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Link Posted: 6/12/2020 12:14:47 PM EST
[#1]
IF humans went extinct today, I think there would be traces in the geological record a million, or ten million years from now.  You would have to look for it, it wouldn't be obvious.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 12:39:00 PM EST
[#2]
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Quoted:


What if what we think as naturally occurring caves are man made?

Also, pretty sure the glaciers would have closed up most mines.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Mines should be detectable, especially deep hard rock mines.  

Nuclear waste should be detectable.


What if what we think as naturally occurring caves are man made?

Also, pretty sure the glaciers would have closed up most mines.

You guys are talking like the Earth and it's continents are in static locations. I think that in times that the author in the OP is talking about, Earth looked waaaay different and the land that we are on now was probably underwater.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 12:55:16 PM EST
[#3]
I doubt that anything approaching what we consider an industrial civilization existed prior to our own. I doubt it very much.

But, I can try to keep an open mind that something developed in the far distant past. Maybe not very high on the technological ladder but a more organized and agrarian society in a geographically small area. Disease, natural disaster, hostile nomadic bands, all could have destroyed such a proto civilization and leave very little if any trace. In fact, I'd be willing bet such a thing happened more than once and in more places before it finally took hold in the fertile crescent. But without evidence, it's just a fun little thought to play with.

Going deeper back, in time millions instead of tens of thousands of years and coming up with an industrial civilization is stretching that thought experiment a bit much I think. While it can be fun to imagine a T-Rex flying a fighter, or dinosarian descendants leaving earth to colonize the stars I really do get stuck on the aforementioned 10mm socket problem. I always envisioned spark plug analogs, but it's the same issue. Nowhere in any of the fossil beds, mines, canyons, wash outs, road beds, etc has anyone found them that I am aware of.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:00:16 PM EST
[#4]
The oldest hominids on record are about 7 million years old.  However, they were creatures as closely related to apes as they are to humans & not capable of making an advanced civilization.  There have been several branches from the hominid tree, but the only one still in existence is homo sapiens.  About 300,000 years ago homo sapiens branched from the hominid tree and were so successful that that is all that exists now.  They out-competed everyone else.  So if there was an advanced civilization, by our standards, it would have to be 300k years old or less.  300k years is nothing, nada, in geologic terms.  Any advanced civilization less than 300k years would have left major evidence that we would see today.

I'm not buying OP's thesis, but I will keep my mind open just in case.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:07:56 PM EST
[#5]
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The oldest hominids on record are about 7 million years old.  However, they were creatures as closely related to apes as they are to humans & not capable of making an advanced civilization.  There have been several branches from the hominid tree, but the only one still in existence is homo sapiens.  About 300,000 years ago homo sapiens branched from the hominid tree and were so successful that that is all that exists now.  They out-competed everyone else.  So if there was an advanced civilization, by our standards, it would have to be 300k years old or less.  300k years is nothing, nada, in geologic terms.  Any advanced civilization less than 300k years would have left major evidence that we would see today.

I'm not buying OP's thesis, but I will keep my mind open just in case.
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One nitpick.

Humans are apes
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:10:47 PM EST
[#6]
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The oldest hominids on record are about 7 million years old.  However, they were creatures as closely related to apes as they are to humans & not capable of making an advanced civilization.  There have been several branches from the hominid tree, but the only one still in existence is homo sapiens.  About 300,000 years ago homo sapiens branched from the hominid tree and were so successful that that is all that exists now.  They out-competed everyone else.  So if there was an advanced civilization, by our standards, it would have to be 300k years old or less.  300k years is nothing, nada, in geologic terms.  Any advanced civilization less than 300k years would have left major evidence that we would see today.

I'm not buying OP's thesis, but I will keep my mind open just in case.
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You believe humans evolved from apes?
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:17:58 PM EST
[#7]
"Would it be possible to detect an industrial civilization in the geological record?"

Sure.

