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Posted: 12/21/2019 2:31:24 AM EDT
[#1]
My official retirement date was 01 NOV 2019.
In the 20 years I served (enlisted) pay was never an issue, it was what it was. I stayed in because of the people and for what I thought I could provide to those people. Every time I thought about getting out I looked left and right and said to myself nope, there is no one else that will ever care for my men the way I do; and certainly not any that I would trust to take them down range. For those who serve to serve, regardless of all the bullshit, the politics, the whatever...they will all tell you that the pay was low on the list of priorities as to why they did it. The guys saying we are paid too much likely never put on armor... |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 2:39:51 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Officers are paid way too much, enlisted way too little Given the shit enlisted deal with, its fucking criminal that some dipshit makes double what they do just cuz they went to college first Fuck all officers who weren't enlisted first If this makes it worse, the E-4 w/10 years (who posted here) makes almost 4X less than a senior O-6, not counting BAH and all the rest of the entitlements. As far as if it's too much or too little (and I can only speak for the CG), retention in the CG is almost 94%. That indicates it isn't too little. Most exit interviews rarely list pay as an issue; wanting geographic stability was generally #1, and that's something nobody gets in any Service. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 2:43:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As an E4 with 10 years in, I made $13 an hour on a deployment. That includes haz pay, BAH, getting hit with rockets and mortars. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 2:54:47 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you be an E-4 with 10 years in? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As an E4 with 10 years in, I made $13 an hour on a deployment. That includes haz pay, BAH, getting hit with rockets and mortars. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:12:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NG or Reserves activated for deployment? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As an E4 with 10 years in, I made $13 an hour on a deployment. That includes haz pay, BAH, getting hit with rockets and mortars. Getting hit with Rockets and Mortars=FOBs are where the enemy likes to say hello...so incidental to his service. Immenent Danger Pay is more likely what he was collecting...Haz pay is different (think Parachute, Demolition, etc.) Soft skill MOS w/ shitty leadership adds up to someone who needs to GTFO if haven’t done so already. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:20:30 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
High relative to civilian pay. Well, guess most civilians are getting paid like shit, doesn't mean the military has to be paid like shit too. Using the same logic the article could make a case for increasing minimum wage. Military pay reflects what average pay for responsibility should be for equivalent civilian jobs. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:27:28 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not reading that garbage, but you can start to compare the military to civilians when the military only works a 40hr week, these people should STFU until that happens. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:27:41 AM EDT
[#8]
$2305 a month as a 4 year E-4 when I got out in 2013
Granted the $1100 in BAH which wasn't taxed brought my biweekly checks to around $1600. I lived comfortably for the times, I wasn't rich but I wasn't poor. Nowadays I pay for insurance, pension, 401K... the amount of deductions I have is ridiculous compared to having none before and barely ever owing anything of significance in taxes. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:34:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NG or Reserves activated for deployment? Retiring as an E4 was not uncommon. You don't make E5 unless that guy above you retires or ETS's. And that's if your unit has an E5 slot for your MOS. Otherwise, drive 250 miles to get promoted. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:38:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would you be an E-4 with 10 years in? |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:41:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ouch, tell us how you really feel :-) If this makes it worse, the E-4 w/10 years (who posted here) makes almost 4X less than a senior O-6, not counting BAH and all the rest of the entitlements. As far as if it's too much or too little (and I can only speak for the CG), retention in the CG is almost 94%. That indicates it isn't too little. Most exit interviews rarely list pay as an issue; wanting geographic stability was generally #1, and that's something nobody gets in any Service. The O-6 is responsible for HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of people, including that E-4, and hugely expensive equipment. Or he might be responsible for planning, programming and budgeting for billions of taxpayer dollars that buy equipment and weapons, along with all their logistic support. The E-4 might be in charge of maintaining a truck, under close supervision of an E-6. A truck that a predecessor of the O-6 spent literally years specifying, procuring, testing, and fielding. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:41:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: , username is telling, poor sounding attitude is more telling... Oh, and I was never supply ;) Nor a WO. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:46:00 AM EDT
[#13]
officers maybe, my CO pulls in close to 9K a month right now
enlisted never makes enough money period end of story no discussion |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:47:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. Retiring as an E4 was not uncommon. You don't make E5 unless that guy above you retires or ETS's. And that's if your unit has an E5 slot for your MOS. Otherwise, drive 250 miles to get promoted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: NG or Reserves activated for deployment? Retiring as an E4 was not uncommon. You don't make E5 unless that guy above you retires or ETS's. And that's if your unit has an E5 slot for your MOS. Otherwise, drive 250 miles to get promoted. Everyone (including him) thought it was hilarious. If you have a well paying civilian job and you just enjoy your Guard MOS (and Tricare) why not. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:50:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are paid enough when the military is meeting recruiting goals, |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:51:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Paid too much? No.
