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Posted: 8/3/2024 9:20:51 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigvic: I'm no expert, but as someone who has just delved into UTXO management, UTXOs don't have their own addresses. I have several addresses in my cold storage wallet that have multiple UTXOs instead. You can move BTC from an exchange to the same wallet address over time with multiple transactions. Every transaction creates a new UTXO. You want to make sure you are doing that with a decent chunk of BTC/fee that won't hinder you in the future because when you move BTC out of your wallet every additional UTXO that it has to use to cover the transaction increases your fees. Fees are cheap now, but some are saying they could greatly increase in the future especially when little BTC is left to mine then the miners have to increase fees to cover their cost to operate. An example I keep hearing is that people that buy $10 fiat of BTC immediately move it to self custody with today's cheap fees creating a new UTXO. Sometime in the future if the fees to move that same UTXO costs $10, you will lose a lot of value if you want to move a lot of BTC utilizing many UTXOs. My argument against that is that $10 worth of BTC today will not be $10 worth at that time, so the point may be moot. That being said, I am currently working on consolidating my UTXOs into more of a structured form, and making sure I have a decent amount before offloading from the exchange. YMMV Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigvic: Originally Posted By Naporter: I wonder how they'd apply that to UTXOs since every one is a different address? Edit: ok, reading through it, all im seeing is a decision that is so convoluted as to be intentionally difficult to comply with. I'm no expert, but as someone who has just delved into UTXO management, UTXOs don't have their own addresses. I have several addresses in my cold storage wallet that have multiple UTXOs instead. You can move BTC from an exchange to the same wallet address over time with multiple transactions. Every transaction creates a new UTXO. You want to make sure you are doing that with a decent chunk of BTC/fee that won't hinder you in the future because when you move BTC out of your wallet every additional UTXO that it has to use to cover the transaction increases your fees. Fees are cheap now, but some are saying they could greatly increase in the future especially when little BTC is left to mine then the miners have to increase fees to cover their cost to operate. An example I keep hearing is that people that buy $10 fiat of BTC immediately move it to self custody with today's cheap fees creating a new UTXO. Sometime in the future if the fees to move that same UTXO costs $10, you will lose a lot of value if you want to move a lot of BTC utilizing many UTXOs. My argument against that is that $10 worth of BTC today will not be $10 worth at that time, so the point may be moot. That being said, I am currently working on consolidating my UTXOs into more of a structured form, and making sure I have a decent amount before offloading from the exchange. YMMV Poor choice of wording on my part trying to be succinct, and forgetting the newer wallets use a static address for BTC payments and a second address specific for UTXOs associated with inscriptions. What I'm wondering is if they're going to treat each UTXO as a separate address since, to an outsider, they would appear as multiple accounts. For cost basis lots that would make sense with the rest of this ruling. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/4/2024 8:31:29 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naporter: I wonder how they'd apply that to UTXOs since every one is a different address? Edit: ok, reading through it, all im seeing is a decision that is so convoluted as to be intentionally difficult to comply with. Yeah, I honestly cannot figure out what that IRS memo actually says. Doesn't really matter to me since I don't cash out more than $40K/year anyway, so I'm below the 0% tax line. I tried to find that Ayn Rand quote about "do you think we actually wanted you to follow the laws?" which might have been in the same speech as Mazeman's quote, but the Objectivists seem to have done a pretty good job of scrubbing "Atlas Shrugged" from the internet. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/4/2024 10:12:20 AM EST
[#3]
bloodbath
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USA
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Posted: 8/4/2024 10:36:04 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dog-meat: bloodbath AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! My PORSCHE!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 12:41:04 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sebastian_MacMaine: AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! My PORSCHE!!!!!!!!!!!! Current support is at 55845. If it cracks that, somewhere around 50,740 is the next floor. |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 12:48:01 PM EST
[#6]
Dammit
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Posted: 8/4/2024 1:36:52 PM EST
[#7]
Well shit, just bought last night and then this drop, if it goes below $55k, I'll probably invest another $1000 in btc. One of these days the halving will have it's effect and we'll never see these prices again.