On Mars.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:22:21 PM EST
[#8]
More like the Big Boss Man keeps his techno to keep the inferior lower class workers.....working for da bossman. Little to find other than mysterious disappearances.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:23:49 PM EST
[#9]
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You believe humans evolved from apes?
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Given the amount of shared DNA, I believe apes and modern humans shared common ancestors.  I'm not sure I would call the common ancestors apes or not.

Look at the fossil record of homo erectus and other early hominids.  There's a lot of common physiology as well.

<----not an archaeologist but knows a lot about it, and is an expert in the earth-sciences.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:24:34 PM EST
[#10]
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Basically it really looks like a nuclear war since we
really don't know of a natural process that can do
that. A nuclear war as a possibility is off the table
so lets just guess. Really current science process fails in
areas like this since it opens so many doors. Evolutionary
theory and Religion suddenly would have to make major
changes. Plus every crackpot  could make a new grand story
of everything. Who we are, how we should live, and who to
hate. Could just be natural but science has to proceed with a set
of possibilities off the table which complicates research. What
if some details look like they confirm the nuke war hypothesis.
Well those details have to be ignored even if eventually they
instead confirm the opposite.
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We don't know of a natural process yet, so concluding that it was an ancient nuclear war seems like preferring the fantastical to the mundane.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:27:11 PM EST
[#11]
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That's one of the issues. If the previous industrial society was operating in a different ecology, would the resulting metals have impurities at all?

Take a look at Jurassic Park, the scene where the Triceratops is down and being examined - because as the script and book both relate, it's lung tissue capacity is insufficient for earth's current atmospheric pressure of 14.5 psi. It's postulated that before a certain time when dinosaurs roamed the earth that a heavy overmantle existed in the troposphere or higher which largely contained ice and the result was that i sheltered earth from a number exterior radiological contaminants while maintaining air pressures of 30+ psi.

Then the Flood came, in which the "fountains of the deep" expulsed a high amount of - ? Consider the meteor which created the Yucatan impact - coming thru said mantle and opening it up to sudden depressurization, melting, and the resulting impact of millions of acre feet of water raining down on earth. For the most part, filling the oceans while also sweeping away a great deal of life and burying it under the waters.

Mt Saint Helens have been an interesting case in seeing the results and the highly accelerated development of what happens - coal, and oil.

There are already artifacts recovered and considered "anomalies" where metal objects are found made of almost pure isotopes which when dated are almost impossible to determine, but which the circumstances etc relate at least 10-15,000 years ago - and yet suffer little to no corrosion. That they were found at all in that strata is unexplainable, normal objects we make today won't last months in the same circumstances. If anything, bog iron does better - the original forged into "wrought" iron that has a fibrous content and which will always stretch rather than break.

While the paper proposes to discover traces of early industrial civilization we currently ignore or even cover it up - why the channels that would contain some kind of fluid in South America - installed upside down? As if they were not subject to gravity?

What we limit ourselves in researching these items is a tightly controlled and limited focus on how they relate to the physics we see around us now - rather than the physics others might have used to create them in the first place. If you can control the polarization of ion to make a gravity well and then use it to propel yourself thru the 3 D's as we know them, why can't you also create pure isotopes where the crystalline matrix is uncompromised by earthly inclusions? If the mantle did collapse and washed away previous civilization, then according to what previous land contours and coastlines would it have existed before, and deposited into?

We have all sorts of projections of what coastlines would look like if the seas rose, take enough water out of them to create a pressure vessel 350 miles up to contain our atmosphere, what would the globe look like then? With that picture, the put the continental plates back into their original configuration, and you might have some more discrete locations to search.

You may well find Atlantis. And, given the intent of the Flood, you may well regret what you find. What has been seen can't be unseen, same as the pyramids in Mexico where humans were sacrificed to satisfy belligerent gods.
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Reading your stuff is an interesting exercise.  
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:29:47 PM EST
[#12]
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radioactive isotopes
alloys
ceramics
organics (plastics)

All of those would have been found in a mine by now.
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There'd be fossilized baby dolls & shit (literally).
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:29:53 PM EST
[#13]
We'll find out after the next commercial break of Oak Island.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:32:19 PM EST
[#14]
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You are assuming that our current methods are the only methods. Perhaps they, if there actually was a "they", went in a completely different direction. Maybe they mastered alchemy or turned kudzu into cloth or food without producing the same type of waste products associated with modern industry.
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radioactive isotopes
alloys
ceramics
organics (plastics)

All of those would have been found in a mine by now.


