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Posted: 1/14/2020 9:51:10 PM EST
[#1]
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Posted: 1/14/2020 9:57:02 PM EST
[#2]
All you need for a mobility kill on an Abrams or BFV is a 3 foot section of rebar, tanker bar, balloons filled with paint....it's not rocket science.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 9:59:55 PM EST
[#3]
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Posted: 1/14/2020 10:02:01 PM EST
[#4]
One of my stupid coworkers said that crap me to as well. I said something to the effect if he remembers how Vietnam went. He quickly shut up and agreed with me.
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Posted: 1/14/2020 10:04:20 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of my stupid coworkers said that crap me to as well. I said something to the effect if he remembers how Vietnam went. He quickly shut up and agreed with me. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 10:06:05 PM EST
[#6]
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Posted: 1/14/2020 10:14:12 PM EST
[#7]
Quote History
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Posted: 1/14/2020 10:14:56 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: History is absolutely filled with examples of sucsessful asymmetric warfare. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 10:23:27 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gorilla tactics are a mother fucker to conventional forces Use the correct word, please. It lends credibility to your argument. Unless you meant "gorilla," which reminds me of the American Tourister commercial from the early 1970s.  AMERICAN TOURISTER - The Gorilla Commercial 1971 
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Posted: 1/14/2020 10:35:09 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dead cop. Really? dynamic alphabet roof entry team being shot up by the dynamic alphabet room entry team |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 10:38:44 PM EST
[#11]
Quoted:
I've heard this crap multiple times in recent years and it drives me absolutely crazy. Had a co-worker (liberal as hell) tell me this exact thing the other day at work - "gun owners think they can defeat anything with a rifle - how effective is that rifle going to be against tanks and aircraft?" I reminded her of all the insurgencies throughout history where poor farmers with only small arms kept major military powers on their toes for years and years. I told her, "the last time I checked, the Taliban doesn't have tanks or aircraft either - they wear rags, have little to no transportation, and still (with only small arms) - they haven't been defeated or given up." She had no response to that and walked away. Anyone else encounter this bullshit logic from the left? It all boils down to popular support. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 11:00:20 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If my time in Texas is had taught me anything it’s that the answer is....well....Texas. 
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Posted: 1/15/2020 9:08:32 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dead cop. Really? And he was very much alive at the time of the photo. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 9:15:24 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://i.postimg.cc/HxcyyxMH/gorgon-stare-image01.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/dQCCQhvj/NG-hatchet-dispensers.jpg On a long enough timeline, the arc of history bends away from human shooters. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 9:28:17 AM EST
[#15]
My answer is always the same:
They don't send an F-22 to your door at 3am to round you up. They send some poor schmuck with an AR15. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 9:36:40 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fact that some people are comfortable with the thought of their government having the wherewithal to use tanks and aircraft against their citizenry, and in fact are more comfortable with that than they are with the thought of you being armed, tells you all you need to know about them. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 9:53:57 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That drone pilot has to go home eventually. So does the guy making his food. His parents live near one of us. Maybe his kids go to school with one of ours. His aim better not be too good. This ain't Afghanistan and we aren't random strangers who he'll never see again once he goes home. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: https://i.postimg.cc/HxcyyxMH/gorgon-stare-image01.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/dQCCQhvj/NG-hatchet-dispensers.jpg On a long enough timeline, the arc of history bends away from human shooters. This is an interesting article.....looks like unrepentant deplorables from the south tend to dominate our military service numbers. Who'd a thunk it. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 9:56:53 AM EST
[#18]
Two reasons. They have to get fuel and food sometime and a lot of the tanks and planes will be on my side.
You think all of them are magically going to land on the “Kill citizens” side. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 9:59:14 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot of good points ITT, this is not one of them. Killing innocent women and children is something the bad guys do, not true Americans. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They might be worthless against air and armor...but they're damn effective against their wife and kids. Curtis Lemay says otherwise. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 10:02:24 AM EST
[#20]
I have found that people that use that ‘argument’ are only trying to mock or belittle. They have absolutely zero interest in civil discourse.