Paid fairly, when you factor in tax advantages, hidden payments like health insurance, retirement, etc given the amount of experience and education required? Yes. Fuck, I retired at 37. And I was a shitbag that cared more about having fun then getting promoted and retired an E-5 on my 3rd time being one. As for "there would be lines outside the recruiting office"... Kids are stupid and don't want to work. You can literally give them a classroom presentation as a recruiter, showing facts and figures, and they will still say "I will take loans" |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 3:54:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As an E-5 with a wife and child we qualified for WIC assistance based on my income. No, service members do not get paid too much. 
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Posted: 12/21/2019 4:03:09 AM EDT
[#18]
I remember when these asshats came to do this survey. Their big selling point was "we're pushing to put everybody on the GS pay scale, and remove all the tax free entitlements. We'll pay you more so it evens out, and the gov can tax you more, everybody wins and nobody makes less money." This is after we just did our pay comp study (National Guard) and all of our guys, O and E, were making any where from 24% - 67% less then their peers in the civ side. Thanks RAND.
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Posted: 12/21/2019 4:08:37 AM EDT
[#19]
No.
We have a professional military, and only 20% of the population is eligible to serve. We are drawing from a shallow pool and those same people are also attractive to corporate America. They have difficult jobs and leave home at a moment's notice for months on end, they need to be properly compensated. Or they will leave. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 4:53:10 AM EDT
[#20]
The pay is adequate. No one that is enlisted is going to be rich (unless they win the lottery or something crazy), but they're not going to go hungry either.
No amount of money is worth missing years of your kids/families lives (births, birthdays, holidays, etc.), the only thing that keeps many of us in and doing what we do is because we enjoy it and it's important. If it was only about the money or compensation they would have to be paying me a shitload more than they are now. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 4:58:59 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't compare E-4 with 10 years to an O-6 with 25+ years. What is the E-4 responsible for? Not much other than himself and sometimes a couple E-3s. The O-6 is responsible for HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of people, including that E-4, and hugely expensive equipment. Or he might be responsible for planning, programming and budgeting for billions of taxpayer dollars that buy equipment and weapons, along with all their logistic support. The E-4 might be in charge of maintaining a truck, under close supervision of an E-6. A truck that a predecessor of the O-6 spent literally years specifying, procuring, testing, and fielding. I've heard arguments like his my entire career, generally ignored them, since most rebuttals would fall on deaf ears. I did offer five of my guys, when they were bitching about officers, to sign their packages for OCS if they were so inclined. All were surprised and four took me up on it. Three made very good officers, all have made O5, one not so much. Point is that I was always more than happy to offer someone who I thought could do my job the opportunity to make that jump. I never required my personnel to do anything I wouldn't do myself. As I got more senior, I couldn't do those jobs anymore, but I did ensure they were able to do their jobs without interference. My job evolved into ensuring that everyone else had the tools and training to do their jobs. Lastly, I never complained about what the Coast Guard paid me. Now, if folks want to bitch about what I make as a civilian, that's actually justified 
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Posted: 12/21/2019 5:00:10 AM EDT
[#22]
I wish I had a chow hall.
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Posted: 12/21/2019 5:11:32 AM EDT
[#23]
If people are enlisting you're paying them
enough. Article that talks about the problems finding people who want to enlist and aren't too fat, dumb or criminally inclined to get in. https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-recruitment-problem-the-military-doesnt-want-to-talk-about/ |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 5:21:43 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not understanding special pays might be one reason, username is telling, poor sounding attitude is more telling... Getting hit with Rockets and Mortars=FOBs are where the enemy likes to say hello...so incidental to his service. Immenent Danger Pay is more likely what he was collecting...Haz pay is different (think Parachute, Demolition, etc.) Soft skill MOS w/ shitty leadership adds up to someone who needs to GTFO if haven’t done so already. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As an E4 with 10 years in, I made $13 an hour on a deployment. That includes haz pay, BAH, getting hit with rockets and mortars. Getting hit with Rockets and Mortars=FOBs are where the enemy likes to say hello...so incidental to his service. Immenent Danger Pay is more likely what he was collecting...Haz pay is different (think Parachute, Demolition, etc.) Soft skill MOS w/ shitty leadership adds up to someone who needs to GTFO if haven’t done so already. 
