have added up to a whole half second. Staccato's trigger does make it slightly easier to do an array of things I rarely do with a pistol. I got second last week at a match on a classifier as the only revolver shooter there. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 4:15:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being a soured luddite is no way to go through life, especially when using false narratives just because you're already biasedly against any enhancements that makes a great shooter even better, and makes a weak shooter stronger. Pretty sure you take away my rifle swHoOtInG aIdS, I'd fall apart as well. But I'd also be left ineffective with just irons, against bad guys using optics. https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/3d435ea004fb02b5b7d391ede4dbe67e?impolicy=wcms_crop_resize&cropH=2000&cropW=2997&xPos=1&yPos=0&width=862&height=575 ^^ that's antifa, domestic terrorists. There's no such thing as a fair fight, weak or strong doesn't matter. What matters is using every edge possible that would put you in a superior position in winning over them. Which is also true for handguns. Your way is setting folks up for failure. Pure and simple. Even a strong shooter like Aaron Cowan that many here like to repeat verbatim, makes an excellent argument for using comps on his daily carry. A shit trigger is still a shit trigger. and really makes a difference between hitting and not hitting which when stress happens, a bad trigger will show how bad they are such as NYPD who had a strong shooter (and an instructor) still miss because of that shit trigger in their Glocks. And the magwell is for when you're under stress and hands are shaking. And for some it locks their hand on and more for this purpose than the speed reload. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well, it is difficult to practice what is being taught at classes with a SAA. Unless you are Cowboy Action Larping But people would rather put a comp on a 9mm instead learning recoil control Or put a light trigger on, instead learning a proper trigger press or a magwell instead of learning a proper reload. All shit that make shooting easier, but doesn't teach you to be a better shooter. Great shooters are going to shoot well even if you take away their shooting aids, Crap shooters fall apart as soon as you take them away Being a soured luddite is no way to go through life, especially when using false narratives just because you're already biasedly against any enhancements that makes a great shooter even better, and makes a weak shooter stronger. Pretty sure you take away my rifle swHoOtInG aIdS, I'd fall apart as well. But I'd also be left ineffective with just irons, against bad guys using optics. https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/3d435ea004fb02b5b7d391ede4dbe67e?impolicy=wcms_crop_resize&cropH=2000&cropW=2997&xPos=1&yPos=0&width=862&height=575 ^^ that's antifa, domestic terrorists. There's no such thing as a fair fight, weak or strong doesn't matter. What matters is using every edge possible that would put you in a superior position in winning over them. Which is also true for handguns. Your way is setting folks up for failure. Pure and simple. Even a strong shooter like Aaron Cowan that many here like to repeat verbatim, makes an excellent argument for using comps on his daily carry. A shit trigger is still a shit trigger. and really makes a difference between hitting and not hitting which when stress happens, a bad trigger will show how bad they are such as NYPD who had a strong shooter (and an instructor) still miss because of that shit trigger in their Glocks. And the magwell is for when you're under stress and hands are shaking. And for some it locks their hand on and more for this purpose than the speed reload. What if you're under stress and your hands aren't shaking? Let's stop being pussies |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 4:40:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You must be the guy that never works out, because why stress your system....it's easier to just make everything easier. Let dumb down shooting. Make practice as easy as possible. Because shooting is too hard and I need to feel good about myself.....its easier to buy skill than actual work for it....LOL I'm guessing you are the guy standing in the middle of that picture? So, you're that guy making excuses and assumptions for your biased opinions on what you think should be and shouldn't be done? Simple life advice here for you, life is hard. But it's harder when you're being stupid...deliberately. Your logic is quixotic, unrealistic with today's technology advancements. You want shooting to be harder and not smarter, make surviving a gunfight impractical and practice not worth it because of your handicapping impractical your way or the highway type of thinking. So why did you project yourself being unfit into me, anyway? Is that person in the middle also what you want to aspire to as well, since you projected that into me as well? Or were you using insults both times because it's what those on the losing end of arguments do in order to feel superior by trying to undermine and in vain? Nothing wrong with getting a Staccato to train with and even hookup. Nothing wrong with wanting a cheaper striker to hook up as well. And if one wants to run just a stock handgun too, that's fine indeed. But what's not good, not fine, and not cool is trying to force your impotent argument on to others because you do not have any best interests for us other than your own discombobulated agenda of how you think things should be. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 4:43:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Past about 70 yards, I expect the ammo I was using to pattern horribly (at least by bullseye standards) out of any gun. You also aren't used to the grip or the trigger. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yep, but that's an excellent point in itself. I got my 150yd shot first time in competition. You got it first time with the Stacatto. I missed it twice with your Glock after having no problems with the closer targets. Could be a bunch of things who knows. Less velocity, different ammo, me not being as disciplined with the trigger, etc Past about 70 yards, I expect the ammo I was using to pattern horribly (at least by bullseye standards) out of any gun. You also aren't used to the grip or the trigger. I'm using Speer Lawman 147gr for mine. I bought a bunch on sale. It supposedly has an almost identical ballistic pattern to the 147gr HST I carry. I haven't chrono'd it or anything though |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 4:57:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm using Speer Lawman 147gr for mine. I bought a bunch on sale. It supposedly has an almost identical ballistic pattern to the 147gr HST I carry. I haven't chrono'd it or anything though Most 147s start subsonic out of most handguns, thus never go transonic. You usually get the flattest shooting from 115s, and they (usually) don't go transonic until they are past 50 yards. Some people like the recoil impulse of most 124s the best, but they also go transonic around 30-40 yards depending on the load and the barrel length. While the bullets going transonic does open the cone of fire a little bit, unless you are shooting one of the sports that targets like the B8 are actually for, it doesn't matter much. You can just send a couple extras. That's one of the few changes I'm making for keystone next year: switching to whatever 147 gr. load groups the best in my G45. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 5:06:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most 147s start subsonic out of most handguns, thus never go transonic. You usually get the flattest shooting from 115s, and they (usually) don't go transonic until they are past 50 yards. Some people like the recoil impulse of most 124s the best, but they also go transonic around 30-40 yards depending on the load and the barrel length. While the bullets going transonic does open the cone of fire a little bit, unless you are shooting one of the sports that targets like the B8 are actually for, it doesn't matter much. You can just send a couple extras. That's one of the few changes I'm making for keystone next year: switching to whatever 147 gr. load groups the best in my G45. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm using Speer Lawman 147gr for mine. I bought a bunch on sale. It supposedly has an almost identical ballistic pattern to the 147gr HST I carry. I haven't chrono'd it or anything though Most 147s start subsonic out of most handguns, thus never go transonic. You usually get the flattest shooting from 115s, and they (usually) don't go transonic until they are past 50 yards. Some people like the recoil impulse of most 124s the best, but they also go transonic around 30-40 yards depending on the load and the barrel length. While the bullets going transonic does open the cone of fire a little bit, unless you are shooting one of the sports that targets like the B8 are actually for, it doesn't matter much. You can just send a couple extras. That's one of the few changes I'm making for keystone next year: switching to whatever 147 gr. load groups the best in my G45. A lot of GD fell for the +P meme. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 5:09:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of GD fell for the +P meme. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm using Speer Lawman 147gr for mine. I bought a bunch on sale. It supposedly has an almost identical ballistic pattern to the 147gr HST I carry. I haven't chrono'd it or anything though Most 147s start subsonic out of most handguns, thus never go transonic. You usually get the flattest shooting from 115s, and they (usually) don't go transonic until they are past 50 yards. Some people like the recoil impulse of most 124s the best, but they also go transonic around 30-40 yards depending on the load and the barrel length. While the bullets going transonic does open the cone of fire a little bit, unless you are shooting one of the sports that targets like the B8 are actually for, it doesn't matter much. You can just send a couple extras. That's one of the few changes I'm making for keystone next year: switching to whatever 147 gr. load groups the best in my G45. A lot of GD fell for the +P meme. I'll take 147gr ++++++++p for $100 Alex 147@1275gr HST is the tits |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 5:21:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote History[b] Nothing wrong with getting a Staccato to train with and even hookup. Nothing wrong with wanting a cheaper striker to hook up as well. And if one wants to run just a stock handgun too, that's fine indeed. But what's not good, not fine, and not cool is trying to force your impotent argument on to others because you do not have any best interests for us other than your own discombobulated agenda of how you think things should be. You're the one saying you need to buy $1500 of accessories for stock gun to take it to a class. It simple is not true. But you are trying to convince people it's true. Do you sell gun accessories? Is that your angle here? |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 5:30:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're the one saying you need to buy $1500 of accessories for stock gun to take it to a class. It simple is not true. But you are trying to convince people it's true. Do you sell gun accessories? Is that your angle here? Quote HistoryQuoted: [b] Nothing wrong with getting a Staccato to train with and even hookup. Nothing wrong with wanting a cheaper striker to hook up as well. And if one wants to run just a stock handgun too, that's fine indeed. But what's not good, not fine, and not cool is trying to force your impotent argument on to others because you do not have any best interests for us other than your own discombobulated agenda of how you think things should be. You're the one saying you need to buy $1500 of accessories for stock gun to take it to a class. It simple is not true. But you are trying to convince people it's true. Do you sell gun accessories? Is that your angle here? I'd bet $100 I can keep up in any class with a moon clipped .45 revolver. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 5:30:34 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're the one saying you need to buy $1500 of accessories for stock gun to take it to a class. It simple is not true. But you are trying to convince people it's true. Do you sell gun accessories? Is that your angle here? You're the one telling people what they only need, which is incorrect and disingenuous. If they are taking a gun to the class that they're going to be using, then train as you'd fight comes into play, which simply is true. But you are the one trying to convince others that it's not true. Do you sell classes that only allow stock guns? is this your angle here and why you're taking an internet serious interest in this? Or are you just a fudd? Because you're certainly coming off as one. Both? |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 5:32:46 PM EDT
[#50]
I kinda want one.
Maybe when I turn 40 in a couple years. |
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