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Posted: 1/15/2020 10:04:08 AM EST
[#21]
"Your AR-15 is worthless against tanks and aircraft" is a supposition that she has yet to prove.
What does she base her assessment upon? A careful analysis of the role of small arms in conflict over say the last 75-years or her feelz based on watching MSNB-hee-haw and reading the WaPo? |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 10:05:19 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have found that people that use that ‘argument’ are only trying to mock or belittle. They have absolutely zero interest in civil discourse. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 10:09:36 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Your AR-15 is worthless against tanks and aircraft" is a supposition that she has yet to prove. What does she base her assessment upon? A careful analysis of the role of small arms in conflict over say the last 75-years or her feelz based on watching MSNB-hee-haw and reading the WaPo? |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 11:13:50 AM EST
[#24]
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Posted: 1/15/2020 11:52:41 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We beat them at Saratoga before the French decided to help. They waited until they saw we could win it. England realistically had no clear path to victory. A long, expensive unpopular war over some godforsaken continent half a world away.. with ages old enemies right next door just watching and waiting to take advantage.. not many have the stomach for a protracted fight like that. To be honest, I'm surprised they did for as long as they did. Eta, this argument fascinates me, as most leftists have a third grade understanding of how things work in the real world. They have no idea how complicated, expensive and time consuming maintenance, logistics, training and things of that nature are. They think they can snap their fingers and the police and military will do their bidding, indefinitely, and not give a thought to the things mentioned above. The government wouldn't have to just worry about bubba red-stater with his ar15, they'd have to worry about literally everything. military/police defectors and saboteurs, those who stay and "work" for them but are sabotaging things in the background. All the soft targets out there.. power relays/stations , dams, bridges, water treatment, farms, crops, manufacturing facilities, ports, warehouses/storage.. all would be up for grabs. How are they going to protect it all? They can't. If people were motivated enough to really be pissed at the government and wanted to do some damage, they could. How would the govt protect all of those things, and feed/manage their hordes of loyal "subjects" in the big cities? Many would suffer and die, and guess who the big city survivors would blame along with bubba? talk about zero sum game.. sheesh. And that stuff is only a fraction of what is possible. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 2:31:01 PM EST
[#26]
Obviously our government has gotten to the point where it no longer listens to Machiavelli...….as if any of them are that well read in the first place.
“He who becomes a Prince through the favour of the people should always keep on good terms with them; which it is easy for him to do, since all they ask is not to be oppressed” ? Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince “Men sooner forget the death of their father than the loss of their patrimony” ? Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince “But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you.” ? Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 2:41:12 PM EST
[#27]
I would say they are correct.
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Posted: 1/15/2020 3:32:00 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Logistics are a motherfucker. A long, expensive unpopular war over some godforsaken continent half a world away.. with ages old enemies right next door just watching and waiting to take advantage.. not many have the stomach for a protracted fight like that. To be honest, I'm surprised they did for as long as they did. Eta, this argument fascinates me, as most leftists have a third grade understanding of how things work in the real world. They have no idea how complicated, expensive and time consuming maintenance, logistics, training and things of that nature are. They think they can snap their fingers and the police and military will do their bidding, indefinitely, and not give a thought to the things mentioned above. The government wouldn't have to just worry about bubba red-stater with his ar15, they'd have to worry about literally everything. military/police defectors and saboteurs, those who stay and "work" for them but are sabotaging things in the background. All the soft targets out there.. power relays/stations , dams, bridges, water treatment, farms, crops, manufacturing facilities, ports, warehouses/storage.. all would be up for grabs. How are they going to protect it all? They can't. If people were motivated enough to really be pissed at the government and wanted to do some damage, they could. How would the govt protect all of those things, and feed/manage their hordes of loyal "subjects" in the big cities? Many would suffer and die, and guess who the big city survivors would blame along with bubba? talk about zero sum game.. sheesh. And that stuff is only a fraction of what is possible. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 3:52:32 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Correct... A simple, “I pray we never find out” says it all without saying anything and gives plenty of coverage should she run to HR or a judge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Its really not worth the argument or protentional red flag Those people have their minds made up just the same as we do For "normals" or moderates I'd argue the utility of a rifle for HD or minor SHTF situations. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 3:56:56 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Revolution didn't start in 1775. It started in the hearts and minds of the people decades prior to the first shots ever being fired. I see nothing remotely close to that necessary revolution of mindset occurring with the population at large. Yes, we have a Constitution. We have a Bill of Rights. So? Most Americans don't give a fuck about the Constitution or Bill of Rights. I wouldn't sell modern Americans short. There hasn't been much reason to think we would have revolution, we had fair elections and we thought FBI et al were basically honest and working for American security. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 3:58:13 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dead cop. Really? |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 4:19:45 PM EST
[#32]
Now I'm not advocating violence here by any means. Far from it. But it's fairly well known in circles that think about things like insurgency and counter-insurgency if you want to really lay the hammer down on the locals you just go after their local government a wee bit. Turn up the heat and all of a sudden the situation becomes much more malleable. You just have to be the guy who can keep "those other guys" from getting to them while you remain perilously close to them, their immediate family, their extended family, and anything else they hold dear. All politics is local.
