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Posted: 8/13/2023 7:35:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back in 2016, he Navy's Blue Angels lost a plane and pilot in a crash during practice for an air show in Smyrna, TN. The pilot rode the plane into the ground, crashing into a field, rather than nearby apartments. No, he didn't heroically stay with the aircraft so that it didn't hit apartments. Not to sound rude, or to put any shade on the pilot, but the whole "rode it in so it wouldn't hit (insert thing here)" just isn't part of the decisionmaking process in an emergency. He attempted to eject well outside the survivable ejection minimums. https://news.usni.org/2016/09/16/navy-investigation-concludes-fatal-blue-angels-crash-caused-pilot-error |
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Posted: 8/13/2023 7:44:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Before it took off
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Posted: 8/13/2023 7:57:33 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 8/13/2023 8:13:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know anything except by watching at 0.5x speed, but I don't think it was the engine. As another poster mentioned, it might have been a charge to get the seat away from the rear-seater, or (and this is my theory) it might have been a charge to get the entire canopy off, before both ejection seats fire (still also back then front after a delay). Do the seats have to have anything except a drag chute to pull them away from the pilot?  I'm not familiar with old Soviet jets, but old USAF jets had a "seat kicker", which was a wide strap that hugged the contours of the ejection seat pan and seat back. The pilot's body/parachute was pressed against it in normal flight. After ejection, the strap rapidly tightened between the top of the seat and the forward edge of the pan, forcing the pilot's body away from the seat. |
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Posted: 8/13/2023 8:48:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back in 2016, he Navy's Blue Angels lost a plane and pilot in a crash during practice for an air show in Smyrna, TN. The pilot rode the plane into the ground, crashing into a field, rather than nearby apartments. Not all aviation crashes are created equally. Let’s wait for more information before we condemn the pilot. |
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Posted: 8/13/2023 8:51:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, he didn't heroically stay with the aircraft so that it didn't hit apartments. Not to sound rude, or to put any shade on the pilot, but the whole "rode it in so it wouldn't hit (insert thing here)" just isn't part of the decisionmaking process in an emergency. He attempted to eject well outside the survivable ejection minimums. https://news.usni.org/2016/09/16/navy-investigation-concludes-fatal-blue-angels-crash-caused-pilot-error Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Back in 2016, he Navy's Blue Angels lost a plane and pilot in a crash during practice for an air show in Smyrna, TN. The pilot rode the plane into the ground, crashing into a field, rather than nearby apartments. No, he didn't heroically stay with the aircraft so that it didn't hit apartments. Not to sound rude, or to put any shade on the pilot, but the whole "rode it in so it wouldn't hit (insert thing here)" just isn't part of the decisionmaking process in an emergency. He attempted to eject well outside the survivable ejection minimums. https://news.usni.org/2016/09/16/navy-investigation-concludes-fatal-blue-angels-crash-caused-pilot-error I was going off a, what, 7 year, memory of what I read in the local papers. |
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Posted: 8/13/2023 8:52:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several years ago an F18 crashed from losing both engines right after take off from Oceana in Virginia Beach. Crashed right into an apartment complex, both pilots ejected. It’s a miracle no one was killed. Hopefully this will be the same. My daughter lived in an apartment one block away from that. We knew an older couple that lived in the apartment building where it crashed. They were home. They didn't realize what had happened until they looked out their ground floor kitchen window, and saw the aircraft in flames just outside. As they were leaving, they looked at their patio door, and their vinyl vertical blinds were melting. Yikes. Hardly made the news which I found odd. |
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Posted: 8/13/2023 9:05:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My daughter lived in an apartment one block away from that. We knew an older couple that lived in the apartment building where it crashed. They were home. They didn't realize what had happened until they looked out their ground floor kitchen window, and saw the aircraft in flames just outside. As they were leaving, they looked at their patio door, and their vinyl vertical blinds were melting. Yikes. Hardly made the news which I found odd. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Several years ago an F18 crashed from losing both engines right after take off from Oceana in Virginia Beach. Crashed right into an apartment complex, both pilots ejected. It’s a miracle no one was killed. Hopefully this will be the same. My daughter lived in an apartment one block away from that. We knew an older couple that lived in the apartment building where it crashed. They were home. They didn't realize what had happened until they looked out their ground floor kitchen window, and saw the aircraft in flames just outside. As they were leaving, they looked at their patio door, and their vinyl vertical blinds were melting. Yikes. Hardly made the news which I found odd. Small world. A friend of ours from church lives in an apartment about 1000 feet away from impact. |
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Posted: 8/13/2023 9:09:23 PM EDT
[#9]
 Mig 23 Ejection Thunder Over Michigan Airshow 13 Aug 2023 |
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Posted: 8/13/2023 9:17:09 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 8/13/2023 9:21:57 PM EDT
[#11]
I just got home from this show. That was one of the most surreal things I have ever witnessed. My son and I have been going to Thunder Over Michigan for the past 3 years and I never expected that.