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Posted: 8/4/2024 2:35:13 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nosler180: we'll never see these prices again. oh no you just dint |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 7:39:41 PM EST
[#9]
Falling hard again
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/4/2024 7:48:50 PM EST
[#10]
Look out below! I might be a buyer at 10k….lol
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USA
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Posted: 8/4/2024 7:58:36 PM EST
[#11]
 Dan Pena Believes Bitcoin Will Go to ZERO LOL |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 8:11:44 PM EST
[#12]
Jump trading is liquidating their crypto holdings, btc , eth, sol, they have been selling for the last 22 hours.
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USA
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Posted: 8/4/2024 8:16:47 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nosler180: Jump trading is liquidating their crypto holdings, btc , eth, sol, they have been selling for the last 22 hours. How much do they have available to dump? |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 8:18:03 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nosler180: Well shit, just bought last night and then this drop, if it goes below $55k, I'll probably invest another $1000 in btc. One of these days the halving will have it's effect and we'll never see these prices again. Might want to hold off until the high 30’s |
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Posted: 8/4/2024 8:27:22 PM EST
[#15]
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Posted: 8/4/2024 11:54:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: Fulcrum-5]
[#16]
 :max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/bitcoins-price-history-Final-2-2-0e7cdaab46ed43889e3c5c03f987e703.jpg)
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 12:22:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: Jagrmaister]
[#17]
Some days I wish I was oblivious to Bitcoin and didn't even know what it was.
 
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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 4:15:13 AM EST
[#18]
How's my hodlrs!
You should have sold on 7/31 when BTC dropped below the 20-day Exponential Moving Average when it was at 65,238. Nearly every time that happens it's indicating a big dip is starting! 06/10 btc drops below 20-day EMA at 69,510 - SELL! 07/05 btc hits the 200-day EMA at 56,839 - BUY BACK! (Actually, put in a buy stop a little over btc spot in case it goes lower. In this case it didn't go any lower but added over 10K in coin per coin) 07/14 btc goes above 20-day EMA at 59,924 - If btc had not already hit the 200-day EMA I would have bought back here and still added 10K in coin per coin. 07/31 btc drops below 20-day EMA at 65,238 - SELL! 08/04 btc hits the 200-day EMA at 58,496 - BUY BACK! (Actually, put in a buy stop a little over btc spot in case it goes lower, and boy did it! All the way down to 49,050!. I'll admit. I got too greedy and rode it too close and got bought back in early a couple times, but I just sold when it started going back down again, so I didn't quite make as much as I could have but still! I added an ass load of coin. At this rate I'll own it all by the time it gets to zero! re. Fed chairman Powell calls emergency meeting due to massive meltdowns worldwide...lol the day will probably end up green btc will be back over 60K by end of day tomorrow and we'll have our double bottom hitting having 200-day EMA twice, first on 07/05 and again on 08/04. Kid of a lopsided double bottom but good enough to set us up for a new ATH in Sept. imo. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 4:46:30 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Megastorm: How's my hodlrs! You should have sold on 7/31 when BTC dropped below the 20-day Exponential Moving Average when it was at 65,238. Nearly every time that happens it's indicating a big dip is starting! 06/10 btc drops below 20-day EMA at 69,510 - SELL! 07/05 btc hits the 200-day EMA at 56,839 - BUY BACK! (Actually, put in a buy stop a little over btc spot in case it goes lower. In this case it didn't go any lower but added over 10K in coin per coin) 07/14 btc goes above 20-day EMA at 59,924 - If btc had not already hit the 200-day EMA I would have bought back here and still added 10K in coin per coin. 07/31 btc drops below 20-day EMA at 65,238 - SELL! 08/04 btc hits the 200-day EMA at 58,496 - BUY BACK! (Actually, put in a buy stop a little over btc spot in case it goes lower, and boy did it! All the way down to 49,050!. I'll admit. I got too greedy and rode it too close and got bought back in early a couple times, but I just sold when it started going back down again, so I didn't quite make as much as I could have but still! I added an ass load of coin. At this rate I'll own it all by the time it gets to zero! re. Fed chairman Powell calls emergency meeting due to massive meltdowns worldwide...lol the day will probably end up green btc will be back over 60K by end of day tomorrow and we'll have our double bottom hitting having 200-day EMA twice, first on 07/05 and again on 08/04. Kid of a lopsided double bottom but good enough to set us up for a new ATH in Sept. imo. Holding, bought more. You aren't my financial advisor. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 5:40:34 AM EST
[#20]
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 6:24:14 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Megastorm: btc will be back over 60K by end of day tomorrow and we'll have our double bottom hitting having 200-day EMA twice, first on 07/05 and again on 08/04. Kid of a lopsided double bottom but good enough to set us up for a new ATH in Sept. imo. [expresses doubt] |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 6:34:25 AM EST
[#22]
Gotta lol at the coinbase price alerts, btc is up 5% to 52xxx in the last 3 hours.