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Posted: 12/21/2019 5:23:27 AM EDT
[#25]
Hell no!
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Posted: 12/21/2019 5:59:42 AM EDT
[#26]
1987 I was paid $990 a month for E4/SP4. I was in Germany, the market sank and the exchange rate was almost 1:1. That $990 was not nearly enough for all the bullshit we endured.
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Posted: 12/21/2019 7:01:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Over paid? That's a stretch. We do have once of the best compensated armed forces in the world. It's just that a lot of that compensation isn't reflected in the pay charts and a lot that compensation is paid out after members separate.
If you delve in even further to job training and security clearances, the military really shines as it gives it's members an edge on extremely high paying jobs or jobs that pay significantly more than their non DOD counterparts. Getting paid 80K a year to set up conference calls and presentation equipment only happens to people who have security clearances and most companies aren't going to pay for that low of a salaried person to get a security clearance. It's not money in hand while members are in but they certainly have the advantage should they take advantage of those kind of opportunities while they are in the service. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 7:15:12 AM EDT
[#28]
When you look at civilian jobs that send you to warzone with austere living conditions and long hours the lower paid jobs start around $100k.
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Posted: 12/21/2019 7:18:36 AM EDT
[#29]
You are fucking joking, right?
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Posted: 12/21/2019 7:35:02 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 12/21/2019 7:38:31 AM EDT
[#31]
I don’t know about officers but enlisted are not overpaid. It was a long time ago but I was so damn poor as a marine I was selling plasma to help pay for beer. Free food was a huge positive though.
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Posted: 12/21/2019 7:56:29 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reports I’ve read have shown that enlistment numbers are going down and standards for acceptance are going down as well (things like asthma in childhood formerly being disqualifying, and now there is a workaround/waiver, and others). The supply and demand economic principle may explain these, as the number of enlistments declines, the cost to hire new one increases until equilibrium is found. If military salaries have risen over the course of 2001-Present, I may propose that one factor may have been the lack of excitement to travel to Iraq and Afghanistan to be killed or maimed by a roadside bomb, among others. Actually @614Buckeye tell me more about the entire first paragraph. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:03:08 AM EDT
[#33]
Yes.
. .
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:08:38 AM EDT
[#34]
Considering the job is 24/7 365, enlisted guys dont make enough. I remember it being tough to get by compared to civilians I knew.
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:10:43 AM EDT
[#35]
NO! I don't believe it can it be possible to pay someone too much when they are quite literally willing to risk life and limb on my behalf.
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:11:05 AM EDT
[#36]
Very low barrier of entry and tons of people wanting to do it equal low salaries. Same reason teachers, medics, and police usually make very little. I live in podunk ks. They can get a new teacher or cop here in less than 2 weeks.
I don't understand why you would be a soldier OTHER than the 2 reasons my friends, family, and wife's ex do it. They either dreamed about it forever and love it (those guys have moved up and done well financially) or they can't hold a regular job and had no other options. Some people just can't start themselves, they need someone telling or yelling at them to do it. My wife's ex and 2 of my highschool classmates were fired from every civilian job they had. Mostly scheduling issues with video games. They stay in the military. Haven't advanced much but it's a job. On the other hand a close friend of mine and a cousin wanted nothing more than to be in the service. They both are officers and make a good living. They weren't great in school, average. But military life was their strength it seems. My wife's best friend's husband is in also. Officer school right now. Loser. He's flunking and about to be demoted. Said he needs helps but he will not ask for it under any circumstances. She did all of his homework during military school before to get him the shot. Now he's full time school and it's getting ugly. Those occupations really are the law of supply and demand at work. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:11:08 AM EDT
[#37]
I take a pay cut from my civilian job as an e-7 with 21 years. If I was still active it wouldn’t be to bad a paycheck.
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:18:11 AM EDT
[#38]
Pay soldiers more.
Pay defense industry less. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:27:34 AM EDT
[#39]
I don't have a problem with the pay structure. I know that when I was active and reserve, every day I worked was at least 10 hours and most were closer to 12. So if you break it down, the pay is justified.