2 F-35's had taken off earlier in the show, and when the Mig took off the announcer made some comments alluding to the Mig and F-35's were going to have some kind of mock dog fight. As the Mig was airborne, it banked left to get into the show area. I felt like something was definitely off because it was losing altitude instead of gaining, but thought maybe it was part of the act with the F-35's. I saw the two flashes from the ejections, but for a split second thought maybe they were popping flares as part of the dog fight act but then immediately realized what had happened. I watched the plane go behind a tree line and split second later huge fireball. I would have thought for sure those guys wouldn't have had enough altitude for the chutes, but appears they are fine. On the way out we saw all of the emergency crew at the apartment, the airport had actually sent their airfield firetruck over there. At the time passing by in the car we didn't realize that was where the crash had happened, but now that I'm home and seeing pics its evident. To me it looked like the fireball was on the far south end of the airfield. I can't believe no one on the ground was hurt, very thankful. My son is totally unfazed. Anyway, Ill be curious to know what happened there. My son and I watched a couple of vids about the plane and pilot and he is an experienced guy. Former Navy A-7 aviator and current commercial pilot on a 737 I believe. I believe this was their first year on the airshow circuit with the Mig. |
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Posted: 8/13/2023 11:31:33 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 8/14/2023 12:31:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back in 2016, he Navy's Blue Angels lost a plane and pilot in a crash during practice for an air show in Smyrna, TN. The pilot rode the plane into the ground, crashing into a field, rather than nearby apartments. I was in town when that happened.  I think there is a reason why we still have "rules of the air" and "rules of the sea"; it's a human recognition that the forces of nature are much, much bigger and more powerful than any one of us individually, and that those of us who are "masters" of the sky or sea can be brought down at any moment, and for any reason. So IMO it is a testament to the character of those folks who steer their planes or drive their ships to safer crash sites during emergencies. It is their inherent recognition that they were permitted to defy gravity and certain other natural laws for a period of time, and that they got to enjoy all the highs and lows of human experience, due to the many extremely admirable efforts from us mere mortals on the ground...and yet in exchange they also realize that their last obligation is to us...the other regular human beings on the ground. It's the most humble human thing you can do under such circumstances. Pilots ARE smart. And WSOs ARE smart. And Plane Captains ARE smart. And everybody else that launched that plane, or sent that sub out of port. Anyway. I am glad that the pilots survived. I am glad that no one was hurt on the ground. I hope that the public doesn't allow "the powers that be" to clip anybody else' wings: this is America god dammit, where you CAN buy and fly any airplane that you choose, if you want too and can pay the fuel bill! Aviation inspires people. It sometimes offer a cautionary tale, such as today. But we don't send all the horses to the glue factory, just because somebody got thrown off a horse at some time or another. I think most of you guys get me. I honestly fucking HATE horses (turning money into horseshit), but if that imagery doesn't speak to you on some level...then I start to wonder if you have a soul. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 12:35:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasnt this Prayers out. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 12:35:56 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, he didn't heroically stay with the aircraft so that it didn't hit apartments. Not to sound rude, or to put any shade on the pilot, but the whole "rode it in so it wouldn't hit (insert thing here)" just isn't part of the decisionmaking process in an emergency. He attempted to eject well outside the survivable ejection minimums. https://news.usni.org/2016/09/16/navy-investigation-concludes-fatal-blue-angels-crash-caused-pilot-error Ok, well, then, that's just like your opinion, man.  And you're well more qualified than me to know, but this is another aspect that the public would rather just not know about. Nature and physics is scary. You might have a bird strike, or you might have a technical fault, or you might discover some weird edge case of natural phenomena previously unknown to science (or that aircraft).
