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Posted: 6/10/2024 10:39:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler: Editorializing article titles is a bannable offense on a whole lot of forums, and for good reason. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler: Originally Posted By Harmonic_Distortion: its not exactly stranded according to that article. Editorializing article titles is a bannable offense on a whole lot of forums, and for good reason. Editorializing is a nice description for trolling with spam and click bait. It's a clear CoC violation here, too. |
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:24:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: That shot has already been fired. https://payloadspace.com/nasa-stuck-in-the-middle-of-starliner-contractors-valve-fight/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Imzadi: Originally Posted By racer765: sounds like yet another finger pointing exercise - just waiting for boing to start publicly blaming the helium plumbing supplier or the valve supplier. That shot has already been fired. https://payloadspace.com/nasa-stuck-in-the-middle-of-starliner-contractors-valve-fight/ haha they fucking called out Aeroshit Rocketfine and now look what the fuck happened...fucking shit show anytime govt and their shitty contractors touch somthing. tHeReS No wAy a pRiVaTe cOmPaNy cAn mAkE RoCkEtS ItS ToO ExPeNsIvE AnD ThE GoVeRmEnT Is tHe oNlY OnE WiTh tHe mOnEy tO SpEnD DoInG SpAcE StUfF. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2024 11:57:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Moar duct tape...
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Posted: 6/11/2024 8:55:07 AM EDT
[#4]
I have no doubt the scrubliner is broken. The He leaks are a big deal because the gas pressurizes the hypergolic RCS. Without the He they can’t fire the thrusters to steer or de-orbit.
The “extra time” is off nominal for ANY space mission. |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 11:14:35 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: I have no doubt the scrubliner is broken. The He leaks are a big deal because the gas pressurizes the hypergolic RCS. Without the He they can’t fire the thrusters to steer or de-orbit. The “extra time” is off nominal for ANY space mission. There are 2 missions going on here that have to mesh. One is ISS scheduled operations and the second is the Starliner flight. Starliner got there late and the ISS schedule that has been laid out out for a long time is taking priority. There's way too much involved with spacewalks and ship undockings with respect to station preops and ground console support for the two to happen at the same time. That is what the article in OPs lame title thread is about. In the other thread there is a lot of information about the leak in the videos. I could be wrong but I haven't seen anything released about the helium leak being from tank accumulator pressure helium. Is that true and I missed it? My understanding is it is from the pneumatics/control which aren't sourced from tank accumulator pressure and the location of the leaks are at the thruster manifolds which they have been isolating when not in use. |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 2:00:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JamPo]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: First 2 Starliner flights were unmanned so that shouldn't be a problem. Just detach from ISS then come back to Earth if nothing else goes wrong. Crew can come back on a Soyuz or Dragon once they have been provided with proper suits. If it detached and something else went very wrong, having an uncontrollable Starliner just orbiting up there would be pretty bad though. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By JamPo: Can the starliner be moved remotely to allow another craft to land or is it necessary to have crew aboard? First 2 Starliner flights were unmanned so that shouldn't be a problem. Just detach from ISS then come back to Earth if nothing else goes wrong. Crew can come back on a Soyuz or Dragon once they have been provided with proper suits. If it detached and something else went very wrong, having an uncontrollable Starliner just orbiting up there would be pretty bad though. Sounds like a perfect training opportunity for the space force.. 
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/11/2024 2:15:34 PM EDT
[#7]
If the company building space ships kills tow whistleblowers in less than three months, chances are you don’t want to fly on their space craft.
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Posted: 6/11/2024 2:20:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rb889: If the company building space ships kills tow whistleblowers in less than three months, chances are you don’t want to fly on their space craft. If she wants to have any hope of being the first woman on the moon, Suni doesn't dare refuse to come home on the Starliner. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 6/11/2024 3:41:11 PM EDT
[#9]
They should just be thankful the door didn't blow off, or the computer didn't nose dive them into the ground when it took off....