You are assuming that our current methods are the only methods. Perhaps they, if there actually was a "they", went in a completely different direction. Maybe they mastered alchemy or turned kudzu into cloth or food without producing the same type of waste products associated with modern industry.

Okay, now you're just handwaving like those conveniently undetectable ancient African & native American super-state theories.

Not much different than the fundies' "God made the Earth & universe /look/ exactly like they would if they were billions of years old, and made sure there's no way to ever prove it!"

Unfalsifiable theories are fantasy.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:32:51 PM EST
[#15]
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Given my explanation, a coal mine. And anomalies are, but todays Junk Science represses them.  
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Would that be the case of the 1"x1"x1" cube of stainless steel found in coal in a mine way back before calibration blocks came into use?  Or the coal with fossils that included a modern shoeprint that included mechanical stitching on the soles?

If not a previous civilization I'd say signs of time travel.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:33:05 PM EST
[#16]
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Junk science
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This is some cultural Marxist claptrap at work.

Harkening back to the prefection of humanity, in harmony with the entirety of the world's creatures, until some catastrophic event happened that brought about racism, slavery, woman beating/ raping and imperialism.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:33:09 PM EST
[#17]
This will lead to......


WE
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:33:33 PM EST
[#18]
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Quoted:


What if what we think as naturally occurring caves are man made?

Also, pretty sure the glaciers would have closed up most mines.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Mines should be detectable, especially deep hard rock mines.  

Nuclear waste should be detectable.


What if what we think as naturally occurring caves are man made?

Also, pretty sure the glaciers would have closed up most mines.

Nature doesn't make straight lines, man does.

Kharn
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:34:26 PM EST
[#19]
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Quoted:
10 mm sockets
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the 10 mm vortex expanded and consumed the whole of a perfect humanity. Somehow the socket gods had become angry with whatever existed before us.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:35:17 PM EST
[#20]
Interesting if you've got three hours to kill.
Joe Rogan Experience #872 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:35:43 PM EST
[#21]
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Quoted:

Okay, now you're just handwaving like those conveniently undetectable ancient African & native American super-state theories.

Not much different than the fundies' "God made the Earth & universe /look/ exactly like they would if they were billions of years old, and made sure there's no way to ever prove it!"

Unfalsifiable theories are fantasy.
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"Black Panther" was a documentary.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:36:50 PM EST
[#22]
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Quoted:


Would that be the case of the 1"x1"x1" cube of stainless steel found in coal in a mine way back before calibration blocks came into use?  Or the coal with fossils that included a modern shoeprint that included mechanical stitching on the soles?

If not a previous civilization I'd say signs of time travel.
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And were is this ss cube and footprint now?

Outrageous claims require outrageous proof.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:41:23 PM EST
[#23]
We have identical high technology stone structures placed across the known world of an unknown origin. The ancient civilizations that are credited are simply the squatters who inherited the land from the original creators. No idea who actually made them, they are all made the same, and have features and details that are past our current knowledge of stonework.

There are thousand-ton rocks with scoops out of them like they were ice cream, with the stone having a small raised 'bump' at the end of the scoop just like the extra matter you get in a pint of vanilla after running a spoon through it. At one point we knew how to liquify/soften stone matter so that it could be manipulated to our liking.

I can't wait to hear what's underneath the ice in Greenland and Antarctica.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:43:22 PM EST
[#24]
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Quoted:
We have identical high technology stone structures placed across the known world of an unknown origin. The ancient civilizations that are credited are simply the squatters who inherited the land from the original creators. No idea who actually made them, they are all made the same, and have features and details that are past our current knowledge of stonework.