What is happening now is local politicians are starting to see the score. It's only a matter of time until a leftist decides to move to political violence. They openly teach it on college campuses. I had classes in doing it back in the 80's, with the admonition that you'll wind up strapped to a metal bed spring hooked up to a battery charger if you try it. But leftists tend to ignore the lessons of history. 
I can remember a time in this country when it was not safe for government men to go up some hills and hollers. We're not talking about some philosophical argument over property rights or something. There were hillbillies who would flat out murder them with no hesitation. It took several generations of welfare and drug abuse to nip that one in the bud. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 4:46:28 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Logistics are a motherfucker. A long, expensive unpopular war over some godforsaken continent half a world away.. with ages old enemies right next door just watching and waiting to take advantage.. not many have the stomach for a protracted fight like that. To be honest, I'm surprised they did for as long as they did. Eta, this argument fascinates me, as most leftists have a third grade understanding of how things work in the real world. They have no idea how complicated, expensive and time consuming maintenance, logistics, training and things of that nature are. They think they can snap their fingers and the police and military will do their bidding, indefinitely, and not give a thought to the things mentioned above. The government wouldn't have to just worry about bubba red-stater with his ar15, they'd have to worry about literally everything. military/police defectors and saboteurs, those who stay and "work" for them but are sabotaging things in the background. All the soft targets out there.. power relays/stations , dams, bridges, water treatment, farms, crops, manufacturing facilities, ports, warehouses/storage.. all would be up for grabs. How are they going to protect it all? They can't. If people were motivated enough to really be pissed at the government and wanted to do some damage, they could. How would the govt protect all of those things, and feed/manage their hordes of loyal "subjects" in the big cities? Many would suffer and die, and guess who the big city survivors would blame along with bubba? talk about zero sum game.. sheesh. And that stuff is only a fraction of what is possible. In the event of a widescale uprising it is game over for those in power. It seems to me the game is for them to keep a cap on it using the secret police orgs. That's "their military". When it gets too large for the secret police, they lose. But in the early stages they have a huge advantage. Military and tanks is really the wrong discussion. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 4:50:52 PM EST
[#34]
"gun owners think they can defeat anything with a rifle - how effective is that rifle going to be against tanks and aircraft?"