They are doing far better than several other Boeing products at this point... |
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Posted: 6/11/2024 3:43:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VACaver: If she wants to have any hope of being the first woman on the moon, Suni doesn't dare refuse to come home on the Starliner. She will be too old for the mission. That shit isn't happening for at least 15 years at best. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/11/2024 3:47:32 PM EDT
[#11]
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VUT
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Posted: 6/16/2024 2:52:56 PM EDT
[#12]
https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/06/14/nasa-boeing-set-new-undocking-landing-date-for-starliner-spacecraft/
The reason for the extended stay is in part due to a need to gather more information about the Starliner capsule with the benefit of having an astronaut crew assigned to study aspects of the spacecraft with additional detail. “The crew can do more detailed testing into the various aspects of the spacecraft hardware with the additional time in orbit. It’s an opportunity that is important because the spacecraft is new and this is the first time carrying a crew that can perform this testing on-orbit,” a NASA spokesperson told Spaceflight Now. “Even though an effort is repeated, the additional work gives them a chance to refine what they saw the first time and pass more knowledge to the crews of Starliner missions to come.” Some of the work that will be done in the next several days will also be to better understand some of the anomalies that Starliner experienced during its journey to the orbiting outpost and while docked. 
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Posted: 6/16/2024 2:58:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By greyninja: https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/06/14/nasa-boeing-set-new-undocking-landing-date-for-starliner-spacecraft/ The reason for the extended stay is in part due to a need to gather more information about the Starliner capsule with the benefit of having an astronaut crew assigned to study aspects of the spacecraft with additional detail. “The crew can do more detailed testing into the various aspects of the spacecraft hardware with the additional time in orbit. It’s an opportunity that is important because the spacecraft is new and this is the first time carrying a crew that can perform this testing on-orbit,” a NASA spokesperson told Spaceflight Now. “Even though an effort is repeated, the additional work gives them a chance to refine what they saw the first time and pass more knowledge to the crews of Starliner missions to come.” Some of the work that will be done in the next several days will also be to better understand some of the anomalies that Starliner experienced during its journey to the orbiting outpost and while docked. Translation Shit is broke. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:06:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Boeing started their DEI initiative big time when Obama was President. We are just now seeing the consequences of it.
I wouldn't get into any Boeing aircraft today. It may not have been built by the DEI hires but spare parts are. |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:22:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PCB66: Boeing started their DEI initiative big time when Obama was President. We are just now seeing the consequences of it. I wouldn't get into any Boeing aircraft today. It may not have been built by the DEI hires but spare parts are. Boeing doesn’t do the parts. In fact most of aircraft manufacturers are like AR15 home builders. They assemble parts other than the airframe itself. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2024 3:30:25 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 6/16/2024 4:05:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harmonic_Distortion: its not exactly stranded according to that article. Nor does that article say exactly what the problem is. |
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VUT
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:09:29 PM EDT
[#18]
"The helium leak on the launch pad was not an immediate safety issue, but in investigating it further, NASA and Boeing uncovered a design vulnerability in the RCS system that could affect Starliner's reentry. Agency officials subsequently certified a new reentry mode after testing the idea on the ground in simulations with the CFT crew, veteran NASA astronauts Barry Wilmore and Suni Williams, both of whom are former U.S. Navy test pilots." Sounds like they were stranded for a bit if they couldn't safely reentry. Hopefully the new 'reentry mode' works...https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-earth-return-delay-june-26-thruster-issues |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:34:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale
a tale of a fateful trip, that started from this tropic port, aboard this tiny ship. |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:35:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RattleCanAR]
[#20]
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USA
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:39:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By greyninja: Sounds like they were stranded for a bit if they couldn't safely reentry. Hopefully the new 'reentry mode' works...https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-earth-return-delay-june-26-thruster-issues Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By greyninja: "The helium leak on the launch pad was not an immediate safety issue, but in investigating it further, NASA and Boeing uncovered a design vulnerability in the RCS system that could affect Starliner's reentry. Agency officials subsequently certified a new reentry mode after testing the idea on the ground in simulations with the CFT crew, veteran NASA astronauts Barry Wilmore and Suni Williams, both of whom are former U.S. Navy test pilots." Sounds like they were stranded for a bit if they couldn't safely reentry. Hopefully the new 'reentry mode' works...https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-earth-return-delay-june-26-thruster-issues Can't we just use condemned prisoners or monkeys or something for the first tests? We used monkeys back in the Apollo days. . . . |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:42:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Jettison that POS Boeing abomination unstaffed and let it burn up.