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Posted: 8/5/2024 6:39:54 AM EST
[#23]
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Posted: 8/5/2024 6:43:21 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fooboy: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/113559/Benjamin_Cowen___intocryptoverse___X_jpe-3286223.JPG Somedays I really fucking hate Ben. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 6:44:49 AM EST
[#25]
Good times. Bad times. This .gif always works.
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Posted: 8/5/2024 6:46:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: Enzo300]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Enzo300: Current support is at 55845. If it cracks that, somewhere around 50,740 is the next floor. Sitting on support at 50740. Next floor is ~39580 if she doesn't hold, then ~36400. Resistance likely at previous support of 55845 (7/8/24 pivot bottom).  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:39:18 AM EST
[#27]
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:39:50 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morgan321: I'm confused, do I buy, sell, or wait? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/335009/Screenshot_2024-08-05_083840_png-3286275.JPG Double down. 
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IL, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:45:55 AM EST
[#29]
Maybe BTC has a long future IDK. Today is certainly a reminder why I maintain it's more like a slot machine than a "currency."
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:47:17 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By makintrax73: Maybe BTC has a long future IDK. Today is certainly a reminder why I maintain it's more like a slot machine than a "currency." At least it doesn't have a built in house edge like the USD. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:47:18 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By makintrax73: Maybe BTC has a long future IDK. Today is certainly a reminder why I maintain it's more like a slot machine than a "currency." With zero research into the asset... 
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:52:02 AM EST
[#32]
Quote History |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:53:01 AM EST
[#33]
I may buy when it hits $20k today. Will hold out until then.
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:53:10 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jagrmaister: Double down. I have been! |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 8:54:17 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sanausnol: I may buy when it hits $20k today. Will hold out until then. LOFL. Where do you people come from? Good luck! |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 9:12:00 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: At least it doesn't have a built in house edge like the USD. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: Originally Posted By makintrax73: Maybe BTC has a long future IDK. Today is certainly a reminder why I maintain it's more like a slot machine than a "currency." At least it doesn't have a built in house edge like the USD. Yeah, still amazes me the amount of people who'll shit on Crypto in general, but espouse a love of freedom. Decentralized finance is one if the purest expressions of freedom in the financial world. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 9:15:09 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Naporter: Yeah, still amazes me the amount of people who'll shit on Crypto in general, but espouse a love of freedom. Decentralized finance is one if the purest expressions of freedom in the financial world. That illusion went out the window when Coinbase started demanding my SS# to do anything but transfer out. Into the hardware wallet she went. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 9:20:34 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sanausnol: I may buy when it hits $20k today. Will hold out until then. At one point it was down $20K from a week ago. I was waiting to sell some over $70K to take a vacation, and it hit $69,7xx before "OMG Israel and Iran!!!" and dropping like a rock.  Glad I finally said fuck it and pulled the trigger Saturday night. Now I'm wondering if the IRS will get pissed if I write "LOL who cares" for my basis cost on my tax return next year.