There are thousand-ton rocks with scoops out of them like they were ice cream, with the stone having a small raised 'bump' at the end of the scoop just like the extra matter you get in a pint of vanilla after running a spoon through it. At one point we knew how to liquify/soften stone matter so that it could be manipulated to our liking.

I can't wait to hear what's underneath the ice in Greenland and Antarctica.
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Post details of rocky road ice cream scoops.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:44:56 PM EST
[#25]
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Given the amount of shared DNA, I believe apes and modern humans shared common ancestors.  I'm not sure I would call the common ancestors apes or not.

Look at the fossil record of homo erectus and other early hominids.  There's a lot of common physiology as well.

<----not an archaeologist but knows a lot about it, and is an expert in the earth-sciences.
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You're on the right track

We have common ancestors with apes because we are apes.

Great ones if I do say so myself.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:45:03 PM EST
[#26]
Sometimes I wonder how many reboots and possible advanced civilizations there have been on Earth before us.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:49:10 PM EST
[#27]
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Sometimes I wonder how many reboots and possible advanced civilizations there have been on Earth before us.
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I think this was the basis for the documentary Alien: Prometheus.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:49:49 PM EST
[#28]
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:50:17 PM EST
[#29]
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There's a lot we don't know about pre-history.

Up until a few years ago, the ancient Finnish Empire was considered a myth, but these days we know better.

https://i.imgur.com/bFPbqsr.jpg
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The Finno-Korean Hyperwar is insane
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:54:14 PM EST
[#30]
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The Sphinx is carved out of bedrock.

Bedrock is pretty old.
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The Giza Plateau sits on bedrock and the water damage on the Sphinx is indicative that it has been around AT LEAST since the region was a wet semi-tropical climate. There's no doubt the head was re-carved at least once and it was most likely a lion overall.


Link Posted: 6/12/2020 1:57:22 PM EST
[#31]
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Quoted:
We don't know shit about fuck.

We think we know everything, but that's our own ego.
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You don't know fuck about shit.

But we do know shit about fuck.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:02:17 PM EST
[#32]
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Quoted:

Post details of rocky road ice cream scoops.
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This kind of stuff. There are lots of videos/pics of this exact technique across the world.


Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:08:03 PM EST
[#33]
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Is that supposed to be beyond our current knowledge of stonework?
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:09:46 PM EST
[#34]
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Quoted:
Is that supposed to be beyond our current knowledge of stonework?
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Is that supposed to be beyond our current knowledge of stonework?


it is supposed to be beyond those civilization's knowledge of stonework when they made that stonework.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:13:52 PM EST
[#35]
Of course it would be detectable. I have some superb fossil fish specimens from the Green River formation in Wyoming. This is an 18 inch fossil layer that represents about 4,000 years of deposition from the Eocene.

The human race is on a trajectory to go extinct. Everything about us will turn into dust and return to mother earth. All it will take is a few million years to remove all traces of us. And then all that will be left of us is a thin fossil layer, that can be studied by alien archaeologists.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:16:36 PM EST
[#36]
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I’m a Nuclear Engineer.  Tell me again about isotopes and my scientific illiteracy?  Oh yeah, I’m not.

One guy, one unreviewed paper.  Referencing his own papers a bunch of times.  Sorry, do you know how conferences work?  Pay your money, and cranks can get stuff submitted.  Wake me when a reputable journal gets his stuff past peer review.  @VaultBoy
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:20:40 PM EST
[#37]
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I can't wait to hear what's underneath the ice in Greenland and Antarctica.
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I think thats the last biggest surprise to be discovered. After all, a bunch of important dignitaries even the pope went down there to see something.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:29:26 PM EST
[#38]
I have seen estimated that the Sphinx could be 12,000 years old putting it in the wet period in North Africa.  Could be interesting what is buried beneath 1.8 million square miles of desert and eroded by 6,000 years or more of blowing sand.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:31:08 PM EST
[#39]
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:36:44 PM EST
[#40]
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Doesn’t count unless the videos are narrated by Leonard Nimoy
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:42:04 PM EST
[#41]
Subduction is the reason we'll never see evidence of advanced civilizations of the past.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:44:52 PM EST
[#42]
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it is supposed to be beyond those civilization's knowledge of stonework when they made that stonework.
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If the only way to make holes in rocks is to liquefy it and scoop it out, then I guess that would be beyond their knowledge of stonework.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:49:58 PM EST
[#43]
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What about out of place artifacts like the London Hammer and springs etc. Inside rocks?