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:46:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler: If you are stuck in traffic are you stranded, or delayed? Your thread title sucks and you know it. If you are stuck on Gilligan's Island with Mary Ann and Ginger are you stranded or lucky? |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2024 12:55:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Maybe they could beg the russkies for a ride home.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2024 1:17:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ozarker: Maybe they could beg the russkies for a ride home. Wont that cause some heads to explode! Save us pooter save us! lol |
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Posted: 6/19/2024 1:43:10 PM EDT
[#26]
They will end up loading that heap with trash and baggies of the astronauts poop and let it burn up for reentry.
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VUT
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Posted: 6/20/2024 4:44:57 PM EDT
[#27]
 Boeing Starliner: Two astronauts wait to come home amid spacecraft issues CNN has finally picked up this thread.
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VUT
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Posted: 6/28/2024 3:40:54 PM EDT
[#28]
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/28/boeing-nasa-delays-starliner-further.html
...they need to test the thrusters on the ground to figure out how to get the astronauts back safely...  NASA and Boeing are further extending the first Starliner crewed flight but are not yet setting a new target date for returning the capsule to Earth, the organizations announced on Friday. Boeing’s Starliner capsule “Calypso” will stay at the International Space Station into next month while the company and NASA conduct new testing back on the ground. Boeing’s crew flight test represents the first time Starliner is carrying people, flying NASA astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams. Officials say the Starliner team is starting a test campaign of the spacecraft’s thruster technology at White Sands, New Mexico – testing that will be completed before Starliner returns to Earth. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 3:48:31 PM EDT
[#29]
“Scheduling issues”…
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CO, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2024 3:50:59 PM EDT
[#30]
How long before they die?
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Posted: 6/28/2024 3:57:16 PM EDT
[#31]
I wonder if they're afraid they might lose control and risk hitting the station with it if they undock.
My guess? Another few weeks of testing will yield the same answer. Maybe. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:03:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: I wonder if they're afraid they might lose control and risk hitting the station with it if they undock. My guess? Another few weeks of testing will yield the same answer. Maybe. I think that is exactly the issue, the damn thing is stuck and they can't let it loose because it will endanger the ISS. Not only can't they get the folks home they can't even risk having it undock. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:10:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stevelish: How long before they die? |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:10:48 PM EDT
[#34]
I bet it is taking this long to wordsmith a letter to Elon definitely not asking for help.
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:17:00 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kashtin: If you are stuck on Gilligan's Island with Mary Ann and Ginger are you stranded or lucky? Sunita is not MaryAnn.  |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:19:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: I think that is exactly the issue, the damn thing is stuck and they can't let it loose because it will endanger the ISS. Not only can't they get the folks home they can't even risk having it undock. Not even a hindsight thing, either. Plenty of people foresaw this as a distinct risk. Both before launch and before docking when they were wringing their hands deciding if they wanted to dock or rtb.  I really would love to know who pushed so hard to keep rolling the dice. NASA or Boeing? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:28:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Totally fitting for Boeing. This situation hasn't surprised me in the least bit.