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Posted: 8/5/2024 9:48:29 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: That's an incredibly deceptive y-axis you got there, hoss. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: That's an incredibly deceptive y-axis you got there, hoss. Wouldn't even be deceptive without the log axis, but he'd need a much, much bigger image.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 9:49:54 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Enzo300: That illusion went out the window when Coinbase started demanding my SS# to do anything but transfer out. Into the hardware wallet she went. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Enzo300: Originally Posted By Naporter: Yeah, still amazes me the amount of people who'll shit on Crypto in general, but espouse a love of freedom. Decentralized finance is one if the purest expressions of freedom in the financial world. That illusion went out the window when Coinbase started demanding my SS# to do anything but transfer out. Into the hardware wallet she went. Coinbase is not decentralized finance. It's a bridge between centralized and decentralized systems. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 9:55:49 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: Coinbase is not decentralized finance. It's a bridge between centralized and decentralized systems. Wonderful. Can you point me to an on or off ramp that doesn't require my I.D.? |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 9:57:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: Morgan321]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: Coinbase is not decentralized finance. It's a bridge between centralized and decentralized systems. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: Originally Posted By Enzo300: That illusion went out the window when Coinbase started demanding my SS# to do anything but transfer out. Into the hardware wallet she went. Coinbase is not decentralized finance. It's a bridge between centralized and decentralized systems. Not directly related, but in reading up on Fidelity's crypto account I discovered that Fidelity does not report gains/losses on crypto to the IRS because there is no law that requires it. There is a rule(not a law) that you(the investor) has to report crypto gains/losses though, but that is not Fidelity's problem. Originally Posted By Enzo300: Wonderful. Can you point me to an on or off ramp that doesn't require my I.D.? Put your bitcoin on your computer and transfer it anywhere you want. I'll buy your bitcoin for $10k each. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2024 9:58:27 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: That's an incredibly deceptive y-axis you got there, hoss. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: That's an incredibly deceptive y-axis you got there, hoss. It's not just deceptive, the chart is actually wrong. It claims "$20K in May, $19,345 in December" for the 2017 spike, and that definitely didn't happen. It was only about $4K in September 2017, never quite reached $20K in December, and collapsed back to $9K within weeks of the peak. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 10:00:17 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: That's an incredibly deceptive y-axis you got there, hoss. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tortilla-flats: That's an incredibly deceptive y-axis you got there, hoss. Maybe, but not for the reasons you are thinking. Linear scales are very deceptive because they under represent older data on things which are best described by a rate of growth. For example, look at a linear scale of the S&P 500. If you ignored the scale and took the chart shape at face value you, you would presume that nothing happened for 100 years and then all of a sudden things got exciting in the late 90s.  Attached FileLogarithmic scale is the best way to chart things like Stocks or Bitcoin. It's the best way to illustrate the rate of growth over time. If you look at Bitcoin on a logarithmic scale, you can see there is a declining rate of return phenomenon, which is an important phenomenon to understand. The only problem with that chart above is that it's not a true logarithmic scale because the distance from $1k to $5k shouldn't be the same as $5k to $10k on a logarithmic scale It's some sloppy hand drawn bullshit. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 10:03:34 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morgan321: Not directly related, but in reading up on Fidelity's crypto account I discovered that Fidelity does not report gains/losses on crypto to the IRS because there is no law that requires it. There is a rule(not a law) that you(the investor) has to report crypto gains/losses though, but that is not Fidelity's problem. Put your bitcoin on your computer and transfer it anywhere you want. I'll buy your bitcoin for $10k each. Now that is resounding testament to its worth. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 10:03:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: D_J]
[#46]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 8/5/2024 10:11:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: woodsie]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Enzo300: Wonderful. Can you point me to an on or off ramp that doesn't require my I.D.? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Enzo300: Originally Posted By woodsie: Coinbase is not decentralized finance. It's a bridge between centralized and decentralized systems. Wonderful. Can you point me to an on or off ramp that doesn't require my I.D.? If you want a bridge from a traditional system to a decentralized system, you are going to have to play by the rules of the traditional system. It's like the Berlin Wall. They built it to keep people in, not to keep people out. The "KYC free" on ramp / off ramp from cryptocurrency looks like this: On Ramp -> Build your own mining rig and convert electricity into cryptocurrency. Off Ramp -> Spend your cryptocurrency directly on the stuff you actually want to buy rather than exchanging it for dollars. Cryptocurrency wasn't invented with the idea of "off ramping" to USD. That's something that wasn't even really contemplated until a couple years after the invention of Bitcoin. The first legitimate Bitcoin value transaction was a year and a half after it was released and it was for pizza, not dollars. Trading and speculation as we know it came even later than that. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 10:14:34 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By mooreshawnm: Originally Posted By Naporter: Originally Posted By woodsie: Originally Posted By makintrax73: Maybe BTC has a long future IDK. Today is certainly a reminder why I maintain it's more like a slot machine than a "currency." At least it doesn't have a built in house edge like the USD. Yeah, still amazes me the amount of people who'll shit on Crypto in general, but espouse a love of freedom. Decentralized finance is one if the purest expressions of freedom in the financial world.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N10oT0XI_P8The Tulip analogy with Bitcoin is at least 11 years old on GD. I first heard it back when I was buying at $200 per each. Tulip mania didn't last as long nor did it ever recover from it's first crash. That analogy is stone cold dead at this point. |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 10:18:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: Enzo300]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By woodsie: If you want a bridge from a traditional system to a decentralized system, you are going to have to play by the rules of the traditional system. It's like the Berlin Wall. They built it to keep people in, not to keep people out. The "KYC free" on ramp / off ramp from cryptocurrency looks like this: On Ramp -> Build your own mining rig and convert electricity into cryptocurrency. Off Ramp -> Spend your cryptocurrency directly on the stuff you actually want to buy rather than exchanging it for dollars. Cryptocurrency wasn't invented with the idea of "off ramping" to USD. That's something that wasn't even really contemplated until a couple years after the invention of Bitcoin. The first legitimate Bitcoin value transaction was a year and a half after it was released and it was for pizza, not dollars. Trading and speculation as we know it came even later than that. OK then, how about a grocery store chain where I can "off ramp" BTC for some necessities? BTC maxi's are great at arguing BTC's fine points, but to Joe down the street, it's still not working as intended. As long as there are 1000's of maxi's, and millions of Joe's, it's not going to go the way you say. As a market with a lot of volatility, and some pretty good chart behavior, BTC works for me but it sure as hell isn't "money". |
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Posted: 8/5/2024 10:30:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: woodsie]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Enzo300: OK then, how about a grocery store chain where I can "off ramp" BTC for some necessities? BTC maxi's are great at arguing BTC's fine points, but to Joe down the street, it's still not working as intended. As long as there are 1000's of maxi's, and millions of Joe's, it's not going to go the way you say. As a market with a lot of volatility, and some pretty good chart behavior, BTC works for me but it sure as hell isn't "money". Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Enzo300: Originally Posted By woodsie: If you want a bridge from a traditional system to a decentralized system, you are going to have to play by the rules of the traditional system. It's like the Berlin Wall. They built it to keep people in, not to keep people out. The "KYC free" on ramp / off ramp from cryptocurrency looks like this: On Ramp -> Build your own mining rig and convert electricity into cryptocurrency. Off Ramp -> Spend your cryptocurrency directly on the stuff you actually want to buy rather than exchanging it for dollars. Cryptocurrency wasn't invented with the idea of "off ramping" to USD. That's something that wasn't even really contemplated until a couple years after the invention of Bitcoin. The first legitimate Bitcoin value transaction was a year and a half after it was released and it was for pizza, not dollars. Trading and speculation as we know it came even later than that. OK then, how about a grocery store chain where I can "off ramp" BTC for some necessities? BTC maxi's are great at arguing BTC's fine points, but to Joe down the street, it's still not working as intended. As long as there are 1000's of maxi's, and millions of Joe's, it's not going to go the way you say. As a market with a lot of volatility, and some pretty good chart behavior, BTC works for me but it sure as hell isn't "money". I've explained this dozens of times in this thread but I'll do it again. A) For any currency to truly be decentralized, it must start at zero. Any currency that launches with value is by definition centralized to some degree. B) For any decentralized currency to truly be useful globally, it must have a market capitalization in the multiple trillions if you are using the USD as a benchmark for the sake of discussion. Therefore: C) For any decentralized currency to get from Point A to Point B, it is inevitably the case that there must be an extended period of time over which the market for it is built out by speculators. On that point, thank you for your service. If you can step back and see the big picture, then you would understand that we are potentially in the middle of a several decades long experiment in decentralized currency and you are trying to judge the results of the experiment long before it's actually completed. This is not a Bitcoin maxi argument. This is a broad argument regarding cryptocurrency or even perhaps some other future form of decentralized currency that we haven't even contemplated. There is no rule that says that a future cryptocurrency which succeeds in global adoption has to be Bitcoin in the first place. On the other hand, there is also no rule that says that Bitcoin can't serve as the value basis for some other derivative that ends up being the actual direct instrument of trade in this scenario. |
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