There really can't be any other explanation.
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Sure there is.   They're either fakes or were mishandled in such a way that they are mistaken about their origins.  The simple explanation is likely the correct one.  Occam had this razor, see?
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:51:57 PM EST
[#44]
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I believe there is a chance a civilization more advanced than we give credit for (think Iron Age) may have been around thousands of years prior to what we currently document.

The consistency in architecture (stone blocks) between different continents is staggering.  There was contact between ancient people.  We can't figure out how they made certain stone structures, yet multiple civilizations thousands of miles apart independently developed the same method?  Okay.
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Not implausible.  Laws of nature, whether physics, geology, man's nature, etc. does not really change.  There may well be a reason why a particular method was independently arrived at for doing a particular activity.  Trial, error, man's reasoning, and simply the nature of the work and the materials being constant may have all led to men in various places figuring out some truth about how to do that kind of work without having to have various civilizations communicate it to one another.  

And my understanding is that we have figured out a good bit regarding how they constructed things.

I do agree that it's possible for relatively advanced (still primitive by our standards) civilizations rose and fell and are lost to history, although I think there would be something left behind in most cases.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:56:09 PM EST
[#45]
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Quoted:

And were is this ss cube and footprint now?

Outrageous claims require outrageous proof.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Would that be the case of the 1"x1"x1" cube of stainless steel found in coal in a mine way back before calibration blocks came into use?  Or the coal with fossils that included a modern shoeprint that included mechanical stitching on the soles?

If not a previous civilization I'd say signs of time travel.

And were is this ss cube and footprint now?

Outrageous claims require outrageous proof.



The part in red.  I mean, it's not like some mischievous wag could not have planted it there as a gag.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 2:59:11 PM EST
[#46]
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I like the example of Troy, it was a myth, till someone found it.    Even now we are finding traces of civilization we didn't know existed or their extent through LIDAR and such tech.

I have always wondered where Rome would be if it hadn't collapsed and survived till now?
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Imagine if Rome had discovered electricity early in the Republic.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 3:05:05 PM EST
[#47]
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How is that inconsistent with ancient stone carving technologies and the effects of weathering?
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 3:13:58 PM EST
[#48]
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How is that inconsistent with ancient stone carving technologies and the effects of weathering?
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I don’t think he’s heard about hand-grinding grain....

You have a bunch of people doing that next to each other, something like that would result.  Time and effort can change a lot of things.
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 3:16:33 PM EST
[#49]
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I like the example of Troy, it was a myth, till someone found it.    Even now we are finding traces of civilization we didn't know existed or their extent through LIDAR and such tech.

I have always wondered where Rome would be if it hadn't collapsed and survived till now?
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Heard of Byzantium?  We have records of where Rome would’ve been if it didn’t collapse until the 15th Century.  Because it didn’t.  The Empire just abandoned Rome.  Didn’t advance measurably beyond Europe.

People don’t think history be like it is...
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 3:17:08 PM EST
[#50]
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Are you citing a single paper as proof that it really can't be something else? If that were true, different people would arrive at the same hypothesis independently.
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Are you citing a single paper as proof that it really can't be something else? If that were true, different people would arrive at the same hypothesis independently.


This isn't the only paper on it. It's It's well-researched. It's obviously an uncomfortable subject to address, and is the type of uncomfortable research that destroys careers.

Regardless, xenon 129 is a product of fission, and the possibility of it coming from a natural reaction is addressed in the research and is impossible. The high amount of xe129 and the presence of other indicators shows it to be the product of at least two enormous nuclear explosions estimated to have taken place approximately 500 million years ago.

We use the presence of xe129 to monitor other nations nuclear testing.

Those are the facts, what caused the explosions is another matter. But they don't occur naturally.
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