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Posted: 8/14/2023 12:45:03 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 8/14/2023 12:55:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ??? Mig 23= 1 engine ( accident aircraft) Mig 29= 2 engines. Sorry, my post is full of fuck and fail. I fat-fingered MiG-23 into MiG-29. Don't ask me how the fuck I did that. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:00:55 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryYou should have posted "Here's the blancolirio video on the crash". |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:11:55 AM EDT
[#19]
https://www.armedconflicts.com/SOV-Mikojan-Gurevic-KM-1-KM-1M-t48616
KM-1 seat ejection sequence: 1) The pilot has a folded helmet plate and legs locked in the stirrups on the footrests, the initiation handles of the ejection seat are pulled (the pilot is instructed to keep his hands on the ejection handrails). 2) The KPA-4 timer is activated, the main lashing straps are tightened, the throw-in limiters are lowered by hand, the suit is pressurized, the timer sends a command to start the pyrotechnic overlay ejection system (if not dropped, the signal is repeated and ejection blocked). 3) The cockpit cover (canopy) is discarded and the pyrocartridge of the seat ejection system is ignited, while the seat leaves the cockpit with the development of the telescopic tube (quick clamps are disconnected and the power supply and oxygen system are transferred to autonomous systems integrated in the seat. 4) The pyrocartridge has burned out and the main stabilizing parachute opens. If it does not open, the backup stabilization parachute opens. 5) The seat is stabilized and braked to a safe speed. The main lashing straps are released and the pilot detaches himself from the seat with a parachute case on his back and emergency equipment from the headrest and the seat tub suspended on a cable below him. 6) The pilot's personal parachute opens automatically (opening of the reserve parachute in case the main parachute is not developed or opened). Seat parameters in terms of height and speed of ejection: (Ejection speed/ejection height) 0-270km/h/0 m 270-600km/h/100 m & gt; 600km/h 500 m |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:17:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 It was a boat ramp, so he’s probably just drunk. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:25:41 AM EDT
[#21]
FAA Order 8130.2J - Airworthiness Certification of Aircraft
f. Ejection Seats. (1) An inspection program for operable ejection seats will be based on a current manufacturer’s or current military program, and will include replacement intervals for lifelimited or shelf-life-limited components such as pyrotechnic cartridges. These limits cannot be extended without the manufacturer’s approval. (2) The PIC and flightcrew operating aircraft equipped with operational ejection seat(s), whether armed or not armed, must have satisfactorily completed an ejection seat training program per AC 91-87, Ejection Seat Training Programs, within the past 24 calendar months prior to operation for this make and model of aircraft. Passengers of these aircraft must have a safety brief prior to flight per AC 91-87. (3) The PIC and flightcrew operating aircraft that were previously issued an operating limitation that required FAA acceptance or approval of an ejection seat training program, meet that operating limitation if they successfully complete training using an ejection seat training program per the AC 91-87 for the applicable aircraft make/model. (4) For questions concerning specific aircraft and ejection seat training, contact the local FSDO or AFS-830. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:27:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Single engine jet. Still flying straight in a slight dive. Possible causes: Engine malfunction. Loss of hydraulics. Loss of flight control. Fire in cockpit. In GD, it is never the pilot or aircraft's fault. Some mysterious force forces them down and needs a 20-30 page thread to figure it out. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:29:57 AM EDT
[#23]
MiG-23 Air Worthiness Certificate
This gets into the weeds of what the FAA requires for civilian operators of the MiG-23. https://books.google.com/books?id=LyBQBwAAQBAJ&pg=RA5-SA5-PA25&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:30:23 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:30:38 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In GD, it is never the pilot or aircraft's fault. Some mysterious force forces them down and needs a 20-30 page thread to figure it out. Unpossible. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:33:50 AM EDT
[#26]
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/up-to-eight-cold-war-era-mig-23-flogger-fighter-jets-to-be-restored-for-flight-in-the-us/
Up to eight Cold War-Era MiG-23 Flogger fighter jets to be restored for flight in the US By Dario Leone Nov 10 2021 |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:36:11 AM EDT
[#27]
Crazy!
I was at the show yesterday, it was really cool seeing the -23 fly. I’d never seen one prior to this one showing up last week. Glad no one was injured. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:36:36 AM EDT
[#28]
If there was something Russian that I had to trust my life to, they seem to be able to make a decent ejection seat.