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:35:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: I think that is exactly the issue, the damn thing is stuck and they can't let it loose because it will endanger the ISS. Not only can't they get the folks home they can't even risk having it undock. Do they still have that fancy arm on the ISS? Use that and launch the hunk of crap away from the station and let it burn up. The lightshow is about the only thing that capsule is good for at this point. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:39:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Extrabonez: Do they still have that fancy arm on the ISS? Use that and launch the hunk of crap away from the station and let it burn up. The lightshow is about the only thing that capsule is good for at this point. The Canadarm is still up there. Probably shouldn't be necessary for this. If it is they should huck it at Boeing Corporate Headquarters with a note inside. "Here's your garbage back!" |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:40:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By greyninja: Boeing’s Starliner capsule “Calypso” will stay at the International Space Station into next month while the company and NASA conduct new testing back on the ground. Officials say the Starliner team is starting a test campaign of the spacecraft’s thruster technology at White Sands, New Mexico – testing that will be completed before Starliner returns to Earth. The statement above is interesting because White Sands has an altitude chamber that you can fire rocket engines in at near orbital pressures. The engines themselves have flown before on unmanned flights with no issues - if we assume the engine design is sound, then they are investigating some sort of abnormal scenario. Rampant speculation on my part, but if the helium leak was so bad that they lost significant amounts of helium then they might be worried about having enough pressure to reliably operate the engines. There is pressure drop as the helium and fuels flow through the plumbing when the engines are running. The engines run at 25bar of chamber pressure so you need more than 25bar of pressure in the fuel tanks to force the fuel into the engines. But how much more? I wonder if they ever probed the limits of just how little hydrogen pressure is needed to reliably pump fuel at the required rates into the engines. You might need 26 bar, 30 bar or 100bar in the fuel tanks to get adequate fuel flow rates. If the fuel pressure at the engine injectors is not high enough the engine will flame out and/or generate less thrust - unreliable/unpredictable thrust is an obvious safety problem. The engines could also run at an incorrect fuel/oxidizer ratio which could generate lower thrust than normal and therefore require more fuel/helium than planned. Either situation would explain the thruster problem that delayed docking, why they are doing ground tests of the engines, and the indefinite delay for the return trip. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:45:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Thankfully my employer has never put me in this situation
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2024 4:47:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Gonna be a helluva parking ticket
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Posted: 6/28/2024 5:08:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Extrabonez: Do they still have that fancy arm on the ISS? Use that and launch the hunk of crap away from the station and let it burn up. The lightshow is about the only thing that capsule is good for at this point. Ya just can't yeet that bitch. The damn thing could hit the ISS as the orbits cross back and forth. It has to carefully back away, lower the orbit and then conduct the reentry burns. There is a huge zone around the ISS that all craft much execute actions perfectly before they are allowed within it and they have to be functioning perfectly to be released. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 5:10:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morgan321: The statement above is interesting because White Sands has an altitude chamber that you can fire rocket engines in at near orbital pressures. The engines themselves have flown before on unmanned flights with no issues - if we assume the engine design is sound, then they are investigating some sort of abnormal scenario. Rampant speculation on my part, but if the helium leak was so bad that they lost significant amounts of helium then they might be worried about having enough pressure to reliably operate the engines. There is pressure drop as the helium and fuels flow through the plumbing when the engines are running. The engines run at 25bar of chamber pressure so you need more than 25bar of pressure in the fuel tanks to force the fuel into the engines. But how much more? I wonder if they ever probed the limits of just how little hydrogen pressure is needed to reliably pump fuel at the required rates into the engines. You might need 26 bar, 30 bar or 100bar in the fuel tanks to get adequate fuel flow rates. If the fuel pressure at the engine injectors is not high enough the engine will flame out and/or generate less thrust - unreliable/unpredictable thrust is an obvious safety problem. The engines could also run at an incorrect fuel/oxidizer ratio which could generate lower thrust than normal and therefore require more fuel/helium than planned. Either situation would explain the thruster problem that delayed docking, why they are doing ground tests of the engines, and the indefinite delay for the return trip. they are hypergolic, no fuel mix. Hydrazine is to messy stuff. |
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Posted: 6/28/2024 5:32:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: they are hypergolic, no fuel mix. Hydrazine is to messy stuff. Hypergolic is two chemicals - a fuel and an oxidizer. They spontaneously ignite on a catalyst and require no ignition system. Hydrazine and other such fuels are often used on earth by reacting them with ambient air. On a spacecraft you have to carry your oxidizer with you. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 7:46:17 AM EDT
[#46]
BUMP for new Boeing excuses.
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Posted: 7/1/2024 7:51:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Just declare the SS off limits to parking and fine it and allow gypsy towing companies to charge to tow it. Bitch will be gone in 24 hours.
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Posted: 7/1/2024 7:53:59 AM EDT
[#48]
Boeing DEI really paying off again.
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Posted: 7/1/2024 8:24:39 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morgan321: Hypergolic is two chemicals - a fuel and an oxidizer. They spontaneously ignite on a catalyst and require no ignition system. Hydrazine and other such fuels are often used on earth by reacting them with ambient air. On a spacecraft you have to carry your oxidizer with you. I am familiar with the F16 EPU which doesn’t carry an oxidizer. I thought the RCS systems were similar. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 8:33:36 AM EDT
[#50]
Is Boeing the new Biden?
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