It doesn't have to be effective against tanks and aircraft, it just has to be effective against the back of a congressman's head. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 5:18:37 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I kinda think a lot of these people think it's just gonna be a bunch of fat guys standing out in the middle of Kansas facing down tanks and getting mowed down while they cheer on the military. The gun banners I've talked to have no concept of what would really happen, their default is always "You can't take on a tank or bomber with your gun!" |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 5:19:59 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or a bunch of Bundy supporters with lever action rifle on a bridge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And your swat stacks are ineffective against an inert claymore filled with tannerite and ball bearings set to detonate by a shotgun shell tripwire. Or so I've read on the interwebs. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 5:51:44 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Revolution didn't start in 1775. It started in the hearts and minds of the people decades prior to the first shots ever being fired. I see nothing remotely close to that necessary revolution of mindset occurring with the population at large. Yes, we have a Constitution. We have a Bill of Rights. So? Most Americans don't give a fuck about the Constitution or Bill of Rights. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Maybe not yet. But if AMERICA does fight against a TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT. There will be. There will be new founding fathers, new patriots that will go down in history. For fighting to uphold the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. No matter what the Left says. AMERICA will never SURRENDER it's freedom. Especially to elected representatives we put in office. Do not ever underestimate the resolve of Americans when they have no choice and are pushed into fighting for something they believe in so much. They are willing to die for it. To even believe there are no patriots today is ignorant. Just look around you. It always amazes me. When people like you say things like that. No not all AMERICANS are patriotic enough or believe in anything worth fighting for or dying for. They want others to fight and die for them. People will say AMERICANS are fat and lazy and will just surrender their rights without a fight. Will surrender their guns,freedom and religion. You comment is a prime example of that. There were people who said the samething in 1775. Good thing those fat and lazy people, farmers, thieves, fathers and sons did not listen to those. Saying the samething you are. There would have never been a Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, John Hancock or anyone else. We'd be flying the British flag today. Oh and they fought for the exact samething we are upset with today. Taxes, regulation and disarming AMERICA. But there's a hugh difference today as compared to then. To day we actually have a CONSTITUTION and the BILL OF RIGHTS to fight for. Because these treasonous TRAITOROUS LEFT WING SOCIALIST EXTREMISTS ELECTED POLITICAL LEADERS want to destroy it. Want to regulate something they have zero RIGHTS to touch. A document that acknowledges and recognizes our freedoms. Not grant them. I see nothing remotely close to that necessary revolution of mindset occurring with the population at large. Yes, we have a Constitution. We have a Bill of Rights. So? Most Americans don't give a fuck about the Constitution or Bill of Rights. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 5:58:31 PM EST
[#38]
wikipedia:
"In North Africa, in the fifteen months before Stirling's capture, the SAS had destroyed over 250 aircraft on the ground, dozens of supply dumps, wrecked railways and telecommunications, and had put hundreds of enemy vehicles out of action." The SAS destroyed more airplanes on the ground with small teams than fighters or anti-aircraft took down. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 6:02:11 PM EST
[#39]
Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons.
The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized. The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles. —?Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle ----------------------------------------------- "Gun controls would not work in America ... legal controls ought to support, not replace, self-control." - Thomas S. Szasz, Professor of Psychiatry at SUNY Science Center -------------------------------------------------- "Cultural conditions, not gun laws, are the most important factors in a nation's crime rate. Young adults in Washington D.C. are subject to strict gun control, but no social control, and they commit a staggering amount of crime. Young adults in Zurich are subject to minimal gun control, but strict social control, and they commit almost no violent crime." - David B. Kopel, NYC District Atty. & Policy Analyst at Cato Institute |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 6:07:08 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For real. I have been training so hard in the 1MOA all day challenge that I can totally shoot down an ICBM. Stupid fucks thinking my AR15 can't stop a nucular missile. /s Some of you are so out of touch with reality that I understand why people demand qualifications to purchase a firearm. There was a time when this and other forums self policed enough to make it plausible for gun owners to be seen as rational actors. Those days are long gone. We all look fucking nuts now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: A nuclear device is a relatively fragile and complicated piece of technology. A bullet in any number of places will disrupt it and prevent it from hitting critical mass. Some of you are so out of touch with reality that I understand why people demand qualifications to purchase a firearm. There was a time when this and other forums self policed enough to make it plausible for gun owners to be seen as rational actors. Those days are long gone. We all look fucking nuts now. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 6:20:13 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If a U.S. president did decide to turn the military on Americans in large scale, there would likely be mass desertions-particularly among combat arms personnel, as they tend to be conservative leaning. Sure, the Army would still have a bunch of supply sergeants and personnel clerks, but they aren't going to be doing shit. Of course, any of us who have served knew combat arms folks who leaned left. So, yeah, those people might be willing to stack up on an American's house, or drive an Abrams down Main Street. But, there won't be many of them. |
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