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:36:44 AM EDT
[#29]
https://www.nytimes.com/1984/05/03/us/general-killed-in-nevada-crash-flew-soviet-jet.html
Lieut. Gen. Robert M. Bond, vice commander of the Air Force Systems Command, was killed while flying ''an Air Force specially modified test craft.'' |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 1:40:42 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Several years ago an F18 crashed from losing both engines right after take off from Oceana in Virginia Beach. Crashed right into an apartment complex, both pilots ejected. It’s a miracle no one was killed. Hopefully this will be the same. I remember that... 
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Posted: 8/14/2023 8:02:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That dude just started flying it on the airshow circuit this year, it was at Oshkosh a week ago. Believe it was the same jet previously owned local to me in Delaware by Joe Gano. I think there is another one or possibly two he got. I saw it there, sad. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 8:36:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was in town when that happened. I think there is a reason why we still have "rules of the air" and "rules of the sea"; it's a human recognition that the forces of nature are much, much bigger and more powerful than any one of us individually, and that those of us who are "masters" of the sky or sea can be brought down at any moment, and for any reason. So IMO it is a testament to the character of those folks who steer their planes or drive their ships to safer crash sites during emergencies. It is their inherent recognition that they were permitted to defy gravity and certain other natural laws for a period of time, and that they got to enjoy all the highs and lows of human experience, due to the many extremely admirable efforts from us mere mortals on the ground...and yet in exchange they also realize that their last obligation is to us...the other regular human beings on the ground. It's the most humble human thing you can do under such circumstances. Pilots ARE smart. And WSOs ARE smart. And Plane Captains ARE smart. And everybody else that launched that plane, or sent that sub out of port. Anyway. I am glad that the pilots survived. I am glad that no one was hurt on the ground. I hope that the public doesn't allow "the powers that be" to clip anybody else' wings: this is America god dammit, where you CAN buy and fly any airplane that you choose, if you want too and can pay the fuel bill! Aviation inspires people. It sometimes offer a cautionary tale, such as today. But we don't send all the horses to the glue factory, just because somebody got thrown off a horse at some time or another. I think most of you guys get me. I honestly fucking HATE horses (turning money into horseshit), but if that imagery doesn't speak to you on some level...then I start to wonder if you have a soul. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Back in 2016, he Navy's Blue Angels lost a plane and pilot in a crash during practice for an air show in Smyrna, TN. The pilot rode the plane into the ground, crashing into a field, rather than nearby apartments. I was in town when that happened. I think there is a reason why we still have "rules of the air" and "rules of the sea"; it's a human recognition that the forces of nature are much, much bigger and more powerful than any one of us individually, and that those of us who are "masters" of the sky or sea can be brought down at any moment, and for any reason. So IMO it is a testament to the character of those folks who steer their planes or drive their ships to safer crash sites during emergencies. It is their inherent recognition that they were permitted to defy gravity and certain other natural laws for a period of time, and that they got to enjoy all the highs and lows of human experience, due to the many extremely admirable efforts from us mere mortals on the ground...and yet in exchange they also realize that their last obligation is to us...the other regular human beings on the ground. It's the most humble human thing you can do under such circumstances. Pilots ARE smart. And WSOs ARE smart. And Plane Captains ARE smart. And everybody else that launched that plane, or sent that sub out of port. Anyway. I am glad that the pilots survived. I am glad that no one was hurt on the ground. I hope that the public doesn't allow "the powers that be" to clip anybody else' wings: this is America god dammit, where you CAN buy and fly any airplane that you choose, if you want too and can pay the fuel bill! Aviation inspires people. It sometimes offer a cautionary tale, such as today. But we don't send all the horses to the glue factory, just because somebody got thrown off a horse at some time or another. I think most of you guys get me. I honestly fucking HATE horses (turning money into horseshit), but if that imagery doesn't speak to you on some level...then I start to wonder if you have a soul. Posts like this are why I’m here.  |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 8:51:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got this.. It’s between the stick and the seat. The Semi-Sentient Organic Flight Control Actuator. 
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Posted: 8/14/2023 8:55:05 AM EDT
[#34]
I had it on the hook at Sun-N-Fun.