What I do have a problem with is the current VA disability system. You draw a retirement check along with a 100% disability check and you can go back to work as a contractor. It should be like any other job where someone goes out on disability. You get one or the other or a combination of both not to exceed a certain percentage of you highest salary. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:31:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Some are massively overpaid
Some are massively underpaid |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:35:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pay is so good there are lines a mile long outside the recruitment office.
I tried being a good ambassador of the service and assist the recruiting folks. You can't entice most 17-24 year olds with free college and one weekend a month. I'm talking about the Guard.... A few months of tech training and then free college. The typical answer is they can just take loans. Or they're too fat. Or they use drugs. Or they have tattoos all over their neck and face. Or they are so fucked up in the head the bells go off instantly. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:39:16 AM EDT
[#42]
We pay the welfare scammers and SSI DISABILITY thieves too much. Cut that 10%
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:39:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very low barrier of entry and tons of people wanting to do it equal low salaries. Same reason teachers, medics, and police usually make very little. I live in podunk ks. They can get a new teacher or cop here in less than 2 weeks. I don't understand why you would be a soldier OTHER than the 2 reasons my friends, family, and wife's ex do it. They either dreamed about it forever and love it (those guys have moved up and done well financially) or they can't hold a regular job and had no other options. Some people just can't start themselves, they need someone telling or yelling at them to do it. My wife's ex and 2 of my highschool classmates were fired from every civilian job they had. Mostly scheduling issues with video games. They stay in the military. Haven't advanced much but it's a job. On the other hand a close friend of mine and a cousin wanted nothing more than to be in the service. They both are officers and make a good living. They weren't great in school, average. But military life was their strength it seems. My wife's best friend's husband is in also. Officer school right now. Loser. He's flunking and about to be demoted. Said he needs helps but he will not ask for it under any circumstances. She did all of his homework during military school before to get him the shot. Now he's full time school and it's getting ugly. Those occupations really are the law of supply and demand at work. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:44:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's your problem. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:44:59 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not reading that garbage, but you can start to compare the military to civilians when the military only works a 40hr week, these people should STFU until that happens. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:45:00 AM EDT
[#46]
Are some military members paid too much? Without doubt.
Are some military members underpaid? Certainly. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:52:04 AM EDT
[#47]
When I got off active duty as an E5 in 2014 I calculated that I would need something like 65k a year to maintain the same standard of living. I went to college before I enlisted, but an E5 with 5 years could easily be 24 years old and with no degree so that's pretty good money
Base pay isn't much but BAH, BAS, incentive pays (much of which isn't taxed) add up and that money goes a lot further when you don't pay for, for instance, any health insurance or virtually any healthcare costs for yourself or family You can say military people aren't paid enough, but you won't convince me that most of the people I worked with weren't doing a lot better financially than they would have been in the civilian sector. Maybe that's necessary to compensate for the deployment tempo and all the shit enlisted people have to deal with. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 8:54:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After just short of 5 years in the Army, I was an E5 making and super awesome $27k gross salary. Given the hours we actually worked (11 hours a day on a normal day, 20+ hours a day in the field or deployed), I don't think I was even getting paid minimum wage. In the real world that would be called getting paid "jack shit." 
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Posted: 12/21/2019 9:01:51 AM EDT
[#49]
For the sacrifices required, no way.
From a straight pay perspective, my son could get out today and make 4x his current pay. |
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Posted: 12/21/2019 9:03:52 AM EDT
[#50]
If you think they are paid too much. You have never served.
Combat dangers aside, being in the service is tough. Imagine being 18, living halfway across the country from your home, with pretty much no real hope of being transferred closer. That is the starting point of suck. You sleep at your place of employment, if someone with one more stripe than you beats on your door at 0300 and tells you that you have to go to the metoprolol and spread kitty litter on an oil spill, right fucking now, you have to do it. Don't like your roommate? Tough shit. You're sick as a dog and have a PT test the next day? Sick call asshole thinks you are faking, you get Motrin and returned to duty, good luck on that two mile run with bronchitis. Got tickets for a show this weekend? It was sold out and you paid $200 a seat? Too bad, the girl Scouts need tents for an event this weekend, you are on the detail. Some asshole in headquarters platoon lost a Comsec fill device, you are on lockdown and walking field sites at arms length looking for it all weekend, and you still don't even know what a comsec fill device is. The military isn't a job, every task you are given is a direct order, failure is punishable by confinement, extra duty and loss of pay, even the stupidest utterance of an Officer or NCO is an order, and if you feel it is unlawful you had best be prepared for a fight if you decide to ignore it. |
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