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Posted: 8/14/2023 8:55:32 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, he didn't heroically stay with the aircraft so that it didn't hit apartments. Not to sound rude, or to put any shade on the pilot, but the whole "rode it in so it wouldn't hit (insert thing here)" just isn't part of the decisionmaking process in an emergency. He attempted to eject well outside the survivable ejection minimums. https://news.usni.org/2016/09/16/navy-investigation-concludes-fatal-blue-angels-crash-caused-pilot-error Because he became conscious at the last second from the G LOC. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 9:06:08 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MiG-23 Air Worthiness Certificate This gets into the weeds of what the FAA requires for civilian operators of the MiG-23. https://books.google.com/books?id=LyBQBwAAQBAJ&pg=RA5-SA5-PA25&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false Pretty interesting stuff in these posts of yours and a very interesting read linked here. Required manufacturer or military data and limitations is one that is really standing out to me with respect to this event. So it's soviet mfg? Which military data is best chosen for this. This FAA guide for field inspectors seems to be mostly written because of the historical unreliability and misunderstanding of the systems that have historically been taken care of by the military and mfg data This guide lists this airframe ejection seat ordnance and components approved mfg being a company in India I'm curious as to the FAA requirements for civilian training to handling, installing/testing ordnance systems on these or any civilian owned airframe. While non participation parties on the ground will always be exposed to the danger of a plane crash. I'm not sure how I feel about civilian aircraft with ejection seats. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 9:12:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trainer of some sort? 2 chutes popped. Profile sort of looks like a British Tornado. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 9:46:46 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can' find anything that mentions it, and it was told to me verbally, so maybe it is wrong. I cant imagine the red eagles jets were that different than the red hat jets, so maybe I am remembering wrong or maybe it was planned, now I am starting to doubt myself, it was a long time ago. eta: looks like I remember wrong. I hate that. this link about the book Red Eagles says they used the original russian seats https://travelforaircraft.wordpress.com/2013/10/19/red-eagles-write/ @ammosdad1 maybe at the time they were talking about retrofitting them, I dont jnow Thats the book I was thinking of. Retrofitting them with US seats would have been difficult, so it wasnt done. And AFAIK, all pf the MiGs that mysteriously turned up in museums around the tine the Red Hats/Eagles were disbanded, none have western seats. They lost another pilot in Floggers too, IIRC. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 10:07:16 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several years ago an F18 crashed from losing both engines right after take off from Oceana in Virginia Beach. Crashed right into an apartment complex, both pilots ejected. It’s a miracle no one was killed. Hopefully this will be the same. Minutes from my house. The Easter miracle |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 10:13:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mig-23UB
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Posted: 8/14/2023 10:14:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Anyone else notice when this flogger was at EAA it seemed pretty lethargic and slow? The take off and initial bank at EAA made it seem like she was really struggling to gain altitude. May be that the flogger is just an underpowered plane anyways but I remember thinking it was slow for a jet and seemed odd.
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Posted: 8/14/2023 10:30:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Semi-Sentient Organic Flight Control Actuator. |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 10:31:16 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone else notice when this flogger was at EAA it seemed pretty lethargic and slow? The take off and initial bank at EAA made it seem like she was really struggling to gain altitude. May be that the flogger is just an underpowered plane anyways but I remember thinking it was slow for a jet and seemed odd. It’s a flying brick |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 10:36:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: a flogger engine smokes like hell, and I don' see any engine smoke Quote HistoryQuoted: a flogger engine smokes like hell, and I don' see any engine smoke 'Cause it aint got no gas in it! Quoted: It was. Now it's The Jab. I don't think the jab causes the plane to stop working like that Quoted: Wow, didn’t know that Same That is such a gorgeous plane. I love USSR/Russian/Eastern European vehicles. They're absolutely stunning to me and why I refuse to dump my BRDM2 
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Posted: 8/14/2023 10:45:58 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s a flying brick I remember reading a long time ago about Reforger '88.... a pilot (maybe F-5?) talking about playing the part of a MiG-23, and to be somewhat accurate in portraying its flight characteristics, they had to do funky stuff like fly with their speed brakes on or limiting the throttle etc... |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 11:12:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Glad to see that everyone made it out safely and that nobody on the ground was hurt. Do you get to keep the Mig 23 landing gear if it falls in your yard? That would be an interesting conversation piece.
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Posted: 8/14/2023 11:20:15 AM EDT
[#47]
 VERY RARE Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23UB Flogger Flying in US Airspace! |
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Posted: 8/14/2023 5:13:52 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 8/14/2023 5:16:19 PM EDT
[#49]
-they got a show!
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Posted: 8/14/2023 6:33:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Officials: Engine failure caused fighter jet crash
 Officials: Engine failure caused fighter jet crash in Van Buren Township  Pilot recovering after ejecting from jet |
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